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Thread: Somebody beat Socionics out of me

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    Default Somebody beat Socionics out of me

    I've got a thing for a person that is not my dual (or activator), which is not the problem. The problem is that, despite of despising Socionics, during my weakest moments the accuracy of some (negative) intertype relationship descriptions kind of bothers me a little. I really do see other infantiles as awesome, but also "needy in a stressful way", for example. I would like to shut that voice in my head up and just live my life. Any tips?
    Last edited by willekeurig; 12-16-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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    socionics is fun and a great social toy but sometimes i think to myself that people can act outside their type (mostly meaning "hardwired" traits instead of S-type,if you like dis better) and adapt themselves accordingly depending on their intelligence and good personality traits

    socionics only shows you a way to internally verbalize what bothers you. i mean, wouldnt you find the same "deficits" in that person even if it werent for the theory? at least now you can vaguely say that you are a lot alike and that you do not really act complementary .i think they'll appreciate the insight and in case the whole thing doesnt eventually work out, you can provide a logical explanation that will not really hurt any side cuz U R JUST NOT DUALS lullulul
    Last edited by kalinoche; 01-04-2014 at 04:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I've got a thing for a person that is not my dual, which is not the problem. The problem is that, despite of despising Socionics, during my weakest moments the accuracy of some (negative) intertype relationship descriptions kind of bothers me a little. I really do see other infantiles as awesome, but also "needy in a stressful way", for example. I would like to shut that voice in my head up and just live my life. Any tips?
    I've dated tons of IEI's recently. They are very, very diverse. Enneagram, instinct variant, DCNH subtypes... whatever... each one is different. Most of them are dreadfully boring.

    I once asked my SEI friend how he knew when to get married. He said,

    "every time I see her, I'm nervous as hell and I get butterflies. Even after 3 years. Butterflies, every time I see her."

    I believe his wife is another SEI and they've been dating for 3 years.

    Based on my 1 GOOD experience with duality, I agree. Except with duality, it was more like, everytime we saw each other, we were terrified and knew we were ill suited to participate in one anothers' worlds, but that's what made it so exciting, and we took each other for a ride regardless. I took her speeding through the city in my sports car and on drunken clubbing trips through the city where we'd cuddle in the dark in front of the mood lights, and she'd take me to a large football tailgater and introduce me to everyone in her "tribe". Often times entering her room was like being the VIP of a club, she'd have a full house at all times and when she saw me she'd wave me in to cut the line at her door, haha. Every time I saw her I'd stutter and not know what to say but I'd give her the eyes and couldn't take them off. I'd just wave hi with the biggest smile I've ever had, and everytime she saw me she'd go red in the face and freeze up until I took her hand and we just head off in silence.

    Shame it didn't work out, fucking military... I had to appologize to her and tell her, "I'm sorry, I really want to play chase with you but I have 3 F's and I don't have time for this at the moment." so... Idunno, once she's out of the military and I have a stable job I might call her up again 3 years from now. I hope I get to. I still miss her.

    Duality is great, but, Idunno. Just find a happily married couple and ask them what their secret was. Often times I think the secret is as simple as, "2 perfectly happy people, living the lives they've always wanted to live, and sharing them together."

    If you aren't happy with your life, no one else is going to be anyway. I think duality has an advantage of showing both people that their lives are a miserable wreck, and thus, they work to better themselves, whereas in other relationships this isn't always the case.
    Last edited by Azure Flame; 12-16-2013 at 02:51 AM.
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    You won't be able to shut the voice off in your head, at this point your mind is already saturated with it. I know this, cause I went through the same thing. I can't help, because I don't understand it myself.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    Heh... get out there and start dating and you'll see what works for you. Until then you will sit here and think yourselves in circles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the16types View Post
    socionics is fun and a great social toy but sometimes i think to myself that people can act outside their type and adapt themselves accordingly depending on their intelligence and good personality traits

    socionics only shows you a way to internally verbalize what bothers you. i mean, wouldnt you find the same "deficits" in that person even if it werent for the theory? at least now you can vaguely say that you are a lot alike and that you do not really act complementary .i think they'll appreciate the insight and in case the whole thing doesnt eventually work out, you can provide a logical explanation that will not really hurt any side cuz U R JUST NOT DUALS lullulul
    I think Socionics has allowed me to be articulate about the very things of the subconscious desire nature that I couldn't place a handle on before. I like that NOW I'm able to say "hi...you're not good with relationships right? and I'm damn good with that. And I really suck at putting out a lot of consistent energy to do things...why don't I watch you do them and keep track of the time for you "
    hahaha

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    I've honestly gotten to the point where I no longer really care. I wish I could do for you what you want, but I have yet to beat Socionics out of myself. Lol. I think that at this point, if perfect duality showed up, I'd probably react without thinking and simply smack it in the face. Whether or not I'd regret that... probably. But c'est la vie! I give no fucks. Burn the bridges, forget the past. Dive into life so hard and fast that nothing makes sense and I barely know where I'm going one day to the next. C'est la vie.

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    Well, even if you don't take a step back from Socionics, you'd probably be alright dating dual, activator, mirror, identical, quasis, semi-duals, mirage and business. That leaves you with half of the whole pool of types to choose from. Surely your beau falls into one of those.

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    Out of curiosity – which type do you think the person in question is?

    There is some truth to socionics, I've noticed. I used to think it's not that important, after all I was in a good, long-term relationship with an LII when I was first introduced to socionics.

    So I thought, fuck that, as long as we love each other and get along, that's all that matters, right? Yet the reason I decided it's not going to work out in the long run is ridiculously easily explained by socionics – our motivations and ambitions didn't meet. He's an alpha introvert Sp, and is fine with living a quiet, comfortable life with simple pleasures and light-hearted fun. And I'm not. I realized I couldn't afford being emotionally invested in someone with very few goals in life, and especially someone who considers my ambitions megalomanic and not only refrains from pushing me towards my goals but also bluntly refuses to help me achieve them.

    And I could easily imagine several similar scenarios. For instance, conflicts between Fe/Fi valuers could really drain you in the long run. And yeah, two infantiles might still expect – unconsciously if nothing else – caregiver behavior from each other and end up feeling that their needs go unfulfilled.

    Idk. I'd probably stick with quadra members. Then again if you don't encounter this sorta problems, who's to say you couldn't work it out? Not all dual relationships work out either, after all. Try it. Talk to them. Express your needs and reservations. Good communication works wonders.
    "Use every ounce of potential you have, raise revolution against what people expect of you, and tell the world this is not a rehearsal. This is the real me. And listen up, ‘cause it could be the most honest incarnation yet."

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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    You have to be careful who you take advice from in life. My understanding is that Aushra died a very lonely death. She miserably delved into socionics as a way of proving how incompatible some people were.
    She did a lot of navel gazing because she was in a benefit relation with her husband which was terrible. She was miserable and lonely long before she discovered socionics. Bad relations can poison your life, but that pain can be educating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I would like to shut that voice in my head up and just live my life. Any tips?
    Well, if you know what "my life" is or "living my life" is like then choices are already made aren't they?

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    The best way to kick a drug is with a better drug... learn astrology. Or start meditating, repeat the mantra "I am myself" 1000x a day for the next couple months. Maybe that will work

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    when socionics' roots have ingrained so deep, the only option is to completely remove infected areas of the brain. in other words, a lobotomy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vois View Post
    when socionics' roots have ingrained so deep, the only option is to completely remove infected areas of the brain. in other words, a lobotomy.
    So far, chemical lobotomy has only provided me a temporary ease and I don't think they do traditional ones anymore?? : /
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    So far, chemical lobotomy has only provided me a temporary ease and I don't think they do traditional ones anymore?? : /
    Sometimes I watch other people's doomed relationships with a sort of Dr. Manhatten-esq sense of meaninglessness, like things are happening, I can see the Comedian shooting the gun, but I do nothing.

    You could simply adopt this sense of detachment and engage in whatever you want.

    Other times I see duals get together and make babies. I think the knowledge has it's upsides and downsides.

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    The way that worked for me is getting off this site and not reading anything related to it for an extended time. Now I don't much care about socionics and just visit this site every once in a while. I still manage to maintain not thinking about people's types all the time like I used to prior to my detox.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    Out of curiosity – which type do you think the person in question is?

    There is some truth to socionics, I've noticed. I used to think it's not that important, after all I was in a good, long-term relationship with an LII when I was first introduced to socionics.

    So I thought, fuck that, as long as we love each other and get along, that's all that matters, right? Yet the reason I decided it's not going to work out in the long run is ridiculously easily explained by socionics – our motivations and ambitions didn't meet. He's an alpha introvert Sp, and is fine with living a quiet, comfortable life with simple pleasures and light-hearted fun. And I'm not. I realized I couldn't afford being emotionally invested in someone with very few goals in life, and especially someone who considers my ambitions megalomanic and not only refrains from pushing me towards my goals but also bluntly refuses to help me achieve them.

    And I could easily imagine several similar scenarios. For instance, conflicts between Fe/Fi valuers could really drain you in the long run. And yeah, two infantiles might still expect – unconsciously if nothing else – caregiver behavior from each other and end up feeling that their needs go unfulfilled.

    Idk. I'd probably stick with quadra members. Then again if you don't encounter this sorta problems, who's to say you couldn't work it out? Not all dual relationships work out either, after all. Try it. Talk to them. Express your needs and reservations. Good communication works wonders.
    He's Ne-IEE, so that's still a Delta. I didn't realise the extent to which it is possible to suck at Si until I met him. I used to think I was super bad, but I'm actually even able to help him a little with it, which he seems to appreciate. I wouldn't be surprised if he felt the same way about me and Te. Oh well.
    What I wonder the most about is if/how the temperament issues might arise - I've often been praised by my EP friends for always being ready for adventures and having a certain flexibility when it comes to plans and changing them. Maybe that's the Sx talking in me. I actually wouldn't be surprised if, in the end, the stackings made a bigger difference than socionics compability. At least looking at my friends it seems that the ones that stick around the longest are always Sx doms, even if we are supposed to have a bad socionics compatibility. (Good thing this IEE dude is definitely Sx). Out of mere curiosity, would you care to tell me some examples of your and your (ex?) boyfriend's clashes where you think the Sp vs. Sx conflict has played a significant part? I too have learnt it the hard way that Sp types (especially Sx lasts, ugh) will in most cases drive me up a wall in the long run. Would be interesting to see if our experiences coincide.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Sometimes I watch other people's doomed relationships with a sort of Dr. Manhatten-esq sense of meaninglessness, like things are happening, I can see the Comedian shooting the gun, but I do nothing.

    You could simply adopt this sense of detachment and engage in whatever you want..
    Eh, is this Fi polr or did I misunderstand something? Detaching myself emotionally from the relationship would protect me from disappointments, yeah, but emotional involvement is pretty much the whole point of relationships in the first place.. there wouldn't be much to gain either if I wanted to look at everything from an outsider's point of view, as if it wasn't happening to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I actually wouldn't be surprised if, in the end, the stackings made a bigger difference than socionics compability. At least looking at my friends it seems that the ones that stick around the longest are always Sx doms, even if we are supposed to have a bad socionics compatibility. (Good thing this IEE dude is definitely Sx). Out of mere curiosity, would you care to tell me some examples of your and your (ex?) boyfriend's clashes where you think the Sp vs. Sx conflict has played a significant part? I too have learnt it the hard way that Sp types (especially Sx lasts, ugh) will in most cases drive me up a wall in the long run. Would be interesting to see if our experiences coincide.
    (He's something like a platonic-status-quo-life-partner-best-friend-trusted-person Idk I hate to classify human-to-human relationships because I can never tell what sort of feelings tomorrow brings. Eeeh victim much?? )

    Humm, well, since he's Sp/Sx (I think???) and I'm Sx/Sp (I think??? I'm not sure), it's not as bad as it could be. The biggest problem we've had is probably that he needs to feel safe and comfortable in order to enjoy that Sx intensity whereas for me, it's the other way around – I feel safe and comfortable through that Sx intensity. When we're both feeling fine it's no problem, but when we're not, it turns into a tug-o-war where I'm trying to make a contact with him and he keeps evading my attempts, which in turn makes me feel rejected and unsafe while he feels pressured and like I'm violating his personal space. This was a waaaay bigger problem back when we were still intensely romantic though. But yeah. That's basically it.

    It sounds to me like your infantile/infantile problems could easily be overcome. If your stackings and quadra values match anyway you can probably work out the rest with good communication. Or just hire a caregiver to change your nappies/car tires (or whatever else delta caregivers do, I really don't know nor care), problem solved
    Last edited by Aivonaima; 12-18-2013 at 02:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the16types View Post
    socionics is fun and a great social toy but sometimes i think to myself that people can act outside their type and adapt themselves accordingly depending on their intelligence and good personality traits

    socionics only shows you a way to internally verbalize what bothers you. i mean, wouldnt you find the same "deficits" in that person even if it werent for the theory? at least now you can vaguely say that you are a lot alike and that you do not really act complementary .i think they'll appreciate the insight and in case the whole thing doesnt eventually work out, you can provide a logical explanation that will not really hurt any side cuz U R JUST NOT DUALS lullulul
    For those that treat the theory as a science, they don't actually look at it like a play tool and furthermore they've began to add layers of complexity to help better explain why the intra-type diversity is so wide as well as the sheer range of dynamic behaviours that can be observed in a single TIM. Core socionics as taught in most schools has a problem of treating sociotypes as caricatures instead of volatile, chaotic and incredibly dynamic entities they are; this were gulenko has been saying it helps to view it as a complicated fractal and the importance of more models than just ''model a'' is ever more important in aiding the understanding of such complexity.

    Despite sociotypes being very complicated and difficult to actually study in reality, there is a truth to it that has to be studies. One interesting point is actually looking at how all relation possess a destructive, difficult side to them that makes getting along difficult, duality is the most misunderstood of all relations due to the unrealistic, romanticized perception that has been stuck to it,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    Eh, is this Fi polr or did I misunderstand something? Detaching myself emotionally from the relationship would protect me from disappointments, yeah, but emotional involvement is pretty much the whole point of relationships in the first place.. there wouldn't be much to gain either if I wanted to look at everything from an outsider's point of view, as if it wasn't happening to me.
    You don't have to detach yourself emotionally if you don't want.

    You can step into the fire even if you know you will get burned.

    Then again I naturally sit and watch from a outsiders perspective, when I'm fighting and raging, there is always a part of me sitting at the side and observing, it's amusing even.

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    Turn the socionics thoughts into a positive. IEE-Nes are flexible and accommodating types as long as you clearly communicate when something bothers you or when you need something. Go along for the ride, tell him when he gets on your nerves or when you need alone-time to recharge, and keep emotional things non-ambiguous to minimize neediness on his part. Good to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    For those that treat the theory as a science, they don't actually look at it like a play tool and furthermore they've began to add layers of complexity to help better explain why the intra-type diversity is so wide as well as the sheer range of dynamic behaviours that can be observed in a single TIM. Core socionics as taught in most schools has a problem of treating sociotypes as caricatures instead of volatile, chaotic and incredibly dynamic entities they are; this were gulenko has been saying it helps to view it as a complicated fractal and the importance of more models than just ''model a'' is ever more important in aiding the understanding of such complexity.

    Despite sociotypes being very complicated and difficult to actually study in reality, there is a truth to it that has to be studies. One interesting point is actually looking at how all relation possess a destructive, difficult side to them that makes getting along difficult, duality is the most misunderstood of all relations due to the unrealistic, romanticized perception that has been stuck to it,
    apparently there are many ways to approach it, be it a social toy or a complex structure of abstraction upon abstraction. i'm sure u'll find people to work with you (maybe even on this forum) and pretend that you understand each other. the thing is that you cannot eliminate the dull-witted fanbase who like to work with 'em caricatures.it's a matter of priorities?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Turn the socionics thoughts into a positive. IEE-Nes are flexible and accommodating types as long as you clearly communicate when something bothers you or when you need something. Go along for the ride, tell him when he gets on your nerves or when you need alone-time to recharge, and keep emotional things non-ambiguous to minimize neediness on his part. Good to go.
    Socionics also provides a explanation of her problem.

    If she's EII.

    She's also an intuitive process type and process types are more picky, while intuitive types are insightful.

    Even without socionics she will easily see problems before they begin and as a process type she will dig deeper and deeper into these concerns. I think socionics is just a part of that equation and might be the model by which she expresses her concerns, it gives some further model based insights and knowledge which she might not have if she didn't know the system but some of her concerns would probably still exist. I started learning socionics to fully understand possible problems in relationships, but that doesn't mean I didn't see problems upon problems upon problems before, what it did teach me is that with some people these problems can be resolved smoothly and others are irrevocably broken.

    Every time something bad happens she will delve into her repository of knowledge for what might go wrong, socionics or non-socionics. She's also a cause effect thinker which makes some of the predictions socionics make more worrisome to her.

    As a intuitive, process, cause-effect thinker I go thru a very similar process of evaluation before I undertake anything, and I can empathize with her right as I'm kinda of going thru a similar thing.

    So in the words of famous Result type everywhere...

    YOLO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    (He's something like a platonic-status-quo-life-partner-best-friend-trusted-person Idk I hate to classify human-to-human relationships because I can never tell what sort of feelings tomorrow brings. Eeeh victim much?? )
    Hah, this actually seems very much "intelligent/intellectual/open-minded human being"- related to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aivonaima View Post
    It sounds to me like your infantile/infantile problems could easily be overcome. If your stackings and quadra values match anyway you can probably work out the rest with good communication. Or just hire a caregiver to change your nappies/car tires (or whatever else delta caregivers do, I really don't know nor care), problem solved
    I'll keep my thumbs up Thanks for your insights ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    I've got a thing for a person that is not my dual (or activator), which is not the problem. The problem is that, despite of despising Socionics, during my weakest moments the accuracy of some (negative) intertype relationship descriptions kind of bothers me a little. I really do see other infantiles as awesome, but also "needy in a stressful way", for example. I would like to shut that voice in my head up and just live my life. Any tips?
    I think it's good to listen to the voice in your head. Especially if there is a logical reason for it (socionics intertype relationships.)

    Your post made an alarm go off in my head because I have spent a lot of time closely working with an infantile and I find them loveable but exhausting because of my Si polr. She is more out of my orbit now and I am so relieved. When we do occasionally work together, the old stress on me returns right back at the same heightened level. It's like my veneer has worn very thin over the years and is fragile and no amount of distance can make it go back to the resilience and optimism and joy that I had when I first met her.

    I know your experience would be different because the EIIs that I know are much happier working on Si stuff for their loved ones. But they absolutely expend themselves in the process of doing their "duty." I wrote about an EII friend in one of my first posts (I think it is in the Delta forum) and her infantile husband and children. I will try to find it for you. It is definately a cautionary tale (sorry to be a downer.)
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    I think it's good to listen to the voice in your head. Especially if there is a logical reason for it (socionics intertype relationships.)

    Your post made an alarm go off in my head because I have spent a lot of time closely working with an infantile and I find them loveable but exhausting because of my Si polr. She is more out of my orbit now and I am so relieved. When we do occasionally work together, the old stress on me returns right back at the same heightened level. It's like my veneer has worn very thin over the years and is fragile and no amount of distance can make it go back to the resilience and optimism and joy that I had when I first met her.
    Yea, hmm. I have a hard time telling when "the voice in my head" should be taken seriously and when it's just me being naturally over-analytical etc. I think @hkkmr really hit the spot with that intuitive-process-cause&effect thinking-comment. I apply that kind of approach to basically everything. I try to be careful to not miss experiences and adventures because of over-cautiousness.

    Your experience with the Ne girl sounds interesting - as a Se polr I usually find mostly Se dominants intimidating or stressing; Se creatives or Se-seekers not really at all. Actually, my best friend since high school is IEI and we've never really had a problem with each others' dual seeking functions. Then again there's also an ILI I know that annoys the heck out of me with his Se-neediness. He's super insecure about a lot of stuff tho (it feels like he's constantly looking for a saviour or something), which probably plays a big part in that. It would be nice to hear more about your experience tho, if you don't mind sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    I know your experience would be different because the EIIs that I know are much happier working on Si stuff for their loved ones. But they absolutely expend themselves in the process of doing their "duty." I wrote about an EII friend in one of my first posts (I think it is in the Delta forum) and her infantile husband and children. I will try to find it for you. It is definately a cautionary tale (sorry to be a downer.)
    I don't know how typical of an EII I'm regarding the duty thing. I actually have a tendency to get in trouble for not caring enough about my duties, be it school or relationship or whatever else related. I'd say the only exception is when I've really put a single person on a pedestal and want him/her to like me, but I feel like that's got more to do with unhealthy attachment models than "normal" type-related personality traits. In any case, I'd like to read your post if you find it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post

    I don't know how typical of an EII I'm regarding the duty thing. I actually have a tendency to get in trouble for not caring enough about my duties, be it school or relationship or whatever else related. I'd say the only exception is when I've really put a single person on a pedestal and want him/her to like me, but I feel like that's got more to do with unhealthy attachment models than "normal" type-related personality traits. In any case, I'd like to read your post if you find it.
    It was 2 threads, actually: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...2-EII-Question "My friend is married to an ILE who is always injuring himself doing "money saving" projects. In his spare time he injures himself in his recreational activities! Her two children are also Infantiles - IEE and ILE. They are in college but still seem to require a huge amount of attention. My friend helps out in the family business which her husband runs with his brother, another infantile - LII. The good thing for my friend is that she does have a group of close friends who care about her."

    And http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...mp-ENTp)/page2 post #64. "... he is always coming up with crazy schemes and underestimating their physical difficulty, and then injuring himself. She (the EII) sees it coming and warns him with her demonstrative function and he ignores her advice with his ignoring function. Then he gets hurt. Then he feels embarrassed. Then she has to doctor him which she does in a very selfless way that takes a lot out of her. She never says, I told you so. But I am sure she is thinking it. I don't know what you call the warning then catastrophe pattern thing that looks like supervision." I didn't mention that her IEE daughter has had mostly (IMO) imagined physical woes for most of her life and my friend is always fretting over her and trying to help her diagnose and treat the problem. It is always some rare condition that the daughter has read about and self-diagnosed.

    I know that our sociotypes manifest themselves in many different ways, but something that is a common thread among my EII friends is that they would sacrifice any amount of time and attention to take care of their loved ones. If you look at my signature, you will see that I believe in falling in love with the one you are crazy about, even if they are not your dual. Your dual may never enter your life. But am speaking in this warning way because I just spent a week working on projects with the love of my life who I wanted to kill most of the time…. Just a little conflicting quadra stuff, nothing new. But as I wrote in another thread, it gets OLD!!!
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    Yea, hmm. I have a hard time telling when "the voice in my head" should be taken seriously and when it's just me being naturally over-analytical etc. I think @hkkmr really hit the spot with that intuitive-process-cause&effect thinking-comment. I apply that kind of approach to basically everything. I try to be careful to not miss experiences and adventures because of over-cautiousness.

    Your experience with the Ne girl sounds interesting - as a Se polr I usually find mostly Se dominants intimidating or stressing; Se creatives or Se-seekers not really at all. Actually, my best friend since high school is IEI and we've never really had a problem with each others' dual seeking functions. Then again there's also an ILI I know that annoys the heck out of me with his Se-neediness. He's super insecure about a lot of stuff tho (it feels like he's constantly looking for a saviour or something), which probably plays a big part in that. It would be nice to hear more about your experience tho, if you don't mind sharing.
    .
    My experience with ILEs and IEEs is that I click with their intuitive ways, I feel like I can help them with the Si problem that they inevitably express to me, then the Si needs just never go away, and I get tired of making suggestions and helping them. Which I feel bad about because they are nice people and what kind of mean-spirited person am I that I want to run away screaming? Perhaps the extroversion of both of our types makes for more of an uncomfy relationship than you experience with IEIs...
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    One other thought - my brother is an ILE and has had his share of Si issues, mostly self induced (for example, he is missing the tip of a few fingers due to inadequate safety measures in his workshop,) but I connect with him and love him and I know he loves me in some way that I can't fathom. It is very sweet, but I can't wait to get away from the Si dual seeking health related monologues when he visits. He even has his very own perfect dual (my awesome sainted sister-in-law,) but that doesn't reduce the dual seeking. I mostly listen and try to politely and unsuccessfully distract or deflect to other topics while silently screaming inside. Then, thank the Lord, I can retreat to the company and comfort of my silent IP husband.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Yeah, infantiles do need a lot of attention!

    One LII guy I dated had a bag that was secured via a string, the string broke, and he didn't have the idea to simply tie the sides of the bag...

    ILE ex ate shitty food all the time and yet was deeply picky about food and resistant to anything that he hadn't tried before. His room was a mess and yet he had all these thoughts about color theory and decor. I once made dinner for him to have when he returned to his apt from a trip (b/c he had called me and asked me to) and he told me he felt "incredibly loved" (whereas for me, it felt like an obligatory yet easy gesture- I was pretty over him by this point.) I folded a shit ton of laundry for him in like seven minutes once. I once mended some clothes for him b/c he sort of showed me these holes and asked me if I could fix them for him. It turned out that he already had a sewing kit prepared b/c he figured I would say yes.

    Just this week I had an IEE couchsurfer whose Si seemed so weak that I was constantly worried for him. At first I wasn't sure of his type and didn't want to be intrusive by constantly offering him food, telling him his clothing wasn't warm enough, etc, but I honestly couldn't help noticing these things. It was like I felt this constant itch around him like "oh my god this person cannot take care of himself- must, must remedy immediately."

    I don't know- when I'm around Ne-people I realize how fucking Si I am. Then again I am extremely Ne and Ti needy and I'm sure that's equally obvious.

    Back to the OP though- I think that you find the same annoyances in the interaction regardless of socionics, it's just that socionics gives you a more seamless interaction to strive for (duality.) But at the end of the day, how much you like the person really is more important than all else. Especially if it's a same-quadra relationship (no weird communication issues), and if you haven't dated duals in the past (I think that makes you more aware of all the other little logistical "problems" in other relationships, even if the non-dual person is a generally cooler human being.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Yeah, infantiles do need a lot of attention!

    One LII guy I dated had a bag that was secured via a string, the string broke, and he didn't have the idea to simply tie the sides of the bag...

    ILE ex ate shitty food all the time and yet was deeply picky about food and resistant to anything that he hadn't tried before. His room was a mess and yet he had all these thoughts about color theory and decor. I once made dinner for him to have when he returned to his apt from a trip (b/c he had called me and asked me to) and he told me he felt "incredibly loved" (whereas for me, it felt like an obligatory yet easy gesture- I was pretty over him by this point.) I folded a shit ton of laundry for him in like seven minutes once. I once mended some clothes for him b/c he sort of showed me these holes and asked me if I could fix them for him. It turned out that he already had a sewing kit prepared b/c he figured I would say yes.

    Just this week I had an IEE couchsurfer whose Si seemed so weak that I was constantly worried for him. At first I wasn't sure of his type and didn't want to be intrusive by constantly offering him food, telling him his clothing wasn't warm enough, etc, but I honestly couldn't help noticing these things. It was like I felt this constant itch around him like "oh my god this person cannot take care of himself- must, must remedy immediately."
    Awwwe.. I don't know if these make me more amused or sad. I really hope I'm not that bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I don't know- when I'm around Ne-people I realize how fucking Si I am. Then again I am extremely Ne and Ti needy and I'm sure that's equally obvious.
    That's interesting - I'm painfully aware of my Te- and Si-neediness (and am sure it's also obvious to others), but I never seem to see how people that have them as ego functions would need Fi or Ne from me. They seem to be doing just fine. It's a little weird how some Te types will listen to my pseudo psychological bullshit with such interest, but it's not really the same as being needy for it. I often have to make direct requests to get Te/Si help, but I don't recall having anyone do the same for me. What could they even ask for, really? "My brain cannot think of any activities for this afternoon, would you list me some options?" eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    killer wolf lemontrees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    Awwwe.. I don't know if these make me more amused or sad. I really hope I'm not that bad.



    That's interesting - I'm painfully aware of my Te- and Si-neediness (and am sure it's also obvious to others), but I never seem to see how people that have them as ego functions would need Fi or Ne from me. They seem to be doing just fine. It's a little weird how some Te types will listen to my pseudo psychological bullshit with such interest, but it's not really the same as being needy for it. I often have to make direct requests to get Te/Si help, but I don't recall having anyone do the same for me. What could they even ask for, really? "My brain cannot think of any activities for this afternoon, would you list me some options?" eh?
    I'm not sure if it's that I notice they need something from me. I think at first I simply that I feel like they are acting in a way that I find endearing but sort of ridiculous, and which I have an itch to fix. But if it were not for socionics I am not sure I would be confident that they wanted my input.

    I also think that delta ST does seem like a very independent type, at first- they can usually take care of all of their immediate concerns just fine, so it may seem like they don't need more. But if you spend more time with them you can definitely feel their desire for Ne and Fi. They make random jokes (or try to), and LSE's and SLI's in different ways both want someone to articulate how they feel back to them (but not in an Fe-way.) It's hard to explain, but I've definitely felt that desire coming from them and felt bad when I give them some Fi but not a lot (I feel "fake" if I am constantly in Fi mode like I am trying to act like someone who is not myself.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I'm not sure if it's that I notice they need something from me. I think at first I simply that I feel like they are acting in a way that I find endearing but sort of ridiculous, and which I have an itch to fix. But if it were not for socionics I am not sure I would be confident that they wanted my input.

    I also think that delta ST does seem like a very independent type, at first- they can usually take care of all of their immediate concerns just fine, so it may seem like they don't need more. But if you spend more time with them you can definitely feel their desire for Ne and Fi. They make random jokes (or try to), and LSE's and SLI's in different ways both want someone to articulate how they feel back to them (but not in an Fe-way.) It's hard to explain, but I've definitely felt that desire coming from them and felt bad when I give them some Fi but not a lot (I feel "fake" if I am constantly in Fi mode like I am trying to act like someone who is not myself.)
    I agree that they seem like they have their act together, and the ones I know are great at volunteering and doing good for others. So they seem very complete to me, but I do notice they really appreciate it when I articulate the Fi benefit of whatever they have been doing. I think they can lose sight of the human element in their busy TeSi world and EIIs can really help with that.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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