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Thread: New member salutations + request for typing

  1. #1
    Creepy-male

    Default New member salutations + request for typing

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    Last edited by male; 05-12-2015 at 06:25 PM.

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    Haikus
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    1st impression from pics, regardless of your suggested types : I donīt really see Fe, but Fi.

  3. #3
    Creepy-theticalanti

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Greetings, I'm new to the forum and to Socionics. After some rumination over the types I feel quite firmly that I am a Ni ego, however I'm not quite sure which type fits best. I'm not an ENFj EIE -- that much is certain and I'm definitely not an Alpha nor a Delta type. Based on descriptions Ni-ILI or Ni-IEI seem to be the best fits.

    As opposed to providing a long overwrought spiel enumerating the whys and why-nots of my potential type, I'd like to hear some first impressions based upon VI and some samples of my overblown art and writing

    Any questions that you would like me to answer in order to solidify an impression into a firm judgement are welcome.

    Cheers,

    - M

    Recent writing samples:

    A pious man once woke, aroused by dawn,
    and preached a holy word to sufferers,
    That: “life is sick and truth is found beyond.”
    That’s what he told himself and preached t’others.

    A Truth that spread a faith of gloom’s fatigue
    Indeed, not finding worldly urges come.
    They seek to quell these surges, seen as plague,
    Instead divine reward: who may succumb.

    This pious man’s spayed truth that lacks in seed.
    Mere strokes of his wilted morning’s glory
    A limp revenge made holy heaven creed,
    fed starved masses: a lie’s well worn story.

    All told this sickly pietous mockery,
    In truth, desire made blind by crockery.

    -------

    While walking aimless through my seashore mind,
    I found a coin called Truth, the will to know.
    Each side in mint were morals grim divine,
    A faith in opposites called: Yes and No.

    With unbiased reason as their prayer,
    This faith was born from judicious prophets.
    They sifted good from evil, truth from err;
    But no more than prejudice made profit.

    We feel on solid grounds that virtue grows,
    At home with truthful, selfless, and pure deeds;
    Yet why not grasp Yes and No unopposed,
    Perhaps on indiff’rent immoral seas?

    “A sin indeed! No moral currency?”
    A faceless coin, tossed with a flippancy.
    Welcome, McBain!

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Very nice poems!

    My first rather strong impression is IEI. And my first impressions are very often right, though, not always.

    I am particularly interested in IEI types because I am often praying that my son marries one someday (he is SLE). (Because I want him to happily experience Duality). You would think I would understand the IEI/INFp type since we share so many MBTI "letters" (INFP/ENFP, but, as you can see in Socionics Model A, there really is a very different outlook/emphasis for those two types.

    But then I just saw this thread: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-IEI-portraits Wow! I never heard that about IEI males, and I don't know any IRL like that, that I can think of. So what do you think? Do you see yourself possibly ever living as any of these worse-case portraits of IEI males??? Or, do you think you might not ever get to that, for some reason (and what reason)? Perhaps a solid moral formation in childhood? That would, I think, relate to what @Pookie implies in #2 of that thread - perhaps you had the benefit of being "forced to develop ethically".

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    Haikus
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    To hone in a bit: Would this impression of Fi reside in the Gamma or Delta quadrants? -- or is more information needed?
    by hunch VI it could be Delta as well. You just donīt strike me as Fe ego.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    i do not see N

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Alright then, what do you see and what don't you see to come to that conclusion?
    first, in socioninics unlike mbti, the poets are not iei, and because you can write one doesn't make you an N type as every type can talk and write. so, that aside, i think you're a S type.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Was I justifying my type suggestions based upon the poetry I posted? Hardly. Please continue...
    ok then are you an extravert or an introvert?

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Was I justifying my type suggestions based upon the poetry I posted? Hardly. Please continue...
    what makes you think youīre Ni ego in the first place? also how come you īre caught between Te and Fe ...what confuses you exactly in your attempt at your self-typing?

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Introvert.
    are you sarcastic to the pint of unknowingly hurting ppl's emotion?

    which introversion do you have....Ni ( the one where you see the activity or event of something unfold in a long run scenario); Si (the one where the sense of an object like chocolate as an example soaks in your mind and it takes an inner world of sensation and dreaming); Fi (feelings about things get in and universes are made from which you come up with systems and judge the external by them); or Ti ( systems of thought are derived and thinking is emphasized on a topic to it's depth where systems are made)

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    I generally know how my sarcasm comes off and what its intended effect is for. The above examples should suffice.



    Like what predominates? Introverted Intuition.
    have you read the bible?

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Good questions, I ask forgiveness for my limited Socionics knowledge in conveying my reasons

    I believe that I am an Ni ego because of the deeply held resonance felt with every Ni-Se description I've ever read -- with Ni, seeing processes unfold over large swathes of time in a sort of alchemical cosmic mental-conceptual flux. My imagination is extremely well developed and it really is the backbone of my thought processes -- I literally travel internal landscapes of thought and feeling. With each insight or knowledge gained this dynamic image deepens in complexity, yet simplifies on the surface in its forms. Now regarding Se, my reasons for say not being a extraverted sensing ego type relates to descriptions given by said types i.e. how attuned and engaged they are to their external world -- sensing the world around them. This is more a question of degree then anything else, however when I am engaged with my senses in a sort "flow" experience descriptions by extraverted sensors resonate a great deal.

    So assuming that I'm not mistaken, even though I perhaps may not have given enough information regarding Ni-Se, I do feel quite firmly in being a Ni ego at the very least. However, INTp sounds way to socially oblivious to me. It is most definitely at the Te-Fi and Fe-Ti divide where things become hazy -- at once I feel quite aware of the impact I have upon my social emotional environment, as well as appear extremely skeptical of the realm of empirical facts in favor of a more internal ordering of thoughts; at other times it sways in the opposite direction and I ignore, especially in my philosophy courses, the internal subjective methods of logic -- in favor of a more grounded understanding of the activity of the world as it is.

    I feel that I tend towards one side and then the other in different contexts. Perhaps this is just a misunderstanding of the definitions of the functions.

    I appreciate the questions -- let me know what you think or if clarification is needed.
    oh man..you're going to get ripped to shreds with this introduction ^^

    I actually DO see you as Intuitive type. But take others oppinion before mine since i'm really not that great at typing.

    Your postingstyle doesn't scream Fe or Fi
    I'd go for NiTe...

    An IEI would paint a "different" landscape about the same stuff you're talking about. There's not too much colour, more or less a sketch of reality. I always envision IEI's to have more dreamy, aquarell mindscapes

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    I have indeed.
    good. Ni being a function of "prophecy", but one that, " synthesizes developments as building blocks leading to something interesting that could happen, tries to envision how and when it could happen. Ni is about development between patterns of events over time. Ni thinks "learning a language is good to reach because of the places it will bring you to." About the outcome, Ni says "that was bound to develop in that success/failure." Ni will absorb information to add them as building blocks to come to some "essence" of the ideas they're developing. Ni takes a bunch of different instances and synthesizes them together to develop them in one direction of potential development."


    now which prophets in the bible do Ni?

    and a scenario....

    you say you're Fe Ni you observe a person's emotions...am I trustworthy?

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain
    at once I feel quite aware of the impact I have upon my social emotional environment, as well as appear extremely skeptical of the realm of empirical facts in favor of a more internal ordering of thoughts; at other times it sways in the opposite direction and I ignore, especially in my philosophy courses, the internal subjective methods of logic -- in favor of a more grounded understanding of the activity of the world as it is.
    Nothing about this says not iei.
    IEI seek to understand, but they still desire some concreteness to that understanding. There is a difference between internal subject methods of logic when it is combined with N vs when it is combined with S. The S helps ground those subjective methods via a more concrete reality. While with N it can just go on and on, even into the bizarre.

    To me, what you described is a conflict between being skeptical of Te, but just as skeptical of alpha's version of Ti.

    And, I notice that when it comes to well read or intelligent IEI, they are often relabeled as being an NT, particularly if they are males. But, in fairness, my prejudices on this might be showing through here. My brother is artistic and a creative writer, with a romantic yet harsher edge to it. (Poe was his favorite poet.) But he also had a strong desire to understand, for example socionics. But it just wasn't grounded enough for his more behaviorist and biologist background. So he would spend much time and effort trying to interpret socionics from that background. Unfortunately, few people understood him and his efforts, and in trying to communicate more clearly he lost his poeticness of writing towards a negative cycle of trying to be more precise. Ultimately he left the forum, and socionics, partly because it just wasn't empirical enough for him.

    Anyways, my point is that what you've written doesn't say not iei. But neither am i trying to place a label on you.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    You don't seem untrustworthy in the sense of whether or not you are a decent person, quite the contrary. I doubt there is an overtly aggressive bone in your body.

    I read the book a few times while in high school. I quite enjoyed the Book of Job, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Solomon and Revelation -- easily my favorite. I'd have to do a more thorough read through regarding your specific typing of prophets as it's been quite some time since I last picked it up.

    So what's your guess on type?
    What do you suppose that a negativist would respond to my question?

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    A negativist? Perhaps like this: "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU FUCKING STALKING MY FEED FOR!!!!!!! I can't find a way not to find you -- but not "you" -- untrustless, yet I can't decide...no...what stupid question...I CAN'T TRUST ANYNONE -- nobody, nothing....ne...verrrrr"

    Assuming you mean the "trust" question -- probably in the way I already stated.

    Also what S type were you leaning towards?
    How were you able to determine this? "You don't seem untrustworthy in the sense of whether or not you are a decent person, quite the contrary. I doubt there is an overtly aggressive bone in your body."

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    In general: intuitive gut feeling.

    In terms of your posited decency: experience with other INFjs; you look like a softy in your avatar; general cues of reserve and politeness; your "like" in sympathy of a previous poster whom I gave a sarcastic remark to (either that or a simple affinity with her or the good-natured yet highly blinkered views she espouses).

    Regarding your lack of overt aggression: the context of Internet anonymity as well as the above make for an easy judgement whether or not you'll be someone to fear and INFjs are generally just decent and that's it -- barring a number of qualifications.
    Without testing me in any way to determine any of my qualities that may not be apparent (as you tend to focus on all apparent qualities). You've determined my character quite accurately. However, this also means you're not a Negativist type. Of the positivists, you are left with Fe ego ESE and Se ego SEE. That which you call "intuition" or "gut feeling" is only coming from real observations and real data and isn't a feeling at all...it's an accumulation of experiences.

    I'm debating which one to confirm and finalize.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    What do you think?

    -Fe = minimization or avoidance of negative emotions, prevention of quarrels, scandals, and other situations causing emotional instability, which is valued as more important than creation of positive emotional effect.

    +Se = durability and resistance. This quadra is well capable of defending itself and its position. For them power is not easy to acquire, as to do this they must resist the volitional Beta quadra. However, once it is seized, they can hold on to it despite all attempts at restoration. Protectiveness, ability to defend themselves against all force, ability to keep that which was acquired - these are the principles that they respect. This quadra can be called the quadra of criticism and reforms. In contrast to the 'fire' Beta quadra, which is oriented primarily politically, this quadra is oriented more socially.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Depends. I would say at the height of health -- as a sort of ideal -- I could imagine being an SEE. However, the brooding byronic loner is really what I know best.
    Being a "loner" or "social" is not an indication of introversion in socionics as functions are related to interaction with the world in different ways. One can be a loner and play video games all day and be either an E or I. One can be I and be very social and E and anti social. Objects of E types don't have to be people, they can be shinny objects like cars or other toys.

    An SEE can have no friends but love trinkets; the same type may have lots of friends and dislike clutter; the same type may have a few friends but love all kinds of bright colored clothes...examples.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    So do you feel me as being a supervisor in your eyes?
    The way my supervision works is that if and only if the SEE is dead set on wanting to be accepted as a certain type and is brought proof that they may not be but that they want to hold a certain social significance anyway, they can go to great lengths to trample me by foot.

    We'll wait and see. Thus far you're sort of "huh, your conclusions are interesting but not enough to change my mind even though I hardly know about socionics and all the other functions or how they relate with society and everyone else."

    This can be interpreted in many ways...

    Once that you may be a Static type in which case your impression of something is made up but isn't capable of being changed easily.
    Two that you're still waiting on more info.
    Other possible scenarios.

    You get my Ne

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    No, I'm pretty open to new points of view. I at least take Se-SEE as a plausible type now and I'd be cool with being that type for sure. I just need more information is all and to rethink some of my previous relationships that I've used in the past to justify my inclinations toward being an Ni-dom. Thanks for your perspective!
    do you have more pictures of you?

    You're welcome

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    No, I'm pretty open to new points of view. I at least take Se-SEE as a plausible type now and I'd be cool with being that type for sure. I just need more information is all and to rethink some of my previous relationships that I've used in the past to justify my inclinations toward being an Ni-dom. Thanks for your perspective!
    donīt have time now for reading all thatīs new in the thread, but I wanted to say that from pics you look a bit like a SEE I knew well. Maybe thatīs what made me go for Fi immediately, without considering the rest.

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    Haikus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    How were you able to determine this? "You don't seem untrustworthy in the sense of whether or not you are a decent person, quite the contrary. I doubt there is an overtly aggressive bone in your body."
    that could signal Se-seeking or Se ego" . will come back to it

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    I will say that my first inclination was to verbally excoriate her -- I thought she was some bible thumper who was trying to get me into a theological "debate"...Then I was like, "nah she's a puddy tat."
    I do think you underestimate Maritsa's potential for violence and or agression. She's well known on the forum which basically means she has to have a certain amount of tooth and claw.

    So, i'm questioning your abilty to acurately judge character, how does that make you feel/what do you think about that? (and please tell me which of the two you chose and why).

    What do you think of passionate and socially unacceptable sex? (@woofwoofl is my anchor to knowing if someone is SEE, or at least if they're awesome SEE's, I call it the woofl-standard which is basically like the attractiveness scale (from one to 10) but than more about character!) ^^

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    @woofwoofl Since Refi's mention didn't work.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Do you mean physical violence? Have you ever been in a fight? I once made a grown man cry once -- and I only threw one punch -- the rest was me berating him for his lack of morals -- he was sobbing like a little girl for 20 minutes. I'm not afraid of anyone -- INFjs are sensitive, but they don't intimidate me. Does she intimidate you?

    Is this some roundabout way of saying you want to have sex with me?
    Yeah, i guess i have been, most of them "not real"" though (m.a. training). I don't really invite agression both by being tall and kinda looming and by usually just touching the line but never crossing it. However, you managed to dodge all questions and instead told me something about yourself which was related but not. Interesting

    Everything on this forum can be, and should be construed as a roundabout (or not so roundabout) way of saying I want sex with you! This forum exists to telegraph my sexuality and it's direction towards you!

    Seriously though, sometimes being scared isn't a fault, being couragious isn't about not being afraid, its about facing your fears /deltaquote

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Do you mean physical violence? Have you ever been in a fight? I once made a grown man cry once -- and I only threw one punch -- the rest was me berating him for his lack of morals -- he was sobbing like a little girl for 20 minutes. I'm not afraid of anyone -- INFjs are sensitive, but they don't intimidate me. Does she intimidate you?

    Is this some roundabout way of saying you want to have sex with me?

    if you were serious about that ... Fi is the grand berating agent in someoneīs make-up. I actually think youīre more likely to be a Gamma SF than a NT. Not sure about IEI , you donīt fit the standards I hold them up to lol. It could be because youīve been encouraged to tone down Fe faced with some gender pressure. Whatīs your Enneagram btw , E4 cause your poetry is your life and soul or smth else.

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    Moderator Reficulris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Well, I was just hoping you would admit that, garsh

    You're looking at the wrong information and not getting what you want -- I gave an answer to all of your questions. Out of experience and on first impression -- Maritsa is not to be feared when it comes to violence and aggression. To clarify, if your first question is solely referring to the case of Maritsa: there is nothing about Maritsa that I fear, perhaps what you fear and I fear are different -- and your second question: I want everybody's sex, including yours pumpkin

    If this doesn't float your boat, let's see: 1) In some cases perhaps I'm a good judge of people, in others not. If the question is a more general one: whether or not you yourself call into question my facility in judging other people's characters doesn't really make much difference to me. 2) passionate and social misfit sex is good, grand, awesome.

    The appropriate response to fear depends upon the context -- fearing people willy nilly is pointless and sometimes leads to prejudice -- that is unless the circumstances call in that moment for you to be fearful for whatever reason or for whoever may be involved, and in many cases facing your fears can be, instead of courageous, reckless. There is a thin line between the two. I fear certain contexts, like Holocausts leading people to do insane murderous shit -- however, I do not fear the people who may be involved in them -- if that distinction makes sense. In the case of fights, fear can create far too much adrenaline -- leading you to do stupid shit and to overexert yourself -- as a martial artist you'd know that it's all about being calm and collected.

    I agree with that Delta quote for the most part, so don't get me wrong.
    yeah, i'm terrified of @Maritsa! If she'd ever pair up with @Saberstorm we'll have one genuine inquisition style purge of all that is wierd, abject or deviant on this forum (which, btw would probably mean 95% of the forum gets purged, thank god we have @hkkmr as moderator ;-) )

    Fear does flood ones system with adraniline, and fight flight or freeze is a stupidedly non-usefull way of dealing with most stressors. That said, I'm fairfull generally mostly of sensible things like jumping out of airplanes and all the other wierd stuff we nowadays do as entertainment!

    I was merely trying to rattle your cages so to say, seeing what's behind that calm and collected writingstyle. Alas, you react as a patient older brother would; slightly amused and a little bit patronizing ;-) Most SEE's do react that way to me, but they communicate a little bit less formulized and exact as you do. Not sure, still leaning LIE or something like that.

    As unfortunately my Martial Arts degrees involve Krav Maga (or 'kill em dead effectively") and Capoeira (or "jump around looking silly", netting me the nickname "el giraffe" because i'm not muscular enough and too tall not to make everything look silly) I still have to find the inner calm you speak of ;-)

    And: Sex Yeah!! Join the "no clothes club"!

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    yeah, i'm terrified of @Maritsa! If she'd ever pair up with @Saberstorm we'll have one genuine inquisition style purge of all that is wierd, abject or deviant on this forum (which, btw would probably mean 95% of the forum gets purged, thank god we have @hkkmr as moderator ;-) )
    wha? who? who needs to be burned...

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    Olduvai's Avatar
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    YOU'RE NOT SEE, DON'T LISTEN TO THESE CLOWNS!

    Intuitive feeler is certain. Leaning toward Beta for you, but Delta is also a possibility.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    wha? who? who needs to be burned...
    lol

    It's "supervision" hoax again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    that could signal Se-seeking or Se ego" . will come back to it
    Se seeking would be more like stating something of a personal nature and inviting an Se type to give them direction...for instance

    "I don't know whether I should go swimming."

    In which case, if there's an Se around they will say something in the nature of "why wouldn't you" or "get up and do it" or "do what feels best to you"

    All of these mean..."find the will within yourself" "learn to understand the will within you" "mobilize for action" Those are Se.

    Compare that to my response

    "I think you should [provided judgement] do something that's healthy for you [from my HA]."

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Sorry, the nudes will have to wait -- rest assured: one day I'll post them.
    Preferably 8x10 glossy, wearing black socks, a pink, feather boa and a smile.

    *hates black socks*


    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    It could be a question of masks, too. Here on the forum I could be perceived as more extroverted than I may be in my daily life. Or I could be projecting a more extroverted image because that's how I learned how to express myself through writing.

    I've gotten the extrovert label recently though, it's just weird is all. All a question of differing definitions too.

    I feel ya... The way you express yourself is similar to the way I express myself. I have a few votes for me being SEI-ish but I have my own type, S-E-X. that stands for...

    Me said: I feel I can be IEI or SEI equally.

    I have created my own type. I am S.E.X.

    Socially - Exploring - Xenomancer

    http://www.occultopedia.com/x/xenomancy.htm

    Ya think it will make the cut?


    @Johannes Bloem

    Back me up, bro!

    Ok, I'm done, let's get serious again.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Okay, so in other words: my Sunday's best. No problem.

    And I don't smile...I snarl:


    Attachment 3055
    GRRR, ARF! One dog, one bone.



     
    Last edited by Aylen; 02-05-2014 at 07:55 AM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    That song wore me out.. *collapses*

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    That's pretty spot on for IEIs -- how bout for Se doms?


    Sensually -- Explosive -- XenaWarriorPrincesses?

    Attachment 3056
    It's your world baby, I just live in it!

    <-- too much coffee.
    Last edited by Aylen; 02-05-2014 at 08:15 AM.

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    ^

    Hate to challenge that chicken to a dance off.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Haikus
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Se seeking would be more like stating something of a personal nature and inviting an Se type to give them direction...for instance

    "I don't know whether I should go swimming."

    In which case, if there's an Se around they will say something in the nature of "why wouldn't you" or "get up and do it" or "do what feels best to you"

    All of these mean..."find the will within yourself" "learn to understand the will within you" "mobilize for action" Those are Se.
    I meant assessment of aggression potential. Se - seeking is very interested in that (attentive to it) and if a person doesnīt display Se, it can seem disappointing, especially in romantically-tinged interactions. I think your picture of Se-seeking is more like a caricature ... after all remember 2 kinds of "victim types" have been spotted , one looks submissive and lost, the other arrogant and challenging, even aggressive . I think people can be quite "sensitive" and fastidious about their dual-seeking function(s) ... itīs like some hidden sensor always on.
    Last edited by Amber; 02-05-2014 at 09:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBain View Post
    Back to seriousness and gorgeosity -- as a xenomancer, what have you divined from this strange encounter so far or is it still cooking?
    The past, a wandering minstrel, has made some sacrifice for something important

    The present. enjoying life and the sensual pleasures, seeking adventure, or at least relief from boredom

    The future, an inspiration to others, by example.

    No you can't have your money back!

    Edit: In my mind I really did see a "wandering minstrel" when I read your first post.

    Oh and you're going to meet your dual, whatever that means, but the spirits (in my head) told me to tell you.
    Last edited by Aylen; 02-05-2014 at 09:51 AM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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