In my observation, people who want their boundaries observed just want to be in power and they don't really know how to relate to someone in their space except for on their terms which translates into narcissism....Eliza, I think you were right.
In my observation, people who want their boundaries observed just want to be in power and they don't really know how to relate to someone in their space except for on their terms which translates into narcissism....Eliza, I think you were right.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That is not a very logical correlation. People who have boundaries, are typically healthy individuals with a strong sense of self. Those with NPD, are completely unaware of their boundaries and other's boundaries because narcissists see other people as extensions of themselves. I have no idea where you are getting your information, but it can't be from any book or article on narcissism.
Oh yeah... I do think that narcissists see others as extensions of themselves hence they create or strive to create an environment which encloses or shuts out others as they see safe and fitting for them hence returning to the concept that it's about boundaries and power.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 10-12-2013 at 06:31 PM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
nope.
Maritsa is close, actually. Narcissists can and will use boundaries as a manipulation tactic. It’s just not as cut and dry as she is stating.
I think you're not doing a very good job of getting your point across @Maritsa
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
details are not required. This is about the general picture of what is going on. If your impression of someone is static, than any number of factors will not change how you see them and their activity and you can apply a reasoning or rational for what they do, hence this is a general look.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Yes, by virtue of not seeing others as separate personalities with a will of their own, they seek to adjoin them resulting in formation of cults of personality where the N is treated like a guru, bestowing his extensive knowledge or insights to his flock. This may be a real cult, but as Sam Vaknin, the author of one of the most well-known books on NPD, has pointed out that with all the proliferation of social networking and online communities these mini-cults now spring up online. (The Cult of the Narcissist.) This 'in-group' preferably gets isolated from the outsides by the N who will use any means possible to depict those who didn't conform to the rule of N's ego in inferior and demeaning light, eject them from the group, distance his followers, play them and set them against people who could have opened their eyes to the truth of what's going on.
Their followers in the end are misled, lied to, and used as narcissistic supply and fodder to N's ego, and when they finally proverbially get their teeth kicked in by the N and realize that they have been manipulated, they go complaining about it their blogs and forums, how they didn't realize what has been going on and didn't see it coming. Some of them, however, will repeat this if given the chance, because as Vaknin pointed out these sycophantic cohorts get drawn into N's supply circle and continue propping N's ego due to personality issues of their own (weak boundaries, dependent personality, propensity for idealization/idolization, etc.)
She's not doing a very good job of getting her thoughts across, but Ns are usually aware that they cannot extend themselves indefinitely, they eventually run into people who don't agree to play along or who see behind their mask of congeniality, and then Ns often respond by setting up a protective barrier between whoever they managed to attract and 'the outsiders', resulting in creation of personality cult groups (though sometimes it's not a group but only one person that the N separates from their family and friends and locks into himself). That's what Maritsa is trying to get at I think.
Oh my...
Its totally pointless to talk about healthy and unhealthy boundaries and the degree to which someone protects them outside of the specific context and its equally pointless to throw narcissism into the mix. Maybe you are just not getting why someone feels like s/he has to establish such boundaries.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Agreed.
We're given a generic scenario where:
person A sets personal boundaries and asks person B to respect those boundaries,
But person B wants those boundaries to not be there and tries to push past them,
Who is the supposed narcissist? Person A for wanting the boundary? or person B for wanting to push past them?
Who wants the power? A for his/her own boundaries? or B for disrespecting the boundaries and wanting them gone?
It seems to me that if we are to call A power-hungry and narcissitic, then B would be just as equally so.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
it makes one a narcissist to want one's boundaries to be respected? can you explain yourself here?
if person A sets boundaries and person B steamrolls over them it's very clear who is the 'power-hungry' aggressor in this scenario going for the extra 'pie' (B) and who is going to have to defend themselves from unjustified aggression and invasion of their personality (A)
yet you are saying that these are equivalent?
First, the OP gave the generic scenario and accused A of being the power hungry and narcistic one, not I.
I was pointing out that B could just as easily be accused of the same thing.
Edited to add a reminder of what OP said
Boundary setter A gets accused of wanting power and being narcistic.In my observation, people who want their boundaries observed just want to be in power and they don't really know how to relate to someone in their space except for on their terms which translates into narcissism....Eliza, I think you were right.
Again, person A (the boundary setter) is accused of wanting power and being narcistic.Oh yeah... I do think that narcissists see others as extensions of themselves hence they create or strive to create an environment which encloses or shuts out others as they see safe and fitting for them hence returning to the concept that it's about boundaries and power.
Last edited by anndelise; 10-13-2013 at 03:05 AM.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
And despite them being dangerous individuals, the behaviour described in the post above should inspire more sadness than anger.
There are plenty of narcissists on this forum who reject the idea of negotiating solid and sensible boundaries. The mostly yell 'Narcissist!' when challenged.
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I think people know exactly what they are doing. Its just that everyone is the hero in their own story. You need to stop giving people the benefit of the doubt Maritsa.
People are actually simple but are driven by direct and indirect hopes and fears. They can be remarkably direct when you remove the fluff and magic fairy dust around the edges.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
But at the same time, being made a mod means being given power/status associated with mods.
So, wouldn't Wanting to be a mod mean that person Wants the power/status associated with mods?
Personally, I don't care for being labeled as a mod, nor do I want the responsibilities associated with it. And if I went into a room where people kept kicking me out or banning me, then why on earth would I want to keep going in there? I certainly wouldn't want to push my presence onto them if they so obviously don't want it.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Yes, why would someone want to go into a room full of juvenile bullies? Good question.
I don’t know if it’s what you intended @Maritsa, but I’ve observed some interesting/manipulative behavior amongst forum members in this thread and learned a bit from it perhaps.
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna