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Thread: What NI and NE actually are..... ( to me anyway)

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    Default What NI and NE actually are..... ( to me anyway)

    I think in the soconics community here has a misconception of the "Intuitive" functions- well more Ni then Ne anyway. Ni is not necessarily about time and sequencing or imagining the future- although it may be manifestations of it. Ne is also more than just thinking of possibilities

    So I how actually view these is pretty simple- If Se is about objective(external) sensory perception ( for example, I saw that dog run, I heard this person say, I tasted this, I smelt etc) Ne is about the external possibilities of the real world- For example, what could happen on Thursday? Or "I wonder these crates could be arranged" this way" A Se user to me is very connected to physical, real world and a Ne user is connected his or her imagination of the real world.

    Think of Ne like Sims- their mind is wondering about how this world could be customizable , or what could happen in the real world. They ignore the internal possibilities( what goes on inside their heads) That is Ni. Ni is simply internal imagery(not exactly thinking of the future) of what images pop in their (and our) head vs. Ne which the possibilities of the external environment. So it's Similar to Se in the sense that it is outerworld focused but focuses on sensing where Ne focused on chasing after external images.

    Since Si is internal bodily sensations and ignores the outer world in favor of their own sensations and sensory perceptions, Ni is focused on your imagination and ignores the external possibilities in favor of basically day dreaming from their own mind. Ne will chase after a artifact wondering where it could lead them Ni will chase after their own imagination of the artifact ( the image in their mind)

    Oh and another thing I view the "functions" as a continuum instead of complete separate things. That's why they can appear similar (Fe and Fi) Bascially, if your attitude towards something is more external (For example, Ne) your an Ne dom. If it's internal (from you) then Ni dom

    Im going to fix this....... sigh
    Last edited by nousername123; 12-05-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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    I'm not so sure about your understanding of Ni, Alice.

    'The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday – but never jam to-day.'
    'It MUST come sometimes to "jam to-day,"' Alice objected.
    'No, it can't,' said the Queen. 'It's jam every OTHER day: to-day isn't any OTHER day, you know.'
    'I don't understand you,' said Alice. 'It's dreadfully confusing!'
    'That's the effect of living backwards,' the Queen said kindly: 'it always makes one a little giddy at first--'
    'Living backwards!' Alice repeated in great astonishment. 'I never heard of such a thing!'
    '--but there's one great advantage in it, that one's memory works both ways.'
    'I'm sure MINE only works one way,' Alice remarked. 'I can't remember things before they happen.'
    'It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,' the Queen remarked.

    hehe
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    I'm not so sure about your understanding of Ni, Alice.

    'The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday – but never jam to-day.'
    'It MUST come sometimes to "jam to-day,"' Alice objected.
    'No, it can't,' said the Queen. 'It's jam every OTHER day: to-day isn't any OTHER day, you know.'
    'I don't understand you,' said Alice. 'It's dreadfully confusing!'
    'That's the effect of living backwards,' the Queen said kindly: 'it always makes one a little giddy at first--'
    'Living backwards!' Alice repeated in great astonishment. 'I never heard of such a thing!'
    '--but there's one great advantage in it, that one's memory works both ways.'
    'I'm sure MINE only works one way,' Alice remarked. 'I can't remember things before they happen.'
    'It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards,' the Queen remarked.

    hehe
    WTF! Im not Alice lol

    The Queen must be NE dom. Im kinda like Alice lolz Im not sure of my type but Im ego block for sure
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    Marshmallow Foru-m chriscorey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nousername123 View Post
    WTF! Im not Alice lol

    The Queen must be NE dom. Im kinda like Alice lolz Im not sure of my type but Im ego block for sure
    The queen? Hmmm..I never thought of her type because fictional characters can be a bit 2-dimensional. This is one of Carl Jung's favorite poems. He used it when talking about synchronicity and introverted intuition.
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscorey View Post
    The queen? Hmmm..I never thought of her type because fictional characters can be a bit 2-dimensional. This is one of Carl Jung's favorite poems. He used it when talking about synchronicity and introverted intuition.

    Well she seemed Ne "'The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday – but never jam to-day.' and Alice seemed all disoriented so Ni seems likley. As a Ni ego user Im the same way.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by nousername123 View Post
    Well she seemed Ne "'The rule is, jam to-morrow and jam yesterday – but never jam to-day.' and Alice seemed all disoriented so Ni seems likley. As a Ni ego user Im the same way.....
    Lol the white queen describing Ni can be Ne if you wish. I admittedly don't know enough about the character. And of course Alice is disoriented! She's in WONDERland
    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nousername123 View Post
    I think in the soconics community here has a misconception of the "Intuitive" functions- well more Ni then Ne anyway. Ni is not necessarily about time and sequencing or imagining the future- although it may be manifestations of it. Ne is also more than just thinking of possibilities

    So I how actually view these is pretty simple- If Se is about objective(external) sensory perception ( for example, I saw that dog run, I heard this person say, I tasted this, I smelt etc) Ne is about the external possibilities of the real world- For example, what could happen on Thursday? Or "I wonder these crates could be arranged" this way" A Se user to me is very connected to physical, real world and a Ne user is connected his or her imagination of the real world.

    Think of Ne like Sims- their mind is wondering about how this world could be customizable , or what could happen in the real world. They ignore the internal possibilities( what goes on inside their heads) That is Ni. Ni is simply internal imagery(not exactly thinking of the future) of what images pop in their (and our) head vs. Ne which the possibilities of the external environment. So it's Similar to Se in the sense that it is outerworld focused but focuses on sensing where Ne focused on chasing after external images.

    Since Si is internal bodily sensations and ignores the outer world in favor of their own sensations and sensory perceptions, Ni is focused on your imagination and ignores the external possibilities in favor of basically day dreaming from their own mind. Ne will chase after a artifact wondering where it could lead them Ni will chase after their own imagination of the artifact ( the image in their mind)

    Oh and another thing I view the "functions" as a continuum instead of complete separate things. That's why they can appear similar (Fe and Fi) Bascially, if your attitude towards something is more external (For example, Ne) your an Ne dom. If it's internal (from you) then Ni dom

    All I got to say..........
    isn't really sequencing imo, I think sequencing in the material sense is more or less with , where as and work on sequencing mentally.

    is about internal visions, I wouldn't call it possibilities because it is more singular and personal, all the introverted functions are more singular and personal. wants because it has the ability of actualizing this vision(somewhat at least). in a sense is also called meaning sometimes, but it needs material capabilities to actualize it.

    perceives the possibilities, but it lacks a a road to go down, which is where comes in. informs of a pleasant or practical road to follow.

    Also functions are more than what is associated with them, it is simply because internal bodily sensations relates to oneself subjectively and one/each self sense this experience subjectively that it relates to , however when such a mental process is focused on an animal, a machine, a inanimate object, the mental process can do things which is not so easily described. Individuals do not merely focus their egos and mental capability in the strictly appropriate fashion, these mental process color all information an individual processes sometimes to novel invention, other times to delusion.

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    @nousername123 You reject superb oversimplification and instead offer something that is outright wrong.
    Both Ni and Ne are internal/implicit in socionics. They address some abstract qualities that know no bounds of the conventional objects in reality. Ne is very much about possibilities internal to anything. The difference is that in Ne the abstract qualities are defined/contained(objects) and are in limited number to then be flipped around and recombined to find interesting possibilities, when in Ni they are fields interaction of which plays out passively. That is more inclusive, takes more time and is therefore singular projection - one likely result following from particular circumstances. Not search tree of what is the range of what is technically possible for particular collection of whatever irrespective of what is actually likely to happen all circumstances considered.

    Also, I am sorry to inform that Ni exists to relate to reality as much as other functions.
    Last edited by Esaman; 12-04-2013 at 11:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    isn't really sequencing imo, I think sequencing in the material sense is more or less with , where as and work on sequencing mentally.

    is about internal visions, I wouldn't call it possibilities because it is more singular and personal, all the introverted functions are more singular and personal. wants because it has the ability of actualizing this vision(somewhat at least). in a sense is also called meaning sometimes, but it needs material capabilities to actualize it.

    perceives the possibilities, but it lacks a a road to go down, which is where comes in. informs of a pleasant or practical road to follow.

    Also functions are more than what is associated with them, it is simply because internal bodily sensations relates to oneself subjectively and one/each self sense this experience subjectively that it relates to , however when such a mental process is focused on an animal, a machine, a inanimate object, the mental process can do things which is not so easily described. Individuals do not merely focus their egos and mental capability in the strictly appropriate fashion, these mental process color all information an individual processes sometimes to novel invention, other times to delusion.
    What you said about NI about it being internal visions is more for doms (not necessarily Ni egos) doms just use their powers of imagination- to imagine visions.

    I was describing more typical Ni behavior of everybody since we all have each functions within ourselves

    I agree and sort get what your saying though
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    :
    perceives the possibilities, but it lacks a a road to go down, which is where comes in. informs of a pleasant or practical road to follow.
    I would say that Ne has overload of roads and Si is what is capable of contextualizing, evaluating, selecting and actually following.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    @nousername123 You reject superb oversimplification and instead offer something that is outright wrong.
    Both Ni and Ne are internal/implicit in socionics. They address some abstract qualities that know no bounds of the conventional objects in reality. Ne is very much about possibilities internal to anything. The difference is that in Ne the abstract qualities are defined/contained(objects) and are in limited number to then be flipped around and recombined to find interesting possibilities, when in Ni they are fields interaction of which is plays out passively. That is more inclusive, takes more time and is therefore singular projection - one likely possibility following from particular circumstances. Not search tree of what is the range of what is technically possible for particular collection of whatever irrespective of what is going actually likely to happen circumstances considered.

    Also, I am sorry to inform that Ni exist to relate to reality as well as other functions.
    That's great. I just find my explanation to make more sense imo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    I would say that Ne has overload of roads and Si is what is capable of contextualizing, evaluating, selecting and actually following.
    Okay, maybe this I agree with......
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    Here's my conceptualization of Ne and Ni thought patterns.

    Ni looks to the past to see the future. It's one-dimensional, bidirectional. Hence "visions".

    Ne is a complex web of thoughts that may or may not be interconnected. That is why ideas and possibilities can be generated from seemingly nowhere. That's also why Ne egos can seem really scattered. Clumsiness is also a side effect of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    @nousername123 You reject superb oversimplification and instead offer something that is outright wrong.
    Both Ni and Ne are internal/implicit in socionics. They address some abstract qualities that know no bounds of the conventional objects in reality. Ne is very much about possibilities internal to anything. The difference is that in Ne the abstract qualities are defined/contained(objects) and are in limited number to then be flipped around and recombined to find interesting possibilities, when in Ni they are fields interaction of which plays out passively. That is more inclusive, takes more time and is therefore singular projection - one likely result following from particular circumstances. Not search tree of what is the range of what is technically possible for particular collection of whatever irrespective of what is actually likely to happen all circumstances considered.

    Also, I am sorry to inform that Ni exists to relate to reality as much as other functions.
    Ugh... Im not sure if correct on the object vs. field stuff

    Extroversion- objects- an object or thing ( a noun basically for simplification)
    Introversion- fields - a relation to an object or thing
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    I did say Ne addresses objects and what kind - abstract qualities that are contained and handled somewhat independently on their own right- like an object.
    I think Ni is actually more likely to be handling conventional objects - people, things thanks to its connection to Se, but it would be then be dissolving them in to fields of interaction and seeing what those will result to.
    Ne will grabs/defines qualities and see significance - possibility they contain (in some circumstances you are actively to create or avoid) . That explains passive vs involved attitudes of Ni vs Ne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    @nousername123 You reject superb oversimplification and instead offer something that is outright wrong.
    Both Ni and Ne are internal/implicit in socionics. They address some abstract qualities that know no bounds of the conventional objects in reality. Ne is very much about possibilities internal to anything. The difference is that in Ne the abstract qualities are defined/contained(objects) and are in limited number to then be flipped around and recombined to find interesting possibilities, when in Ni they are fields interaction of which plays out passively. That is more inclusive, takes more time and is therefore singular projection - one likely result following from particular circumstances. Not search tree of what is the range of what is technically possible for particular collection of whatever irrespective of what is actually likely to happen all circumstances considered.

    Also, I am sorry to inform that Ni exists to relate to reality as much as other functions.
    woah settle down

    the OP actually made me make sense of Ni

    to this day I don't know what Ne/Ni is but i get the aggressor/victim dynamic in that Ni leads me down a certain path

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Here's my conceptualization of Ne and Ni thought patterns.Ni looks to the past to see the future. It's one-dimensional, bidirectional. Hence "visions".Ne is a complex web of thoughts that may or may not be interconnected. That is why ideas and possibilities can be generated from seemingly nowhere. That's also why Ne egos can seem really scattered. Clumsiness is also a side effect of this.
    Your approach here is disturbing and infantile.

    " your function is so simple it's just blah blah amirite? My function is a quite more complex and substantial ( let me take more time describing it) but don't worry it's not perfect cuz it also makes me a clutz LULZ "

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Here's my conceptualization of Ne and Ni thought patterns.

    Ni looks to the past to see the future. It's one-dimensional, bidirectional. Hence "visions".

    Ne is a complex web of thoughts that may or may not be interconnected. That is why ideas and possibilities can be generated from seemingly nowhere. That's also why Ne egos can seem really scattered. Clumsiness is also a side effect of this.
    The problem I have about Ne vs. Ni being basically (visions vs possibilities) is that this is subjective. For example, what is a vision? Visions also contain elements that have possibilities and ideas and scattered thoughts also can have visions. I know I said that that I view each Jungian trait as a continuum but the boundaries are really too fuzzy.

    Where is my interpretation, the focus is pretty much equal- you can have both visions and possibilities The only difference is that Ne comes from the external world and Ni comes from your imagination
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    Quote Originally Posted by nousername123 View Post
    The problem I have about Ne vs. Ni being basically (visions vs possibilities) is that this is subjective. For example, what is a vision? Visions also contain elements that have possibilities and ideas and scattered thoughts also can have visions. I know I said that that I view each Jungian trait as a continuum but the boundaries are really too fuzzy.

    Where is my interpretation, the focus is pretty much equal- you can have both visions and possibilities The only difference is that Ne comes from the external world and Ni comes from your imagination
    Visions are self generated and determined, there is no "it could be like this other way". Clear or unclear, the experience is relatively uninfluenced by outside factors.

    Possibilities are influence by outside factor, one possibility becomes another due to a myriad of outside variables. "It could be something else"

    This is why leading types have ignoring, because the external variables make any vision shifting and changing.

    leading have ignoring because external variables which shift the possibility is ignored.

    IMO Intuition is rooted in the same thing, which is a novel unmaterialized/unexperienced novel construct of the mind based on some cognition/contemplation/etc. You never sensed it, but it might be interesting, true, fantastic, conceptual and the myriad of other words give to this mental process as well as to describe it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Visions are self generated and determined, there is no "it could be like this other way". Clear or unclear, the experience is relatively uninfluenced by outside factors.

    Possibilities are influence by outside factor, one possibility becomes another due to a myriad of outside variables. "It could be something else"

    This is why leading types have ignoring, because the external variables make any vision shifting and changing.

    leading have ignoring because external variables which shift the possibility is ignored.


    IMO Intuition is rooted in the same thing, which is a novel unmaterialized/unexperienced novel construct of the mind based on some cognition/contemplation/etc. You never sensed it, but it might be interesting, true, fantastic, conceptual and the myriad of other words give to this mental process as well as to describe it.
    That makes sense. But the stuff that I bolded could you go into more detail
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    Quote Originally Posted by nousername123 View Post
    That makes sense. But the stuff that I bolded could you go into more detail
    The way I conceptualize this is that intuition, both types share the same mental space, and when one takes priority, it crowds out the others. One type of Intuition is always stronger than another type of intuition within an individual and when the stronger function asserts itself, the other function gets crowded out. I only really talked about leading types and leading types but this occurs in all types.

    In socionics by definition, functions are linked somehow. Strong Intution = Strong and , this seems true in practice as well and it could very well be that these functions occupy a similar mental domain.

    I'm not sure what more details you would like as I am unsure where to take this. ^_^ My ... hah

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    Ni = having your legs permanently splayed open,
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    Your post is interesting, but I I'm Ni-ego and I don't think in images really. Not naturally. I think people who are all 'I have a photographic memory!' might be lying or looking for attention cause it reeks too much of "I'm The Only Magical and Powerful One In The Village" trope.

    I think humans naturally can think more in images by executing effort, but we don't organically really think that way. In fact, humans are more adept at insight (not imagery) - at seeing what's beyond an image more than accepting images in our brain, but I think it makes everybody happy when those internal ideals and images 'click' and become compatible with one another.

    If we weren't more insightful than image-based, we'd all be dead by Brad Pit (gay men and straight women) or Scarlet Johanson (straight men and lesbians) by now. They would just gaslight us into dumpsters and we'd believe whatever crap they said to our faces no matter how much bullshit it was you know? Hahaha. Not saying that Brad Pit or Scarlet do that, I know they are loveable people as well as being attractive, but the power to see through images still seems more powerful than the ability to simply accept them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    Your approach here is disturbing and infantile.

    " your function is so simple it's just blah blah amirite? My function is a quite more complex and substantial ( let me take more time describing it) but don't worry it's not perfect cuz it also makes me a clutz LULZ "
    Ummm, what's infantile and immature is how you interpreted what i said. My intention was not at all to belittle your dominant function nor to brag about my own. It's stupid to think of one function being better than another. C'mon now, it's not a competition! All functions serve a crucial importance in society and each person has their dual whose strengths they need.

    It's to be expected that I have a deeper understanding of my own dominant function. My understanding of Ni is quite limited, hence the one-liner about it. So if you have more nuances to share about your dominant function, please do so. I would like to deepen my understanding of it.

    OMG, come on people!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nousername123 View Post
    The problem I have about Ne vs. Ni being basically (visions vs possibilities) is that this is subjective. For example, what is a vision? Visions also contain elements that have possibilities and ideas and scattered thoughts also can have visions. I know I said that that I view each Jungian trait as a continuum but the boundaries are really too fuzzy.

    Where is my interpretation, the focus is pretty much equal- you can have both visions and possibilities The only difference is that Ne comes from the external world and Ni comes from your imagination
    I dont disagree with your conceptualizations. To clarify my own, i see Ni as past into future, and Ne as a web, more so than "visions" vs "possibilities". I guess it's hard to use terms like the latter, because a vision can be understood in many different ways, and you're right, i mean, anyone can envision things, that's not what I meant by Ni-driven "visions" anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by truck View Post
    Your post is interesting, but I I'm Ni-ego and I don't think in images really. Not naturally. I think people who are all 'I have a photographic memory!' might be lying or looking for attention cause it reeks too much of "I'm The Only Magical and Powerful One In The Village" trope.

    I think humans naturally can think more in images by executing effort, but we don't organically really think that way. In fact, humans are more adept at insight (not imagery) - at seeing what's beyond an image more than accepting images in our brain, but I think it makes everybody happy when those internal ideals and images 'click' and become compatible with one another.

    If we weren't more insightful than image-based, we'd all be dead by Brad Pit (gay men and straight women) or Scarlet Johanson (straight men and lesbians) by now. They would just gaslight us into dumpsters and we'd believe whatever crap they said to our faces no matter how much bullshit it was you know? Hahaha. Not saying that Brad Pit or Scarlet do that, I know they are loveable people as well as being attractive, but the power to see through images still seems more powerful than the ability to simply accept them.


    Lolz at your paragraph....
    Last edited by nousername123; 12-07-2013 at 01:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I dont disagree with your conceptualizations. To clarify my own, i see Ni as past into future, and Ne as a web, more so than "visions" vs "possibilities". I guess it's hard to use terms like the latter, because a vision can be understood in many different ways, and you're right, i mean, anyone can envision things, that's not what I meant by Ni-driven "visions" anyway.
    I see....... so...

    Ni is like a path and is dynamic it sees the connection between things.
    Ne is like a mind map that keeps adding more its static so it always forgets the images it sees but working with Ni at times will see connections
    Last edited by nousername123; 12-07-2013 at 01:21 AM.
    Never make a promise when your happy, a decision when your angry

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nousername123 View Post
    I see....... so...

    Ni is like a path and is dynamic it sees the connection between things.
    Ne is like a mind map that keeps adding more its static so it always forgets the images it sees but working with Ni at times will see connections
    Thanks! that's exactly what i was trying to convey..
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    It's to be expected that I have a deeper understanding of my own dominant function. My understanding of Ni is quite limited, hence the one-liner about it. So if you have more nuances to share about your dominant function, please do so. I would like to deepen my understanding of it.
    Yeah. That's what this thread is about.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Ummm, what's infantile and immature is how you interpreted what i said. My intention was not at all to belittle your dominant function nor to brag about my own. It's stupid to think of one function being better than another. C'mon now, it's not a competition! All functions serve a crucial importance in society and each person has their dual whose strengths they need.
    And yet, you try to imply the opposite of this in many of your posts. This is just the first time I thought I'd call you out on it. You even tried to tell me that I must be IEE in my post about yoga teachers, bc I seem to appreciate/understand and .

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    Yeah. That's what this thread is about.



    And yet, you try to imply the opposite of this in many of your posts. This is just the first time I thought I'd call you out on it. You even tried to tell me that I must be IEE in my post about yoga teachers, bc I seem to appreciate/understand and .
    ummm... if an appreciation for Si and Te came out in your yoga teacher post, then why wouldn't I suggest you could be IEE? How is that me saying IEEs are superior? I simply pointed out what is (or what came across to me at the time). IEIs appreciate Se and Ti... how does my saying so downgrade non-IEEs or upgrade IEEs?

    I'm sorry but something weird is going on in your head sssony... seems like you are misconstruing or reading too much into what I write.

    so, I apologize for my posts irking you so much behind the scenes... i had no idea! I'm glad I have a chance to explain now, so you can maybe feel a little less angry...
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    .................
    Last edited by nousername123; 12-07-2013 at 04:22 PM.
    Never make a promise when your happy, a decision when your angry

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    ILE - ENTp 1981slater's Avatar
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    Ne: perceive what is possible
    Ni: perceive what people want or are about to do and harness any situation without trying to interfere with them
    ILE "Searcher"
    Socionics: ENTp
    DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
    Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
    MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
    Astrological sign: Aquarius

    To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.

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    ni=probabilities, vertical axis vortex kaleidoscope past to future
    Ne=possibilities, horizontal web axis. Some Ne products die along the way, ther seemingly chaotic ideas or products influence the direction of what is absorbed into the changing vortex

    I'm not explaining it well. It's more a mental picture I have.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Ne: perceive what is possible
    just possible...not impossible, as well?

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