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Thread: Discussion of LSI-ISTj Subtypes

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    Default Discussion of LSI-ISTj Subtypes

    I have an ISTj friend, and I compare other people who i think are ISTjs with her. I am wondering if i think that other poeple are not ISTjs because they don't match her subtype or something.

    Could someone tell me the differences between both subtypes?

    I have found for other types that I am sure of, subtypes really make a difference in the person's behavior as compared to other persons of the same type.

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    In the case of men, the sensory subtype is more like the stiff, rigid, a bit impulsive authoritarian military officer. The logical subtype, a more balanced and calm bureaucrat-like figure.

    For women, I think the key is whether she is more willing to go for sheer assertiveness than more calm logical arguments. I would guess that the sensory subtype is more into being and feeling attractive, the logical subtype may be relatively unconcerned.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Default spotting ISTj sensory subtype

    Expat and FDG are right - what I probably need to find is an ISTj sensory subtype, because that would balance off my Ni-subtype attitude where I try to postpone everything and where I'm too careful about things that will probably backfire in the future.

    I have no idea how to spot them. I think there is a side to ISTjs that I don't even know. I was more than a little surprised to see that Expat (and many others) had typed a character from HBO's Rome as ISTj. It was Lucius Vorenus played by Kevin McKidd. I had him typed as ENTp because I thought I was seeing the Se-role combined with a lot of Ti. (Mhh... it doesn't seem that far off when I put it this way, lol)

    There is one kind of ISTj that I know of but I don't even know if they are of the same subtype - people who are shy and quiet, very careful around strangers, wear the same outfit all the time, very conservative in their views, very dutiful. They are very reliable people - you always know what to expect of them. When they disagree with a stranger/half-stranger, they pout. Seems they've had their share of bad experiences upsetting people... When they disagree with a friend, they become very stubborn and enforce their own opinion. They can't really be converted to any other opinion in that case.

    Their Se mostly manifests in being dutiful. They are very neat, they go to sleep early, they wake up early. They are very productive - they don't postpone things and they don't spend time doing nothing.

    I have two questions.
    Which subtype is that and how does it differ from Se-subtype? ( :wink: )
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    ISTj-Se subtype is more outgoing than their Ti bros. They can come across as flirtatious and debonair as an ESTp. But watch their back and neck for it betrays their type. It's stiff. Look out for that and you won't mistake them for ESTps . Anyway, I notice that they tend to hold their heads up high and look down quite sharply at people. Try holding a debate with them over inconsequential matters and you'll see their hard-headedness rise to the fore. Instead of considering your opinion, they'll repeat their standpoints all the while maintaining an intimidating stare (though maybe not on purpose. Heck I don't know.) Don't hold their tempers as well as sub-type so can have embarrassing outbursts in public although how fast it's over with varies from one to another.

    They are more emotionally-expressive although laughters are somewhat forced. Kris, if an ISTj-Se subtype has the hots for you, you will quickly know it because he will come to you... You don't ever have to claw after him.

    (This post is written in a light-hearted manner but my opinion is based on observation and personal experience)

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    Lol, stefana's post is perfect
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I have no idea how to spot them. I think there is a side to ISTjs that I don't even know. I was more than a little surprised to see that Expat (and many others) had typed a character from HBO's Rome as ISTj. It was Lucius Vorenus played by Kevin McKidd. I had him typed as ENTp because I thought I was seeing the Se-role combined with a lot of Ti. (Mhh... it doesn't seem that far off when I put it this way, lol)
    But if you observe closely, his behavior was mostly self-controlled, he was consistent in his own rules -- that's an IJ. Again, IMO that character (and perhaps also the actor) was a near-perfect example of ISTj.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    There is one kind of ISTj that I know of but I don't even know if they are of the same subtype - people who are shy and quiet, very careful around strangers, wear the same outfit all the time, very conservative in their views, very dutiful. They are very reliable people - you always know what to expect of them. When they disagree with a stranger/half-stranger, they pout. Seems they've had their share of bad experiences upsetting people... When they disagree with a friend, they become very stubborn and enforce their own opinion. They can't really be converted to any other opinion in that case.
    ISTjs of any subtype may be quiet, but not shy. But what you described would be closer to a Ti subtype.


    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Lol, stefana's post is perfect
    Yes, I agree.

    Henry Fonda's character Frank in Once Upon a Time in the West is perhaps a good example of an ISTj sensory subtype.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    sorry I haven't replied yet. This thread seems to contain very good information. Now I just have to learn to start using it. trying twice as hard to spot ISTjs with this new information. Might have found one potential ISTj, but I still suspect he's ENTp because there's something too chaotic about him.

    thanks for all the replies. I might get back to you on this topic when I locate an ISTj Se-subtype.

    PS! Just in case you're wondering... no, I haven't split up with INTp Erkki and not planning to. It's just interesting to see how so many relationships are spot on compared to socionics descriptions, so I want to experience duality at work. I want to know what the fuss is all about. I want to surround myself with beta ST friends, so me and Erkki can keep on sharing our wonderful geeky life without thinking that I'm missing out on something better.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

    Old blog: http://firsttimeinusa.blogspot.com/
    New blog: http://having-a-kid.blogspot.com/

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    Default Re: Oh Uhm, Dual with Boyfriend

    Logical subtype Ti-ISTj (Ti-LSI)

    Description by V. Meged and A. Ovcharov

    Ti-LSI Appearance:
    The logical subtype is self-assured, calm, restrained, correct and impenetrable. At times he may seem arrogant. Sufficiently kind, imperturbable, and unemotional. Very polite and attentive to details in conversation, likes to specify and clarify everything, but sometimes becomes too focused on details that are nonessential to others. Unhurried, perhaps even slow. Likes receiving exhaustively comprehensive and thorough information to his inquiries. Dislikes ambiguity. Internally, he is quite collected. Never loses his spirit and sense of perseverance. Tries to encourage those who are in need of support. Has a direct, motionless gaze that seems to look right through and not at his conversation partner. His movements are measured but constrained; there is a tendency to shuffle his feet against the floor when walking. When he turns, he does so with his entire body such that it sometimes seems like his neck is fixed to his shoulders; doesn't like to turn his head.

    Ti-LSI Character:
    A sober realist who knows how to find a way out of difficult situations. Stoic: overcomes difficulties without complaining. Dislikes running too much ahead and is able to patiently wait for the outcome. It is difficult to convince him to change his stances. He is uncompromising in matters that he considers to be important. Prefers to prepare for everything in advance since he doesn't like improvising; feels uncomfortable with change and instability. Somewhat contradictory and given to internal doubts, but ultimately does not let his internal vacillations undermine his main orientations. Knows how to consistently and persistently overcome all obstacles. Prefers to implement his knowledge into practice. Tries to stabilize any situation. Bravely endures through misfortunes and adversity while not losing his heart and spirit.

    Lacks sufficient flexibility in dealing with people and is poor at taking their individual abilities into account. Does not trust those who are light-headed and light-hearted because he is not sure of whether their feelings are trustworthy. Tolerant of defects of those who are close to him; serves as a reliable support for them. Quickly grows tired of interacting with people; quite tolerant of solitude. Restrained and unobtrusive. The objective matters for him are more important than personal relationships and feelings. Usually a private person who does not readily share his experiences with outsiders. Doesn't demonstrate what he is feeling: hunger, fear, pain, etc. Tries not to burden others with himself; relies on the help of close people only in extreme cases.
    He loves precision and concreteness in everything. Consistent and thorough in his activities and decisions. Careful and thorough in carrying out his tasks. Intolerant of slackness and irresponsibility from others. Follows through his assignments to their completion. Trusts only in official sources of information. A good researcher of narrow issues. Delves into all the details without dismissing and losing sight of anything minor. Accurately maintains records, likes to clarify facts, readily informs those who turn to him for advice about any regulations, about which he is usually informed. In an administrative position, he can establish a clear work regimen, discipline, and order. As a manger, he most often adheres to a chain of command. Very operative and conscientious, possesses a sense of duty. Demanding of himself and others. Tries to be even and reasonable, not go to extremes or fall into illusions.

    Modest and unpretentious in his household. Tends to be conservative in his views and habits. If he finds his work interesting and inspirational, may give it his preference while neglecting his personal needs, may see the main purpose of his life in his work. Attentive and friendly companion who knows how to patiently listen and give useful advice.

    Ti-LSI Description by Victor Gulenko: The most rational logical type of all. Very constructive. Strives towards organizational hierarchy, can excessively organize everyone else around him. Himself is meticulous with his work and brings everything to its completion. Does not miss any details. Poorly tolerates chaos and confusion. Shows little dynamicity, is somewhat monotonous in his life. Outwardly seems strict, unfazed, composed and restrained. In work situations he is official even with those who are close to him, and even manifests barrack style of behavior. Conservative in clothing, his clothes are often strict, in dark tones, and resemble a uniform.


    Sexual behavior of subtypes: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...s_and_Subtypes


    Sensory subtype Se-ISTj (Se-LSI)

    Description by V. Meged and A. Ovcharov

    Se-LSI Appearance:
    The sensory subtype appears more restless in behavior and internally emotional than the logical subtype. May seem somewhat restrained yet also obstinate and stubborn in his views, willing to enter conflicts when his opinions are not honored. Self-controlled and impersonal in his demeanor. Dislikes objections and lengthy explanations. Often watches the actions of others in order to try to assist them or to point out their mistakes. Sometimes in indignation he makes reprimanding remarks, other times he simply completes the task himself or tries to help another person do it better. Flaring up, he can become unduly sharp and absolutist in his statements. Occasionally he tries to amend the situation and smiles with kindness and charm. He walks at a rapid pace, placing his feet as if he is "stamping" the ground. Makes an impression of a well-coordinated and active person. Dresses conservatively, but aims for an aesthetically pleasant, even stylish, appearance. In conversation, he attempts to get closer to his partner but doesn't make direct contact. Not inclined to overly sensitive, affectionate, and permissive treatment.

    Se-LSI Character:
    He is persistent in achieving his goals. Orients quickly in extreme situations, displaying considerable willpower, endurance, and practical resourcefulness. Able to protect the interests of his project or business with energy and obstinacy in various situations. Usually confident in his opinions, which he bases on facts and his experience. Sometimes manifests excessive obstinacy and intractability. Dislikes being objected to or when someone else tries to impose their will or working methods on him. Inquisitive, accumulates useful information. Often has interests in areas of morality, art, and legislation. Refers to novel and differing points of view with distrust and suspicion, since it is quite difficult for him to change his positions and way of thinking.

    Can apply pressure on his subordinates if he is in a leadership position, forcing them to work conscientiously; inclined to "tighten the screws" giving instructions in imperative intonation; will check if his orders have been carried out. If his arguments are not taken under consideration, may flare up and try to force others to do everything as it should be done. Internally disapproves of violations of established regulations. Assesses and judges work by the difficulties and challenges that were overcome during its implementation. Applies the same requirements to everyone without taking individual abilities and circumstances into account.

    From time to time needs an emotional discharge to alleviate his inner tensions. In such cases does not hide his emotions and waits for reciprocal sincerity from his partner. Finds it difficult to attain inner balance. At times he loses his restraint and with an outburst can undermine previously established relationships. He is not always able to maintain stable and friendly relations with other people due to his intransigence and straightforwardness of his views and opinions. Despite this, he is usually quite hardy and enduring, both on emotional and physical level.

    Rarely talks about his own feelings and personal affairs; and if he does, he speaks about such subjects to very few people. Does not delve deeply into the personal lives of other people, except may be out of politeness. Considers it his duty to help other people in difficult moments; in such cases he shows attentiveness and sympathy and tries to provide the necessary service. Poorly discerns how other people relate to him; due to this it is inclined to doubt their sincerity, or, conversely, can mistake his own desire to be loved for actual love. Prone to harboring ill-founded suspicions.

    Hardworking, takes on many chores thinking that he can do them better than others. Dedicated to taking care of his loved ones and does so selflessly feeling responsible for their well-being. Tries to provide everything that is needed for his household. Watches for cleanliness and order; strives for aesthetics in appearance and his everyday life. Inclined to create comfort, but dislikes excesses. Feels irritated when others touch his things or do something without his permission.

    Se-LSI Description by Victor Gulenko: Gusty and impulsive. Doesn't always follow the same order and organization that he requires of others, meanwhile criticizing those who disrupt this order. Seems courteous and communicable at a distance, but in closer quarters can prove to be intolerant. If provoked, can respond by aggression. Strives towards leadership, but is best at managing smaller groups. Outwardly appears strong. Male representatives often have facial hair and prefer a free style in their clothing.
    Last edited by silke; 09-14-2017 at 09:38 PM. Reason: updated translated descriptions
    IEI subtype

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    Default ISTj subtypes

    Hello!

    I was just wondering ...

    Is there a way to find out which ISTj subtype I am?

    Thank you in advance,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Well, one problem would be -- subtype according to which definition ?

    But let's start by looking at these descriptions - do you think you are more obviously one than the other?


    INSTRUCTOR
    Logical subtype are confident in itself, it is calm, restrained, dryish, correct and not penetrated. It now and then seems haughty. Is moderately amiable, imperturbable bezemotsionalen. It is very polite and attentive to the details of conversation, loves everything to refine and to explain. It stops on not very essential for other details. It is leisurely, now and then even sluggish. It loves to obtain the detailed and comprehensive information to its questions. It does not love uncertainty. It is internally very assembled.
    It loses the presence of spirit and tries never to encourage those, who need its support. Has the straight line, fixed, which looks as through the collocutor, the view, but not experiencing, but is more indifferent. Motions measured off, but somewhat forged. With walking it a little shuffles by foot-wear. When it is turned, it makes this with entire body. It seems that the neck is fixed on the arms, it does not love to twirl by head.

    CONTROLLER
    Sensory subtype appears by more agitated in his behavior and internally more emotional person. It is reticent, but it is very obstinate and it can enter the conflict, when they are not considered its opinion. If it flares up, it is superfluously sharp and categorical in its statements.
    It is restrained, cold, it does not love objections and long explanations. Constantly unnoticeably it follows the actions of others, trying soak to them or the errors. It is sometimes agitated by anything and observations are made, sometimes undertakes for the matter itself or tries soak to make it better without the excess words. By periods it attempts to correct position and then smiles preuvelichenno politely. With walking "is stamped" the step. Gait is sufficiently rapid. He appears by man pulled and active. It dresses conservative, although sometimes it attempts to appear aesthetically, even it is fashionable. With the conversation he tries to approach the collocutor, but without the direct contact. It is not inclined to the affectionate rotation even with the relatives.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Well, one problem would be -- subtype according to which definition ?
    Lol. And thanks for the lightning-quick reply.

    I think I am more the Instructor. But the mangled English doesn't help, I must admit. :wink:
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Default

    Would you rather be a high school teacher of some type or an office manager? I've read somewhere that ISTjs are the most common type among high school science teachers. What's more important to you, controlling people or advising people?

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    I think 'advising'.
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Well, "controlling" is a loaded word, most people would pick "advising".

    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    (1) Is there a way to check that I am a logical subtype?
    (2) If I am a logical subtype, how does that impact upon my personality?
    The problem is that there is no "official" way of deciding that.

    I will say that from what we've discussed before and how you come across, imo you are more likely logical than sensory subtype.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I will say that from what we've discussed before and how you come across, imo you are more likely logical than sensory subtype.
    OK, that's completely cool. Thank you both for your help

    Now that we've established that I'm logical subtype, could someone please help me with the second question?

    (2) If I am a logical subtype, how does that impact upon my personality?
    Kindly,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Default ISTJ Subtypes

    "Se-ISTj means the person prefers Se. Ti-ISTj means the person prefers Ti. So Se-ISTj are better at practical things, Ti-ISTj are better at theoretical things."

    - From Socionics.com Questions & Answers


    I've seen very little in depth exploration to sub types in socionics. its probably similar to the wing preference in enneagram.

    i think my current dual partner is a 6 in enneagram and an Se Subtype. With his relatively proper exterior I think I sensed more Ti subtype in him than there is. I didn't anticipate such strong levels of Se in an ISTJ.

    I have encountered two others ISTJs one of which seems more gentle than the others (i suppose he could be ISFJ, too) and another one who seems much more stern Ti ISTJ where he more closely resembles an INTJ, but you can still tell he's sensory.

    The problem I'm experiencing is that while the relationship helps me manage things and feels quite good it's really not mentally challenging enough (although part of me realizes I need even the most basic attention sometimes - encouragement to clean up etc. kind of a gap between the ego and the ego ideal).

    lefty
    enfj
    Enneagram: Tragic Romantic - 4w5
    Romance Style: the challenger/prize

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftylib View Post
    I've seen very little in depth exploration to sub types in socionics.
    Yes, because you are looking at the wrong page '-)

    LSI Subtypes

    Sensory subtype: (The Controller)
    (Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The sensory subtype appears comparably restless in their behaviour and internally emotional when compared with the logical subtype. They are reticent yet also obstinate and willing to enter conflicts whenever their opinions are not honored; in such cases they flare up and become unduly sharp and absolute in their statements. Constrained and cold in demeanor, dislikes objections and long explanations. They constantly observe the actions of others in order to try to assist them or to point out their mistakes. Although their remarks may appear rather indignant, and lacking in tact, their intentions are usually constructive, as they wish to help; when their instructions are listened to and carried through successfully they will then offer a kind smile. Dresses conservatively although they sometimes aspire to appear fashionable. During conversation they approach the interlocutor without coming into direct contact. Whether at work or at home they are not inclined to practice superfluous rhetoric or manipulation.
    (Victor Gulenko) Irregular and impulsive, does not always follow the order they require from others, in this case they are capable of condemning those who disrupt this order. Communicable and courteous from a distance, but on closer observation, can prove to be intolerant. When caught, they can answer with aggression. Their aim is leadership, but they are better at leading small associations. Outwardly appears strong. The men frequently have facial hair. In their clothing they prefer a free style.
    (Sexual behaviour) Thoughtful and initiative-taking in care, but uniform in the erotic. Know how to make compliments and establish close contact. Often emotional, quick tempered, decisive and sharp. Persistent and obstinate, know how to attain their goals by any price. Need a sexual, emotional, and romantic partner who does not find them boring; a flexible diplomat who knows how to discharge their emotions and is an easily appeased and forgiving person.

    Logical subtype: (The Instructor)
    (Valentine Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov) The logical subtype is self-assured, quiet, constrained, dry, correct and impenetrable. At times seems haughty but is moderately kind and imperturbable. Very polite and attentive to details in conversation, likes that all specify and explain their opinions, but sometimes is prone to get stuck up on nonessential details. When they ask questions they want answers to provide exhaustively detailed information. Dislikes uncertainty and is internally quite collected. They never lose their presence of mind and try to encourage those that require their support. Appears like a straight line, motionless, seeming to look through, rather than at, the interlocutor. Movements are measured but restrained, tendency to shuffle footwear when walking; when they turn they do so suddenly; their neck rests squarely on their shoulders and appears stiff.
    (Victor Gulenko) Most rational logical type. Very constructive. Their aims are in hierarchy; works thoroughly and brings everything to its end without missing a detail. Not very dynamic and does not transfer confusion. Outwardly is strict, sustained, somewhat single-minded. In working situations is official, and even with close relatives can manifest a barrack style of behaviour. Clothing is conservative, for males: his suit is often in a strict, dark tone.
    (Sexual behaviour) Restrained in their expression of feelings with an aim towards clarity and definition; disposed to flatness in relations and reacts negatively to quarrels. Inclined to doubts and distrustfulness. Often show concern about their partner and provide them with pleasant gifts and trifles. Require a sensitive, delicate partner, since they are straight-line/simple in sexual contacts and sufficiently restrained in the positive and negative expression of emotions. Need an attentive, thoughtful partner, whom will not tie them to their will. Their partner should yield to their persuasions and strive to satisfy all of their requirements.

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    i can't thank you enough for those descriptions its exactly what i've been searching for. it's difficult to find anything out there on this on the web.

    this inspector is totally a controller Se subtype for sure. and i basically feel like im dating an extrovert. and it's weird because his introverted self seems like a shell instead of being substantial, because he departs from it so quickly and to such an extreme.

    i would say what socionics could use in this area then is more techniques for dealing with the specific types. i'm trying to use these descriptions you posted to try to find the diplomatic side of myself that knows how to handle all this unexpected energy. its wearing me out. i think if i was with the other subtype, though, id probably start to become rebellious myself unless i was somehow learning a lot on a subject from that type.

    lefty
    enfj
    4w5 - tragic romantic
    challenger/prize romantic style

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    Default VERY GENERAL INFO about the ISTj subtypes (MALES)

    male Ti-ISTjs
    **relatively talkative. Characteristically, in conversation, they can offer strong opinions on many subjects. One could mistake them for extroverts. (Think Dr. Phil McGraw.)
    **Defying the sociotype's stereotype, they often laugh and smile easily. They are peoples' people. Often popular.
    **Very generally, (and relatively,) they seem more 'laid back,' ('comfortable in their own skin') than the other subtype. (Relatively) self-assured.
    ** Preferred dual subtype is the Fe-ENFj (ex. Ronald Reagan)


    male Se-ISTjs
    **Generally, one would not mistake them for extraverts. At all.
    **They can look relatively sullen, serious, even scoffing (Think Lou Reed or James Dean.) Can seem like 'loners.'
    **Based on the above characteristics, people can (very generally) consider them hard to get to know.
    **Stormy emotional life.
    **Preferred dual subtype is the Ni-ENFj (ex. John Lennon.)

    Both ISTj subtypes tend to enjoy/employ over-the-top humor--caustic/mocking. (An extreme example of ISTj humor: Wm. WS. Burroughs' novels... A more contemporary example: Rosie O'Donnell's stand-up.)

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    JuJu I tend to agree about your observations of Ti LSI's. The subtypes seem to be very different. Do you have more such subtype observations, particularly about betas?

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    Juju, what about female LSI's? are they generally the same idea as male LSI's? i assume they would be, just curious because u specified 'male LSI'
    LSI (ISTj)

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    Numbers! muah (my phone is lost, so don't hold it against me please... Do you know where Josh is now? I saw Matt @ Subway, as you know... "Five dollar foot-long and a bottle of anything... TO GO-oo-oo-oo-oo-o!!!!")

    The Se subtype description works for LSI women too. (You are the Se subtype, btw.) By looks alone, one could easily mistake this subtype for some Ip temperament sociotype, (although Ij temperament becomes pretty glaring when this subtype becomes agitated--which can be frequently, in my experience.) To quote Tom Petty, they "stand their ground/won't back down," etc. They can look quiet, brooding--underneath it, they're fun-loving and tough.

    Re-reading it, the Ti subtype description works pretty well for females too. (For an example of the Ti subtype, think Michael Jackson's one-time "lover" Brooke Shields... Compare her to the Se subtype: she seems much less brooding, more upright and 'settled.' The Ti subtype is fun-loving and tough too, of course. Outwardly, they APEAR more affable than their Se subtype counterparts.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    @ WP: I had an LSI-Ti English professor once, probably the most ideal example of this type I have ever encountered. He dressed well, was very eloquent and polite, and gave the impression that everything he did was "by the book;" once you got to know him, you realized it wasn't "the book" but rather "his book," but he just had that...sharpness about him, that you knew he wasn't messing around, that he was in-line somehow. I found his overal dispositon to be reassuring and fitting; from my impression of you, I think you would find him overly formal, probably somewhat retentive, and boring.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    In my experience, what's incorrect in the Meged translations of Ti-LSI are the words "correct," and "polite..." (Of course, anyone can be these things, but I have found Ti-LSIs to be just as likely to be the opposite.)

    For example, who among us would call Ti-LSI Dick Cheney "correct," and "polite?" He told an elected official to "fuck off" on the floors of congress. on the campaign trail, he called a journalist "a major league asshole." He shot someone and then allowed the victim to apologize to him, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    For example, who among us would call Ti-LSI Dick Cheney "correct," and "polite?" He told an elected official to "fuck off" on the floors of congress. on the campaign trail, he called a journalist "a major league asshole." He shot someone and then allowed the victim to apologize to him, etc.
    I don't know what type Dick Cheney is, but my LSI-Ti friend would definitely do that. Like all other betas, he goes for shock and vulgarity. The LSIs I know are big fans of calling people "assholes", "douchebags", "cocksuckers", etc., though generally not to their faces. I don't know why - a tendency to label people they dislike into derogatory categories? I guess all betas will do that, but LSIs seem to do it reflexively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    I don't know why - a tendency to label people they dislike into derogatory categories?
    It's the nature of the aristocratic preference. You understand people by placing them into categories.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    It's the nature of the aristocratic preference. You understand people by placing them into categories.
    How does that work in delta? Is it based on Fi then? (i.e. "this person abides by my moral code = good, this person is immoral = bad")
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    The LSIs I know are big fans of calling people "assholes", "douchebags", "cocksuckers", etc., though generally not to their faces. I don't know why - a tendency to label people they dislike into derogatory categories? I guess all betas will do that, but LSIs seem to do it reflexively.
    I do the same.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by octopuslove View Post
    How does that work in delta? Is it based on Fi then? (i.e. "this person abides by my moral code = good, this person is immoral = bad")
    I think the hinging point is Internal/External, actually. So labels are an external/objective/explicit thing, while choosing who to interact with is an internal/subjective/implicit thing.

    I think aristocratic Fi is having a sense for "I get along well with this group, or people in this group" or "I dislike this group or find this person to be disruptive". Socionics is interesting because it allows really clear groups to be formed and scripts alongside these for how to interact--for instance, "SLIs" or "Alphas" or what have you.

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    Default Two types of LSI

    In my observations IRL Iīve been noticing two types of LSI that seem to exist, I donīt know whether they correspond to the Ti and Se subtypes but I think itīs probable.

    One type is more forceful, more conflict seeking, less polite, more into getting into arguments and wanting to win the arguments, Iīve seen this type is common among E6s.

    The other type is less forceful, cooler/colder, not conflict-seeking, more polite and often displays a quiet arrogance. This would be the Ti subtype and itīs common among E1s.

    I think Discojoe is really LSI from the last time I saw him arguing with Maritsa over some thing on webcam. Heīs the first subtype, for sure. More forceful, into having arguments just for proving himself right, not as cold as the Ti subtype.

    Iīve come to the conclusion, after meeting some guys from the English navy and hanging out with them this weekend, that LSIs are very common in military and Ti subtypes seem to be more common among saxons/north europeans, whereas Se subtypes are more common among latins/southern europeans.

    I thought itīd be nice to share this information with some of you here.

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    According to this description I do get along better with LSI-Ti. Does that mean I am EIE-Fe?
    Sincerely Yours,

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    The three types I have noticed so far are E1, E3, and E8. I know a lot of people say that E5, and E6 exist also, but I just haven't noticed it or might mistaken them for some other enneagram type.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    I donīt know whether they correspond to the Ti and Se subtypes but I think itīs probable.

    One type is more forceful, more conflict seeking, less polite, more into getting into arguments and wanting to win the arguments, Iīve seen this type is common among E6s.

    The other type is less forceful, cooler/colder, not conflict-seeking, more polite and often displays a quiet arrogance. This would be the Ti subtype and itīs common among E1s.
    These are exactly the Se and Ti subtypes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sarinana View Post
    According to this description I do get along better with LSI-Ti. Does that mean I am EIE-Fe?
    Yes, I think that even apart from this logical premise that you get along better with Ti-subtype, from what Iīve seen of you so far, youīre Fe-EIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    These are exactly the Se and Ti subtypes.
    Thanks, itīs nice to see Socionics IRL , because if it was just some weird lithuanian theory Iīd not be interested at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 07490 View Post
    The three types I have noticed so far are E1, E3, and E8. I know a lot of people say that E5, and E6 exist also, but I just haven't noticed it or might mistaken them for some other enneagram type.
    I think youīre right, the more common ones for LSI are E1 and E6, but they can be almost any type, even E7 perhaps, but hardly E9 or E2 or E4. I know one E5 LSI personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    Thanks, itīs nice to see Socionics IRL
    Exactly. People overtheorize here, practice is way cooler and insightful when it comes to socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airborne View Post
    I think youīre right, the more common ones for LSI are E1 and E6, but they can be almost any type, even E7 perhaps, but hardly E9 or E2 or E4. I know one E5 LSI personally.
    Who else is a LSI E-6 here, Fwiw I don't think DJ Joe is a LSI.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    I disagree that the subtype is more common among E6s , the subtype is too. And I dont think that the subtype is more common among northerners, while the :Se! among latins, thats just ludicrous.

    But all in all I mostly agree with these descriptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by None View Post
    In my observations IRL Iīve been noticing two types of LSI that seem to exist, I donīt know whether they correspond to the Ti and Se subtypes but I think itīs probable.

    One type is more forceful, more conflict seeking, less polite, more into getting into arguments and wanting to win the arguments, Iīve seen this type is common among E6s.

    The other type is less forceful, cooler/colder, not conflict-seeking, more polite and often displays a quiet arrogance. This would be the Ti subtype and itīs common among E1s.

    I think Discojoe is really LSI from the last time I saw him arguing with Maritsa over some thing on webcam. Heīs the first subtype, for sure. More forceful, into having arguments just for proving himself right, not as cold as the Ti subtype.

    Iīve come to the conclusion, after meeting some guys from the English navy and hanging out with them this weekend, that LSIs are very common in military and Ti subtypes seem to be more common among saxons/north europeans, whereas Se subtypes are more common among latins/southern europeans.

    I thought itīd be nice to share this information with some of you here.
    This is the only LSI type that exists. They are this way because every LSI have Fi role and this is something that they can't run and hide from.

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