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Thread: LIE-ESI and ILE-SEI interaction - a question to LIEs and ESIs

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    Default LIE-ESI and ILE-SEI interaction - a question to LIEs and ESIs

    Have you experienced a two duality pairs LIE-ESI and ILE-SEI interaction in a family or a group of friends? What were/would be the dynamics?

    Also, regarding LIE - what would be considered normal Te-revealing behaviour and what would be the signs of an LIE being condescending to other people in LIEs eyes?

    I'm (most likely) an SEI in a duality relationship and seem to be experiencing the presence of an LIE-ESI couple (not entirely sure regarding ESI) and am trying to figure out a peaceful way of coexisting. Is it possible?

    Thank you in advance for your answers. In case there was a similar thread that I hadn't found - I'd be grateful for redirecting me to it.

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    I think a LIE being condescending to someone would be pretty apparent. And it usually has a lot to do with their perception of someone or of an action.

    They're pretty similiar to ILE's just more practical imo and have better judge of character (granted that's my take as a ESI).

    To coexist with this couple should hopefully be easy if they're decent people: be nice?

    Lol sorry, that's kind of crap advice. I get along really well with SEIs and many ILEs superficially; gets slightly umcomfortable when we spend too much time around each other but nothing explosive nor crap has happened around these ppl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I think a LIE being condescending to someone would be pretty apparent. And it usually has a lot to do with their perception of someone or of an action.

    They're pretty similiar to ILE's just more practical imo and have better judge of character (granted that's my take as a ESI).

    To coexist with this couple should hopefully be easy if they're decent people: be nice?

    Lol sorry, that's kind of crap advice. I get along really well with SEIs and many ILEs superficially; gets slightly umcomfortable when we spend too much time around each other but nothing explosive nor crap has happened around these ppl.
    Thank you for answering. Yeah, lol, being nice is kind of granted in the package, was thinking about whether there are any sure-fire subjects to avoid, etc.

    Ummm regarding LIE and being condescending - that's the thing. I know the person quite well and very rarely this person acted towards me in a way I'd call condescending. Protective if anything.
    But that's what I'd call the recent behaviour: condescending+dismissive. Thing is I've recently read quite a bit about how LIEs are misunderstood by others and they find this annoying/bothersome. That's why I'd love to hear LIE saying what behaviour in another LIE they'd consider condescending... cause maybe I'm just misunderstanding sth (I'm kind of hoping I am cause I care about the person in question).
    I hope I managed to convey my main thought in the description above, cause writing it I felt like I'm going in circles...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    Have you experienced a two duality pairs LIE-ESI and ILE-SEI interaction in a family or a group of friends? What were/would be the dynamics?

    Also, regarding LIE - what would be considered normal Te-revealing behaviour and what would be the signs of an LIE being condescending to other people in LIEs eyes?

    I'm (most likely) an SEI in a duality relationship and seem to be experiencing the presence of an LIE-ESI couple (not entirely sure regarding ESI) and am trying to figure out a peaceful way of coexisting. Is it possible?

    Thank you in advance for your answers. In case there was a similar thread that I hadn't found - I'd be grateful for redirecting me to it.
    I think my ILE friend feels judged by Gammas for being her usual loud playful self. Nobody ever says anything, it is totally a vibe that she picks up on. It seems like an SEI might notice the vibe and help the ILE tone it down.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
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    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    Have you experienced a two duality pairs LIE-ESI and ILE-SEI interaction in a family or a group of friends? What were/would be the dynamics?
    I live with an ILE and an SEI. It is generally harmonious for the most part, although there is something of a IP/EJ clash. I made a thread about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    Also, regarding LIE - what would be considered normal Te-revealing behaviour and what would be the signs of an LIE being condescending to other people in LIEs eyes?
    What is 'Te-revealing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    I'm (most likely) an SEI in a duality relationship and seem to be experiencing the presence of an LIE-ESI couple (not entirely sure regarding ESI) and am trying to figure out a peaceful way of coexisting. Is it possible?
    Yes, it's actually not that hard. Just try not to put each other day. You'd likely hang with the ESI more and your boyfriend would likely hang with the LIE more. It works fairly well. Take what blackburry said into account too.

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    I know LIE father and SEI son closely in my family and they get along really well. The only thing the LIE can be slightly critical of and maybe condescending about (not outwardly or overly seriously so , if he doesn't have direct reasons to) is the rather submissive and toned.-down nature of the SEI. He kinda thinks : he's smooth and not always assertive, sure, being polite and nice is fine, I nevertheless hope he has what it takes to get through difficult stuff in life as well if it comes up. When the SEI was younger and he spent too much time listening to music or watching films in front of his pc in his room, the LIE would push him half-jokingly to go out and meet friends, life is not only between 4 walls etc. Otherwise the SEI (sp/sx) has been very diligent as a student and now tight and careful with his money and that's smth the LIE admires. It assures him the SEI's future is not threatened. They cohabited for about 25 years and it 's always looked like a harmonious relationship, in spite of what Socionics says about Conflict. Maybe it matters that they're father and son and there's no romantic business involved, dunno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    Maybe it matters that they're father and son and there's no romantic business involved, dunno.
    No, it's because the SEI sounds like a typical ESI-Fi, imho. Diligent, tight with money, very homely, apparently somewhat scared of the outside world, polite, resistant to outside pressure.

    Anyway, to the OP: I don't see an enormous difference between me and the ILEs I know. With my IP friends, the only trouble I have is planning everyday activities because they change their mind so easily...that can be annoying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, it's because the SEI sounds like a typical ESI-Fi, imho. Diligent, tight with money, very homely, apparently somewhat scared of the outside world, polite, resistant to outside pressure.
    With my IP friends, the only trouble I have is planning everyday activities because they change their mind so easily...that can be annoying.
    well it's very likely that the LIE actually raised him to be more like his dual . He's less assertive (or aggressive) than Se valuers, but yes, he's diligent and doesn't give up on stuff he started, seems to keep his word, stuff like that. What he has of IP temperament is that he's adaptive and non-intrusive and doesn't expect / demand that people or the world should conform to some internal standards. Next to other IPs I know, he's really not very changeable.

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    Okay, if you want to think about it that way, be my guest.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Okay, if you want to think about it that way, be my guest.
    you, on the other hand, seem to prefer to think I've mistyped my own brother. I wonder why. Te getting critical while ignoring some Ni context?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Okay, if you want to think about it that way, be my guest.
    and btw now don't come with spontaneous arguments like "oh, it's different from what the book says cause it's bro and sister" ...as you did when I was talking about my ESI mom.

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    You wonder why? Re-read you own post. You describe a completely harmonious conflict relationship. It's somewhat normal that someone will come to the conclusion that...it may not be a conflict relationship.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You wonder why? Re-read you own post. You describe a completely harmonious conflict relationship. It's somewhat normal that someone will come to the conclusion that...it may not be a conflict relationship.
    ^^^^ Nice to see you take a collective identity . Differences from "the norm" you're talking about might actually be explained via DCHN, if you think harder about it. A nomalizing SEI could have features of ESI and and at the same time have slightly different intertype relationships.

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    As I said: if you want to think about it that way, be my guest. You have more information on him, sure. I'm just going by what you described in that specific post above.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    WTF. I have no reason to doubt my brotherīs type. If I had been unsure about his type, I would have mentioned it : idiots, donīt take what I describe as fact, cause Iīm not so sure. But here comes FGD to tell me the relationship between my father and my brother is not as Socionics says it should be as per "intertype".

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    why do you care, ashsun? he's not trying to convince you or anybody else. dunno why you can't drop it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    why do you care, ashsun? he's not trying to convince you or anybody else. dunno why you can't drop it.
    oh heīs just trolling by default. Or just freely expressing his assumptions as in a diary. Good then. Very kind of you to try to clarify btw.

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    I'm not trolling at all, just stating my opinion (based only on what you have written - I already said that you may have a much richer knowledge).
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    No, it's because the SEI sounds like a typical ESI-Fi, imho. Diligent, tight with money, very homely, apparently somewhat scared of the outside world, polite, resistant to outside pressure.
    It is very much descriptive of an SEI-Si girl that I'm acquainted with. That's the reason that SEI and ESI are called quasi-identicals because on surface the may be characterized very similarly. Both of them are duals to to positivist, intuitive extraverted logical types who are squanderous in their interests and associations. Both of them have to balance these traits out with their own introversion, frugality, negativism, physical energy and diligence. There is not enough info to decide either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You wonder why? Re-read you own post. You describe a completely harmonious conflict relationship. It's somewhat normal that someone will come to the conclusion that...it may not be a conflict relationship.
    It's rare, but it does occur. Besides socionics there are many other typologies that have 'dualities' and various kinds of favorable arrangements of their own. Even if these guys are in conflict relationships in socionics it is possible that they are complimentary to one in other ways, which would lead to a more tolerant and congenial relationship than would be predicated if one goes solely by socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    There is not enough info to decide either way.
    My reasoning was not exclusively based on the description, but on the supposed "harmonious relationship" between her (him?) and a LIE father. Indeed if AshSun had said that the father was ILE, there would have been no reason to question the typing.

    Even if these guys are in conflict relationships in socionics it is possible that they are complimentary to one in other ways, which would lead to a more tolerant and congenial relationship than would be predicated if one goes solely by socionics.
    Well, with this reasoning you can justify any kind of deviation from "predicted" behavior, so socionics does indeed become useless...that's why I'm not convinced by arguments such as "it's DNCH normalizing, thus more j-like". Maybe they're correct, but then the whole ordeal quickly becomes unsuable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    My reasoning was not exclusively based on the description, but on the supposed "harmonious relationship" between her (him?) and a LIE father. Indeed if AshSun had said that the father was ILE, there would have been no reason to question the typing.
    Well, with this reasoning you can justify any kind of deviation from "predicted" behavior, so socionics does indeed become useless...
    Well you havenīt paid attention to their gender , but youīre stuck on proving my typing wrong in order to assure the validity of every claim and word of Socionics and to keep the boxes clean, so to speak.

    FYI : My brother is SEI-Si E1w9 sp/sx, my father is LIE - Ni E8w9 sp/so. You can consider other aspects of their personality that may have worked in favor of a harmonious relationship. If "kinship" well-regulated by ESI mother and performed by LIE father is not enough.
    `*if I posted a photo of him, youīd see thereīs no way he could be confused with ESI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    My reasoning was not exclusively based on the description, but on the supposed "harmonious relationship" between her (him?) and a LIE father. Indeed if AshSun had said that the father was ILE, there would have been no reason to question the typing.
    Such reasoning is acceptable if you base it solely socionics and ignore every thing else that goes on in relationships. My objection to it was based on real life observation that there do indeed exist a small percentage of what is called "conflict relations" in socionics that don't necessarily lead to conflict but a kind of mutual admiration from a distance i.e. there do exist parameters of attraction/repulsion outside of socionics that have their own sway.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, with this reasoning you can justify any kind of deviation from "predicted" behavior, so socionics does indeed become useless....
    That's a rather all-or-nothing way to think about it. Socionics doesn't become "useless". It becomes one of the contributing factors to what goes on in relationships instead of The ONE AND ONLY ONE capable of encompassing and predicting everything that could possibly happen.

    edit: I've noticed you edited your response but the same point still stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    Well you havenīt paid attention to their gender , but youīre stuck on proving my typing wrong in order
    I can assure you that I am not "trying to prove you wrong", otherwise I wouldn't have said that you have more information than me.

    FYI : My brother is SEI-Si E1w9 sp/sx, my father is LIE - Ni E8w9 sp/so. You can consider other aspects of their personality that may have worked in favor of a harmonious relationship. If "kinship" well-regulated by ESI mother and performed by LIE father is not enough.
    Okay, good. You can't however blame me for doubting a conflict relationship when you describe a long-term harmonious relationship between two people.

    My objection to it was based on real life observation that there do indeed exist a small percentage of what is called "conflict relations" in socionics that don't necessarily lead to conflict but a kind of mutual admiration from a distance i.e. there do exist parameters of attraction/repulsion outside of socionics that have their own sway.
    Well, in this case, they're father and son, so I supposed that the relationship was not "admiration from a distance" but necessarily had to be rather close. Maybe not, I don't personally know anyone involved. Perhaps they barely speak to each other.
    Last edited by FDG; 01-31-2014 at 03:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I can assure you that I am not "trying to prove you wrong", otherwise I wouldn't have said that you have more information than me.
    Okay, good. You can't however blame me for doubting a conflict relationship when you describe a long-term harmonious relationship between two people.
    Well, in this case, they're father and son, so I supposed that the relationship was not "admiration from a distance" but necessarily had to be rather close. Maybe not, I don't personally know anyone involved. Perhaps they barely speak to each other.
    Itīs very domestic and peaceful. They donīt break their asses discussing philosophy , they donīt communicate "soul to soul" or stuff. Itīs supportive. LIE father helps with money if SEI has to spend a more over-the-top sum on something, they visit each other on weekends, as "normal" relatives of this kind do. They donīt fight, theyīre usually respectful to each other. LIE doesnīt get into many Te arguments where SEI becomes annoyed cause of polr hit. Maybe if LIE were teacher and SEI in school it would be different. And Iīm sure if they had had to fuck , they would have bumped into Caregiver-Pseudo-aggressor tensions.

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    FDG is right. If you get along with your conflictors, they're not your conflictors. It would the end of the world, the real world I live in if it was the case socionics wise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    I live with an ILE and an SEI. It is generally harmonious for the most part, although there is something of a IP/EJ clash. I made a thread about it.
    Bro, SEI and LIE are conflictors. There would be a lot more than an "IP/EJ" clash (whatever the fuck that even refers to) if the two lived together.

    Here's Jim Schwartz (SEI) getting pissed at Jim Harbaugh (LIE or LSE) for "shaking hands too hard":

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    wow, this thread took an interesting turn. Thank you for all your answers, I think I know what I wanted to figure out by now.

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    Did we just see a conflictors debate about conflictors?

    Ashsun, what is your type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Did we just see a conflictors debate about conflictors?

    Ashsun, what is your type?
    lol

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    I was raised by LII-ESI superego parents. Quite honestly I would much rather have been raised by an ILI-SEE pair despite the hypothetical conflictor parent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenneth Chesney View Post
    Bro, SEI and LIE are conflictors. There would be a lot more than an "IP/EJ" clash (whatever the fuck that even refers to) if the two lived together.
    Update on this: SEI managed to get everyone offside massively and she's been booted out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narc View Post
    Update on this: SEI managed to get everyone offside massively and she's been booted out.
    She's already gone?

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    She's dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    She's already gone?
    She got her two weeks notice last Saturday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aisa View Post
    Have you experienced a two duality pairs LIE-ESI and ILE-SEI interaction in a family or a group of friends? What were/would be the dynamics?

    Also, regarding LIE - what would be considered normal Te-revealing behaviour and what would be the signs of an LIE being condescending to other people in LIEs eyes?

    I'm (most likely) an SEI in a duality relationship and seem to be experiencing the presence of an LIE-ESI couple (not entirely sure regarding ESI) and am trying to figure out a peaceful way of coexisting. Is it possible?

    Thank you in advance for your answers. In case there was a similar thread that I hadn't found - I'd be grateful for redirecting me to it.
    if he is being dismissive its because you're getting on his nerves. Your using his polrfuncion. Stop using it or reduce the psycological distance.

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