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Thread: Rationals vs Irrationals (No gulenko temperaments though)

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    Default Rationals vs Irrationals (No gulenko temperaments though)

    Whats the core difference between rationals and irrationals? I find the notion that, rationals are quick to judge or that irrationals take their time, somewhat shallow and confusing. Gulenko's temperments aren't that helpful either with their bias that rationals work harder than irrationals. There is a strong bias against the IP temparemnt I think he believes that all IPs are enneagram 9 which is total bull in reallife. I'm a 5w6 3w4 1w9 Sx type by the way, and furthermore the quadra values don't match me at all since I'm Alpha, Gamma and a little Beta in reality. Delta's somewhat enneagram 9 and the seemingly So orientation baffles me the most.
    Last edited by Soupman; 10-06-2013 at 02:56 PM.

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    hmm..

    The idea is that irrationals are comfortable with their direct perceptions of the world. They see a raw reality. This gives them advantages during stress events, like getting punched in the nose or finding out your house is on fire. They tend to handle those situations very well. They also tend to speak more often by the use of analogues.

    Rationals are over-writing the rawness of the world with their judgement. This makes them jumpy, more strict and often more focused. They tend to articulate what their intentions are with more directness than irrationals.

    I believe I am rational because a lot of people on the forum think that I am one!

    irrationals are supposed to have a variable mood. Rationals are supposed to have a consistent mood.
    Last edited by Saberstorm; 10-06-2013 at 04:33 AM.
     
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    yeah, those are very biased. You have to type by description of functions in pairs like Se (for Sense in the Extraversion) here's a good link:

    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    http://www.socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml

    Please see this link...
    Take for instance a LSI vs an SLI. The LSI is mentally focused on maintaining and enforcing a mental system and order of things and uses his to keep those things in order.
    The SLI is focused on the body in relation to its operation with the environment. He uses to keep his body functioning well. The SLI is moreso in his body, while the LSI is moreso in his mind. Si is a homeostatic biorhythm function while Ti is an abstract logical interrelation function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jughead View Post
    http://www.socionics.us/theory/rat_irr.shtml

    Please see this link...
    Take for instance a LSI vs an SLI. The LSI is mentally focused on maintaining and enforcing a mental system and order of things and uses his to keep those things in order.
    The SLI is focused on the body in relation to its operation with the environment. He uses to keep his body functioning well. The SLI is moreso in his body, while the LSI is moreso in his mind. Si is a homeostatic biorhythm function while Ti is an abstract logical interrelation function.
    I find that terrible because it does not really factor real real people as the are observed. Also I don't use model a, but rather the energomodel by gulenko which has TiSi as SLI and LSI strongest functions. I have been finding this consistent with reality in studies.

    Quadra stereotypes are terrible frankly, btw I study socionics largely in Russian since the English stuff is bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    hmm..

    The idea is that irrationals are comfortable with their direct perceptions of the world. They see a raw reality. This gives them advantages during stress events, like getting punched in the nose or finding out your house is on fire. They tend to handle those situations very well. They also tend to speak more often by the use of analogues.

    Rationals are over-writing the rawness of the world with their judgement. This makes them jumpy, more strict and often more focused. They tend to articulate what their intentions are with more directness than irrationals.

    I believe I am rational because a lot of people on the forum think that I am one!

    irrationals are supposed to have a variable mood. Rationals are supposed to have a consistent mood.
    I still need to fully analyse and examine what the whole notion of overwriting reality really means. The difficulty thing is that everyone both forms rational and perceives the world. Those are relatively consistent facts.

    Interesting though sadly such vague premises like the mood example are what I'm still having trouble with. What I'm seeking is core consistent facts that can assess real people and produce a reliable insight that is subject to the least perception bias possible.
    Last edited by Soupman; 10-07-2013 at 01:38 AM. Reason: dyslexic typing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    I still need to fully analyse and examine what the whole notion of overwriting reality really means. The difficulty thing is that everyone both forms rational and perceives the world. Those are relatively consistent facts.
    Interesting though sadly such vague premises like the mood example are what I'm still having trouble with. What I'm seeking are core condistent facts that can assess real people and produce a reliable insight that is subject to the least perception bias possible.
    I would have to refer you to Jung's personality types. I was trying to paraphrase Jung.

    I do not think we can give you that type of detailed feedback. We are not paid instructors. We have no experimental lab here on 16types. This is an financially unsupported pursuit. People here will write responses that are brief and will use an informal language rather than a specific scientific formulation of an idea. The forum is open, and not narrowed to professional inquiry.

    Thus, the notion of "overwriting reality" is my paraphrase of Jung and "consistent mood" is my paraphrase of Reinin.
    Last edited by Saberstorm; 10-06-2013 at 04:15 PM.
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    I find that terrible because it does not really factor real real people as the are observed. Also I don't use model a, but rather the energomodel by gulenko which has TiSi as SLI and LSI strongest functions. I have been finding this consistent with reality in studies.

    Quadra stereotypes are terrible frankly, btw I study socionics largely in Russian since the English stuff is bad
    Model A uses the same function strength = Both SLI and LSI have strength in Si Ti Se Te. These are at the same levels, they differ in the role these strengths play out in social interaction. Gulenko's system uses Model A as its base. The SLI is using Si as the base for accepting information from the world and that looks just like what Jughead describes. "The SLI is focused on the body in relation to its operation with the environment." The LSI is using Ti as his base of accepting information from the world. "The LSI is mentally focused on maintaining and enforcing a mental system and order of things and uses his to keep those things in order." However, each has the same abilities with Si and Ti - they differ in how they bring those strengths to bear.
     
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    There is no difference, is just a matter of different personality traits. More specifically, you can't really say that a positivist-extraverted-democratic rational is particularly similar to an introverted-negativist-democratic rational. For example an ISFj is more similar to an INTp than to an ESFj or ENTj.
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    Right, I fully support mfckr's position. You will hardly learn something useful about rationality and irrationality from reading type descriptions. Read Jung instead.
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    Those paragraphs became exceedingly complex to me so irrationally I describe them as people who act and do shit based off a huge list of presupposed reasons (known knowns rationals) vs those who just are based on what they percieve. Computers vs biologicals kind of in a stereotypical way.

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