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Thread: Reinin's book + How I learn Socionics

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    Default Reinin's book + How I learn Socionics.

    I know that my view of socionics is changing a lot.
    I often reset my knowledge and start anew.
    There are lots of olders post that I did that, yes, I didn't know what I was talking about.. Sorry about that.
    But everytime I think I got it, I try that knowledge in the field (my night shift in a convenience store gives me a lot of people to talk to about their way of life, and the way they see things).
    It didn't work very well, that is why I start anew a lot, but NOW!, now it works, Reinin's model of the function works like a charm.
    I'm the tester. I'm in the field. I'm center stage at my work. I explain functions to anyone who will listen, and try to see what are their values, that is how my understanding of socionics progresses.

    My logic is 1 dimention, I have to see it to assimilate it. That makes my logic better then someone who takes risks with it, IMO.
    I learn unconsciously, I read a lot, and assimilate only what I understand, I can read the same texts lots of times, at different times and understand them at my pace.
    Also, I need help with Ne, the method to get from A to B.
    I'm lucky that most texts about socionics explains the stuff in the right order.
    I know I study randomly, trying to get, I don't know, let's say today it's dichotomies.
    Tomorrow, I don't know.(Vortical thinking for you )
    I think I have all of the articles about theorie in paper at home, read them all, I don't remember everything, but links happen automaticly in my head.
    It's hard for me to learn step by step, I have to test the knowledge immediatly to get it.

    And talking about Ni as critisizim of the way of life of people, and Ne as the way to get from A to B, also, the good (first function) as linked to your existence, and the bad (7th) makes so much sense when I ask people about it:
    Some LII at my work as his own logic, if you ask him to change his logic, or that his logic is wrong, he wont acknowledge it. Also, he believes in God because if doesn't need facts to believe, Needing facts(Te) is evil to him.
    A Ni leading lady at my work, she thinks she knows why people do what they do, its because of the memories of your soul that comes into your body when you are born, and this soul gets more memories and goes back to the plane of souls(idk), and she is convinced about that, I can't make her change her mind about it, and she even has a hard time explaining it to me, but still believe it.
    A Ne leading guy buys a Monster energy drink every morning, even if they are in special (only if you buy 2, you save 2$, but buy one and its the regular price) I have tried to make him change his mind and take two, he never did. That is leading Ne, can't change the way he does things or else you destroy the very fondation of his soul and being.
    A Te leading friend knows he's intelligent. Can't argue with him about that because he takes an IQ test every month or so, he believe the facts are higher then anything.
    Who else.. Yeah, I got this cooworker. Got a leading Fi. That is weird, he is in love right now, with a girl from work. He knows he loves her, but can't see that she doesn't like him like that. Oblivious to Fe, but certain about what he loves, it also makes him racist and very judgemental about who is good and who is bad. (I don't get a along to well with him.)
    I got leading Fe, so oblivious to Fi, and at first I was puzzled by his certainty about his feelings, I tried to make him douth(she is not your dual) but he doesn't listen, also, I kinda admired him for this because I am never 100% in love with a girl. I douth my love often.
    Bla, read the book people, forget all you think you know about Ne and Ni, and focus on the "General Characteristic of Functions in the Structure of IM Type" Page 7. (function 3 is the 4th one in the model A, its a little confusion at first, but when you read about your type you'll get it)

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    William changes type often!

     
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    Socionics -
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    Just trying to keep the peace.
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
    - John Piper


    Socionics -
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    "Yeah, I got this cooworker. Got a leading Fi. That is weird, he is in love right now, with a girl from work. He knows he loves her, but can't see that she doesn't like him like that. Oblivious to Fe, but certain about what he loves..."

    Sorry Destroypuppy, but I'm leading Fi and I know If someone likes me or not. It is part of Fi. I'm not oblivious of Fe (harmony between people), I just don't find it important...

    "Fi is responsible for understanding the quality, nature, and proper maintenance of personal relations; makes moral judgments; and aspires to humanism and kindness. Fi has a strong understanding of the social hierarchy and how people feel about each other, their attitudes of like or dislike, enthrallment or disgust, repulsion or attraction, enmity or friendship."

    "When this perceptual element (Fi) is in the leading position, the individual possesses the innate ability to perceive and evaluate wishes/desires — both his own and others'. He always knows who wants what from whom."
    Last edited by serenity; 10-01-2013 at 05:48 AM. Reason: adding info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Destroypuppy View Post
    I know that my view of socionics is changing a lot.
    I often reset my knowledge and start anew.
    There are lots of olders post that I did that, yes, I didn't know what I was talking about.. Sorry about that.
    But everytime I think I got it, I try that knowledge in the field (my night shift in a convenience store gives me a lot of people to talk to about their way of life, and the way they see things).
    It didn't work very well, that is why I start anew a lot, but NOW!, now it works, Reinin's model of the function works like a charm.
    I'm the tester. I'm in the field. I'm center stage at my work. I explain functions to anyone who will listen, and try to see what are their values, that is how my understanding of socionics progresses.

    My logic is 1 dimention, I have to see it to assimilate it. That makes my logic better then someone who takes risks with it, IMO.
    I learn unconsciously, I read a lot, and assimilate only what I understand, I can read the same texts lots of times, at different times and understand them at my pace.
    Also, I need help with Ne, the method to get from A to B.
    I'm lucky that most texts about socionics explains the stuff in the right order.
    I know I study randomly, trying to get, I don't know, let's say today it's dichotomies.
    Tomorrow, I don't know.(Vortical thinking for you )
    I think I have all of the articles about theorie in paper at home, read them all, I don't remember everything, but links happen automaticly in my head.
    It's hard for me to learn step by step, I have to test the knowledge immediatly to get it.

    And talking about Ni as critisizim of the way of life of people, and Ne as the way to get from A to B, also, the good (first function) as linked to your existence, and the bad (7th) makes so much sense when I ask people about it:
    Some LII at my work as his own logic, if you ask him to change his logic, or that his logic is wrong, he wont acknowledge it. Also, he believes in God because if doesn't need facts to believe, Needing facts(Te) is evil to him.
    A Ni leading lady at my work, she thinks she knows why people do what they do, its because of the memories of your soul that comes into your body when you are born, and this soul gets more memories and goes back to the plane of souls(idk), and she is convinced about that, I can't make her change her mind about it, and she even has a hard time explaining it to me, but still believe it.
    A Ne leading guy buys a Monster energy drink every morning, even if they are in special (only if you buy 2, you save 2$, but buy one and its the regular price) I have tried to make him change his mind and take two, he never did. That is leading Ne, can't change the way he does things or else you destroy the very fondation of his soul and being.
    A Te leading friend knows he's intelligent. Can't argue with him about that because he takes an IQ test every month or so, he believe the facts are higher then anything.
    Who else.. Yeah, I got this cooworker. Got a leading Fi. That is weird, he is in love right now, with a girl from work. He knows he loves her, but can't see that she doesn't like him like that. Oblivious to Fe, but certain about what he loves, it also makes him racist and very judgemental about who is good and who is bad. (I don't get a along to well with him.)
    I got leading Fe, so oblivious to Fi, and at first I was puzzled by his certainty about his feelings, I tried to make him douth(she is not your dual) but he doesn't listen, also, I kinda admired him for this because I am never 100% in love with a girl. I douth my love often.
    Bla, read the book people, forget all you think you know about Ne and Ni, and focus on the "General Characteristic of Functions in the Structure of IM Type" Page 7. (function 3 is the 4th one in the model A, its a little confusion at first, but when you read about your type you'll get it)
    Heh, it's early and i'm grumpy so I'm not going to resist this:

    I touroughly dislike your posts... You communicate in a way that I can understand, pretty directly to my way of understanding, and than....I judge it to be utter garbage. I've got this with every post. There is some lack of congruence or consistency on level behind the words that make me go utterly insane and angry. I feel like summoning the @mrni 's and the @Absurd's of this world to smack you down and give you a reality check.

    /venting

    so.. that wasn't too constructive. TBH, I can't even react to the content so i'm going to see wether I can get something constructive out of this for you anyway.

    One thing I notice is that your framing of your understanding changed after you changed from Ile to Ese. It seems you're desperately trying to show your ESE'ness now downplaying stuff that could be considered ILE characterestics.

    Now mind you, I'm not saying I understand this stuff (socionics) as I don't.Not even saying you're not ESE. I'm just commenting on the fact that you're imho confusing and mixing two different projects.

    A you're searching for identity (what's my type)

    B you're trying to understand socionics for others.

    It seems you're stuck in a feedback loop with a lot of confirmation bias which mixes project A and B. If you keep doing this you'll never get clarity on either project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    Absurd's of this world to smack you down and give you a reality check.
    Let him take that Reinin test if he is so keen on Reinin.

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    Yeah, let's stick to B for a while.
    I think i'm LII for now, and my first language is french, so yeah, sometimes my sentence might not be clear to you..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Destroypuppy View Post
    Yeah, let's stick to B for a while.
    I think i'm LII for now, and my first language is french, so yeah, sometimes my sentence might not be clear to you..
    No no, your communication is fine (i'm non native too so..). It's something behind it that seems to conflict with me.

    LII now eh?

    have you retorted to using feedback from others IRL to get to your type? switching from ILE to ESE to LII seems to imply that you're not sure on any of the dimensions possible. Perhaps asking some friends to evaluate you on the dimensions (ask open ended non-loaded questions) might help .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Destroypuppy View Post
    Yeah, let's stick to B for a while.
    I think i'm LII for now, and my first language is french, so yeah, sometimes my sentence might not be clear to you..

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    The Reinin Book isn´t taking the Enneagram into account. Which is in fact the first defense line and not your leading function.

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    I think Reinin should be studied slowly, while integrating what he says with what other Socionics authors have said. The interpretation of Reinin should NOT overturn all of Socionics from other sources. He should add a layer of understanding. If not, he is proposing a different theory.

    I do not get ESE vibes form DP. The ESEs I know have an Role Function towards making sure everything is beneficial, they are afraid of disorganization. William is pretty ESE like. He could be something else, but ESE seems ok for him. He could also be an LSE - both fit him. My impression of DP is still ILE, even with Reinin taken into account.
     
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    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Victor-Gulenko I think this article about quadra values is helpful. Here is what it says about Alpha:

    -Fe = minimization or avoidance of negative emotions, prevention of quarrels, scandals, and other situations causing emotional instability, which is valued as more important than creation of positive emotional effect.

    -Ti = global structural logic. Systematic analysis is the instrument that they use in understanding the world. They are primarily interested in the universal laws that govern its workings. To that end, all traditions, conventions and restrictions are discarded. Everything is subjected to analysis, redefinition, analogies. Their main goal that they are pursuing is the creation of a comprehensive, breathtaking, singular picture of the world. The idea of unity, reasonableness and the fairness in all things permeates their vision completely.

    +Si = positive feelings of comfort. They cannot effectively realize their potential if their lifestyle is full of hardships. Style of activity is characterized by relaxation, freedom, by conveniences. Relations with the external environment, where their activities unfold, must be friendly and pleasant. Their groups are always comfortable, relaxed as if at home, and never rough or eccentric.

    +Ne = promising ideas. In this quadra, which can be attributed the element of air, there are frequent talks about the future, the unexplored and unknown possibilities. They may seem to be incorrigible dreamers. And this is so: they look out further than anyone, beyond the horizon, they put forward "crazy" theories and discuss them with pleasure. Some of these theories, however, are destined to have long lives, so long that they will outlast their creators.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    Pic.
    And this is exactly what I've been talking about many times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reficulris View Post
    No no, your communication is fine (i'm non native too so..). It's something behind it that seems to conflict with me.

    LII now eh?

    have you retorted to using feedback from others IRL to get to your type? switching from ILE to ESE to LII seems to imply that you're not sure on any of the dimensions possible. Perhaps asking some friends to evaluate you on the dimensions (ask open ended non-loaded questions) might help .
    I saw him IRL and I saw a lot of Ne and Ti... Here's what I observed :
    -he didn't value Fi... even seemed disgusted by it and had an "unipolar comprehension" of it.
    -he didn't seem to understand Fe too, so I would be surprised if he was ESE.
    -I'm pretty sure that I'm ESI and he tried to convince that I'm SEI with examples of how this type "functions"...
    -He listened to me pretty badly, I didn't have the time to develop an idea or even, answer to one of his questions, because he was already somewhere else with a new idea to convince me of my type.
    -And since I met him, he's very inconsistent with his evaluation of types, for himself and other people, and he tries to convince others with his evaluations.

    But he's very nice as a person despite being hard to follow from day to day with the inconsistency of his ideas.
    Last edited by serenity; 10-01-2013 at 10:02 PM. Reason: adding precisions

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    cube.jpg

    Yahoo! Found the cube! Now I just need to translate it, anyone can help?

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    I translated all the dichotomies, now I'm not sure how to go for the corners..
    cube.v.1.0.jpg
    Last edited by Destroypuppy; 10-02-2013 at 02:24 AM.

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    How come beta values have the shortest description?

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    Apparently we're volatile

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    a pyramish
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Intuition is all about Integrity (Ne) and hysteria (Ni), hysteria being the critic of others integrity.
    I always had a hard time explaining Ne and Ni to people, but with this in mind, it's so much easier.
    Try to look at it this way, when I was researching on wikipedia for a description of Integrity, there was a chapter on Jung's point of view on the matter, then I went to see hysteria, and Jung's point of view was also there.

    Ne and Ni isn't about potential and time and stuff, it's the reason behind the action, the action being Se. The opposite of the action is the reason why you act. Makes sense to me.
    Comments? Questions?

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    For exemple, alphas and deltas want to do want they want to do, betas and gammas want the world to do what they believe they should do.

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    @Destroypuppy : I went to Wikipedia and saw nothing about Jung, unless I missed it. Were these on separate articles from integrity & hysteria ???
     
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    I can't either, I was on my phone, the mobile version of wikipedia.
    I'll look for it at work tonight.

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