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Thread: Narrative awareness, Ne and Ni

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    chairpersonality Holon's Avatar
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    Default Narrative awareness, Ne and Ni

    I may have already made this thread...

    Anyway, I recently had an interesting drug experience, and it's got me thinking about narratives. A severe overdose on Terrence McKenna may or may not have anything to do with the following words.

    I'm defining "narrative" here as "imagined links between cause and effect that produce a sense of cohesion". For example, you may look at someone's behaviour and say "x and y and z happened in their life, and on this occasion their state is being altered by w event, so that's why they're acting like that". This would be forming a narrative that justifies their actions to you. Similarly, you could imagine an identity for yourself (or others, or groups of people) based on a series of processes, occasions, and systems. For instance, my own narrative is one of a collection of self- and outward relationships evolved by outward antagonism and misunderstanding* down branching paths and into isolated processes with only nominal awareness of other such processes; and with various junctures associated to catalytic occasions.

    *such a narrative can be compared to the complex of an "outsider hero", like Superman or Wolverine.

    Like with my Mysticism thread, my questions are thus: to what extent can or be said to "own" narrative intelligence? Alternatively, in what ways do each IM manifest a narrative intelligence? Do other IMs, such as , have narrative intelligence, or do they simply exhibit "narrative agency" which may involve others and the self in a narrative, without reflecting on it?

    inb4 Esaman evicting me from LII again.

    inb4 everybody avoids a thread with the word "narrative" in the title

    scribbles in the dark

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    lump's Avatar
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    i associate those narrative links with Pi. maybe i'll say more later if i feel like digging around in my brain for the words.

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    I agree with lungs about associating that with Pi.
    But i add a warning to not think that that means ego Pi, nor mental>vital Pi.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    lump's Avatar
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    i believe this thread is relevant to your interests:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...nvolvement-etc

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Fe - narrative agency

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    Idiot Iris's Avatar
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    I don't even know what any of you are talking about. Sigh.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    That's and .

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    lump's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    I don't even know what any of you are talking about. Sigh.
    i imagine a beaded necklace. with extroverted static elements being the beads and introverted dynamic elements being the string.

    i remember something aiss said once about ni/se and i'm sure i'm not going to paraphrase quite right but something like... somebody shows up to the register at a store with condoms, whipped cream, and a rubber chicken (se) what is the clerk going to think it's for (ni). Pe sees the objects and Pi provides context (or "narrative")

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i remember something aiss said once about ni/se and i'm sure i'm not going to paraphrase quite right but something like... somebody shows up to the register at a store with condoms, whipped cream, and a rubber chicken (se) what is the clerk going to think it's for (ni). Pe sees the objects and Pi provides context (or "narrative")
    And how would that work with Ne + Si? Just that Ne provides ideas/opportunities and Si choose which is the best?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater View Post
    Axis of Evil: Iran, Iraq, North Korea and Agarina
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa Darmandzhyan
    Agarina does not like human beings; she just wants a pretty boy toy.
    Johari Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    I don't even know what any of you are talking about. Sigh.
    Don't worry I never get agss's posts.

    @lungs how come ni is the narrative agency and not fe, as Maritsa says?

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Grain of a Song of Sand View Post
    inb4 Esaman evicting me from LII again.
    "inb4" is used to preemptively address expected comments. You did not do the addressing part. Something which would sting an eye of a person conscious of Ti.
    Proper use:
    inb4 you think I am going after your throat- I like you.

    Narrative is linear progression. Ni people are best at pattern in time thing.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    ego Ni + logic (Te) makes you a narrator under reinin, although a russian once came on the forum saying a better translation is "declarer" as opposed to "asker".

    i think it somewhat trivially makes sense to associate Pi with narratives... Ni with a narrative addressing objective, real world, "out there", conditions since the ontologically objective is concrete in Ni/Se. Ni serving as the trigger or intuitive "clue" as to what is going on, the particulars of the experience not being the central focus but what it hints at in ontological reality. Si with a narrative addressing personal experiences in which the experience is the central focus and the possibilities as to their real world significance being secondary.

    ...this is also influenced by Focal/Diffuse in... complicating ways. the purest examples of the above are where Se and Si are Focal in addition to being "external"... here its basically about ranging over multiples of a concrete entity or singling them out... but in ranging over multiples the concreteness of the entity is diminished too...

    i should say this also concerns contexts more so than entities... Pi is context, Pe is subcontext, from the point of view of the observer. but you can turn around, take the point of view of the observed and reverse the roles of context and subcontext again...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    And how would that work with Ne + Si? Just that Ne provides ideas/opportunities and Si choose which is the best?
    Si doesn't so much create a narrative with Ne shards as glues or melts them to fit in to and expand the composition of sensibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    how come ni is the narrative agency and not fe, as Maritsa says?
    Because Ni is the method of taking fairly detached perspective and letting things run at their face value. Things happen and do their thing in Ni(ideal), other elements dissect and judge object one way or another, too much of that and what you get out is not a narrative.

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    chairpersonality Holon's Avatar
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    Rephrasing the initial post: is or the "storyteller" element? Which element between and is given to perceiving the world in terms of "stories" (literal or abstract; for instance being able to picture a "slow war" between trees, or ideologies) and "themes"? Do they both do this? In the same way, or with their own idiosyncrasies?

    Allow me to relate this to an individual who has been typed: Terrence McKenna. I can relate to him, as can the self-typed IEE @Raver. He has also been typed as dominant by @siuntal. It goes deeper, of course, as I've been compared to him directly (although for most people the popular comparison is to John Lennon--I guess the normal see an Outsider complex, the Outsiders an Itinerant Storyteller complex).

    Now, my question is where the ends and begins. For instance, TMcK seems to be a "storyteller". From what I've heard so far, he unites aspects of the world into a coherent story about wonder, uncertainty, and there being "more out there". This seems to relate to the theme of irreducible uncertainty.

    On the other hand, perhaps TMcK is merely a mirror within which we see those messages we most wish to see

    scribbles in the dark

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    Check out Timoth Levitch for artistically driven/expressive ILE for contrast. Expresses vision(s) not narratives.

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    silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Grain of a Song of Sand View Post
    Allow me to relate this to an individual who has been typed: Terrence McKenna. I can relate to him, as can the self-typed IEE @Raver. He has also been typed as dominant by @siuntal. It goes deeper, of course, as I've been compared to him directly (although for most people the popular comparison is to John Lennon--I guess the normal see an Outsider complex, the Outsiders an Itinerant Storyteller complex).
    If I had to explain this "storyteller complex" in terms of type, I would say that what you're seeing with Terrence McKenna has much more to do with him being type 9 (so/sp 9w1) rather than him being Ne dominant. The narrating style of type 9 is said to be that of 'saga', retelling stories and epics (link):

    TYPE 9: CHRONICLES/SAGAS/EPICS
    Recounting sagas, epics, generalizing, day-dreaming aloud, voicing vague notions, wondering, meandering
    Self-talk: ‘Nice ’n easy’

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    he died with a felafel
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    Ne- ?


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