How to get an LSI/ISTj to pay attention to his appearance

[bolong]

OK so I generally think my LSI is fine as shit. He's one of those people who looks better the longer he hasn't showered or brushed his hair. But then there is the issue of odor. Also, when the beard and hair get too unruly and I insist he just trims it a little, he goes somewhere and gets everything hacked off haphazardly, and I'm alarmed by his appearance after.


Is there no middle ground? And there's no point telling me I'm being superficial.. I AM being superficial, I want him to look good bc he IS good looking, but anyone will look stupid with a stupid haircut.

[lemontrees]

I always thought that most men were pretty stupid about this stuff, and almost all of them look really alarming right after they cut their hair. There's a two week "growing in" period.

As a woman, I've long given up on trying to make fine as shit men maintain their fineness. ;___;

^never has useful advice

[Amber]

not a narcissistic rant : Most LSI's I've come across were careful to their appearance. And fairly high-standard about others in this respect -> people they were dating. For the last one I dated shower before sex was a must. The second last one was a bit more "natural" ...and preferred the smell of sex to last. But that's about it.

[Aivonaima]

Is this an LXI problem in general? An LII I'm close with is exactly the same. He has two looks... Jesus/Rasputin hybrid with ungroomed full beard and big ungroomed long hair or a bluntly shaven buddhist monk look. Lol. He also gets pissed when people he's close to mention these things to him.

I don't really know what it's all about. A general lack of interest for social acceptance? Ti doms, man. Certainly trying to convince him of the social effect won't take you very far. And let's face it, there are no proper logical reasons for taking care of your looks. Don't get me wrong – I'm really shallow too – but that's a cold, hard fact.

[Amber]

are you sure your dudes are not Se POLR

[kadda1212]

Buy a hair trimmer and cut his hair yourself.

[Amber]

most IEIs I've seen look like someone shoved their heads in the washing machine because of poor Se. Only Se vulnerable looks worse. And Si dominant users sometimes because their "looking good" standards are dictated by dunno what fucking sensing organs existing only in their heads.

[kadda1212]

most IEIs I've seen look like someone shoved their heads in the washing machine because of poor Se. Only Se vulnerable looks worse. And Si dominant users sometimes because their "looking good" standards are dictated by dunno what fucking sensing organs existing only in their heads.

Are you refering to male IEIs? Or do you think female IEIs also have weird standard when it comes to appearance?

[Amber]

I don't make the distinction male - female when when it comes to impeccable appearance or awareness of one's body , looks , of what makes one hot or of how you can become hotter. IEI males look way too EMO from what I've seen online or in real life. Se also brings proactive, raw, masculine energy and knowledge of how to make an impact. The majority of Se users I know are pretty macho. IEI females ... I guess they can be cute or adorably dreamy looking even when they have poor Se. But those who are more in touch with their Se by way of family or dualization (dating or something else , also heard of self-dualization) are more attractive.

[DaftPunk]

just tell him -> eaz mode -> problem solved

[kadda1212]

I don't make the distinction male - female when when it comes to impeccable appearance or awareness of one's body , looks , of what makes one hot or of how you can become hotter. IEI males look way too EMO from what I've seen online or in real life. Se also brings proactive, raw, masculine energy and knowledge of how to make an impact. The majority of Se users I know are pretty macho. IEI females ... I guess they can be cute or adorably dreamy looking even when they have poor Se. But those who are more in touch with their Se by way of family or dualization (dating or something else , also heard of self-dualization) are more attractive.

There was a time when I didn't care about my looks at all. In th recent years I started to care more about it. I even started to watch make up tutorials. O_o

[bolong]

I always thought that most men were pretty stupid about this stuff, and almost all of them look really alarming right after they cut their hair. There's a two week "growing in" period.

As a woman, I've long given up on trying to make fine as shit men maintain their fineness. ;___;

^never has useful advice

Yeah, but it's not all men across the board. The most consistently well groomed/ well dressed men are EIE, SEI, ESE... ILE tries to look good, imo, except they have no idea which clothes are flattering on them, though at least they are receptive to advice in this area.

[bolong]

Is this an LXI problem in general? An LII I'm close with is exactly the same. He has two looks... Jesus/Rasputin hybrid with ungroomed full beard and big ungroomed long hair or a bluntly shaven buddhist monk look. Lol. He also gets pissed when people he's close to mention these things to him.

I don't really know what it's all about. A general lack of interest for social acceptance? Ti doms, man. Certainly trying to convince him of the social effect won't take you very far. And let's face it, there are no proper logical reasons for taking care of your looks. Don't get me wrong – I'm really shallow too – but that's a cold, hard fact.

YES. EXACTLY. ughhhh. It doesn't matter if I subtly hint easy things he could do to improve this situation, or if I straight up tell him he looks stupid. His response in both cases is to become stubborn and maybe pick the smelliest shirt he can find just in case he hasn't made his point yet that he doesn't care. Godammit.

[bolong]

just tell him -> eaz mode -> problem solved

Like no one here has tried that... we are not deltas FYI

[bolong]

most IEIs I've seen look like someone shoved their heads in the washing machine because of poor Se. Only Se vulnerable looks worse. And Si dominant users sometimes because their "looking good" standards are dictated by dunno what fucking sensing organs existing only in their heads.

wtf are you even talking about.

I don't make the distinction male - female when when it comes to impeccable appearance or awareness of one's body , looks , of what makes one hot or of how you can become hotter. IEI males look way too EMO from what I've seen online or in real life. Se also brings proactive, raw, masculine energy and knowledge of how to make an impact. The majority of Se users I know are pretty macho. IEI females ... I guess they can be cute or adorably dreamy looking even when they have poor Se. But those who are more in touch with their Se by way of family or dualization (dating or something else , also heard of self-dualization) are more attractive.

I'm not really talking about personality-driven appearance. Yes, I'm aware of the Se raw energy, that's why I fell for him in the first place. Maybe you're young or something, all guys go through a phase where they really care about their looks. Even my LSI really cared in college, and my ILI brother (weak Se) spends more time on his hair than I do, bc he is of that age right now. This is not what they're always like though. Almost every Ti-ego I've come across is stubborn about looking the way they are comfortable with, except that what they're comfortable with is sometimes kind of gross for other people.

[Amber]

wtf are you even talking about.



I'm not really talking about personality-driven appearance. Yes, I'm aware of the Se raw energy, that's why I fell for him in the first place. Maybe you're young or something, all guys go through a phase where they really care about their looks. Even my LSI really cared in college, and my ILI brother (weak Se) spends more time on his hair than I do, bc he is of that age right now. This is not what they're always like though. Almost every Ti-ego I've come across is stubborn about looking the way they are comfortable with, except that what they're comfortable with is sometimes kind of gross for other people.

I could be married with kids, no worries, i was talking about my experience with Beta STs in general, not just 1 person. Let alone my own very self. So age is not an argument. Most ILIs I know are hardly aware they should buy nice (and varied) clothes and go for stylish haircuts. And ENTJs take care of how they look if they're a bit older and their profession requires it. Even Socionics seems to know it's the ESI who's supposed to teach them about fashion and aesthetics and the like. And yes, Ti is stubborn about what they prefer and with Ne prefers lousy stuff. But whatever, if he's one, maybe that LSI just has lousier personal tastes.

[bolong]

I could be married with kids, no worries, i was talking about my experience with Beta STs in general, not just 1 person. Let alone my own very self. So age is not an argument. Most ILIs I know are hardly aware they should buy nice (and varied) clothes and go for stylish haircuts. And ENTJs take care of how they look if they're a bit older and their profession requires it. Even Socionics seems to know it's the ESI who's supposed to teach them about fashion and aesthetics and the like. And yes, Ti is stubborn about what they prefer and with Ne prefers lousy stuff. But whatever, if he's one, maybe that LSI just has lousier personal tastes.

Lol, OK. How about some advice on getting uncooperative LSI to realize it's important to groom his own facial hair (including overgrown nose hair) + maybe consider wearing cologne? Should I withhold sex or something?

[Amber]

Lol, OK. How about some advice on getting uncooperative LSI to realize it's important to groom his own facial hair (including overgrown nose hair) + maybe consider wearing cologne? Should I withhold sex or something?

I'm kind of stressed out these days. Shouldn't Fe cheer me up? lol. Dunno. Buy him stuff you want to see on him yourself. If you bring the cologne (good one) and a bunch of new clothes you know he's gonna like, he might soften and forget about being stubborn. I'm tempted to say he may be doing it to piss you off but who knows. Talk about other well-groomed dudes, show him what a cool man is in your view, flirt with them maybe. Withholding sex is only gonna stir him up to rape you.

[strangeling]

Withholding sex is only gonna stir him up to rape you.

And why is that?

[Joy]

Male or female, I think xSI's are the most carefully groomed types in the socion. EIE's also put a lot of time into their appearance.

[Beautiful sky]

odor? how? well it doesn't matter I find that most things come within the person, being an example is usually a good start

[Leader]

....Type/Function both does and does not have to do with appearance/fashion or looks or whatever.

Its more about the person and their individual tastes...as well as their income Some people just don't know what the fuck they are doing. Take for example EIE, they want to make "bold" statements about themselves with loud colors and think they like to look good. They can be creative, but sometimes they look ridiculous. Russell Brand and Nicki Minaj first come to mind when I think of this.

LSIs that i've known are very concerned about their appearance...one LSI I know, like me at times, can spend hours in front of the mirror checking himself out.

[Leader]

Should I withhold sex or something?

...Im sorry for the...aggressiveness. I just have to say it, I want to slap you right now. Women in general, and in my experience IEI women especially, you think this is going to change anything? I hate these sort of tactics/games. Who do you think you're dealing with? A boy or a man? A man isn't going to deal with someone who thinks they can "punish him" in order to try to change him into something hes not. Yes...he should get his act together, but really...really... -_-

[kadda1212]

Lol, OK. How about some advice on getting uncooperative LSI to realize it's important to groom his own facial hair (including overgrown nose hair) + maybe consider wearing cologne? Should I withhold sex or something?

Hell, no!
Overgrown nose hair...reminds me of my father. My mother bought him a nose hair trimmer. She also buys clothes for him and cuts his hair. At least he's still capable of shaving himself. But some men really don't care about stuff like that. All they care about is how comfortable they feel inside their clothes.
Some things you will have to do for him. Some things, I'm afraid, you have to accept.

[FDG]

LSIs that i've known are very concerned about their appearance...one LSI I know, like me at times, can spend hours in front of the mirror checking himself out.

Yep, I find the whole story slightly strange.

[xerx]

I recently shaved my afro to look presentable for a job interview. I cut my hair short to prolong the time before I need to cut it again.

Anyway, I'm cheap and don't like paying for something that'll grow back in a week. I opt for $5 barbershops run by immigrants whenever I can. I'm still concerned about my appearance, just not ocd about it.

I'm not LSI; sorry, I got no advice about how to manipulate your man.

[bolong]

Idk. He does care to look a certain way. The unkempt stoner look. I don't have any issues with that, or his choice in clothes. It's more like I want him to look more respectable at times, and this requires only minor tweaks but he doesn't know how to do that. I'd rather not manipulate him at all, I'd rather we were both on the same page about it, aka have him realize I'm asking for a rather small thing that's also in his interest.

Would I withhold sex tho drive this point home? Absolutely.

[Aivonaima]

Would I withhold sex tho drive this point home? Absolutely.

Here's a softer variation: don't withhold sex per se, but start dropping hints on how you find certain hairstyles (or whatever it is that you want to change) sexually unappealing or even alarming. Additionally, hinting on how very appealing you really find this certain hairstyle. It's worked for me! Cunning plot is cunning.

[bolong]

Male or female, I think xSI's are the most carefully groomed types in the socion.

Hmm. I had an ESI roommate who was really into professional makeup, she wanted to make sure she had the right look for day and night. She also was very particular that boyfriend shouldn't see her in the same outfit twice. I can't imagine any gender of Ti ego thinking like this. But maybe they just don't admit it.

[Amber]

Hmm. I had an ESI roommate who was really into professional makeup, she wanted to make sure she had the right look for day and night. She also was very particular that boyfriend shouldn't see her in the same outfit twice. I can't imagine any gender of Ti ego thinking like this. But maybe they just don't admit it.

I'm going to conclude this is what Ni-Ti Loop looks like : tons of people around you draw attention to facts, but you stick to your dear personal rationalizations cause you "can't imagine any Ti ego ... etc".

[kadda1212]

@YellowHat: After all you should see the postive aspect of this: if your boyfriend isn't that well groomed, noone will try to steal him from you.

[Aivonaima]

@YellowHat: After all you should see the postive aspect of this: if your boyfriend isn't that well groomed, noone will try to steal him from you.

That shouldn't be something you have to consider in a healthy relationship. In fact, this sort of attitude even seems a little creepy and possessive to me.

[kadda1212]

That shouldn't be something you have to consider in a healthy relationship. In fact, this sort of attitude even seems a little creepy and possessive to me.

This was meant to be a joke.

Anyway, there are a bunch of things that don't necessarily have to be considered in a healthy relationship. Nosehair, for example.

[Narc]

The general premise and the tactics in this thread are kind of unsettling, to be honest.

[sarinana]

Se = the looks, Si = comfort. From my experience ethical types even with weak sensing care about how others perceive them, therefore it leaves you with NTs being the smelliest, dirtiest types.

[kadda1212]

I think this song fits the subject of the thread quite well (only it's about women who don't care about their appearance):

[bolong]

I get what everyone is trying to say - sensors pay attention to their appearance, especially extraverted sensing. I agree with this. I guess in this context, I value the exceptions to the rule more than the rule, bc I already know the rule. And the exceptions come from what I have seen with my own eyes, not various type descriptions, so I'm not just going to write it off that easily.


Like I know for a fact that my bf usually looks like this:

d97c8d03e1a3ea6727ac29bdddc838e8.jpg

But he can also sometimes look like this:

4407-14080.jpg


The second one is a bit of an exaggeration, yes. And I realize if I were a guy talking about my girlfriend like this it would make me look like a jerk. But the point is to draw attention to the huge difference in sexual appeal from the first picture to the second. A girl thinks she's landed a Ryan Gosling, and one messy trim job later he ends up being Fagin???

To give some background, bf always got hair and beard trimmed at the same time by a barber. We lived in Mumbai for a year, and there he insisted on going to the cheapest ones, who didn't do that good of a job on the hair (or beard). That was annoying, but it grew out quickly.

We've been in San Francisco for 6 months now, during which time he hasn't cut his hair once. While looking for a new apt I suggested that maybe we would have a better chance getting the one we wanted if he didn't look so ungroomed. This Sunday he went off to get a trimmer, did a pretty bad job reducing his beard down to stubble, in the meantime his hair is still long and shaggy, put a beanie on top of that and ew it's Fagin. We actually haven't had sex since the beard incident, which I realize is only 4 days but we are usually at it 2 or 3 times a day and I'm beginning to feel a bit of a strain and frustration in our interaction. I know I was (semi) joking about this on this thread, but the lack of sex was not initiated by me at all.. I didn't say anything, neither has he tried.. I think (hope) that he has just picked up on how I'm not attracted to him at the moment. I'm on my way to my parents' now, which has resulted in us resuming jolly chatter on mobile, as well as him telling me he'll have a buzz cut by the time I'm back. (I showed him pictures of attractive men with buzz cuts lol.)

I've learned a couple things from this, which I will share:

1) It's possible that we are transitioning into a new phase in our relationship. You can't always be in the infatuated, easy breezy phase, and to our credit we made that phase last really long. Normally I react to a lessening of intensity as though the whole thing is ending. I haven't actually been in a relationship this long before. So, maybe I need to check myself a little, everything else about him is so great that maybe I should try having sex with Fagin once in a while, in any case Gosling will be back soon.

2) I'm not going to say anything about grooming any more to him.

I'm going to conclude this is what Ni-Ti Loop looks like : tons of people around you draw attention to facts, but you stick to your dear personal rationalizations cause you "can't imagine any Ti ego ... etc".

Idk if it's a loop as much as just Ti-HA. Ni-HA looks very similar:

: unshakeable and stubborn defense of ideas and beliefs against all opposition, with unwillingness to even discuss the possibility of their not being correct

: unshakeable belief that you know exactly what is going to happen in your life in a given situation, or precipitated action since you know that "now is the time to act", but ending up shooting your own foot in both cases

[blackburry]

Idk. He does care to look a certain way. The unkempt stoner look. I don't have any issues with that, or his choice in clothes. It's more like I want him to look more respectable at times, and this requires only minor tweaks but he doesn't know how to do that. I'd rather not manipulate him at all, I'd rather we were both on the same page about it, aka have him realize I'm asking for a rather small thing that's also in his interest.

Would I withhold sex tho drive this point home? Absolutely.

Why wouldn't you just say, "hey babe, you're hot. you're super hot when you keep your hair nice (give clear directions here of what -you- think looks best). it's okay if you don't but just want to let you know that."




I hate when people try to go about things ass backwards. and I'd be pretty pissed if a SO felt they were no longer attracted to me due to a crap hair do
but. whatevs.

[Narc]

Congratulations on successfully bending your boyfriend to your will. Hopefully he's a bit more proactive with changing himself to appease your whims in future.

If he's slow to catch on, just subtly communicate to him that you don't want to fuck him until he changes again. Seems to have worked quite well this time.

[bolong]

@blackburry, @Narc

Would either of you fuck Fagin?