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Thread: How does one identify extroverted ethics in their own ego block?

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    Default How does one identify extroverted ethics in their own ego block?

    Hey everyone,

    I've been wrestling with understanding the functions lately and would like to know, how does one identify one's own ego function with certainty?

    I was recently introduced to socionics when an acquaintance of mine typed me as a Myers-Briggs INTP and I did a few thousand google searches to find out what exactly that meant. Don't get me wrong, I respect this individual's judgement since he is a certified practitioner but as I read more and more on INTPs and LIIs I found that I didn't entirely relate to these grand descriptions of architects or pure, cold, analytical thinkers.

    One of his major reasons for saying INTP was that I held a high honours degree in philosophy and psychology. At the time I thought nothing of it and believed him completely, however now I also believe he may have assumed that I enjoyed these subjects and that they came easily to me. Little did he know I hated some of those classes and found them completely pointless. You'd think if I had or in the ego block I would enjoy it when lectures took a two hour detour into discussing the logic behind proper linguistic form or how a passage from Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals can mean 20 different things. These are things I can do well and enjoy lightly in passing, but always seem to come at the cost of high amounts of stress when I need to produce something substantial. For our mandatory logic classes I finished with a grade of 86, but man! Some of those problems made me lose hair and definitely did not leave me feeling more energized. I have a feeling this practitioner made the mistake of confusing intelligence with cognitive preference. The one thought that got me through university was "I'm not letting these 4 years be a waste of time and my parent's money".

    I realize functions don't exactly indicate talent or interest but I find this to be a huge red flag in being able to come to terms with LII as my type, especially since I'd like to use socionics to better understand my own talents and have more fulfilling relationships.

    I've looked at a few things including the Reinin dichotomies and I believe I am probably an alpha type with beta being my second best guess. I am almost certain impacts my personality but I can't be sure in what way or in what position (if it resides in the ego or super-id block for instance). I am highly aware of the emotional environment and can easily guess what other people are feeling or thinking when I look around the room but I also do lack confidence in my ability to affect change if someone feels down, depressed, or like an outsider. I am very friendly with everyone (almost detrimentally so) and hate it when I see someone treated like crap (though don't always express this hate). Is it likely that an individual with in the ego block might be aware of these problems but lack the confidence or skill to make a change? Is it possible my concerns with my university experience have nothing to do with cognitive preference and I still may be an LII? How do you self identify your preferences?

    I appreciate any and all thoughts you might have regarding this issue and am willing to give more information if you ask. I'm not really certain about any of it and figure I might just be better off forgetting about typology

    Thanks all for reading and I wish you well!

    (I'm male and 24 if it helps to know this)

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    You might be IEI or EII from the way you write. MBTI has a lot of biases and things which aren't compatible with socionics, especially with introverts.

    LII's can be pretty gregarious and friendly individuals however. How experienced is your friend as a MBTI practitioner?

    As you seem philosophically experienced, you may want to read Jung's work on Extroverted Feeling, as this is more close to Socionics Extroverted Ethics.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Types-by-Jung

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    Thanks for the response hkkmr and yes I've noticed quite a few differences myself between the systems. So far I much prefer the clarity and consistency I see in socionics.

    The practitioner I assume has at least a few year's experience though he never mentioned how long he had been doing it for. It sort of came up in conversation when my buddy and I mentioned we were done school and had a conversation along the lines of "Well, now what do we do?". He asked us if we knew about the MBTI and it went from there.

    I did mention I wasn't exactly energized reading philosophy before you linked Jung's Psychological Types but I still very much appreciate the help I will dive into the entire thing in the effort of self discovery (I actually have the text leftover from one of my classes)

    So far I have read up to and completed the extraverted feeling section and also find myself wondering if it might be possible I'm an extravert. I found this particular passage ironic considering how I was introduced to the MBTI in the first place (ie, while not knowing where to go in life)

    "But the catastrophic solution may also be subjective, i.e. in the form of a nervous collapse. Such a solution always comes about as a result of the unconscious counterinfluence, which can ultimately paralyse conscious action. In which case the claims of the unconscious force themselves categorically upon consciousness, thus creating a calamitous cleavage which generally reveals itself in two ways: either the subject no longer knows what he really wants and nothing any longer interests him"

    Reminds me a lot from that scene from Fight Club...

    Tyler: So I graduate, I call him up long distance, I say "Dad, now what?" He says, "Get a job."
    Narrator: Same here.
    Tyler: Now I'm 25, make my yearly call again. I say Dad, "Now what?" He says, "I don't know, get married."
    Narrator: I can't get married, I'm a 30 year old boy.


    There was another interesting passage in the Feeling section about not being able to think thoughts that went against feeling. I understand this conceptually but how would this even look?

    "but her thinking is never sui generis; it is, in fact, an Epimethean appendage to her feeling. What she cannot feel, she cannot consciously think. 'But I can't think what I don't feel', such a type said to me once in indignant tones. As far as feeling permits, she can think very well, but every conclusion, however logical, that might lead to a disturbance of feeling is rejected from the outset. It is simply not thought."

    I do however relate to a later passage where apparently the feeling judgement can quickly change based on the situation. This leads to the observer not being able to take the extraverted feeler seriously. Only my close family has the courage to confront me on this but I am very often called "whishy-washy" or "full of it" when I apparently "agree with everyone's position". It isn't as if I agree for the sake of agreeing (unless maybe I want to dismiss the conversation politely). I usually can see the value in whatever is being presented, on both sides.

    I will also have to look into EII, I doubt I possess the grandness that is introverted intution but will cover IEI after I get through Jung.

    Thanks again and feel free to drop any other good sources you may know.

    Looking forward to reading other opinions as well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    I... figure I might just be better off forgetting about typology
    You are correct!

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    That said, since you're attuned to other's feelings/inner sentiments as you've described, you're probably ethical. You're definitely ethical if you think about these things a lot and find that you're usually correct. However, I find it unlikely that someone you know in real life would type you as INTP if you were Fe dominant, so Fe creative or Fi ego is more likely.

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    Hi @megapol I have no doubts that you are the same type as myself as I find your writing incredibly easy to read, understand and relate to.
    I also have been typed by a Myers Briggs certified practitioner who is a friend of mine as an INTP.
    Though like yourself think that perhaps in Socionics another IN type may in fact fit better.

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    never met a Fe type that said "how does one".

    feelings aren't that hard to understand and relate to; thats just a thing women say to claim compensatory superiority in a vacuous & intractable area after claiming it in provable ones failed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    You are correct!
    Appreciate the honesty and I expected I wouldn't be the only one who couldn't be certain of their type . For the sake of the typing process, when I first read this I thought "Is he saying that I personally (after having read my posts) should stay away from the subject because maybe I'm incapable of understanding it?" I realized how silly this was after I read your second post and noticed you were still wrestling with your own type. I also for some reason had a memory come up from the "recent posts" news feed last night where I remember "Jack Nicholson" mentioning the system was flawed or some such thing (though I didn't fully recall because of not actually reading the post). I also didn't realize you were a woman, though I blame "Jack Nicholson" for that

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    That said, since you're attuned to other's feelings/inner sentiments as you've described, you're probably ethical. You're definitely ethical if you think about these things a lot and find that you're usually correct. However, I find it unlikely that someone you know in real life would type you as INTP if you were Fe dominant, so Fe creative or Fi ego is more likely.
    Yeah it would be an interesting exercise to find out how often that "attunement" I think I have is correct. I can tell you right now that I often can misunderstand people (as described by my first reaction above). The most recent event that comes to mind is when I was helping my friend deliver a few dozen bundles of wood. I remember standing outside of the delivery truck waiting for my friend to get there so we could start off. The driver, who was waiting for us and who I had already introduced myself to, said to me "There are a lot of distractions around here." I almost immediately responded "Yeah sh*t you're right, I'm wasting time!" I hopped on the truck and started taking off the bundles myself thinking he must've been in a rush or something. I told my friend this story on our ride back, mentioning if he was in such a rush he must've been a huge a**hole or had a company regulation stopping him from helping. My friend said "Well, did you think maybe he was referring to all the hot women around when he mentioned the distractions?"

    -.- lmao

    I also have an SLI friend (who types himself as such) who will every so often get into these strange and grumpy moods. I can't sit still when he is one of them and I must bother the hell out of him when I ask him 1000 times what the matter is. I remember meeting up with him one night for a movie and having him act as if a cloud was over him. Apparently no one else noticed what was wrong that night, but he just wasn't being himself. Eventually when I jokingly said I'll have to call up your girlfriend and make sure she gives you some tonight and he said "Ya we broke up." Is it really possible that my friends couldn't notice that? Or maybe they just didn't care?

    I'm not a very emotional guy in fact I rarely express them. Most commonly I express warmth and understanding (which as I understand it resembles more ). This is why I am averse to the idea of being an ethical type and am curious if this emotional expression is a necessity of having ethics in the ego.

    I also agree that the practitioner's judgement shouldn't be completely dismissed but as I mentioned he was just an acquaintance who had no more than a few hours of interaction with me that day. Many factors could have off put his assessment in retrospect. He typed my friend as an ESTJ which my friend agrees with, he made the joke his colleagues called him "a Driver driver driver driver driver Analytical" when they did the DiSC/Social style assessments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKP View Post
    Hi @megapol I have no doubts that you are the same type as myself as I find your writing incredibly easy to read, understand and relate to.
    I also have been typed by a Myers Briggs certified practitioner who is a friend of mine as an INTP.
    Though like yourself think that perhaps in Socionics another IN type may in fact fit better.
    I find my own reading hard to digest so that surprises me

    I couldn't find your sociotype, what do you consider yourself? Or are you still figuring that out / hope this thread may shed some light for you? If so you are welcome to comment!

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    never met a Fe type that said "how does one".

    feelings aren't that hard to understand and relate to; thats just a thing women say to claim compensatory superiority in a vacuous & intractable area after claiming it in provable ones failed.
    Thanks for that observation labcoat lol. I've always had a difficult time with my writing and sometimes make the mistake of sounding overly formal. I think there is a lot of truth in what you say and it could be I am overestimating my understanding of feelings in comparison to the belief an LII would have little to no skill in this area

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    Only my close family has the courage to confront me on this but I am very often called "whishy-washy" or "full of it" when I apparently "agree with everyone's position". It isn't as if I agree for the sake of agreeing (unless maybe I want to dismiss the conversation politely). I usually can see the value in whatever is being presented, on both sides.
    This is really all that I need to conclude that you are Delta NF, more specifically EII. I am still leaving the door open for the possibility that you could be IEE if you do find it to be a better fit.

    And no, an ethical type does not need to be emotionally expressive. Or rather, this is usually associated with .

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    Thanks for that observation labcoat lol. I've always had a difficult time with my writing and sometimes make the mistake of sounding overly formal. I think there is a lot of truth in what you say and it could be I am overestimating my understanding of feelings in comparison to the belief an LII would have little to no skill in this area
    not really. TiNe is all about figuring things out. you can use it on anything. the Ne interfaces with psychological subjects quite well. and ethical functions are both central to an INTj's deepest motivations (in Fe's case) and a familiar fall-back strategy (Fi role).

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    I find my own reading hard to digest so that surprises me

    I couldn't find your sociotype, what do you consider yourself? Or are you still figuring that out / hope this thread may shed some light for you? If so you are welcome to comment!
    Yes, your thread could indeed shed some light towards my own type :-)

    Like yourself I mostly relate to the quadra descriptions of Alpha in particular the NT's followed by Beta descriptions.
    At times I have wondered if I am INFx over INTx and in fact had INFj down as my type for some time in the past. However when I compare myself to other INFj's here often there seems a disconectedness.

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    A guy I know who I think is EII (and who is most certainly ethical and introverted) has those moments you described where he misunderstands what someone meant by what they said or misunderstands entire situations. I think it's a combination of weak Te and being in his own little world.

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    I ignore Fe in that I don't sit there and try to figure someone out in terms of what cues and emotional reactions they give off.

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    I think taking a look at your overall lifestyle is usually good enough. Maybe this is easier for extroverts. I identify my ego block because my brain is always playing catch up with my gut, and I also could take a look at all of my objective accomplishments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inguz View Post
    This is really all that I need to conclude that you are Delta NF, more specifically EII. I am still leaving the door open for the possibility that you could be IEE if you do find it to be a better fit.

    And no, an ethical type does not need to be emotionally expressive. Or rather, this is usually associated with .
    Thanks Inguz, I was just going over some more Jung and this article "Socionics Information Elements: Descriptions by Functions" http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-by-Functions to round out my understanding.

    I am inclined to agree you (and others) might be on the right track with EII since I find it hard to reconcile with many aspects I've read about and Jung's Introverted Thinking Type.

    "This thinking easily loses itself in the immense truth of the subjective factor. It creates theories for the sake of theories, apparently with a view to real or at least possible facts, yet always with a distinct tendency to go over from the world of ideas into mere imagery. Accordingly many intuitions of possibilities appear on the scene, none of which however achieve any reality, until finally images are produced which no longer express anything externally real, being 'merely' symbols of the simply unknowable. It is now merely a mystical thinking and quite as unfruitful as that empirical thinking whose sole operation is within the framework of objective facts. [p. 483]"

    I don't believe my thinking has ever reached a point where it lost touch with reality. In fact, I almost always "double check" my thinking with other sources because I don't have enough confidence in my own judgement to feel certain in the conclusion I've made. More often than not my conclusions are sound but I am always extremely anxious until I see their validity verified by something.

    "By his wider circle he is counted inconsiderate and domineering. But the [p. 488] better one knows him, the more favourable one's judgment becomes, and his nearest friends are well aware how to value his intimacy. To people who judge him from afar he appears prickly, inaccessible, haughty; frequently he may even seem soured as a result of his anti-social prejudices. He has little influence as a personal teacher, since the mentality of his pupils is strange to him."

    Again this is one of those things I'm certain I've almost never encountered. Perhaps maybe when I was in my teens I was a little inconsiderate... but prickly, inaccessible... maybe...? (no one has ever mentioned it). I'm not sure how certain I am on the teacher part, I've been told far too many times that I'd make a great teacher. The worst I can remember is getting very impatient when someone wouldn't quickly understand something and I was in the middle of doing something and couldn't explain the well enough myself.

    Two road blocks come to mind preventing me from sitting comfortably with
    in the ego block. One is I attribute (perhaps incorrectly) with having extremely strong and clear personal values AND emotional responses. I'm not quite sure how clear my values are or even how to express these sometimes. Add to this, the fact I don't always notice strong emotions in myself guiding my choices. Maybe I am understanding the concept incorrectly from previous information I have read, and this is one such incompatibility between socionics and other systems?

    I do know that some of the choices I make don't have a basis in logic at all, while others would seem to. How would someone valuing explain the rationale for trying to be "honourable" or something like not wanting to kill a spider for their girlfriend? It is hard for me to give reasons to those choices, as cheesy as the sound lol. That also brings up another thought, I wonder if other people feel guilty when they kick people's butt at a game like Starcraft 2? When I shut people down in that game I always seem to assume a story behind their reason for being terrible "They're probably just small kids, they might be 'dopey', etc". I can feel pretty horrible after winning without them even saying a word lol, but then I remember - it's just a game (this is all stuff I keep to myself though).

    I suppose the second roadblock is that I really don't identify with this "emo" image I see associated with the EII or more specifically, the MBTI INFP (another system difference?). I value being strong in myself and as I've alluded to before, I rarely get into "moods" (unless I'm maybe listening to music). I'm fairly certain I'm an enneagram 6 and as the type suggests, I value courage and being able to push through the obstacles of fear that my own psyche presents me with. After reading descriptions of I don't really see anywhere that "emo" behaviour is a requirement so I suppose it would be nice to have that confirmed by someone who is more experienced with understanding that function.

    Regarding music: I remember my ESE s.o. (made her do the assessment out of curiosity ) saying one time when she looked through my playlist while I was away (-.-)... "You listen to such depressing music". I was surprised at her reaction. I honestly don't even think the music I listen to is that depressing and maybe this is where judgement comes in? I find when I listen to certain music (mostly jazz and downtempo) I can attach a whole slew of meaning to what is/isn't being said and understand the vocalist or tone of the song on a deeply personal level. It's sort of scary how much I can get out of it and it is very hard to explain. Here are some examples searchable on youtube for the sake of the discussion (Kaskade - Honesty [HQ], 10 Battlestar Galactica Season 2 Soundtrack - Something Dark is Coming, Hammock - All Is Dream And Everything Is Real, KUNIYUKI TAKAHASHI ( w / Kristiina Tuomi ) Deliverance)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I ignore Fe in that I don't sit there and try to figure someone out in terms of what cues and emotional reactions they give off.
    Yeah I don't sit there and try to figure it out either, it's either I sort of recognize it instinctualy or I don't. I'll ask or point it out if I want to confirm it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    I think taking a look at your overall lifestyle is usually good enough. Maybe this is easier for extroverts. I identify my ego block because my brain is always playing catch up with my gut, and I also could take a look at all of my objective accomplishments.
    I am inclined to agree with this on the level that the objective accomplishments would point to a pattern but it gets muddied for me when I think everyone might have a different reason for doing the same thing. I am pretty reclusive and have a spotty memory for things that have actually occurred

    Thanks for doing videos by the way!! (If that IS really you)

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    Yeah I don't sit there and try to figure it out either, it's either I sort of recognize it instinctualy or I don't. I'll ask or point it out if I want to confirm it.
    What does come to my attention right away is who is talking to who and who wants to be "closer" in relations to who. And, if I can help it, I try to sooth the emotions of a love struck teen in the room who I have or get the feeling is in love with a certain boy who is present in the room thereby I try to go over to her and offer her me a bandaid which she can apply to her heart, by either hugging me, talking to me, or whatever else she may need to comfort her (even if it's to deliver a love letter)...that's just an example of me.

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    How do you identify with ?
    And also, would you say relationships are your weakness?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    How do you identify with ?
    And also, would you say relationships are your weakness?
    As I understand , it is something I admire in others but can't quite grasp onto saying "I use this all the time and well". I like hearing about tricks to getting things done better and faster and sometimes I can come up with these myself. There are times I'll do things counter to productivity like restart a late game of Ironman/Impossible X-Com because my favourite soldier died. Sometimes I can rip myself a new one when I've done something dumb like missed a turn while driving. Do I like to stockpile useful facts and tricks? Sometimes yes but I don't go out of my way to do it.

    As I read Jung I could see how needed to be balanced by . The law can't always be so absolute you need to understand the spirit of why it is there in the first place, to make things better. When it starts coming to a point where the ends justify the means and the means trample on the very people the law is trying to protect you can see the absurdity.

    "There are guardians of public morals or voluntary rescue-workers who suddenly find themselves in deplorably compromising situations, or in dire need of rescue. Their resolve to save often leads them to employ means which only tend to precipitate what they most desire to avoid. There are extraverted idealists, whose desire to advance the salvation of man is so consuming that they will not shrink from any lying and dishonest means in the pursuit of their ideal.There are a few painful examples in science where investigators of the highest esteem, from a profound conviction of the truth and general validity of their formula, have not scrupled to falsify evidence in favour of their ideal. This is sanctioned by the formula; the end justifieth the means. Only an inferior feeling-function, operating seductively [p. 439] and unconsciously, could bring about such aberrations in otherwise reputable men"

    In my mind I can see why someone would do it but it is something I could never act on even if I were tempted to do so.

    There was a situation on an online game where I can't even remember the exact details, I remember pointing out to my friend that we could have easily taken advantage of a few of our enemies (players on the other team) and take their prize with less work on our part but that we shouldn't because its unethical (said half jokingly). She jumped on my idea and did it for us lol.

    I don't think relationships are my weakness at all, perhaps meeting people for the first time might be a little awkward but it is something that smooths over quickly

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    As I understand , it is something I admire in others but can't quite grasp onto saying "I use this all the time and well". I like hearing about tricks to getting things done better and faster and sometimes I can come up with these myself. There are times I'll do things counter to productivity like restart a late game of Ironman/Impossible X-Com because my favourite soldier died. Sometimes I can rip myself a new one when I've done something dumb like missed a turn while driving. Do I like to stockpile useful facts and tricks? Sometimes yes but I don't go out of my way to do it.

    As I read Jung I could see how needed to be balanced by . The law can't always be so absolute you need to understand the spirit of why it is there in the first place, to make things better. When it starts coming to a point where the ends justify the means and the means trample on the very people the law is trying to protect you can see the absurdity.

    "There are guardians of public morals or voluntary rescue-workers who suddenly find themselves in deplorably compromising situations, or in dire need of rescue. Their resolve to save often leads them to employ means which only tend to precipitate what they most desire to avoid. There are extraverted idealists, whose desire to advance the salvation of man is so consuming that they will not shrink from any lying and dishonest means in the pursuit of their ideal.There are a few painful examples in science where investigators of the highest esteem, from a profound conviction of the truth and general validity of their formula, have not scrupled to falsify evidence in favour of their ideal. This is sanctioned by the formula; the end justifieth the means. Only an inferior feeling-function, operating seductively [p. 439] and unconsciously, could bring about such aberrations in otherwise reputable men"

    In my mind I can see why someone would do it but it is something I could never act on even if I were tempted to do so.

    There was a situation on an online game where I can't even remember the exact details, I remember pointing out to my friend that we could have easily taken advantage of a few of our enemies (players on the other team) and take their prize with less work on our part but that we shouldn't because its unethical (said half jokingly). She jumped on my idea and did it for us lol.

    I don't think relationships are my weakness at all, perhaps meeting people for the first time might be a little awkward but it is something that smooths over quickly
    You are correct. LSE or Te even can make things into laws or standards of behavior to such an extent that they judge the external people so harshly by it and even they themselves knowing the law will find a way around it. As my dual cousin says "I learn the law and if I need to get something done, I find a way around it." To them it's humorous and funny to abuse things that they hold others so rigidly and harshly by, but by that their weakness in shows. It's not about others, it's about their ends and the means by which justify their ends...stepping over dead bodies and women with tears is ok for them sometimes. NOT to me, to me it's not ok to engage in a value one holds to others while not living up to them themselves.

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    Maritsa, how would you normally react to holding a conversation with a family member who calls you almost every day to talk about something you don't care about. This family member might also often times repeat themselves, saying the same things they mentioned the previous day.

    For me, this happens when an uncle of mine calls to talk about anime he watches or his accomplishments in games I don't care about. I know for a fact that he puts off many people with his personality and has almost zero people in his life he can talk to about his interests. He is very much alone in the world from what I notice. He is a good person sometimes while at other times he is a snake, he complains to my father about driving to work (he works for my dad) and my dad will give him 20 dollars a day to make the trip (more than he needs). He will also sometimes arrive to our house an hour late, then proceed to stay here to eat our food, drink, and talk to me (if I'm home) for another 30 minutes or hour before actually meeting with my dad.

    When he calls me I feel obliged to talk to him and can get extremely frustrated being on the phone with him (though I don't do anything about it because I don't want to crush him). I answer about 1 in 5 of his calls, and at one point he actually told me in person that I never answer the phone. I am curious how you as an EII would react to a similar situation. I also invite other types to comment.

    Another interesting thing happened today which I thought might be worth of discussion. When I went to check on my dad he was watching "Guy Fieri's Grocery Games". I had never watched the show before, they were at the part where they went off to the shelves and collected their ingredients to prepare their meals. Guy said "Oh I forgot to mention something to them before they went off, I'll just tell them when they get back". I said to my dad "What they are gonna swap bags?" Sure enough when they came back, Guy messed around with them a bit and exchanged their bags. My dad laughed and asked "How did you know!" ... Well, how DID I know lol? It was just a pure guess on my part I didn't have a distinct impression it was going to happen but felt it would be likely. Was that something that could be explained by cognitive process or just a lucky guess?

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    Maritsa, how would you normally react to holding a conversation with a family member who calls you almost every day to talk about something you don't care about. This family member might also often times repeat themselves, saying the same things they mentioned the previous day.
    Listen to them endlessly and try to learn everything I can about anime

    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    For me, this happens when an uncle of mine calls to talk about anime he watches or his accomplishments in games I don't care about. I know for a fact that he puts off many people with his personality and has almost zero people in his life he can talk to about his interests. He is very much alone in the world from what I notice. He is a good person sometimes while at other times he is a snake, he complains to my father about driving to work (he works for my dad) and my dad will give him 20 dollars a day to make the trip (more than he needs). He will also sometimes arrive to our house an hour late, then proceed to stay here to eat our food, drink, and talk to me (if I'm home) for another 30 minutes or hour before actually meeting with my dad.
    This changes the game for me. I will resent it after a while and either not serve the person food or tell my father, "don't you realize he doesn't really care about you...he's just here to freeload?" I would not want to be around this person but I won't tell them unless I felt I was in a safe area as in the one my cousin created when she invited all the girls in the family for a dinner and to "have what was on our minds about each other out." There and then did I feel enough support, like what I was going to say really was going to be heard and understood and I felt safe to say what I was thinking and feeling. I told my SEI cousin "you don't seem to see your actions and don't seem to understand that you can't continuously, night after night, go to other people's homes and not have something small at your home. It's not for me believe me I don't have enough energy to go to your place this is for our aunt who is seriously ill and came to see you but she was hungry and neither you nor your husband who make good amount of money can or have offered to get her a morsel of food to eat. This isn't acceptable. You're being mean." She blew up in my face with hysterics which her sister, my cousin remained calm and agreed with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    When he calls me I feel obliged to talk to him and can get extremely frustrated being on the phone with him (though I don't do anything about it because I don't want to crush him). I answer about 1 in 5 of his calls, and at one point he actually told me in person that I never answer the phone. I am curious how you as an EII would react to a similar situation. I also invite other types to comment.
    The phone is very impersonal to me. I can say how I feel as long as it's not in person. I can see how you may feel like you'll crush him and refrain from being serious. But my coldness and distance gets people to come to me and ask me what's up and in which case I will tell them honestly and exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    Another interesting thing happened today which I thought might be worth of discussion. When I went to check on my dad he was watching "Guy Fieri's Grocery Games". I had never watched the show before, they were at the part where they went off to the shelves and collected their ingredients to prepare their meals. Guy said "Oh I forgot to mention something to them before they went off, I'll just tell them when they get back". I said to my dad "What they are gonna swap bags?" Sure enough when they came back, Guy messed around with them a bit and exchanged their bags. My dad laughed and asked "How did you know!" ... Well, how DID I know lol? It was just a pure guess on my part I didn't have a distinct impression it was going to happen but felt it would be likely. Was that something that could be explained by cognitive process or just a lucky guess?
    You assumed the next logical thing in a progression of events or you had viewed somewhere from experience and it stuck with you. One is dynamic and the other is static.

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    SKP whats your enneatype? There were a few interesting posts I encountered on another forum, apparently we aren't the only ones who have encountered this issue. I'm not sure of the16types forum etiquette so I won't link them here but needless to say they both have MBTI INFPs who are wrestling with the issue of being "not logical enough to be an INTP" and "not emotional enough to be an INFP". Both were enneagram 6s and reported not being able to relate with both sides, hoping the enneagram could explain the difference. Through reading the posts, it isn't so much about the emotion itself but the subjective value based reasoning the individual has. This is supposedly why one EII can cry after a death and another will remain calm yet they both might think it is wrong to disrespect the individual. I knew I was an enneagram 6 before I started with Jungian typologies and I found it interesting that most of the values I do "value" (for lack of a better word) are the things a type 6 strives for. Having courage, treating others as equals, being dependable, having faith in myself and in others, being truthful. I also, for the longest time, thought weakness in myself was something unacceptable. I hardly think about it now but I remember when I was really young (14 or 15) I hated the fact I saw myself as weak, I mean really hated it. There were nights I cried in both anger and despair about this and vowed it would be something I would try to change. For whatever reason (I assume my upbringing) I thought this side of me was a weakness and did everything I could to remove it from my thought process (I joined the military because of this). 15 or so years of trying to erase it its no wonder I have a hard time finding it now (and I still am). Is this something unique to Introverted Feeling or can any type identify?

    Another thing I picked up was that an Introverted Thinking dominant is supposedly constantly thinking and trying to improve their internal models (I can't say this is true of me). I was also looking into the quadras again to compare Delta and Alpha interactions a little more. I tried bringing the theory into reality to draw some understanding. When I think about the reasons my girlfriend (ESE) wants to go out they are reasons I almost never agree with, in fact I am also sort of repulsed by these reasons at times. When I go out I like it to be for some tangible reason, something like "We are going out to achieve goal X". If I don't have this goal in mind I am very restless and want to leave. Most of the times my girlfriend just likes to "Go places" and "Mingle" or "Wander" and it is something I can internally get very frustrated with (yet stay because of her). Please correct me if I am wrong but as I understand it an Alpha quadra member would not care about the event so much as the company. It surprises me when I realize she still has a great time when we don't achieve our goal or I feel nothing was accomplished. As I understand it, a Delta group needs some sort of productive activity to keep it together.

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    It's fine to link to other forums here as long as the content isn't NSFW.

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    For whatever reason, when I read what you write, I picture an IEE I know saying it. I'm not saying that you are IEE, just that something strikes me as similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    For whatever reason, when I read what you write, I picture an IEE I know saying it. I'm not saying that you are IEE, just that something strikes me as similar.
    Well hopefully he sounds good

    Appreciate the comments Joy and IEE is something I have been considering. At this point I'd say is the one thing I AM sure I use (I think ).

    When I originally did the assessment on sociotype.com it gave me an Ne subtype so perhaps this side of me shows a little more? I don't know how much weight to put in the assessment itself though since I read they aren't entirely reliable. I tried doing one just with the "VI" portion for fun to remove bias (by only slightly moving the sliders I was sure about for the first 2 phases) and I came up with EII-Ne and LII 80% as a second choice.

    I was looking through the 'Socionics Type Examples with Videos' ( http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...es-with-Videos ) and found it interesting Robert Pattinson was first on the list for male EII. Not to sound vain at all but you have no idea how many times I was compared to him after that damned movie Twilight came out lol -.-

    Do you think the distinction between EII and IEE is that big in terms of practical use of socionics? If I can't obviously fit myself into one box maybe I shouldn't worry about it so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    Well hopefully he sounds good



    Do you think the distinction between EII and IEE is that big in terms of practical use of socionics? If I can't obviously fit myself into one box maybe I shouldn't worry about it so much.
    Sooner or later you'll figure it out. According to Temparament IJ and EP are quiet different but share the fact that they're static. Looking at the IEs in every block and figuring out what fits better is a good way IMO (Means comparing Base/Cretive, Role/PoLR, etc)

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    First temperament and then watch for their emotional liveliness.

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    They are pretty similar in that they have the sames values, strengths, and weaknesses. Their temperaments and intertype relations are different though. It's up to you whether it's important to figure it out (and that's assuming this shit is even legit, something I'm not entirely convinced of). I have an EII > IEE impression of you so far, but I'm not sure what that's worth as my benchmark typings have been shaken pretty dramatically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    First temperament and then watch for their emotional liveliness.
    Are you referring to while I'm watching the clips Maritsa?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Sooner or later you'll figure it out. According to Temparament IJ and EP are quiet different but share the fact that they're static. Looking at the IEs in every block and figuring out what fits better is a good way IMO (Means comparing Base/Cretive, Role/PoLR, etc)
    If I just compare the temperaments ( http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...le=Temperament ) I relate more to IJ though can easily relate to some parts of EP. If the EP type likes and needs constant change then this is the biggest clue I don't fit since I enjoy stability.

    From http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...pes-by-Gulenko ... I'll bold what I agree with

    Role - Se - extraverted sensing

    In extreme situations, mobilize and act very decisively. Gives resistance to any encroachment. Can not respond to attempts to dictate, power pressure. It is very independent and will not force anyone else. He sometimes lacks the will to pull myself together and do what is overdue. She is not afraid to speak out against a superior force. Can go to the head of every rank and to demand solutions of the problem. He has a habit of first touch an opponent. Getting involved in the dispute, actively, and sometimes aggressively defend their opinions. Suffers because of his irritability and edginess. For this reason, it is difficult to relieve tension in the shoulder of the case.

    Role - Fi (introverted feeling):

    Unsociable people. He is very hard to build relationships with people. Makes an effort to behave kindly, to enter into close contact. Hides her personal life from the outside. He does not like uninvited guests do not know how to fill them. In communicating very cautious. Conversation support only when it concerns important to him so. Values ​​already established relationships. Persistently retains the system of relations, which has become accustomed. Will not break well-established relationships, but will not cling to relationships that have outlived themselves. Indifferent to criticism from outside. Not afraid of a negative attitude. With unknown or incomprehensible to him by people trapped internally, does not feel like myself with them to lead.


    Role - Ti - introverted logic (Yeah probably the whole thing)...


    Is able to bring myself to be disciplined and the executive. Conscientious, though slow in the performance of a particular job. Takes care of the details. Strictly adheres to the commitments made. Powered modestly, without the noise and praise. Strives to objectively and without emotion to understand the situation, analyzing the facts. However, it is difficult to express their understanding of the analytical language. In a formal setting is restrained and dryish. It does not like to show their attitude to the people. Solve difficult problems due to the large stock of patience, which he endowed by nature.

    I can sound like a real dummy when trying to explain things and I assume that an LII would rarely have a problem like this. I've got an interesting dynamic with my ESTj buddy where I don't even need to say the details of a question and he still understands what I'm trying to say lol. "You need to go to the place with the guy!"... "Oh yeah that's where you get it."

    I appreciate the help everyone, (I feel the thread should have its name changed lol). I think I'll mull over what I've learned so far and let myself see it as I observe my own interactions from a fresh perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    They are pretty similar in that they have the sames values, strengths, and weaknesses. Their temperaments and intertype relations are different though. It's up to you whether it's important to figure it out (and that's assuming this shit is even legit, something I'm not entirely convinced of). I have an EII > IEE impression of you so far, but I'm not sure what that's worth as my benchmark typings have been shaken pretty dramatically.
    Indeed it is, thank you. I think a system is only legit as it is useful so I hope you still get something out of it!

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    You mentioned VI earlier. If you post pics or video it could help if you're comfortable with it. I'm not a big believer in VI, but sometimes things just jump out, like "this person is definitely introverted" or whatever. There are often video chat rooms going, too.

    The recent usefulness for me lately is I fear largely related to taking breaks from completing continuing education classes online. There is a little part of me that hopes that finding my type will provide answers about how to make myself a more productive person, I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    If I just compare the temperaments ( http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...le=Temperament ) I relate more to IJ though can easily relate to some parts of EP. If the EP type likes and needs constant change then this is the biggest clue I don't fit since I enjoy stability.

    From http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...pes-by-Gulenko ... I'll bold what I agree with

    Role - Se - extraverted sensing

    In extreme situations, mobilize and act very decisively. Gives resistance to any encroachment. Can not respond to attempts to dictate, power pressure. It is very independent and will not force anyone else. He sometimes lacks the will to pull myself together and do what is overdue. She is not afraid to speak out against a superior force. Can go to the head of every rank and to demand solutions of the problem. He has a habit of first touch an opponent. Getting involved in the dispute, actively, and sometimes aggressively defend their opinions. Suffers because of his irritability and edginess. For this reason, it is difficult to relieve tension in the shoulder of the case.

    Role - Fi (introverted feeling):

    Unsociable people. He is very hard to build relationships with people. Makes an effort to behave kindly, to enter into close contact. Hides her personal life from the outside. He does not like uninvited guests do not know how to fill them. In communicating very cautious. Conversation support only when it concerns important to him so. Values ​​already established relationships. Persistently retains the system of relations, which has become accustomed. Will not break well-established relationships, but will not cling to relationships that have outlived themselves. Indifferent to criticism from outside. Not afraid of a negative attitude. With unknown or incomprehensible to him by people trapped internally, does not feel like myself with them to lead.


    Role - Ti - introverted logic (Yeah probably the whole thing)...


    Is able to bring myself to be disciplined and the executive. Conscientious, though slow in the performance of a particular job. Takes care of the details. Strictly adheres to the commitments made. Powered modestly, without the noise and praise. Strives to objectively and without emotion to understand the situation, analyzing the facts. However, it is difficult to express their understanding of the analytical language. In a formal setting is restrained and dryish. It does not like to show their attitude to the people. Solve difficult problems due to the large stock of patience, which he endowed by nature.

    I can sound like a real dummy when trying to explain things and I assume that an LII would rarely have a problem like this. I've got an interesting dynamic with my ESTj buddy where I don't even need to say the details of a question and he still understands what I'm trying to say lol. "You need to go to the place with the guy!"... "Oh yeah that's where you get it."

    I appreciate the help everyone, (I feel the thread should have its name changed lol). I think I'll mull over what I've learned so far and let myself see it as I observe my own interactions from a fresh perspective.
    How do you relate to Se PoLR?

    There was a very good post about temparaments in this forum but I can't find it anymore so I try to resume it.

    IJ sees the reality as static/stable and is pleased by that
    EP sees the reality as static/stable and often boring so he wants to act
    IP sees the reality as dynamic/changing and it's ok he tends to go with the flow
    EJ sees the reality as dynamic/changing and is somehow scared by it that makes him proactive

    IJ can act like EP and vice versa
    IP can act like EJ and vice versa (e.g an IP can also become proactive like an EJ in certain moments when it's to unplaisant/scaring for him)
    So it makes completely sense that you see yourself in IJ and EP

    I had/have the same problem like you and am torn between the two delta ST mirrors

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    Quote Originally Posted by megapol View Post
    SKP whats your enneatype?
    It was interesting reading your post but for myself it seems unlikely that I am an enneagram 6. Latest test result gave me 5w4 wing though often in tests I also receive 4w5.
    Enneagram types I am considering include 1, 4, 5 and to lesser degree 6 & 9.
    Often in life I get along well with enneagram 7's so maybe that alone indicates a likely type for myself.

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