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Thread: How Enneagram manifests in ILEs-ENTps

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    Default How Enneagram manifests in ILEs-ENTps

    I'm interested in Enneagram, but its descriptions seem really general (even for typology...). In spite of that, I still think there's something to it. Call it a hunch. I'm thinking that having a better idea of how the Enneagram types manifest in conjunction with the socionics types would give me a better, comparative understanding of the system as a whole. Right now, though, I just curious how the Enneatypes work with ILE, my (supposed) type.

    I'm most interested in how the thinking center types (5, 6, 7) work with ILE, but I'm glad to hear about all 9.

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    This is a topic socionics britannica is working on researching, from having a few conversations with him he's seemed to have overhauled Enneagram a bit making several changes even to the definitions of the triads. His super socionics theory has the sociotype being layered over the enneatype and someother ideas he says have not been fully fledged yet. But to put succintly, his big idea is his Socionics-Enneagram plan, so far he's planning 16*9 profile description looking at how sociotype distorts the enneatype pretty much.

    By the way, the changes his Enneagram research has found changed, the triads to what he calls: IMAGE (1,2,3), OBSEVERVANT(4,5,6) and PRESENCE(7,8,9). Among his first diversions was to stop calling the ''thinking centre'', that, he said the term thinking was bad since it created the illusion that the other triads don't really think which is pretty flawed to be honest, I agree with that view btw. Also the term thinking is used to loosely that it makes these concepts harder to truly grasp. Instead the term thinking has become Observant since it more of accurately describes the connection type 4 5 6 have; he said the reason for dropping 7 from the observant centre is that the don't take a step back and detach much like 4 do's who his in the midst of arguing fits better as observing types than 7. He also linked an article from similar minds that inspired a change of opinion helping to feed more rational light into the enneagram in general, take a look at it, its really good. http://research.similarminds.com/the...-enneagram/807 Also he now treats 1 2 3 as image (heart centres), since they are governed by ideals to say, ie righteousness, belonging/love (don't quite get this) and admiration/status. And ofcourse 7 8 9 are all about the relation to the environment, how one finds themselves in it, 7s explore/stimulation, 8s control/power, 9s balance/harmony (which has nothing to do with being accommodating).

    One thing I'm waiting from socionics britannica is how he'll say the Information Elements are augmented by the triads/enneatypes. I expect classic socionics Se to be ''Se'' affected by enneatype 8. However the marriage of socionics and enneagram seems to raise a lot of questions and don't know how they can all be answered to be honest. I hoping this might catch on with russian socionists too, but one thing that certain is that quadra values are further challenged through reanalysis of the core essence of sociotypes and enneatypes, distortions caused by classification overlap could be clear, like with Beta cognitive types that don't really value 8 assertiveness for the sake of assertiveness. Or mutually Delta cognitive types who struggle to mediate with the pushover values ascribed to their quadra.

    www.facebook.com/SocionicsBritannicaSchool

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    7 ILEs are more likely to be more cerebral than social. They often need constant external stimulation, but not necessarily in the form of people or activities like most enneagram profiles talk about 7s. It can be a book or other ideas they've gleaned and can compare and twist around in their minds until it gets borign and they need something else. Just anything to distract them from introspection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    7 ILEs are more likely to be more cerebral than social. They often need constant external stimulation, but not necessarily in the form of people or activities like most enneagram profiles talk about 7s. It can be a book or other ideas they've gleaned and can compare and twist around in their minds until it gets borign and they need something else. Just anything to distract them from introspection.
    So how would this be different from the cerebral leanings of an ILE 5? Is the difference the search for novelty vs. preparedness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    So how would this be different from the cerebral leanings of an ILE 5? Is the difference the search for novelty vs. preparedness?
    The same as the difference between any 5 and 7, so yes. The types are the same regardless of sociotype. 7s online and in profiles are more often just described as very social, whereas more of the Naranjo texts and things does describe them as being cerebral and possibly the most intellectual of types. I personally don't believe much in "this type is the MOST of THIS", but it just shows how the descriptions of 7s have been warped over the years, when it really just comes down to "doing anything[everything] at all to keep themselves from introverting".

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    The same as the difference between any 5 and 7, so yes. The types are the same regardless of sociotype. 7s online and in profiles are more often just described as very social, whereas more of the Naranjo texts and things does describe them as being cerebral and possibly the most intellectual of types. I personally don't believe much in "this type is the MOST of THIS", but it just shows how the descriptions of 7s have been warped over the years, when it really just comes down to "doing anything[everything] at all to keep themselves from introverting".
    What about a 7 with a 4 fix?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    What about a 7 with a 4 fix?
    That's oddly specific.

    I think this is the sort of thing you might have you figure out for yourself, by reading more theory and also delving internally to see how things apply or interact.

    From my experience, 7's have a tendency to be depressive imo. They can often feel frustrated with life, and particularly at unhealthy levels, feel overwrought with pain that they are ill-equipped to deal with. The idea is that the mechanisms they use to escape pain ignore the problem and often make it worse.

    People I've known with "four fixes" (depends on whether you think tritype is real- I thought it was totally fake, until I realized that I could in fact match up people I knew loosely to tritype descriptions, and then I felt that there may be something to it) have a tendency towards envy and melancholy, yes. But it's not in an obvious way, and your main type (and, to a certain extent, wing) plays a much larger role in who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    From my experience, 7's have a tendency to be depressive imo. They can often feel frustrated with life, and particularly at unhealthy levels, feel overwrought with pain that they are ill-equipped to deal with. The idea is that the mechanisms they use to escape pain ignore the problem and often make it worse.
    This is why I was asking. The description that "7's don't have internal worlds" was confusing me. I've been the unhealthy manic-depressive 7 stereotype before, but I'm not as extroverted, even when I'm healthy, as most 7 profiles describe. I'm still a nerd, as Alpha NTs tend to be.

    The wings for 7 both suck. I can be either a no-nothing impulsive meathead, or a foppish coward. I identify more with the fear of 8's (being thought of as weak), but 7w8s are described as blockheads, which I am not.

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    I've met both the "sleep around be slick while actually being quite nerdy" E7 ILE's and the "I'm just a flaming nerd" type. I think Fox's comment is quite insightful and accurate.

    I find the w8 in 7w8's hot, to be honest. Have never thought of 8's as blockheads; they can be quite smart and pick up on subtle things due to not really trusting people.

    (Nothing compared to 5's, though, which is inevitably hotter for some reason, bastards though they may be. )
    Last edited by lemontrees; 12-08-2013 at 01:23 AM. Reason: I think I meant "though," and not "that"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I've met both the "sleep around be slick while actually being quite nerdy" E7 ILE's and the "I'm just a flaming nerd" type. I think Fox's comment is quite insightful and accurate.

    I find the w8 in 7w8's hot, to be honest. Have never thought of 8's as blockheads; they can be quite smart and pick up on subtle things due to not really trusting people.

    (Nothing compared to 5's, though, which is inevitably hotter for some reason, bastards that they may be. )
    I've tried to be that first 7 you describe before, but...Fi PolR +weak Fe + Introverted subtype and instinctual stacking + random bursts of possible 8/ Se role confrontational behavior = the anti-slick.

    And you hurt me so bad, dual, by saying that the 5 subtype is better. I think I'm going to go brood and have a 7-esque depressive episode now.

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    You'd be surprised about "slick." For instance, once I went to this party with an ILE E7 sp/so friend, of the flaming nerd variety. At some point we were in a group and he was being so awkward and nerdy and elliptical that I went away to talk to other people. An hour later, I come back and he's surrounded by a ring of five women laughing at his jokes. He met his current gf that night (she asked him out immediately after) which was funny to me b/c I had somewhat of a crush on him at the time, although he never noticed.

    Anyway, anyone can be attractive- you just have to be yourself and embody your strengths. Also, I think college is a weird time (noticed from your signature that you're in school still) and I do think people's ideas of what attractive is broaden with time. They learn better what they actually like, too, rather than being affected by ideas of what they might like. In my experience, being attractive often has less direct relationship to being conventionally goodlooking and/or smooth than you would think.

    Instead of going into depressive episode... motivate yourself to integrate towards 5! Haha. J/k. I think that's just a weird personal preference on my part, and one that often kicks me in the ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    Also, I think college is a weird time (noticed from your signature that you're in school still) and I do think people's ideas of what attractive is broaden with time. They learn better what they actually like, too, rather than being affected by ideas of what they might like. In my experience, being attractive often has less direct relationship to being conventionally goodlooking and/or smooth than you would think.
    College is a weird time...it seems like within the first month everybody kind of calcified into these really cliquey groups, and I kind of missed the boat. As a logical intuitive, I've been told pretty much since birth that "college is where you'll come into your own." Now that I'm here, I'm kind of pining for my small town high school, where I was fairly popular, could glide effortlessly between cliques, and had a few SEI-Fe's to back me up when I made a social gaffe...such is life. Plus, the weather sucks here.

    So that's why I'm posting on an internet forum at college on a Saturday night, lol.

    Anyways, I'm getting incredibly far away from the OP's topic. I doubt he'll appreciate that.

    How does the 5 preference screw you over?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    What about a 7 with a 4 fix?
    Are you asking about tritypes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    Are you asking about tritypes?
    I was asking if a 7 with a 4 in its tritype would introspect more often. This was a more general Enneagram question, not so much limited to ILEs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    I was asking if a 7 with a 4 in its tritype would introspect more often. This was a more general Enneagram question, not so much limited to ILEs.
    Tritypes are horseshit. Anything that you consider your "tritype" can be linked back to the original type. It's just people who decided that enneagram wasn't complex enough (because it's not a complex system at all, and that's okay) and tried to make it "better" or make it so that they could be more of a special snowflake. It's a very simple system and can have many different types of people in one type and that's okay. There's no need to try and force enneagram to overcomplicate itself. It's not socionics, and it's not meant to be a relationship or behavior predictor. It is primarily a very individual-focused self-help tool so you can identify your fears and defense echanisms, recognize them within yourself, and work on bettering yourself (also why it is a veerrryyy negative system).

    As for your question about "inner worlds", it's important to take into consideration what is inside these "inner worlds". Socially, I am an introvert. I spend a lot of time in my own head, I do. But it's important to take note of what it is that I'm thinking about when I'm inside my own head. I'm not thinking about myself or my accomplishments or what is wrong with me or my relationships with other people or how much something means to me. Hell, just thinking about thinking about those things makes me nervous. I'm thinking about what's oing on around me. Connections between things. Maybe I'm thinking about a book I just read and what was going on in that, be it fiction or non-fiction. Maybe I'm comparing and contrasting things. Another big things 7s do is make plans for the future. I'm probably thinking about what I'm going to do tonight, next week, next year, or in five years. And then thinking about what I would do if those plans didn't work. Or if a little thing had to change, how would I fix that? I spend a lot of time thinking about the future in some capacity or another.

    Once I exhaust all the things in my head-- ex, thinking about that book has worn out, I've got backup plans A-K and there's no point thinking of anything else
    until something changes, I've gone over all the bones/landmarks in my skeleton three times in a row--, I need to get out and get something else, external, to "play" with, because otherwise I'm left with this void and have no choice but to think about what a terrible person I am, over-analyze relationships, or think about this thing that happened five years ago where I said this but I meant that, etc. I need to go out and be around people, read a book, do something to give me something else to mentally play with for a while.

    4s, however, are very at home with thinking about themselves and their relations to things and delving into expression of their own individuality. That which makes 7s uncomfortable and flighty makes 4s feel at home and at peace. They enjoy sitting and thinking about things related to themselves and how they relate to others in the same way that 7s enjoy searching for the novel and avoid that part of their mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    Another big things 7s do is make plans for the future. I'm probably thinking about what I'm going to do tonight, next week, next year, or in five years.
    .
    Your sig says you're a 3?

    Also how are you a Fi SLE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Your sig says you're a 3?

    Also how are you a Fi SLE?
    ILE-Ne 7 is more correct

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    College is a weird time...it seems like within the first month everybody kind of calcified into these really cliquey groups, and I kind of missed the boat. As a logical intuitive, I've been told pretty much since birth that "college is where you'll come into your own." Now that I'm here, I'm kind of pining for my small town high school, where I was fairly popular, could glide effortlessly between cliques, and had a few SEI-Fe's to back me up when I made a social gaffe...such is life. Plus, the weather sucks here.

    So that's why I'm posting on an internet forum at college on a Saturday night, lol.

    Anyways, I'm getting incredibly far away from the OP's topic. I doubt he'll appreciate that.

    How does the 5 preference screw you over?
    Mm yeah. It's a transitional stage of life and an odd age to be at, as well. But I guess it's things like growth (and its attendant pains) that makes life interesting, I guess. If you're in your first year though, things may change drastically in the months or years to come. Hopefully you find your crowd, soon, with a few SEI-Fe's (amusing though painfully useless creatures they may be), and even if not, you'll surely learn something from all this and have great adventures in other realms.

    I find 5's difficult to enter or maintain relationships with. But so am I, I guess. I sometimes forget how much trouble I give other people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoxOnStilts View Post
    Tritypes are horseshit.
    I strongly approve.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ILE's can be 3's as well

    They tend to be more narcissistic and achievement oriented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    ILE's can be 3's as well

    They tend to be more narcissistic and achievement oriented.
    I typed as 4w5sp and I identified with the description. Shouldn't that be unlikely for a Ile?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    I typed as 4w5sp and I identified with the description. Shouldn't that be unlikely for a Ile?
    yea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    I typed as 4w5sp and I identified with the description. Shouldn't that be unlikely for a Ile?
    I'm not sure you're a 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I'm not sure you're a 4.
    I liked the description

    it was much better than the 9sx description and somewhat better as the other runner up (tied with the 9sx) 5sx which only hit home on some points.

    dunno

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