EIIs-INFjs as enemies of human freedom

[Saberstorm]

This is a thread about destructive EIIs.

The evil beast, known as the Humanitarian, can induce tremendous cultural stagnation by their blatant need for algorithmic procedures (their need to be told what to do) their pencil neck wimpy save the world through awareness and activism crap.

I am sick of you. I almost want to be a beta now.


I'll start off by blaming JOHN DEWEY, for the American School System. He is the Scourge of all Betas, and the Shadowy mocker of all ALPHA. His vile schools have a nervous role function fear of genuine Ti, they think ambition and winning (Se) is scary, they dismiss real Fe, and they make Ni an exercise in relativism of viewpoints.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dewey

In a word, he is an enemy of all human freedom. The schools kill all thought. The schools destroy and do not build up civilization. The schools are founded for "the children" - but not the growth of knowledge. The schools socialize the children to obey their ESTj masters. There is no value in the schools. They should be shut down. Eliminated. Uprooted.


EIIs can and will make you suck the great cock of the ESTj and when they have power they will do it on a grand scale.

[Beautiful sky]

you don't hate me I know it

no one can get it right all the time...food for knowledge.

[OldPathWhiteClouds]

I think schools after him were a lot better than they before him. But what would you propose be done to restore "freedom" (as you say) in the classroom?

[Saberstorm]

Schools lost the true vocational orientation of the Germans. We lost the potential to build a truly Germanic focus on skilled dissection of industrial processes to create precision and creativity together. His focus was on a primitive Te (procedural) orientation towards industrial art.

He saw school as a humanitarian venture, which it is at some level. But he was preparing students to work inside of organizations while living inside of a civil society. This is a nightmare.

The Alpha LII German educators focused on preparing students to work inside of a professional ethos (role Fi) manifest as professional society such as the profession of medicine or engineering (Alpha LII suggestive Fe) while focusing on the strategies (lead Alpha Ti) to bring forth positive potentials (creative Ne) in a loosely controlled on going social intercourse - (involution or "result" Reinin trait of the LII.)

We thus have a Process (stability seeking) focus on schools such as the get a job mindset of vocational programs. We do not have a result focus (we must create innovation) firmly set into a feeling of brotherhood or fellowship (more weak Fe.)

Process versus result. Result is freedom and branching of progress into new directions, Process is stability seeking, and set to expand in scale. We focus on the BIG corporate world for our hopes of well paid employment. We dream of working for the big (process orientated company.) We do not dream of making a new company - the schools shun enterprising students.

It is process and result. Read the quarta progression articles.

@OldPathWhiteClouds

[InvisibleJim]

what?

[Saberstorm]

I repent!!!

Let me have the honor and opportunity to experience such a wonderfully controlling industrial age companion!

[Beautiful sky]

Schools lost the true vocational orientation of the Germans. We lost the potential to build a truly Germanic focus on skilled dissection of industrial processes to create precision and creativity together. His focus was on a primitive Te (procedural) orientation towards industrial art.

He saw school as a humanitarian venture, which it is at some level. But he was preparing students to work inside of organizations while living inside of a civil society. This is a nightmare.

The Alpha LII German educators focused on preparing students to work inside of a professional ethos (role Fi) manifest as professional society such as the profession of medicine or engineering (Alpha LII suggestive Fe) while focusing on the strategies (lead Alpha Ti) to bring forth positive potentials (creative Ne) in a loosely controlled on going social intercourse - (involution or "result" Reinin trait of the LII.)

We thus have a Process (stability seeking) focus on schools such as the get a job mindset of vocational programs. We do not have a result focus (we must create innovation) firmly set into a feeling of brotherhood or fellowship (more weak Fe.)

Process versus result. Result is freedom and branching of progress into new directions, Process is stability seeking, and set to expand in scale. We focus on the BIG corporate world for our hopes of well paid employment. We dream of working for the big (process orientated company.) We do not dream of making a new company - the schools shun enterprising students.

It is process and result. Read the quarta progression articles.

@OldPathWhiteClouds

I'm pretty certain that Te isn't equal to "primitive" but rather what works the best. I have Ne in my ego block and I'm a positivist so I believe in technological advancement for the betterment of working conditions and higher quality of life. I think there's a lot that's being confused here...especially that there's a mixup of result and process as it relates to "enterprising". I'm an enterprising person...I'm Delta...I know other enterprising Delta too who start companies.

[Saberstorm]

Your confusing things. I am slyly blasting John Dewey, not EIIs - this is that subtle humor thing...

And I am talking about weak Te seeking of Dewey, not strong Te.

And process is orientated towards process - it starts with specific information and ends in a generality, such as this is the "specific" Apple iPod design and ends in "project management," a generality. Result is orientated to the result, it begins with a generality (managment bla bla bla) and ends in the specific. The specific product ... the iPod. A specific concept.

Process is blind but orderly, Result is loose and random. There are process businessmen, of course. But I am talking about Dewey, who lacked knowledge of his own dispositions and blindly created order with a focus on making everyone seek procedures.

Dewey's schools do not teach strong Te. They teach Te seeking. They are highly destructive. They make everybody followers not leaders. If you have Te as your ignoring function, you will be repelled by the Te seeking. You will disregard a Dewey designed school as meaningless.

Strong Te is not a problem. Generally the case, anybodies professional competency should be fine with any type. Strong Te is not the usual focus of school. I spent 8 years in the US Marines. They generally focus on strong Te. It bears a limited resemblance to school. All logical types can stomach the professional work of other logical types. The ego connects to the id (functions 1&2 connect to 7&8) allowing for communication and respect.

Dewey limits the logic in favor of ethics. His ethics are flawed - he wants people to work in institutional settings with limited autonomy. That is his vision of society. He is setting people up for work ... work sucks ... he was not setting them up for mastery of their environment.

That requires an extroverted judging function (either Fe or Te) as that is a team effort, and leadership is needed. His enemy is the SLE - a person who conquers challenges. DJArendee is the enemy of the educator. He is not served by school.

[Saberstorm]

Process types have the advantage of being orientated towards creating internal conditions for expansion in scale. Process business is obviously about scale, distance, and also stability in growth. Walmart is process.

Result types have the advantage of being oriented towards generating conceptual models that thrive in a comparative context. They transcend the abstraction of data into categories to make entirely new models. They can conceive of alternative systems of revenue generation (such as Google's free everything model of using ads to power their core services) and are often better at promotion. Google began operations with the ideal that all their workers do their work spontaneously without need for oversight. They later adopted internal processes of supervision.

Dewey is process, but was a communist. He wanted the unions and government, through process, to create large scale stable platforms for the people work in. He designed the schools with that future of socialism in mind. A process business guy would only activate me. I would not view him as criminal, like I do Dewey.

[Beautiful sky]

Process types have the advantage of being orientated towards creating internal conditions for expansion in scale. Process business is obviously about scale, distance, and also stability in growth. Walmart is process.

Result types have the advantage of being oriented towards generating conceptual models that thrive in a comparative context. They transcend the abstraction of data into categories to make entirely new models. They can conceive of alternative systems of revenue generation (such as Google's free everything model of using ads to power their core services) and are often better at promotion. Google began operations with the ideal that all their workers do their work spontaneously without need for oversight. They later adopted internal processes of supervision.

Dewey is process, but was a communist. He wanted the unions and government, through process, to create large scale stable platforms for the people work in. He designed the schools with that future of socialism in mind. A process business guy would only activate me. I would not view him as criminal, like I do Dewey.

No Result types are terrible at promoting products; Process types are better at that. Hence, why SEE are such driven and mobilized type.

[Saberstorm]

SLEs are promoters ... none the less, do not get stuck on the quantitative aspect of this. SEEs are political ...

[Absurd]

Agree, Saberstorm.

Down with SLE and SEE, the tyrants, killing human freedom.

[mikemex]

Well @Saberstorm, I don't even know who you are talking about, but if you want a general perspective, here it is.

It is plain impossible at this point in history for individual freedom to flourish, period. And why is that? Because if society allowed everyone to do as they please, most people would end up doing things for themselves and nobody would take care of the collective needs.

It seems like a minor issue but I must remind you that large infrastructure such as power plants, roads, airports, factories and such are impossible to do by single individuals. It is necessary to organize large amounts of people and strip them from their individual freedom to do as they please in order to reach goals on such large scale. It's not some sort of conspiracy but a dynamic that emerges from the fact that our society is driven by an economy of scale.

And contrary to your assumptions, both Alphas and Deltas are individual oriented (actually, Alphas are engaging and Deltas are isolationists; Deltas are the group which is the less interested in telling others what to do or how to behave). It's Betas and Gammas the ones who create the power structures, organization schemes, hierachies, etc. and force the rest in one way or another to fit them. But like I said, it doesn't respond to some cartoonish sense of "evil".

[Beautiful sky]

SLEs are promoters ... none the less, do not get stuck on the quantitative aspect of this. SEEs are political ...

maybe it doesn't have anything to do with process/result (???)