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Thread: xerx's instinct stacking

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    Default xerx's instinct stacking

    i found these definitions and im wondering about their accuracy. i relate the most to sx, but i'm curious whether i've misled myself into believing that. you guys sort of know me by now. i probably don't act in real life like i do on the forum, i'm not really sure.. but whatever, might be interesting to get feedback.


    Quote Originally Posted by sx
    Sexual instinct can be called the instinct of attraction. It’s aggressive, competitive, single-minded, "all-or-nothing". Use of this energy is intensely fiery and affirmative, go-get-it approach, a life-and-death matter e.g. salmon swimming upstream to mate and die. With this instincts you are either turned on or you're not - it is what it is; you cannot fight mother nature. With this instinct one's attention is wholly captivated energetically by someone or something.

    The SX energy is described as "high energy" and is often experienced as "intense", "assertive", "laser-like", "intently focused", "playful yet penetrating" in nature. The feeling of SX-first is sometimes compared to being on a roller-coaster ride even though you aren't on one. This subtype will "sacrifice for the relationship" to insure intensity connection. This intensity does not have to be met by another person—it can be satisfied by a project, hobby, or special interest. Rather than looking inward or to the group to resolve their problems and challenges, these types tend to look to close relations and activities that can guarantee them an experience of liveliness and intensity.

    SX-first people enjoy feeling invigorated. They may fantasize about scenarios that make them feel alive and that are emotionally stimulating. Key words: activation, immersion, charisma, broadcasting displays, fusion, inspiration, volatility.

    Sexual subtypes are not to be confused with having a healthy sex drive or being sexy, which is a common reason for many people misidentifying themselves as SX-primaries. The name of this instinct is misleading as, in the end, all instincts play into sexuality. SP is the body-to-body part - cuddling, sensuality, autonomic regulation. SX is riding the waves of energy, the invisible forces of attraction between the people, but it doesn't need to be actively physical. In a union, all three instincts combine - warmth (self-pres), energy (sexual), affection (social). One can have the sexual instinct operating in a group of friends—being in the heat, stimulated, energized, engaged. In relationships, there is a desire for endless engagement and fascination.

    Quote Originally Posted by sp
    Self-preservation instinct is the first instinct to have evolved. This is an orientation towards survival, health, and comfort. SP drive checks in with the body: "Is this not enough or too much?" and orients by what the body reports on its needs. Of the three instincts, this is the oldest one; it dictates: “I must survive.” Animals are highly attuned to their self-preservation needs. Modern humans, however, are somewhat more distant from basic survival needs. That is, we have more sophistication in the sphere of physical needs and more complex regulation—once survival is taken care of, we aim for comfort and pleasure.

    The SP energy manifests as "conserved", "grounded", "tightly coiled", "planted", "immovable". The energy is usually heavy in its nature, as if the person is carrying some great weight on his or her shoulders and conserving energy for later personal use. This subtype will "sacrifice for self" to insure survival, rather than look to their group or mate to resolve their problems and challenges. Self-preservation types may forgo social standing or intensity of experience for physical comfort, security, and other factors that ensure their own survival. For example, a sp-first person may have "princess and the pea" syndrome, refusing to sleep on most mattresses because they simply don’t feel right. These people "look inward" based upon an inherent recognition that "I'm on my own" and "I have to take care of myself."

    Self-preservation instinct responds to practical concerns of everyday life. SP types express concern centering around issues of security, food and health, employment, sustainability. At times this may make them look like enneagram head types, because they be in habit of planning to predict unforeseen mishaps or possible breaches in their security. In addition, the comfort seeking element to SP types can cause them to appear like gut types because of their desire to avoid too much complication or “fuss”.

    In relationships, sp-first people focus on nesting, building a cozy home with someone, or may fantasize about such scenarios. Key words: self-maintenance, domesticity, practical know-how, finances, work, establishing practical foundation in life, back-up plans, fear of scarcity.

    In neurotic SP types, there is fear of not having enough resources, food, shelter. This fear can distort the natural use of the instinct and turn into eating disorders, compulsive buying, or hoarding. There is a tendency to shore up resources and possibly a strong sense of being frugal or sometimes even downright cheap. This is because resources must be properly maintained to ensure survival for themselves and those within their sphere.
    Quote Originally Posted by so
    Social instinct is not the same as socializing. This instinct is aimed towards species survival as a whole. It acts in species where families and groups exist to protect the vulnerability of mother and child. The social instinct provides a holding environment. It needs group viability for a sense of well-being.

    Emphasis on cooperation, reciprocity, roles aimed at mutual survival. There is a need to be involved and contribute, a desire to be wanted and accepted by the group. It can sense when a behavior is damaging to group survival. It forms a sort of unconscious clusters where mutual support is an issue. This instinct is also attuned to hierarchy and possesses political awareness. It has a good sense and understanding of group boundaries and what groups can accomplish.

    The SO energy is often described as "split energy" experienced as "scattered" and projected outward, appearing personable and cursory in nature. This subtype can "sacrifice for the group" to insure status. These types tend to "look outward," based upon a belief that "my value is dependent upon how I am perceived by the group." The survival strategy is an emphasis on sociability or unsociability. There is a noticeable inclination to categorize oneself in terms of others. The question "who am I?" is defined by "how comfortably and successfully I experience my group". Focus is on the issues dealing with how the person is being perceived by the group.

    Topics SO types might bring up in conversation: cultural and political movements and developments, popularity, popular songs books movies memes, manners, social values, societal standards, rules, guidelines, social power structures (or subversion of the same; keep in mind that there can very well be a counter-culture or counter-group streak in Social firsts, and when the instinct is operating in health, this can be used to counter injustice or other forms of oppression etc. in ways that benefits society at large. A lot of social leaders that strongly and actively countered prevalent institutional discrimination and other oppressive norms were social firsts, Dr. King being a good example. It's about time that the social first=sheep stereotype be discarded), appropriateness/inappropriateness, friendship, family, inclusion/exclusion, fashion, glamor, fame, notoriety, organizations, clubs, group divisions pertaining to nationality religion race, etc., patriotism, civic engagement, influence.
    Last edited by xerx; 02-01-2014 at 07:58 PM.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    You don't have one.

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    you are really hard for me to read. you seem interesting though. the inscrutability could be attributed to self-pres instinct or to intertypes i suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    i found these definitions and im wondering about their accuracy. i relate the most to sx, but i'm curious whether i've misled myself into believing that. you guys sort of know me by now. i probably don't act in real life like i do on the forum, i'm not really sure.. but whatever, might be interesting to get feedback.
    this relates less to you than to a more general observation : real SX first usually don´t need confirmation from others that they´re sx first

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    so-7 is a possibility, some light and scattered presence making it likely that you have social instinct somewhere in the stack

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    so-7 is a possibility, some light and scattered presence making it likely that you have social instinct somewhere in the stack
    I'll take that into consideration. I have pretty wide mood swings, but I'd say my time is predominantly spent in a type of withdrawn reflection, edging into melancholy with a somewhat "musical" mood. I used to like the idea of 7, but now I'm not sure; 7 makes the most sense for me at 20 or less years old.


    so is an interesting suggestion, because that's the type I least considered and seems the most foreign. i have a tendency to avoid the themes described in the above so description.
    Last edited by xerx; 02-02-2014 at 01:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    this relates less to you than to a more general observation : real SX first usually don´t need confirmation from others that they´re sx first
    Would sx first not also investigate every possibility?
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Would sx first not also investigate every possibility?
    SX first may see possibilities but are not concerned with them. It is all about intense connections and as already mentioned not just to people, to everything. To me, investigating, possibilities would be an /so/ thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    SX first may see possibilities but are not concerned with them. It is all about intense connections and as already mentioned not just to people, to everything. To me, investigating, possibilities would be an /so/ thing.
    Can you have an intense connection to seeing possibilities? - as in a detective obsessively sifting through every piece of evidence, or a scientist / philosopher trying to get to the truth by considering it from every angle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Can you have an intense connection to seeing possibilities? - as in a detective obsessively sifting through every piece of evidence, or a scientist / philosopher trying to get to the truth by considering it from every angle.
    I don't see why not, but again the main focus is not on the possibilities or outcomes, just that drive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I don't see why not, but again the main focus is not on the possibilities or outcomes, just that drive.
    Thanks, that is a drive I see in myself. I'd still need to examine it more thoroughly though - both my relationship to the drive, and the truth value of the concept itself.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Sx first, for me, is like riding the waves of a tsunami. If the waves subside I need to regenerate them or I lose interest in what I am doing. I am really self sufficient in that way. I can play nicely all by myself and keep myself riding the wave for long periods of time, especially if it involves writing or music.

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    ^^^the whole life of Sx first is "marked" by their crave for intensity and sometimes all-or-nothing responses to people, hobbies, professional paths etc. They kinda know it in their veins , as it accounts for an energetically defined interaction with the world around them, it can break boundaries and norms, it can even work against the benefits if the self (as in the self that should be carefully preserved and protected) when they have a drive towards or against something. If you ask me , no, I don´t think "investigation of all possible categories" would account for an intense drive, it sounds more like resorting to a rationalization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    ^^^the whole life of Sx first is "marked" by their crave for intensity and sometimes all-or-nothing responses to people, hobbies, professional paths etc. They kinda know it in their veins , as it accounts for an energetically defined interaction with the world around them, it can break boundaries and norms, it can even work against the benefits if the self (as in the self that should be carefully preserved and protected) when they have a drive towards or against something. If you ask me , no, I don´t think "investigation of all possible categories" would account for an intense drive, it sounds more like resorting to a rationalization.
    What types do you consider scientists and philosophers who wrestled with universal problems for their whole lives? - as in single-mindedly turning over every stone and sifting through every contingency and personal doubt to make sure they were right, in some cases facing social ostracism and putting their own survival in jeopardy.

    Does a life-long obsession like the one I described qualify as intense, especially if felt from childhood? What kinds of experiences would qualify iyo?
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    What types do you consider scientists and philosophers who wrestled with universal problems for their whole lives? - as in single-mindedly turning over every stone and sifting through every contingency and personal doubt to make sure they were right, in some cases facing social ostracism and putting their own survival in jeopardy.

    Does a life-long obsession like the one I described qualify as intense, especially if felt from childhood? What kinds of experiences would qualify iyo?
    As a sx 5 I know well what single-minded obsession with some theories or ideas is. What you´re trying to do here is not drowning in Freud´s or Jung´s theories in order to discover some aspect that may have been overlooked or writing a novel or deeply and passionately engaging in scientific experiments, but trying to convince yourself - and maybe others - that you´re Sx first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    As a sx 5 I know well what single-minded obsession with some theories or ideas is. What you´re trying to do here is not drowning in Freud´s or Jung´s theories in order to discover some aspect that may have been overlooked or writing a novel or deeply and passionately engaging in scientific experiments, but trying to convince yourself - and maybe others - that you´re Sx first.
    Can you please answer the question instead of questioning my motivation and changing the subject?

    I don't see how my core personality would change because of two letters in the alphabet. I'm not out to convince anyone of anything; I'm still learning about the enneagram, and my tone so far has been politely inquisitive.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Can you please answer the question instead of questioning my motivation and changing the subject?

    I don't see how my core personality would change because of two letters in the alphabet. I'm not out to convince anyone of anything; I'm still learning about the enneagram, and my tone so far has been politely inquisitive.
    I ´ve already answered your question : are you a philosopher or scientist so as to fit the "Sx" examples you brought in the discussion? Probably not, you´re just bullshitting on a forum, judging by your last reply exclusively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    I ´ve already answered your question : are you a philosopher or scientist so as to fit the "Sx" examples you brought in the discussion? Probably not, you´re just bullshitting on a forum, judging by your last reply exclusively.
    Damn, you've got me figured out.

    Anyway, it seems like you tacitly acknowledged the fact that investigating multiple possibilities could be a manifestation of an SX fixation.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Damn, you've got me figured out.

    Anyway, it almost seems like you tacitly acknowledged the fact that investigating multiple possibilities could be a manifestation of an SX fixation.
    yes, Freud investigated lots of case studies in his work. "Am I sx, so or sp?" doesn´t count to be Sx first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    yes, Freud investigated lots of case studies in his work. "Am I sx, so or sp?" doesn´t count to be Sx first.
    Yeah, it's just a simple question with no relevance to type. You're the one blowing it out of proportion by using it make grandiose declarations about my personality and motivations.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Yeah, it's just a simple question with no relevance to type. You're the one blowing it out of proportion by using it make grandiose declarations about my personality and motivations.
    Your motivations are crystal clear, you´re one of the many Sx wannabes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    Your motivations are crystal clear, you´re one of the many Sx wannabes.
    I'll go hang out with all the SO losers then. Thanks for saving me the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I'll go hang out with all the SO losers then. Thanks for saving me the time.


    *consoles xerx soullessly*

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    When I was 21, a friend introduced me to a new friend. New girl and I went out alone one night. Later when the first friend asked how it went, new girl says, "she's all sex". My friend said, "yeah, she's pretty intense". When my friend told me what she said about me, I was a little hurt. I thought she was calling me a slut. Now I know what she was saying. Girl never went out alone with me again. I overwhelmed her. We were ok when we were alone at my house, but she couldn't take my presence in places where it would expand.

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    Also, being sx/sp, sometimes sx overrides sp, putting me in dangerous situations over the years. I lived in alphabet city for awhile and walked through the park alone many nights, coming home from the clubs. That is another example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    When I was 21, a friend introduced me to a new friend. New girl and I went out alone one night. Later when the first friend asked how it went, new girl says, "she's all sex". My friend said, "yeah, she's pretty intense". When my friend told me what she said about me, I was a little hurt. I thought she was calling me a slut. Now I know what she was saying. Girl never went out alone with me again. I overwhelmed her. We were ok when we were alone at my house, but she couldn't take my presence in places where it would expand.
    I didn't wanna get into this kinda stuff. It's hard not to know. Sx first can make even "boundaries" like partner's friend or brother blur. Whether you do smth about it or not ...is a personal choice, but energetic, organic communication is not mediated by anything.

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    I live with another sx/sp, sometimes it's like clash of the Titans around here. The sp/sx and sp/so, who also live here either clear out or get in between us. I can feel them shaking from across the room. But the other sx/sp and I think it's exciting and they don't get it. I usually get the other sx/sp into sp mode since I have some experience on him. We call it matching energy.

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    I found this sx description at enneagraminstitute.com and I believe it describes me. If SX is some other shit, then I'm probably not SX.


    I relate to the idea of having an intense connection to things of interest. I don't like using the word "intense" because of its nebulousness in this context, but I assume they mean an overriding focus on obtaining full satisfaction from one's experiences. Addiction or obsessiveness might be appropriate terms as well.


    I'm very obsessive about my pet projects, often ending up ignoring everything else to work on them, including eating or the social graces as appropriate. When I work on something, I need to complete it past the point of fruition-- far past that point, and its impossible for me to resist the urge of adding components or improving them in a kind of unstoppable escalation. The idea of self-regulation or twisting myself to fit some mundane standard set by others is annoying.


    I can't stand the drudgery of casual relationships. They need to be passionate. I need to feel a passionate physical bond to my significant other in my bones.


    I'm fascinated by religious fanaticism, even though I'm pretty much an atheist. I empathize with suicide bombers even though -- I want to emphasize this -- I consider their acts beyond repugnant; moreover, I find social activism of an absolutist nature to be a dead end in terms of achieving one's full potential and gaining even stronger experiences, i.e. in being unable to break out of an unhealthy mold.


    Nevertheless, I feel like I understand them and their single-minded devotion, their intensity of drive and belief, and their willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice. I understand the mindset of people who commit heinous acts to take revenge for losing a love one they couldn't bear to live without.


    I'm also intrigued by totalitarianism in all its forms; I can get swept away by its provocative black and white view of the world and the unerring decisiveness with which it imposes its social institutions. The polar opposite of anarchism also has a visceral appeal of sorts, being another extremist ideology.


    ^ While I endorse the above, it describes an ideal of sorts. Obviously, I've had to develop my other fixations to deal with the variety of life's contingencies. Plus, I hope I didn't give the impression of being some Nazi right-wing nut job and/or Islamic fundamentalist. I'm NOT!


    Quote Originally Posted by enneagraminstitute
    Sexual: Many people originally identify themselves as this type, perhaps confusing the idea of a Sexual Instinctual type with being a "sexy" person. Of course, "sexiness" is in the eye of the beholder, and there are plenty of "sexy" people in all three of the Instinctual types. Furthermore, lest one think this type more "glamorous" than the other two, one would do well to remember that the instinct can become distorted in the type, leading to the area of life causing the greatest problems. In healthy to average Sexual types, there is a desire for intensity of experience—not just sexual experience, but having a similar "charge." This intensity could be found in a great conversation or an exciting movie. Much has been said about this type preferring "one-on-one" relationships versus the Social type's preference for "larger groups," but a quick poll of one's acquaintances will reveal that almost all people prefer communicating one on one than in a group. The question is more one of the intensity of contact, and the strength of the desire for intimacy. Sexual types are the "intimacy junkies" of the Instinctual types, often neglecting pressing obligations or even basic "maintenance" if they are swept up in someone or something that has captivated them. This gives a wide-ranging, exploratory approach to life, but also a lack of focus on one's own priorities. In their neurotic forms, this type can manifest with a wandering lack of focus, sexual promiscuity and acting out, or just the opposite, in a fearful, dysfunctional attitude toward sex and intimacy. Sexual types, however, will be intense, even about their avoidances. In a nutshell, Sexual types are focused on having intense, intimate interactions and experiences with others and with the environment to give them a powerful sense of "aliveness."
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    lol totalitarianism wtf. So first.

    you can't do casual, huh

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    lol totalitarianism wtf. So first.

    you can't do casual, huh
    I think at this point you're butt-hurt about losing the earlier conversation, but I'd still like to hear your reasoning for why totalitarianism is SO first.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I think at this point you're butt-hurt about losing the earlier conversation, but I'd still like to hear your reasoning for why totalitarianism is SO first.
    try again

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    I had an obsession with Bin Laden once. I found him fascinating because of his intensity. Not as a sympathizer, just the ability to magnetize.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post

    group sex

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    group sex
    cosmic orgy, baby!

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     







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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I'll take that into consideration. I have pretty wide mood swings, but I'd say my time is predominantly spent in a type of withdrawn reflection, edging into melancholy with a somewhat "musical" mood. I used to like the idea of 7, but now I'm not sure; 7 makes the most sense for me at 20 or less years old.
    Einstein is often typed as so/sp though he was a person who has spent a lot of time in quiet contemplation and has an image of a loner given to melancholy. If anything it is the SX instinct urges people to connect creating a kind of other-dependence. (I once asked an ILE sx/sp why he jumps from one relationship right into another after breaking up, not giving himself any time to recover. He replied that he's afraid of being alone, so strong was the SX grip on him. And alone he never was, always in a relationship with someone.) Self-preservation instinct perhaps has the strongest blocking effect here. Social instinct is intermediate I would say, though this goes against its literal interpretations - SO relates to many but no one in particular. Social firsts can be quite isolated in cases when they don't quite fit in with their social milieu, for reasons ranging from having a personality disorder that hinders their social integration, to having conflicting views and values with their peers, which leads to their social withdrawal and isolation (ex: Nietzsche, sx/so).

    So trying to figure out which instincts you value by how social or withdrawn you are is kind of like trying to determine whether your are socionics introvert or extravert based on how much time you spend socializing.

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Can you have an intense connection to seeing possibilities? - as in a detective obsessively sifting through every piece of evidence, or a scientist / philosopher trying to get to the truth by considering it from every angle.
    Isn't that your socionics type? Wouldn't an ILE have an avid interest in exploring all kinds of options and possibilities? What does sx have to do with this?

    [quote]Intuitive-logical extraverts (ILE) – are born researchers and inventors. They study not only the things that are useful, but also “everything that is interesting”, from the machines and mechanisms theory to butterflies and caterpillars. There is nothing they like better than to read about something mysterious and enigmatic. ... Representatives of this type are capable of studying a great volume of literature on the preferred topic in the shortest possible time, so to speak, to grasp the world and to pave the way for the followers. Their theories and methods are often uncommon which can result in a turn-over in the traditional views. The main ILE’s drawback is their constant strive for defending their ideals ... Their irreconcilability in one’s honour, dignity and freedom infringement often drives them to numerous "duels". Sometimes they fight not their real enemies but wind mills acting only in their imagination."

    ^ That ILE description sounds fiery all in itself lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I'm fascinated by religious fanaticism, even though I'm pretty much an atheist. I empathize with suicide bombers even though -- I want to emphasize this -- I consider their acts beyond repugnant; moreover, I find social activism of an absolutist nature to be a dead end in terms of achieving one's full potential and gaining even stronger experiences, i.e. in being unable to break out of an unhealthy mold.

    Nevertheless, I feel like I understand them and their single-minded devotion, their intensity of drive and belief, and their willingness to make the ultimate sacrifice. I understand the mindset of people who commit heinous acts to take revenge for losing a love one they couldn't bear to live without.

    I'm also intrigued by totalitarianism in all its forms; I can get swept away by its provocative black and white view of the world and the unerring decisiveness with which it imposes its social institutions. The polar opposite of anarchism also has a visceral appeal of sorts, being another extremist ideology.

    ^ While I endorse the above, it describes an ideal of sorts. Obviously, I've had to develop my other fixations to deal with the variety of life's contingencies. Plus, I hope I didn't give the impression of being some Nazi right-wing nut job and/or Islamic fundamentalist. I'm NOT!
    And yet, these are all cultural themes that you listed here: terrorism, religious fanaticism, totalitarianism, etc. Cultural wars, including religious clashes, is primarily the realm of so/sp instinct (link). One famous historical example of this stacking is Hit.ler who with his fanaticism inspired a world war. Social activism is the preferred approach of sp/so stacking, the inverse stacking of the so/sp (you can think of inverse stackings as mutually supervising and correcting each other in socionics sense). This kind of cultural belligerence is the reason that so/sp is placed on the contra-chain, called 'contra' for the reason that all the stackings on this chain have a kind of oppositional, perturbing, subversive movement to them.

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    Thanks silke, that was a well considered post.

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Einstein is often typed as so/sp though he was a person who has spent a lot of time in quiet contemplation and has an image of a loner given to melancholy. If anything it is the SX instinct urges people to connect creating a kind of other-dependence. (I once asked an ILE sx/sp why he jumps from one relationship right into another after breaking up, not giving himself any time to recover. He replied that he's afraid of being alone, so strong was the SX grip on him. And alone he never was, always in a relationship with someone.) Self-preservation instinct perhaps has the strongest blocking effect here. Social instinct is intermediate I would say, though this goes against its literal interpretations - SO relates to many but no one in particular. Social firsts can be quite isolated in cases when they don't quite fit in with their social milieu, for reasons ranging from having a personality disorder that hinders their social integration, to having conflicting views and values with their peers, which leads to their social withdrawal and isolation (ex: Nietzsche, sx/so).

    So trying to figure out which instincts you value by how social or withdrawn you are is kind of like trying to determine whether your are socionics introvert or extravert based on how much time you spend socializing.
    What do you mean by many, but no one in particular?


    Isn't that your socionics type? Wouldn't an ILE have an avid interest in exploring all kinds of options and possibilities? What does sx have to do with this?

    Intuitive-logical extraverts (ILE) – are born researchers and inventors. They study not only the things that are useful, but also “everything that is interesting”, from the machines and mechanisms theory to butterflies and caterpillars. There is nothing they like better than to read about something mysterious and enigmatic. ... Representatives of this type are capable of studying a great volume of literature on the preferred topic in the shortest possible time, so to speak, to grasp the world and to pave the way for the followers. Their theories and methods are often uncommon which can result in a turn-over in the traditional views. The main ILE’s drawback is their constant strive for defending their ideals ... Their irreconcilability in one’s honour, dignity and freedom infringement often drives them to numerous "duels". Sometimes they fight not their real enemies but wind mills acting only in their imagination."
    ^ That ILE description sounds fiery all in itself lol.
    I'm under the impression that the typologies overlap.

    And yet, these are all cultural themes that you listed here: terrorism, religious fanaticism, totalitarianism, etc. Cultural wars, including religious clashes, is primarily the realm of so/sp instinct (link). One famous historical example of this stacking is Hit.ler who with his fanaticism inspired a world war. Social activism is the preferred approach of sp/so stacking, the inverse stacking of the so/sp (you can think of inverse stackings as mutually supervising and correcting each other in socionics sense). This kind of cultural belligerence is the reason that so/sp is placed on the contra-chain, called 'contra' for the reason that all the stackings on this chain have a kind of oppositional, perturbing, subversive movement to them.
    I'm not really into social activism or social causes. Politics, social mobilization etc., is inane and a waste of time, and the most mundane part of government - religious or totalitarian included. I'm just sort of intrigued by the personal dimension of diving "all-in" and the psychological factors involved.

    Anything involving a shared identity with groups of people feels like death. Interesting perspective though.
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    jesus, is this really Ti creative

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I'll go hang out with all the SO losers then. Thanks for saving me the time.
    Look mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    Thanks silke, that was a well considered post.

    What do you mean by many, but no one in particular?
    The way so-lasters try to relate to others is talking about their personal experiences, preferences, their family, relationships, daily matters, etc. This way of relating may seem kind of self-centered, even arrogant, and may be isolationist but it also feels more personal. The way that people who value social instinct relate to others is incorporating socio-cultural topics into their discussion, which is more inclusive, they are bringing up topics that make it easy for others to join a conversation even if they don't know each other very well, not as self-involved, but it also feels more impersonal.

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I'm under the impression that the typologies overlap.
    Which makes it very easy to mis-attribute. For example what you wrote below:

    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I'm not really into social activism or social causes. Politics, social mobilization etc., is inane and a waste of time, and the most mundane part of government - religious or totalitarian included. I'm just sort of intrigued by the personal dimension of diving "all-in" and the psychological factors involved. Anything involving a shared identity with groups of people feels like death. Interesting perspective though.
    ... can be easily attributed to socionics 'democratic' trait. Why do you think this is an example of devalued SO instinct instead of you typing as a democratic type?

    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    jesus, is this really Ti creative
    which part?

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