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Thread: Social inclusiveness - Delta or Fe?

  1. #41
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Today's sociology lesson: In-groups and out-groups taken from some old textbooks

    http://web.missouri.edu/~hartmanj/rs150/inoutgroup.html


    hehehe. Seriously though, that's all this is. You have people identifying with certain groups (delta, Fi, democrat, aristocrat, etc.) and distinguishing themselves on that basis as different and implying a cohesion that just doesn't exist. All people bind themselves to certain groups and separate themselves from others even if it is in a very loose way. I've even seen people on this forum change their typing and from that change their relations to other people.

    For example, someone starts typing themself as Fi and suddenly only they and other Fi types really value and understand intimacy. They start thinking that Fe types just don't get it in the same way, and refuse to see reality because they've created this distinction in their mind. They then create these bonds with other people in their Fi in-group and separate themselves further from the Fe out-group. It's based on something that isn't even true, yet becomes true in their minds.
    I don't think this is all it is. Aristocratic and demographic are specific dichotomies in socionics that deal with grouping behavior, which is why they're called Aristocratic and Democratic.

    Most of the other dichotomies only deal with individual information preference or something like life strategy or conversation differences.

    Aristocracy and Democracy influence who and what is in-group and out-group and affect how individuals make these determination.

    Clubs(NF/ST/NT/SF) gather naturally due to shared interests, this creates often casual in-group acquaintances which can be developed further, however when working together directly opposing quadras naturally enter conflict. This forms important in-group and out-group divisions which mature over time.

    The article you posted is actually describe intra-aristocratic conflict between British/Russia/Germany/Italy and the emergence of Democratic powers post conflict(US). Also the British underwent a major period of democratic adjustment post WWII. People can mistype themselves here all they want, but history as it has played out often you will see intra aristocratic and democratic conflicts that play out on a global stage.

    Even if socionics is making a poor association with Aristocratic and Democratic which I don't think it is, these conflicts still exist on their own within the definition of these terms.

  2. #42
    Airman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I don't think this is all it is. Aristocratic and demographic are specific dichotomies in socionics that deal with grouping behavior, which is why they're called Aristocratic and Democratic.

    Most of the other dichotomies only deal with individual information preference or something like life strategy or conversation differences.

    Aristocracy and Democracy influence who and what is in-group and out-group and affect how individuals make these determination.

    Clubs(NF/ST/NT/SF) gather naturally due to shared interests, this creates often casual in-group acquaintances which can be developed further, however when working together directly opposing quadras naturally enter conflict. This forms important in-group and out-group divisions which mature over time.
    The Groups seem to be real based on interests but it doesn't stop people from being friends, NT and ST, SF and ST, NF and ST, NF and NT. I don't think people should be guided by these quadras and groups concepts in life. They should instead try to understand differences and thus gain more understanding on human beings based on that. Socionics is psychology, it's not a religion with dogmas. I'm not saying you said people to be guided by socionics theory hkkmr, but I think they can easily do so, and this would make them less open to life and human brotherhood in general. It's important to have in mind that Socionics is a field of Applied Psychology, it's more about understanding yourself and others based on a system rather than being guided in your life by that system.

  3. #43
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Air View Post
    The Groups seem to be real based on interests but it doesn't stop people from being friends, NT and ST, SF and ST, NF and ST, NF and NT. I don't think people should be guided by these quadras and groups concepts in life. They should instead try to understand differences and thus gain more understanding on human beings based on that. Socionics is psychology, it's not a religion with dogmas. I'm not saying you said people to be guided by socionics theory hkkmr, but I think they can easily do so, and this would make them less open to life and human brotherhood in general. It's important to have in mind that Socionics is a field of Applied Psychology, it's more about understanding yourself and others based on a system rather than being guided in your life by that system.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say but people don't typically group by quadra without exception, these group arise due to problems in relationships which lead some relationships being maintained longer than others due to preference.

    I haven't said a single thing about quadras(I am talking about other things) really, but clubs, which are grouping that arise due to shared activity, professional or personal. Quadra's relationships are different, because a NT and a SF have very little similarity in their activity, something else has to occur to bring these people together.

    Once one look at all the reasons why people get together, you'll see very quickly that people meet other people and engage them in a open fashion in a fairly finite number of ways.

    Anyways I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, but I'm not offering any prescription what people should do, but offering an analysis of why people group and why conflicts arise. Any sort of prescriptive element is unreliable due to the inadequacy of proper measurement tools in socionic information preference analysis, so one should use one's own typings at one's own risk.

    Most of my analysis works without socionics, I am merely existing what is already occurring within a socionics framework.

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