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Thread: Heartlessness

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    Default Heartlessness.

    I've been thinking a lot about this concept this year. What does it mean to you to be heartless? How do you feel when someone calls you heartless? HEARTLESS whore! I have so many thoughts, I don't even know where to begin. 1. Heartlessness is in the eye of the beholder. 2. How do you know if you are? 3. Projection and manipulation in relationships.

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    A dusty and dreadful charade. Scapegrace's Avatar
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    Calling someone a whore is heartless.
    "[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan

    Brought to you by socionix.com

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    I've never been called heartless so I don't have that experience to draw from, although I think of the term as a (perceived) inconsideration for others' circumstances and well-being.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scapegrace View Post
    Calling someone a whore is heartless.
    HOW DARE!

    Amber casts infinity of shadows, and my Avalon had cast many of its own, because of my presence there. I might be known on many earths that I had never trod, for shadows of myself had walked them, mimicking imperfectly my deeds and my thoughts.

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    Heartless pretty much refers to someone who isn't able to act on certain sensitive and unspoken feelings a person has or isn't willing to read into their emotions using guesswork, to put in effort to discover what is wrong with the person but rather the heartless person goes about doing something counter emotional. This would apply in a situation between SLI and SEI; where an SEI, using their Fe to "lighten a mood" make fun or tease a reaction out of an SLI who is experiencing something seriously and wants to be taken emotionally serious. An SEI can't help it be marry in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Heartless pretty much refers to someone who isn't able to act on certain sensitive and unspoken feelings a person has or isn't willing to read into their emotions using guesswork, to put in effort to discover what is wrong with the person but rather the heartless person goes about doing something counter emotional. This would apply in a situation between SLI and SEI; where an SEI, using their Fe to "lighten a mood" make fun or tease a reaction out of an SLI who is experiencing something seriously and wants to be taken emotionally serious. An SEI can't help it be marry in this case.
    Marista, I think there are much worse things in life than having feelings unattended to. Don't let your past relationships ruin the present. That is my advice on your sit.

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    Mermaid with Stellar views SyrupDeGem's Avatar
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    Actually though I think I see where she is coming from in terms of percieved heartlessness. It may be considered minimal by some typesbut huge by others and worse by some in certain types. For example I see a great deal of heart in ILI types (mostly) where many see nothing but metal and wires. However I genuinely see heartlessness (socio/phychopathy) in more SLE types than others.

    I'm sure it applies differently to different individuals and not just the perceived stereotypes.



    EDit: I have also been told on occaision that I am cold and heartless, by a couple of people who really meant it.

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminatronix View Post
    Actually though I think I see where she is coming from in terms of percieved heartlessness. It may be considered minimal by some typesbut huge by others and worse by some in certain types. For example I see a great deal of heart in ILI types (mostly) where many see nothing but metal and wires. However I genuinely see heartlessness (socio/phychopathy) in more SLE types than others.

    I'm sure it applies differently to different individuals and not just the perceived stereotypes.



    EDit: I have also been told on occaision that I am cold and heartless, by a couple of people who really meant it.
    *tears up* aw GEM! :>

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    the flying pig Capitalist Pig's Avatar
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    Heartlessness can manifest two different ways.

    There are heartless people, who I believe are actually quite rare. A heartless person is someone who absolutely does not care how their words, actions, and behaviors impact the people around them. The most extreme examples are individuals literally incapable of empathy, such as sociopaths or extreme borderline cases.

    It has been documented that brain lesions, such as the result of severe head trauma, or malignant tumors in specific regions of the brain, can cause this kind of psychopathology as well. People who were probably healthy and relatively well-adjusted before, suddenly lose all ability to empathize with others and become highly aggressive and violent. Such a malignant growth was found to have ailed Charles Whitman, who committed a mass shooting on a college campus in Austin, Texas in 1966.

    Then there are heartless actions. Heartless actions do not necessarily make a heartless person. I believe that honest, good-natured people are fully capable of appearing heartless through some utterly selfish act. People make mistakes, or they become so wound up in a moment that they deliberately make bad choices at the expense of their better judgment. Good people who become victims of heartless actions may end up doing something heartless in return for any number of reasons; like vengeance, fear, insecurity, or a feeling of entitlement.

    What separates the latter group from the truly heartless is that they're actually in touch with their emotions. The non-heartless, if you will, are fully capable of empathy, love, and remorse. They haven't been traumatized to the point of losing a permanent grip on their humanity. They have the capacity to reflect on heartless actions and make amends for that behavior, or even alter their future behavior for the better. They intuitively understand what it is to feel pain, guilt, and suffering.

    A truly heartless person may be intellectually aware that people have emotions, and are cognizant of the difference between right and wrong. Yet for some reason, they are unable to reconcile these things with their own experiential framework of human existence, except in the service of their own manipulative ends. Whatever limited range of emotional expression they might possess is really only a collection of conditioned responses that they think are appropriate to the situation. Some may not even attempt to conceal their emotional detachment at all. However, their lack of emotional depth will betray them every time.

     
    sry couldn't resist

    Last edited by Capitalist Pig; 10-17-2013 at 10:29 AM. Reason: i am never satisfied with my finished products

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    Mermaid with Stellar views SyrupDeGem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlacentaCake View Post
    *tears up* aw GEM! :>
    Be's careful with mallows heart.... Wanna ummm hang out?

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Inattentive is more accurate than inability to listen, IMO. In the case of inability to listen, the person may have trouble processing certain info or may actually be preoccupied with other thought in which case the person expecting them to listen isn't being fair. So, they are able to listen physically and otherwise, it's just that they are distracted with other things.

    In my example it was more of a difference of emotions that was valued/devalued. While one wants to be marry, the other is asking for a serious return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlacentaCake View Post
    I've been thinking a lot about this concept this year. What does it mean to you to be heartless? How do you feel when someone calls you heartless? HEARTLESS whore! I have so many thoughts, I don't even know where to begin. 1. Heartlessness is in the eye of the beholder. 2. How do you know if you are? 3. Projection and manipulation in relationships.
    I agree with what CPig wrote, and I also think heartlessness is in the eye of the beholder.

    For example, my 17 1/2yo daughter might consider me heartless because I want her to clean her own dishes, clean her own room, wash/dry her own clothes, cook her own food, and get a job, instead of letting her play video games and chat all day. If I really loved her, and really cared about her, then I would do these things for her and give her money for junk food and games.

    Meanwhile, I might consider her a bit heartless in that she shows absolutely no appreciation for all the things we do for her, she shows no willingness to help around the home by taking care of her own stuff (letting it pile up until it makes homes for bugs), she ignores all the time and energy I have put in towards researching and finding ways to help her in different issues she has, and it feels like she just keeps taking and taking without giving anything in return. (There's a reason that she has very few friends and even her teacher's trained in her issues are exasperated by her constant 'taking'.) (Note, there is far more to the story, i was just giving some more benign examples and generalizations.)

    Basically, I think we are susceptible to calling "heartless" the behaviors of others that don't cater to our own wants/needs.

    How do you know if you are truly heartless? Is your conscience clear?
    * If you were to place yourself in another person's shoes, with their values/needs (not yours), can you see how your actions affected them?
    * If you look back at your actions and behaviors regarding that person, do you feel you could have done something differently? If so, what stopped you from doing that back then...and what stops you from doing that now?
    * If you refuse to do similar exercises as above, believing that it's not your problem/responsibility to even consider such things, then perhaps you are heartless ....towards them.

    But back again to...are you heartless towards them...or is this a pervading pattern?

    And, finally, if you were heartless, it probably wouldn't bother you to be called such.
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    Usually when someone starts harping on about people or me being heartless I can't help but worry that perhaps they have some kind of delusions or personality disorder. Accordingly I simply take two steps back and keep doing so until I can't hear them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae16t View Post
    FFS lol.
    Whhhattt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PlacentaCake View Post
    I've been thinking a lot about this concept this year. What does it mean to you to be heartless? How do you feel when someone calls you heartless? HEARTLESS whore! I have so many thoughts, I don't even know where to begin. 1. Heartlessness is in the eye of the beholder. 2. How do you know if you are? 3. Projection and manipulation in relationships.
    This is what literature labels as classic bipolar disorder, I think. Usually coupled with cyclonic mood swings, ranging from depression to party animal persona, rinse and repeat.

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    good definitions have been given already. my own perception of "heartlessness" is along the lines of establishing a positive relationship with somebody and then behaving towards them in a way that doesn't reflect that, like remorselessly ignoring their emotional world or hurting them emotionally for no discernable reason.

    i don't think i've ever been called heartless but i can think of times i might have been perceived as fitting the above description because i didn't actually have the emotional investment the other person wanted or perceived me to have. and i'm sure that certain times i've perceived other people as heartless its been the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Usually when someone starts harping on about people or me being heartless I can't help but worry that perhaps they have some kind of delusions or personality disorder.
    why?

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    I am heartless everyday!

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    I dont associate heartlessness with petty differences between people and the inability to be a decent human being....those people are just assholes.

    but to me, heartlessness is when someone is so cruel and violent that they actually intend to inflict pain.
    For example: Animal abusers, wife beaters, child killers, terrorists, and people who discriminate for any reason. (The list obviously can go on)

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    i get fairly uncomfortable when people throw the term around, not in the least b/c my (very-unhealthy-at-the-time) mother would often call me/ my dad heartless, unloving, etc, and then attack me w/ various objects. when i avoided her later on, she'd call me and tell me what a cold, abusive daughter i was for avoiding her, etc. as i result, i've developed an aversion to people willing to throw around the adjective, and (perhaps unfairly) are more wary of the person using that adjective than the person they are describing.

    about real heartlessness-- i think very few people few this way, to me. i've run into a few sociopathic seeming people along the years and they really confuse me, like I simply can't tell what the clockwork is beneath the veneer (and terrible things that they do.) but for the most part, even when people are being cruel, i don't think of them as "heartless," exactly; cruelty often seems like some response to/ reactivity towards feelings or associations, etc. dismissiveness is another thing, but again, not "heartless."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I've never been called heartless so I don't have that experience to draw from, although I think of the term as a (perceived) inconsideration for others' circumstances and well-being.
    Me neither. Maybe NFs do't get this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    why?
    It's a plea to ignorance.

    I much prefer when people can tell me what they think, rather than what they feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    It's a plea to ignorance.

    I much prefer when people can tell me what they think, rather than what they feel.
    "i think you are being heartless"


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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    "i think you are being heartless"

    Awww yeah



    The ladies love a heartless man with a hidden 'inner' heart. I know this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae16t View Post
    I lived with a roommate that accused me of only one thing, and it was this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-_a...ntext_cultures
    Basically 80% of humans come from "high context" cultures.
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post

    The ladies love a heartless man with a hidden 'inner' heart. I know this.
    NO

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I am heartless everyday!
    I would heat it up and eat it. Same for liver if you're ever feel the need to get rid of them, officially, and legally, of course. Thing is, you don't need stuff you don't use, and that goes for every one reading this, so don't hate or something.

    A bit of onions, pepper, salt, and it is fine.
    Last edited by Absurd; 10-17-2013 at 05:19 PM.

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    @lemontrees
    With experiences like that, it's no wonder the term makes you uncomfortable.
    Fwiw, from what I have seen of you on the forum, I cannot at all imagine you as heartless or even close to it.

    @OP
    It's pretty obvious from the responses to this thread that each person has their own criteria for how that term might be used, ranging from sociopathic behavior to incompatibility.

    I have to admit, though, that I would prefer to hear the term "heartless" being used to label someone or their actions rather than an armchair diagnosis using a psychiatric disorder label. The former leaves things open for discussion, clarification, and potential resolution of problems. While the latter serves little more than to end discussion and seems to seek to lay blame rather than to solve problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    NO
    YES Confirmed and Final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    ...
    those who are not heartless but take those actions realize they've hut someone and to me a heartfelt action is perseverance of relational bonds

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae16t View Post
    Thx, China.
    Low order cultures are way better because heartless people have more initiative.

    *controversy*

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    The ladies love a heartless man with a hidden 'inner' heart
    I also love a heartless woman with a hidden 'inner' heart

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    Quote Originally Posted by nigh View Post
    I also love a heartless woman with a hidden 'inner' heart
    Me 2.

    Hearts are important, but nothing beats some good solid reliability and trust based on the actions of a person.

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    I would liek to go into business with people who don't need their organs. PM me.

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    Being heartless to me is just a strategic stance in a given context. That said, I don't go out of my way to seek out such situations just for the hell of it, but sometimes they just find me.
    Last edited by Remiel; 10-17-2013 at 08:38 PM.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ― Thucydides

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae16t View Post
    I wish you'd make more posts like this :]
    Thanks, I wish I had the energy and drive to make more posts like that.

    But I'm already of the opinion that I screwed that post up. There's a lot of ground that I left uncovered. There are at least a couple of points that I had in mind when writing that post that I think I could have spent more time emphasizing. Oh well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capitalist Pig View Post
    Thanks, I wish I had the energy and drive to make more posts like that.

    But I'm already of the opinion that I screwed that post up. There's a lot of ground that I left uncovered. There are at least a couple of points that I had in mind when writing that post that I think I could have spent more time emphasizing. Oh well...
    The problem with writing posts is there usually ARE points that didnt come to mind at that moment, or the writer later sees ways they could have reworded some parts. But when is enough enough? If you aim for perfection, you'll never get anywhere, never finish anything, never even start anything, cuz it can always be perfected more. Pfffft.

    You mentioned some good points, which got some readers thinking and some nodding in agreement. What more do you want from a post?
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae16t View Post
    Thx, China.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Usually when someone starts harping on about people or me being heartless I can't help but worry that perhaps they have some kind of delusions or personality disorder. Accordingly I simply take two steps back and keep doing so until I can't hear them.
    lolol YES.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae16t View Post
    Its a part to of the process of lyfe.

    LYFEEE.

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