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Thread: SEIs-ISFps and stubbornness

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    Default SEIs-ISFps and stubbornness

    Does Si dominance cause one to be resistant to change, and, by extension, changing one's mind? Whenever I talk to my SEI friend, I think as though my ingeniously crafted Ti frameworks are disappearing down a black hole... It's intensely difficult to convince them of anything. It's weird.

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Does Si dominance cause one to be resistant to change, and, by extension, changing one's mind? Whenever I talk to my SEI friend, I think as though my ingeniously crafted Ti frameworks are disappearing down a black hole... It's intensely difficult to convince them of anything. It's weird.

    Either you're not ILE, or your friend is not SEI. SEIs dig ramblings coming from Ne-base types. My SEI gf lives by the principles of her ILE guru:

    http://www.willemderidder.com/eng/page.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    What type of thing do you typically try and convince them of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squirreltual View Post
    What type of thing do you typically try and convince them of?
    Eh, I can't think of specifics off the top of my head, but just imagine, y'know, arguing ludicrous and iconoclastic points about taboo subjects.

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    Also, did you give them time to absorb all of your ideas and information overnight and then ask them what they thought? I think they need time to think about things.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    I never find SEI's stubborn. SLI's yes.

    Also the way ILE and SEI works is not really about "changing minds".

    As yielding types, ideas are not sacred, but resources are. SEI's will often simply agree and say something to get others off their backs, but they still won't do anything they find disagreeable or not to their taste. In this way, if a ILE gives them some strange ideas, they'll just nod and accept it but won't take it to heart.

    SEI's are very good at making people feel like they're getting their way, while not really letting them get their way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    To a degree, yes.



    My understanding is this is actually one of the huge benefits of an SEI partner for an ILE. Because ILEs have a tendency to change their minds every 2 days - 2 weeks, the SEI knows not to take every single idea seriously.

    Do you find yourself changing your own mind often?

    Also, regarding SEIs... are you calling all SEIs stubborn because of just one friend? Or do you have other examples of SEIs being stubborn?
    I know some other Si-egos. I'm going off my experience with them as well. I'm just talking about the SEI because I'm in the Alpha forum.
    But, yes. We ILEs are notorious for creating theories off only a few data points. It's just how we roll.


    I do change my mind a lot, and I do think having someone who is a bit more grounded is helpful. I'm just saying, the Si response seems odd from this side of the fence.

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    squirreltual's Avatar
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    They are stubborn like jigglypuffs and highly skilled in the use of sleep. You can't, as an ILE, debate against for for very long because they'll pull out a pie and stroke your hair. They are basically untrollable gentle ninjas.

    Every now and again I've noticed an offhand comment has made it past their filter and they want to try a new thing, or have altered their perspective slightly. It takes a.while to hear about though.

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    Anyone can be stubborn depending on the results they want to achieve, what they are able to articulate and if the articulation is actually being received in a proper manner by the other person's brain.

    When it comes to SLIs I'm a very stubborn person. When it comes to other types, like ESE, I'm loving and patient. Go figure.

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    In this case, Si works as a down-to-earth filter for Ne sudden ideas. Unless a SEI sees an idea as reliable for the real life he won't accept it to the heart. Despite this, SEIs admire ILEs' ideas anyway, even being unreal.

    SEI's Fi is quite yielding, so one shouldn't be stubborn at taboo subjects. But a SEI minds balance between Fi freedom and looking nice in others' eyes, building relations. That's why one wouldn't dismantle common moral points of view or fight prejudice in public, even if he disagrees.
    ...in a world full of pain, someone's calling your name...

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    Sancho in Don Quixote is a really good example of a SEI, he goes along with Don Quixote's plans and foolishness but does he really? He is not stubborn but he also isn't a push over, and in the end it is he who laments the lost of the adventures the most.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Sancho in Don Quixote is a really good example of a SEI, he goes along with Don Quixote's plans and foolishness but does he really? He is not stubborn but he also isn't a push over, and in the end it is he who laments the lost of the adventures the most.
    I think Sancho is SLI and he's also most often typed as SLI. Semi-Duality makes more sense. I justsay that because there was the SLI/SEI comparison that SLIs are stuborn and SEIs not.
    @Whoobie77 Ne is the suggestive IE oft the SEI type. The IE by which according to theory SEIs are most suggestible. It's not Ti.
    The SEIs I know anyway just go their way and are not very accepting of pressure. And that is what you apply considering your OP. Your OP has also a slight of arrogance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    I think Sancho is SLI and he's also most often typed as SLI. Semi-Duality makes more sense. I justsay that because there was the SLI/SEI comparison that SLIs are stuborn and SEIs not.
    @Whoobie77 Ne is the suggestive IE oft the SEI type. The IE by which according to theory SEIs are most suggestible. It's not Ti.
    The SEIs I know anyway just go their way and are not very accepting of pressure. And that is what you apply considering your OP. Your OP has also a slight of arrogance.
    I don't know of any socionist that types sancho as SLI.

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    From the Reinin Book

    The Sensing-logical introvert a Gaben

    Celebrities of this type: Jean Gaben, Guy De Maupassant, Albert Camus, Agatha Christie and her fictional character Hercules Poirot, Georges Simenon and his fictional character commissioner Maigret, Miguel de Cervantes and his fictional character Sancho Pansa, Jean-Paul Sartre, Françoise Sagan (writer, France), Somerset Maugham, Monica Vitti, Vladimir Vysotsky, Andrei Mironov.

    I could imagine him as SEI do you have sources?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    From the Reinin Book

    The Sensing-logical introvert a Gaben

    Celebrities of this type: Jean Gaben, Guy De Maupassant, Albert Camus, Agatha Christie and her fictional character Hercules Poirot, Georges Simenon and his fictional character commissioner Maigret, Miguel de Cervantes and his fictional character Sancho Pansa, Jean-Paul Sartre, Françoise Sagan (writer, France), Somerset Maugham, Monica Vitti, Vladimir Vysotsky, Andrei Mironov.

    I could imagine him as SEI do you have sources?
    Ok. he types Camus/Cervantes/Sartre SLI. I like Reinin's deductions with dichotomies, but imo his typing ability seems a bit off.

    I'll have to look a bit for the typings as I no longer know the russian sites as well as I used to, but he's marked as SEI under a few of them. Sancho is characterized by his compassion and sincere devotion to Don Quixote, he's people pleasing as well. SLI's aren't really like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whoobie77 View Post
    Does Si dominance cause one to be resistant to change, and, by extension, changing one's mind? Whenever I talk to my SEI friend, I think as though my ingeniously crafted Ti frameworks are disappearing down a black hole... It's intensely difficult to convince them of anything. It's weird.
    Pi as base function feels like having a heavy load tied to your feet that you have to drag everywhere you go - it has a braking, decelerating effect (this is most strongly felt by Pi subtypes). The slowing down happens because any new information presented has to be tied in with the already existing Pi field that has been woven from perceptions of past events.

    Also check your friend's enneagram type. 1s, 9s, and 6s in general score lower on Openness in Big 5 than other types (this is on average, there are exceptions). It could be that you have significantly higher Openness than your friend, which would bring about some disparities to your interaction with him.


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    Quote Originally Posted by silke
    Also check your friend's enneagram type. 1s, 9s, and 6s in general score lower on Openness in Big 5 than other types (this is on average, there are exceptions). It could be that you have significantly higher Openness than your friend, which would bring about some disparities to your interaction with him.
    My guess is that they are a 2, but I think I'm either 5 or 7 so...there's still some disparity there, according to the chart.

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    My fiance is moving to NYC to be with me. He is an SEI. He has lived in Indiana pretty much his whole life. His friends are there. His family is there. He told me that he is afraid that he won't like NY. Of course, he didn't tell me that he was afraid to move at first. I had to keep on digging through all the excuses that he was giving me to find that this was base of it all. Finding the problem is always half the battle. I then had to say a bunch of positives about moving especially how it would be great for his self improvement. He'll have more opportunities. It's good to have more experiences in life. He'll have the opportunity to meet new people. We'll do so many, different, fun things. He'll make more money. He'll be with me. He'll be able to share all of these great, new, experiences with me. Then, I told him that we can move out of NYC after a year if he doesn't like it.

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    He's going to be miserable and lonely...and then he'll ask, or dread to ask, you to move back, you won't because you can't stand the small town stuff he's so interested in. And than you break up.

    True story, mark my words

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    He's going to be miserable and lonely...and then he'll ask, or dread to ask, you to move back, you won't because you can't stand the small town stuff he's so interested in. And than you break up.

    True story, mark my words
    debbie downer, bro.

    also, maybe he'll like NYC. I've quite a few friends move there and love it. one hated it BUT she was the minority and moved back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    He's going to be miserable and lonely...and then he'll ask, or dread to ask, you to move back, you won't because you can't stand the small town stuff he's so interested in. And than you break up.

    True story, mark my words
    WTF?

    As long as there's a place he can play b ball, he'll be fine.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Filambee View Post
    WTF?

    As long as there's a place he can play b ball, he'll be fine.
    It's tough to move from all your friends, good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Filambee View Post
    My fiance is moving to NYC to be with me. He is an SEI. He has lived in Indiana pretty much his whole life. His friends are there. His family is there. He told me that he is afraid that he won't like NY. Of course, he didn't tell me that he was afraid to move at first. I had to keep on digging through all the excuses that he was giving me to find that this was base of it all. Finding the problem is always half the battle. I then had to say a bunch of positives about moving especially how it would be great for his self improvement. He'll have more opportunities. It's good to have more experiences in life. He'll have the opportunity to meet new people. We'll do so many, different, fun things. He'll make more money. He'll be with me. He'll be able to share all of these great, new, experiences with me. Then, I told him that we can move out of NYC after a year if he doesn't like it.
    hahaha...you put a lot of frosting on that

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