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Thread: SLE-LSE quasi-identical relations (ESTp & ESTj)

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    I've had arguments with LSEs like this. Might be a Se/Si clash.

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    Yeah. LSE's are pretty damn stubborn like that. My only solution has been to just tell them that we differ.

    "I have my methods, which work and have gotten me where I am today, and you have your methods, which work for you." They've almost always respected that and usually become highly observant and curious about my methods shortly after.

    Te only goes off of what works, and what is tried and true, especially in LSE's who are experience based. So when you make them realize that "I wouldn't be where I am today if I was wrong" a lightbulb tends to click on and they become open minded.

    As far as relationships go, they're too sentimental and leave it to beaver for my taste.

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    What does a procedure have to do with reality? No offence, but I wouldn't understand neither the LSE in question nor you, Ananke. Missing stuff is missing.

    But hey, I never got Se/Ni quadras and their "reality" in the first place. Sounds to me like another rip off.

    I mean, I am completely killed now, for where is the start and where is the end of your funneh story? I see the middle only.
    Last edited by Absurd; 10-28-2013 at 06:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    Ass first, as I said.

    Reality for an SLE is what he observes. Empirism. He orderes what he sees in subjective systems.
    Example: "I have noticed that supervision seems to be a better relationship than benefit, so we should explore this and maybe update the theory a bit"

    Procedures are the "laws" the LSE sees as defining reality.
    Example: "The theory predicts that supervision is a much heavier relationship than benefit, so your observations are likely wrong"

    Clearer?
    Hehehe, yes, a lot clearer, although the example you brought forth is quite funneh, for you can't touch nor smell supervision nor benefit and even if you do, I doubt it is going to have a ground breaking and killing effect on Socionics that is used to type people on this forum, so in a way your observation is nothing more than a hypothesis that requires further testing to become a theory in the first place.

    Second example, is of about the same weight as your first (the LSE one), which simply means that any deviation from dogma, that is official and recognised doctrine, manifests in an instant "pfff, I'm not talking with you."

    All in all, both examples are the same, and the only difference being, your version makes room for error, and the adjustments (update you call it), are in a process of eliminating what you find erroneous. In other words, it is a replacement, not an update.

    That being said, I would be more inclined to rest on what is recognised as Socionics, as it is now, even though I find your, for example "IEE-ESI" supervision relationship quite novel and I am sure many ESI can't wait and test it...

    Interesting you used the Swedish equivalent of empiricism though.

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    Well...

    Hypotheses galore...

    Can't deny one their hypotheses...

    You can trash the rational Fi as well while you're at it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I see words but no meaning in what you type.
    Meaning is obsolete to me, that is, "it" has no meaning. Anyway, are you aware that Socionics is a hypothesis at all? Are you aware that you're coming forth with a hypothesis to a hypothesis?

    My sincerest apologies again - I've painted the roof today with a shitty paint roller, so my typing technique is way off the mark. Anyhow, SLE and their funneh lingo...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    SLE : "reality shows differently, so let's make a new model fitting better"
    LSE : "prosedures say it is like that, so your observations are likely wrong"
    SLE : " you are kidding me? Look at reality, you'll see it's not like the procedures say"
    LSE : " your observations are likely wrong, as I said, prosedures say it is like that"
    SLE : "facepalm! Are you serious?"
    LSE : " procedures sa..."
    SLE: "ok, I got it..."
    LSE : "about time..."

    Frustrating and less intelligent people, who get too much credit. That's how I feel about LSEs. It seems that's how most people feel about their quasi-identicals? Quasi-identical relationship is probably the worst intertype relationship when it comes to working together in any way. It can be cool for social settings and joking around, when nothing has to be achieved, but at work or in relationship the quasi-identical is ass first.
    Sounds like process versus result. And not all quasi relationships are like this. I had a great time working with an INFj once, and we got along very well. She had a very laissez-faire attitude, and would often cover my weakness of letting people intrude and ask me for too much action (cf emotionalists not being critical of requests for action). Maybe this LSE was undualized lol. I have seen many process types get antsy because of that sort of thing. And my reaction is the same as yours: look at what's right in front of your face. Process/evolutionary types are better adapted to abstracts like that because they are often blueprints for living in a highly cohesive society.

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    When I work with SLE I often review what I will do in process form with them. It's often a request of "Maritsa, take care of this." and no specific instructions or method of how this might be done. So, I stand there and say, "so, in reviewing what I will do...first, I will call them; second, I will...." I often get a "just take care of it" look when I do this rather than a real interest in the details of my process that I'm reiterating.

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    As far as my experiences go, it's the types with weak Te that tend to defend inefficient procedures and stick with them no matter how poorly they fit reality. LSEs are usually very creative in finding alternative approaches and more prone to fixing the manual than refusing to believe it's faulty and the car is not moving.
    Last edited by willekeurig; 10-30-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
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    I'm electro-mechanic though, and do tools.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    When I work with SLE I often review what I will do in process form with them. It's often a request of "Maritsa, take care of this." and no specific instructions or method of how this might be done.
    Yeah, they're noobs, I don't know why hkkmr didn't ban them yet. Time to pass the "suggestion" to Air, so he can pass it over to hkkmr.
    Last edited by Absurd; 10-29-2013 at 03:13 PM.

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    I don't know, I often find that LSE's are pretty creative at adapting to different situations, as Agarina said.

    I wouldn't say I defend inefficient solutions, though- usually it's just that there's some piece of information missing. My Ti-seeking leads me to believe that there must be some reason the instructions were written that way and that if we discover what they really seek to do we can make them work to the right effect. Sometimes Te (as it manifests in LSE's) feels like it's taking a shortcut to a workable but un-ideal result, if that makes sense, for the mere sake of speed.

    Btw I currently work for a LSE boss and her EII second in command, and the Te-PoLR feels like shit. Constantly feel like I'm only being fed a tiny piece of the information and don't fully understand what's going on, and am occasionally failing expectations at that. Overall, not the worst situation (I was unemployed for a while and it's a decent situation and they are nice, highly competent people) but definitely don't want to stay indefinitely.

    As for quasi's... haha yeah I can't see how working together would turn out well. *Completely* different rhythms and values.

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    The LIES I've known aren't incompetent, the reverse usually. But different work rhythms and social expectations, yeah.
    Awkward to get along with. And sex between [any] two intuitive types ... lol, makes me want to hurl in disgust.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I don't know, I often find that LSE's are pretty creative at adapting to different situations, as Agarina said.

    I wouldn't say I defend inefficient solutions, though- usually it's just that there's some piece of information missing. My Ti-seeking leads me to believe that there must be some reason the instructions were written that way and that if we discover what they really seek to do we can make them work to the right effect. Sometimes Te (as it manifests in LSE's) feels like it's taking a shortcut to a workable but un-ideal result, if that makes sense, for the mere sake of speed.

    Btw I currently work for a LSE boss and her EII second in command, and the Te-PoLR feels like shit. Constantly feel like I'm only being fed a tiny piece of the information and don't fully understand what's going on, and am occasionally failing expectations at that. Overall, not the worst situation (I was unemployed for a while and it's a decent situation and they are nice, highly competent people) but definitely don't want to stay indefinitely.

    As for quasi's... haha yeah I can't see how working together would turn out well. *Completely* different rhythms and values.
    It doesn't say anywhere in Ananke's post that LSE are not creative. When it comes to doing a job within a profession, LSE are very much about the RULES the LAW.

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    I think there is a difference between a Te-dominant's "rules" vs a Ti-dominant's "rules".
    In my experience a Te-dominant is aware of rules and regulations surrounding them. I.e. what you're allowed to do vs not allowed to do. The published variety. I.e. "information". They are usually not against bending them to pursue an altruistic goal.
    A Ti-dominant, to my understanding, constructs all sorts of rules by which they live and hold others to (not necessarily societal rules/laws). If they have a personal rule to follow the law to the letter, they will follow it to the letter (or their perception of the letter), no if's ands or buts. no budge. (this might be more LSI than LII though).
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post
    Yeah. LSE's are pretty damn stubborn like that. My only solution has been to just tell them that we differ.

    "I have my methods, which work and have gotten me where I am today, and you have your methods, which work for you." They've almost always respected that and usually become highly observant and curious about my methods shortly after.

    Te only goes off of what works, and what is tried and true, especially in LSE's who are experience based. So when you make them realize that "I wouldn't be where I am today if I was wrong" a lightbulb tends to click on and they become open minded.

    As far as relationships go, they're too sentimental and leave it to beaver for my taste.
    This is a great illustration and confirms my observations as well. In other words, the LSE is curious/openminded about learning other people's methods that might be more efficient/useful, whereas the SLE is stuck to his ways and insists on it because that way has always worked for him. that's part of what I mean by the Ti "NO BUDGE"
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I think there is a difference between a Te-dominant's "rules" vs a Ti-dominant's "rules".
    In my experience a Te-dominant is aware of rules and regulations surrounding them. I.e. what you're allowed to do vs not allowed to do. The published variety. I.e. "information". They are usually not against bending them to pursue an altruistic goal.
    A Ti-dominant, to my understanding, constructs all sorts of rules by which they live and hold others to (not necessarily societal rules/laws). If they have a personal rule to follow the law to the letter, they will follow it to the letter (or their perception of the letter), no if's ands or buts. no budge. (this might be more LSI than LII though).
    Idk, I feel the opposite way entirely about LSI. They are very open to bending the rules, and their method of "imposition" on others does not take the form of holding others up to a invisible (not physical) set of rules. They exert/seek to exert control over objects, and with this, indirectly move people around too. The LSE type seeks to exert control over people (Si-creative, withholding rewards), and this is where pestering people over following the rules comes into play. Dear god, if that type of shit isn't LSE, idk what is.

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    yeah, a ton of the Ti's (especially the dominants) I know interpret the "rules" however the heck they want, or only follow the rules they personally agree with and *have* to come to their own conclusions. i don't think it's type related though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    Lol, totally. I feel like I'd put people in a situation where they'd feel like slaves if I told them HOW to do something, and I much rather want to give them freedom and space to do it however they want. I expect they know themselves how they like to work, and I would feel bad if I put frames on them in that sense, as it seems too confining. I shouldn't control anyone's life like that, it seems. I will however, expect that the result is EXACTLY as I described. :-)
    Te is slave driving or can be... hence the tyrannic nature of Te in involvement with people and work. people should read posts like the one I've made to see the preference in working environment and method of thinking when typing people as to have a clear understanding of what is called "conflict relations" which is just preference in existing in a psychological environment the person preferes.

    @Agarina Do you have examples of how you interact with SLE???
    Others? @Eliza Thomason -what do you think of my original post?


    Overall, I think the best approach with SLE is just to obey them, they just want cooperation and not people wasting their time by being babies and refusing to just get things done. They really just want to play and enjoy the day at the end of it all.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-30-2013 at 03:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    I think we talk about different things. LSEs are VERY creative in their Te, of course. Te is the ability to see causes and effects of external situations and manipulate these, and LSEs can be damn fast at reaching conclusions in a way that seems quite undeniable. However, Te relies on conscious information gathered over time, and thus is "uncreative" in that it is so rational, and so dependent on what is valued and true in today's society. Fe is similar to Te, but about the internals of external situations, and as a Fi-valuing person, you can probably identify with how Fe seems limited and only recreating what is said to be good in a given society, even if also Fe is very creative when it comes to manipulating the situation? I would guess that you can see Fe as a bit blind to the bigger picture, no matter how creative it is in Fe-egos? Te is extremely similar on the logical scene. It is very, very dynamic, fast-changing and smart in the situation, but it seems to totally disregard a bigger picture, in some sense, that for me as an irrational person seems quite blind and also quite confining, but still hard to "battle", since it is - like Fe - is built on common sense and society as it is here and now, and anything I say to try and make the picture a bit bigger, can be battled with conscious "that's how all people(Fe)/situations(Te) change these days" kind of arguments.

    Te base means LSEs can be awesome at juggling variables of real life processes to make things go faster and smoother in some direction. For me as a SeTi, this seems limited and stupid, though, as I often don't agree on the direction, or I will want to create the direction, not just move "somewhere" based on what has always worked, the way Te does, and I tend to see LSEs as if they are just moving inside "the past" in some sense, as their Te is reliant on what the LSE has learned so far in life. Rationality can seem very blind to irrationals at times in that way, the same way I guess irrationality can seem very random to rationals? Smart and more experienced LSEs, particularly LSE E3s can be much easier to deal with, though, as their experience makes their Te pull from a lot more knowledge.
    YES Te is a set of objective laws derived from objective experiences. So all of it comes from experience in the past. Give a Te base type who will rush to cut someone out because of glimmers of past association with a new person...very common, no individual evaluation at all even though they are dead set on the claim that they are. psht

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    @Agarina Do you have examples of how you interact with SLE???
    Others? @Eliza Thomason -what do you think of my original post? .
    Maritsa, do you mean #12 here in this thread?? I liked that. Its also confusing me. I thought I gave process directions to my SEE and she is Process. I am having a SEE friend come back and work for me soon but I want to make my expectations clearer. I feel I have so few expectations (for her caretaking for my mother) that the very few I give should be followed. So I explain carefully what I want, and she doesn't do it or does it for a while and stops. I thought it was my too-brief directions, so I got detailed. But she still didn't follow through. I am wondering how to approach her. She is SEE, "process".

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Overall, I think the best approach with SLE is just to obey them, they just want cooperation and not people wasting their time by being babies and refusing to just get things done. They really just want to play and enjoy the day at the end of it all.
    Yes, this would describe my SLE son and I do find it best to just do things his way than try to get him to see mine (that is something I would save for only very necessary times!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    SLE : "reality shows differently, so let's make a new model fitting better"
    LSE : "prosedures say it is like that, so your observations are likely wrong"
    SLE : " you are kidding me? Look at reality, you'll see it's not like the procedures say"
    LSE : " your observations are likely wrong, as I said, prosedures say it is like that"
    SLE : "facepalm! Are you serious?"
    LSE : " procedures sa..."
    SLE: "ok, I got it..."
    LSE : "about time..."

    Frustrating and less intelligent people, who get too much credit. That's how I feel about LSEs. It seems that's how most people feel about their quasi-identicals? Quasi-identical relationship is probably the worst intertype relationship when it comes to working together in any way. It can be cool for social settings and joking around, when nothing has to be achieved, but at work or in relationship the quasi-identical is ass first.
    I don't see LSEs talking very much about what procedures say. I see them as being very attentive to objective reality and able to change their views if experience shows that other view is better. I think you are biased in this. LSEs like to command and have control, but in this dialogue, I would say that strict adherence to 'what procedures say' is a Ti thing, adherence to rules, to a particular system, and for exaample in a company where the LSE and LSI work together the LSI is more likely to be demanding of 'following procedures'. The LSE will skip or ignore them if he thinks he can get to the result faster and with less waste of energy and time. The LSI will strictly adhere to such procedures. The SLE probably will adhere to procedures in a manner more likely to the LSE, but using instead his own willpower and his own view to 'just get there' to the result.

    Ananke, don't you think you're putting qualities of Ni into Te in your previous posts? The ability to recognize reccurring trends of events and assume that they will happen again if they happened in the past, the ability to recognize whatever is recurrent is an Ni trait, not Te imhk... (this means in my humble knowledge).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    @Agarina Do you have examples of how you interact with SLE???
    Like this
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Maritsa, do you mean #12 here in this thread?? I liked that. Its also confusing me. I thought I gave process directions to my SEE and she is Process. I am having a SEE friend come back and work for me soon but I want to make my expectations clearer. I feel I have so few expectations (for her caretaking for my mother) that the very few I give should be followed. So I explain carefully what I want, and she doesn't do it or does it for a while and stops. I thought it was my too-brief directions, so I got detailed. But she still didn't follow through. I am wondering how to approach her. She is SEE, "process".

    Yes, this would describe my SLE son and I do find it best to just do things his way than try to get him to see mine (that is something I would save for only very necessary times!).
    SEE get distracted by other things Eliza and need someone who directs them with (follows them around and keeps telling them what is important to do or does it themselves). They don't like mundane and uncreative things usually.

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    I have an interesting story about how Te works...

    Some time ago, when I was dating online, I was VIing and favoriting all the LSE. One of them sent me a message and asked me if I would like to txt. I said "sure." So in our very first text he asked "do you have any recent photos of you?" To which my reply was nothing at first and he came back with "? any pics" I sent him two recent pics of myself then realized that the reason why I didn't respond so enthusiastically was because his request offended me and I felt (ugh my Fi ugh) that this was uncustomary and rude behavior. I made a judgement that men should not ask such things of women and it was wrong. "Yeah, I'm not really that interested in talking to you any more. I really don't find asking someone for recent photos an appropriate way to approach a potential interest," was my response. He said, "my last date [previous experience] used [action] photo shop on her profile. Sorry if I have offended you." I though damn right you did offend me and thought "really? eff you!!!" - reaction -reaction -reaction....I ventured to repress my reaction as to facilitate communication (hah!). I told him, "it's not good practice to apply one situation from you past [Te-objective law/method derived from experience] to every situation in the future. I set out to teach this young LSE about the mistakes of this kind of behavior, but it's just so so common with ALL LSE and they can't escape it. It's like if they even have the slightest incling that the pot might boil over even if it never will or that they make a lot of assumptions based on what they think may happen they make a lot of mistakes by forgoing good things. He lost out on a dual and I had no desire to pursue someone who didn't put Education + Brains + Good family + Great human values and etiquette into himself to better his approach and response to humans as my boyfriend has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    SEE get distracted by other things Eliza and need someone who directs them with (follows them around and keeps telling them what is important to do or does it themselves). They don't like mundane and uncreative things usually.
    Sounds like what you write about in LSE-EII dualization

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daft21 View Post
    Sounds like what you write about in LSE-EII dualization
    ILI are quite adapt at telling people what to do. my mom is one she follows my actions and says "honey, you don't take care of what's most important" NiTe...critic!!! and then she says "you should do your paperwork now or else I've read you can get into serious trouble." In her preacher like way.

    And, I must add...she keeps repeating herself
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-31-2013 at 03:58 AM.

  27. #27
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    SEE get distracted by other things Eliza and need someone who directs them with (follows them around and keeps telling them what is important to do or does it themselves). They don't like mundane and uncreative things usually.
    So I just have to keep on her reminding her, like I do with special ed kids or with my Mom, kindly, and pretending as if I have not already said it plainly several times? I was afraid that repetition woudl annoy her, but, maybe she does need it because of distraction.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    So I just have to keep on her reminding her, like I do with special ed kids or with my Mom, kindly, and pretending as if I have not already said it plainly several times? I was afraid that repetition woudl annoy her, but, maybe she does need it because of distraction.
    yeah, come take lessons from my mother

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I have an interesting story about how Te works...

    ...I had no desire to pursue someone who didn't put Education + Brains + Good family + Great human values and etiquette into himself to better his approach and response to humans as my boyfriend has.
    We all have our things we won't compromise on. For me it was proven character...Its better than gold.

    I am sure you have this in your boyfriend too, he sounds great.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    yeah, come take lessons from my mother
    Special ed kids are so harassed from a life of people always being exasperated with them that you have to be an excellent actor, repeating yourself calmly as if you never said it before, or that its so normal to say it again and again... I think I will try this approach. Make a short bottom-line list, and it will be my job to repeat it, and be thankful every time she has done it...

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    not a bumblebee octo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananke View Post
    Frustrating and less intelligent people, who get too much credit. That's how I feel about LSEs. It seems that's how most people feel about their quasi-identicals?
    That's how I feel about LSEs I would describe EIIs as overly sensitive and too easy to accidentally offend. Is it just hatin' on the Demonstrative function (Te in your case, Fi in mine)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    Idk, I feel the opposite way entirely about LSI. They are very open to bending the rules, and their method of "imposition" on others does not take the form of holding others up to a invisible (not physical) set of rules. They exert/seek to exert control over objects, and with this, indirectly move people around too. The LSE type seeks to exert control over people (Si-creative, withholding rewards), and this is where pestering people over following the rules comes into play. Dear god, if that type of shit isn't LSE, idk what is.
    i agree that having strong Ti would mean having the finesse to bend them

    and yes LSEs are annoying like that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I have an interesting story about how Te works...

    Some time ago, when I was dating online, I was VIing and favoriting all the LSE. One of them sent me a message and asked me if I would like to txt. I said "sure." So in our very first text he asked "do you have any recent photos of you?" To which my reply was nothing at first and he came back with "? any pics" I sent him two recent pics of myself then realized that the reason why I didn't respond so enthusiastically was because his request offended me and I felt (ugh my Fi ugh) that this was uncustomary and rude behavior. I made a judgement that men should not ask such things of women and it was wrong. "Yeah, I'm not really that interested in talking to you any more. I really don't find asking someone for recent photos an appropriate way to approach a potential interest," was my response. He said, "my last date [previous experience] used [action] photo shop on her profile. Sorry if I have offended you." I though damn right you did offend me and thought "really? eff you!!!" - reaction -reaction -reaction....I ventured to repress my reaction as to facilitate communication (hah!). I told him, "it's not good practice to apply one situation from you past [Te-objective law/method derived from experience] to every situation in the future. I set out to teach this young LSE about the mistakes of this kind of behavior, but it's just so so common with ALL LSE and they can't escape it. It's like if they even have the slightest incling that the pot might boil over even if it never will or that they make a lot of assumptions based on what they think may happen they make a lot of mistakes by forgoing good things. He lost out on a dual and I had no desire to pursue someone who didn't put Education + Brains + Good family + Great human values and etiquette into himself to better his approach and response to humans as my boyfriend has.
    It must be exhausting being you. He just wanted to see if you were ugly or not before he paid for dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    It must be exhausting being you. He just wanted to see if you were ugly or not before he paid for dinner.
    Yup.

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    Holy soap box. Girl, I'm just as kooky so I can't blame you for that, and I am actually a fan of yours so don't call me a hater.

    Frinking watch yourself, watch how you want the people around you to fit your minds eye view, cause girl, your lost. Your shitting on the wonderful opportunities to actually connect, actually make real friends, actually live that humanity on a minute to minute basis you seem to so often preach, because I can read desperation and loneliness there and believe me I get it. Let go. Your lost in your head. I am a little farther along and I will tell you, it's not worth the loneliness. Stop mentally controlling how you think the world should be, how you think relationships should be and excusing this deluded behavior by saying "it's the way I am (Fi)". It's not the way you are, it's the way you have chosen to believe you are. Break free. You seem so tightly wound and maybe I am wrong about that maybe you are mother fucking Teresa, but seriously who cares?! Who cares about being a saint when you are constantly right? Lonely being up there. Come back down, in your day to day life, come back down. It's okay to be lonely, or unsure of where you stand in life, or not know how you think you should behave, because of such and such psychological rule. In what ways has this socionics hijaked you, become a means of protecting yourself from a world that is out of your control? I see immense self control in you, that has gone twisted, and is now telling other people how they should behave. Instead of being self righteous, it could have been an opportunity to see in what ways your own mind desires control over the uncontrollable. Instead of saying I am so friendly, admit how unfriendly you are. Instead of telling people how saintly you are, just show them by actually being saintly. OR don't, because being humble is cool to. Fucking laugh more, loosen up, you really want to know about that duality? It's about bringing out the "joy of being" in each other, more so then any other duality. You are not someones teacher, you are not an all knowing powerful being. You are just human, just perfectly average and normal. And before you say back to me "take your own advice", I will say I do, I am just as guilty of these things you do and I am just as flawed. But at least I am aware of it, and my heart tells me you aren't. Maybe you are, but everything you write seems so...idk, just makes me sad. Makes me sad for me because I am here reading it, and sad for you because you are like a kid who still believes in Santa Claus and it's sweet, but also so naive and...sad. And I am not being mocking, or cruel. I just think that if you really want to start finding out about yourself, and you put forward some of your minds material publicly, then you are asking for what other people think, and this post is part of what I think.

    I'm writing this because I like you. Fucking take the word of this stranger to heart.

    In case there is any confusion, I am writing to you Ms. Dharma.
    Last edited by wacey; 11-02-2013 at 11:51 PM.
    "If this to end in fire, then we should all burn together. Watch the flames climb higher into the night."

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    imho: LSE will try to control not only people but especially people and also objects. LSI will control more objects than people, he will let people just be, but he himself has his own rules, his own set of views on how life should be lived, and he will instill this into his close family, like wife and sons, to a point of allowing them freedom, IF they follow the basics of his system. this is what I get from my LSI uncle and his relationship to my cousins. They have freedom and always had, but were instilled that they should emulate their father's view on life, otherwise bad things could happen, so they both emulate him very much. But not out of pressure as much as out of respect that his system for life actually seems to work fine (goob jobs, good income, good person though reserved and serious).

    The SLE and LSE can be hard to distinguish at first. Because: Te-leading in LSE is strong, but SLE has bursts of Te as demonstrative function. I think the main thing about the difference btw the two is their Si valuing or not. My SLE cousin has enough money to, but in his house there is actually no air-conditioning, which I just think "stupid" because he doesn't bother about being like in a frying pan here in Rio de Janeiro, while I bother very much, since it's too hot most of the year. So actually the Si is the big differential here with LSE-SLE.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    (Work) Relationships between ExTx types are rarely fruitful, in my experience. Identicals and quasi-identicals can often tolerate each other, identicals can be friends in a non-work setting, but in a work setting I've always noticed even somewhat indirect clashes (your typical ExTx will have a small group of "followers" where no other ExTx type is truly welcome, lest taking the spotlight in the decision making process). The exception being a large difference in age or experience.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    (Work) Relationships between ExTx types are rarely fruitful, in my experience. Identicals and quasi-identicals can often tolerate each other, identicals can be friends in a non-work setting, but in a work setting I've always noticed even somewhat indirect clashes (your typical ExTx will have a small group of "followers" where no other ExTx type is truly welcome, lest taking the spotlight in the decision making process). The exception being a large difference in age or experience.
    If this is true I am really SLI because I don't tolerate SLE as well as LSI . The SLE seems a big immature person who wants to show off and look like he's above everyone else. They like to look they're on top. I find this personally irritating and silly. The LSI doesn't like to look that way , at least not that much, imo the LSI is a Beta who tries to be a good person, of course being Beta he eventually fails but he tries and this is good. lol

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    If delta is considered good I would much rather be evil beta


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    Quote Originally Posted by JadaeRat View Post
    You just contradicted yourself with X holier than thou is better than Y holier than thou.....
    I do not understand what you are trying to say here, please type in English language.

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