What strongly annoys IEEs-ENFps?

[Steve]

I and many others on this forum have been trying to isolate the differences between ENTps and ENFps, since both share the dominant Ne but differ in the creative function. Maybe by figuring out what really annoys each of us we can isolate some noticable differences and how the creative funtion brings out those differences.

So what really annoys an ENFp?

Here's my guess, and this could be way off: Seeing other people manipulated or regarded as objects by people who disregard the emotional impact certain actions would have on a person. Or perhaps seeing a belittling or mocking of a human relationship?

Again these are just my guesses.

What really does annoy an ENFp?

[Creepy-pokeball]

Apathy. Double standards. b0redom.

[Angel von Himmel]

ENFps are annoyed by being told they are illogical by know-it-alls and having someone around that spouts out loads of logical nonsense who tries to correct them when they make mistakes.

ENTps are annoyed by being told that they are immoral and rude inconsiderate assholes when they think they are just being friendly to other people, and really are not.

[Slacker]

Things that annoy me:

Yes, McNew, being called an illogical know-it-all would probably do it. Especially if there seemed to be some truth in it.

Also, I hate rules that seem to be around for no good reason. Especially when I was working, our corporate office would make rules that maybe had a reason for existing in the corporate office but were completely unnecessary in our office. They would force us to comply anyway. I really really hated that.

[Joy]

that makes a lot of sense

[Angel von Himmel]

Yeah, I agree with Nicky on the rules thing ... rules that do not have a point are totally worthless to follow in my opinion.

[science as magic]

Apathy. Double standards. b0redom.

ironic

jk

mostly...

[consentingadult]

ENFps are annoyed by being told they are illogical by know-it-alls and having someone around that spouts out loads of logical nonsense who tries to correct them when they make mistakes.

Ever since I've accepted that I'm ENFp (and no longer neurotically try to simulate T-behaviour), I love to be called illogical!!

[Angel von Himmel]

Yeah, but when you think that you have been made to feel stupid all of your life, you are not going to like it very much.

[Slacker]

It all depends on context. Like if someone is joking with you and gently teases you for being illogical, it can be funny. But if you're arguing with someone and that person says something like, "There's no point even continuing this since you don't have a logical though in your head" or "I'm tired of listening to you spew out illogical garbage" or points out where you were acting like a know-it-all but were illogical and obviously wrong, it would sting.

[Steve]

Ever since I've accepted that I'm ENFp (and no longer neurotically try to simulate T-behaviour), I love to be called illogical!!

LOL - What finally caused you to accept ENFp as your type? What would you consider to be T-behaviour? I for a while was trying to figure out being either ENTp or ENFp as well.

And even though I'm a T I've enjoyed having fun with people by saying stuff that I know will be totally incoherent, just to see what the reaction would be.

[consentingadult]

LOL - What finally caused you to accept ENFp as your type? What would you consider to be T-behaviour? I for a while was trying to figure out being either ENTp or ENFp as well.

Total mental breakdown, with a depression that made me realize I was acting way too consciously. In some tests (the ones without obvious questions that can't be answered according to super-ego bias, in the Freudian sense) a always came out as a person with high anima.

T-behavior: logical, objective, imperonal reasoning. I've always tried this myself, but never was really good at it. I don't like solving complex mathematical problems either. And for years, long before I got into MBTI and Socionics, I was already advocating NF-style values, such as good communication. I've often been surrounded by NT-type people, that I always had to correct on their Mr. Spock type reasoning. My favorite business-quote to my employees: "only 20% of our profit is in technology, 80% is in good communication with the clients". Very hard to make that clear to NT types :wink:

[XoX]

My favorite business-quote to my employees: "only 20% of our profit is in technology, 80% is in good communication with the clients". Very hard to make that clear to NT types :wink:

Hmm...smells like typism How was it very hard? They refuse to accept this? I would be interested in knowing how NT-types here see this.

[Steve]

T-behavior: logical, objective, imperonal reasoning. I've always tried this myself, but never was really good at it. I don't like solving complex mathematical problems either. And for years, long before I got into MBTI and Socionics, I was already advocating NF-style values, such as good communication. I've often been surrounded by NT-type people, that I always had to correct on their Mr. Spock type reasoning. My favorite business-quote to my employees: "only 20% of our profit is in technology, 80% is in good communication with the clients". Very hard to make that clear to NT types :wink:

Interesting. I'm curious if those were NTjs or NTps you were surrounded by. I can definitely see NTj's being more bound to logic even if the situation calls for something different, especially with Te. You could be right for NT types in general and maybe I'm an exception, but I agree completely with pushing proper communication. Even from an ENTp point of view, the Ne function sees the potential of the situation with everyone communicating well, and sees that effective communication and respect will ultimately help the structure (Ti) of the organization as a whole function more smoothly. Perhaps from an Fi point of view, effective communication will make people feel more included and respected and ultimately happier.

To me, one of my greatest satisfactions is seing both points of view (Ti and Fi) working in unison under Ne. Seeing the whole entity function well and realizing the potential of the situation, and also seeing people at their happiest and creating a pleasant environment. In fact if I sense people aren't enjoying themselves in a certain situation, I kinda lose my motivation and it doesn't seem as fun. What makes it hard to decide whether I'm using Ti or Fi is whether I'm seeing people as parts of a whole that have potential that should be brought out, or if I'm seeing them as feeling individuals who give me a warm feeling when I see them happy and functioning at their best.

Maybe this will clarify the Fi Ti difference: When you've emphasized effective communication, what were your motivations? Were they more realted to realizing people's potential as parts of a structure, or were they more related to respecting each person's character and creating a positive environment?

[consentingadult]

My favorite business-quote to my employees: "only 20% of our profit is in technology, 80% is in good communication with the clients". Very hard to make that clear to NT types :wink:

Hmm...smells like typism How was it very hard? They refuse to accept this? I would be interested in knowing how NT-types here see this.

They do seem to understand it, then go on and behave like they never heard you. I've been in the IT industry, perhaps that has more to do with it. The basic attitude of a lot of NT's in IT is an inclination to think other people are incompetent idiots whenever they don't agree with them, and even if they don't say that, it might still show on their face. Also, they (NT's in IT) have a tendency to deliver the technologically best solution, even when the customer in reality want the the solution that is best for business. Typically, IMHO, T-types (again: in IT) think they have done well when they have provided the customer with the technologically best solution, hence they should be appreciated for that. And most customers don't want the technologically best solution: they want to be heard, they want to feel that they are taken seriously in a timely fashion (meaning you don't have to really do that, only make them feel that way), often they want to be involved in the (decicion-making) process and kept up-to-date on progress and issues. A typical NT in IT (and perhaps also ST) will think such customers are pathetic. I can give loads of examples where this has gone wrong, leaving a stumped NT behind wondering "what the f**k did I do wrong??" Well, they typically have focussed on their competence to the extent that they forgot the human element of business!

Interesting. I'm curious if those were NTjs or NTps you were surrounded by. I can definitely see NTj's being more bound to logic even if the situation calls for something different, especially with Te.

Both: I experienced NTjs as more rigid, but then, I experience all J types as rigid. But "typically", NTjs will exhibit the "these incompetent fools!" syndrome more than NTps, which can be even more logical (meaning: overlooking aspects) than NTjs, but, IMHO, are more open to good arguments and admit "Oh, I haven't thought of that!"

You could be right for NT types in general and maybe I'm an exception, but I agree completely with pushing proper communication.

I think ENTps are somewhat of an exception in this respect, as are ENFps amongst NF types. I know quite a few people who are or claim to be ENTp, and work in communication, and are darn good at their jobs. Still, even they often exhibit the "those incompetent idiots!" syndrome! :wink:

In fact if I sense people aren't enjoying themselves in a certain situation, I kinda lose my motivation and it doesn't seem as fun. What makes it hard to decide whether I'm using Ti or Fi is whether I'm seeing people as parts of a whole that have potential that should be brought out, or if I'm seeing them as feeling individuals who give me a warm feeling when I see them happy and functioning at their best.

I wonder if what you are describing, has anaything to do with Ti or Fi. I can imagine myself loosing interest because my Ne is being frustrated, other people not going along with it. I don't really believe I want to bring out the best in people because it gives me warm feelings, but simply because potential needs to be realized when it's there; why do people climb mountains? Because there are mountains to climb!

Maybe this will clarify the Fi Ti difference: When you've emphasized effective communication, what were your motivations? Were they more realted to realizing people's potential as parts of a structure, or were they more related to respecting each person's character and creating a positive environment?

I don;t think I emphasize effective communication, but respectful communication. The reasons I do that, is kind of twisted: it is my strength to connect to people, to make them feel good about being part of the process making them feel like they are taken seriously. IMHO, you can deliver a good product and totally screw up a project because you haven't communicated, but if you do communicate well (people-oriented and timely), your sins will be forgiven. My ultimate goal is to get appreciation in return, which makes me feel good about myself. Perhaps that's Fi?

The reality is, that this works well for ME, and I project this attitude on other people, which basically is a wrong thing to do. It works escpecially well in IT, since most IT personnel seem to forget about the human aspects of their business, which makes me stand out. However, I must admit this works with most people, especially if they are not in IT themselves. Pleasing NT's is probably one of the hardest thing to do :wink:

I can say, however, that I'm more motivated to bring out the best in individuals; to hell with the structure! I don't know if that explains the difference between Fi en Ti.

[XoX]

My favorite business-quote to my employees: "only 20% of our profit is in technology, 80% is in good communication with the clients". Very hard to make that clear to NT types :wink:

Hmm...smells like typism How was it very hard? They refuse to accept this? I would be interested in knowing how NT-types here see this.

They do seem to understand it, then go on and behave like they never heard you. I've been in the IT industry, perhaps that has more to do with it. The basic attitude of a lot of NT's in IT is an inclination to think other people are incompetent idiots whenever they don't agree with them, and even if they don't say that, it might still show on their face. Also, they (NT's in IT) have a tendency to deliver the technologically best solution, even when the customer in reality want the the solution that is best for business. Typically, IMHO, T-types (again: in IT) think they have done well when they have provided the customer with the technologically best solution, hence they should be appreciated for that. And most customers don't want the technologically best solution: they want to be heard, they want to feel that they are taken seriously in a timely fashion (meaning you don't have to really do that, only make them feel that way), often they want to be involved in the (decicion-making) process and kept up-to-date on progress and issues. A typical NT in IT (and perhaps also ST) will think such customers are pathetic. I can give loads of examples where this has gone wrong, leaving a stumped NT behind wondering "what the f**k did I do wrong??" Well, they typically have focussed on their competence to the extent that they forgot the human element of business!

Ok now I understand what you mean. I have also worked in IT. Just that I'm not sure how well you can type people based on this behavior you describe. There are MANY people in IT who behave like this. Are they all NTs? Perhaps. Are all NTs like this? Not likely.

My point being these same things bother me probably as much as they bother you. It is one of the reasons I have thought of changing the industry. However there is a chance I'm actually NT myself and I'm not at all sure you can claim all NTs are like you describe. I might not be the best person to handle customer relations because it doesn't come naturally to me but I certainly get your point and seriously try to avoid and disrespect the kind of behavior you describe.

So perhaps these "NTs" you talk about are people who have completely neglected the human relations part of their lives and somehow try to compensate this by overfocusing on technological competence (to make themselves feel better or something). I'm not at all sure these observations can be generalized in a way you do and claim "all NTs are socially impaired" etc. That sounds like typism. NT workers are individuals as much as customers are. That said knowing there are people like you in IT-industry makes me want to get back there Currently I'm a student but very soon I have to make decisions on what I will do with the rest of my life.

[consentingadult]

That sounds like typism

I agree it sounds like typism. But please do heed all kinds of "buts" in my texts, such as "typically", "NT's in IT" and I have even generalized this to the T-level, because often on a help desk, you will also find a lot of ST guys, e.g. ISTP's. Perhaps I should have thought about it longer before putting it down on paper, but basically what I'm saying:'it's about nerdy behaviour! Of course, not al NTs or STs are like that, but you will be able to find such stereotype NTs in IT environments.

Of course, NTs are not socially impaired. If they look like that, it's simply because their focus, what they think is important, is not primary directed at other human beings. I also wouldn't suggest to any NT to become more people focussed; if they have it in them, they will discover it themselves sooner or later.

I'm not really a Socionics or MBTI expert myself, but the impression I get is that your taking all that I wrote way too literal, instead of grabbing the big picture I'm painting here. It is easy for me to write a story with finer nuances, but then, do you have a couple of hours to read it. This makes me question whether you are NT indeed, are you sure you're not ST, perhaps even ISTP? Or perhaps you are just young and inexperienced (no offense intended).

That said knowing there are people like you in IT-industry makes me want to get back there

Sorry, I've left the IT industry and started a midlife crisis :wink: The reason why I held out for about 12 years in IT, was that I never really worked for IT companies. I've always been in IT from a business angle. Last year, the department I worked for was tranferred from a creative minded subsidiary to an IT-minded subsidiary, complete with an ISTj boss! All of a sudden I was given control of the helpdesk/support department, and I hated it, I don't have it in me to manage nerds, unless I start to function completely super-ego level. It's simply no fun trying to bring out the best in people who do their taxes in hexadecimal or an ISTj boss who has a Masters in Economy and wants detailed reports full of numbers every week. Management by numbers, that's operational management and ENFps are not good at that sort of thing. This I why I quit (and many of my former co-workers as well)... :wink:

[FDG]

Whoever has a master in Economics should immediatly recognize how the basic law of supply and demand dictates that there is no such a thing as a "technically optimal" solution which does not coincide with what the customer wants.

[consentingadult]

Whoever has a master in Economics should immediatly recognize how the basic law of supply and demand dictates that there is no such a thing as a "technically optimal" solution which does not coincide with what the customer wants.

Alas, that's all theory, how do you make people translate that into their behavior? The problem was: he never dealt with the customers, in fact, he let me and other managers deal with that, and then tell us afterwards how we did it all wrong! To me! The guy who is called in when the relationship with the customer is stuck and gets the train rolling again! Can you imagine?

To get back to the original question at this thread: "What really annoys an ENFp?" Well, the answer is: an ISTj boss who thinks he himself is a role model for the rest of the world! :wink:

[XoX]

I'm not really a Socionics or MBTI expert myself, but the impression I get is that your taking all that I wrote way too literal, instead of grabbing the big picture I'm painting here. It is easy for me to write a story with finer nuances, but then, do you have a couple of hours to read it. This makes me question whether you are NT indeed, are you sure you're not ST, perhaps even ISTP? Or perhaps you are just young and inexperienced (no offense intended).

Well I initially thought I was ISTp but after coming here again and again I realize I seem to lack (introverted sensing) and prefer (introverted intuition). Thus it is close to impossible that could be my leading function (so called "program" function). Currently I'm gearing towards INTp which is a looklike to ISTp. But my mind is never completely settled

Anyways you sounded a bit arrogant and perhaps a bit bitter (calling people nerds as if they are a lower form of life or something). Typism and negative stereotyping in general has been lately a hot topic here so I thought maybe this would be a good chance to discuss about it and learn to know you better in the process. And it even more or less fits the theme of this thread! I guess ENFps dislike people paying too much attention to the details of what they say. And I do agree with the overall message of your post as I said before.

Oh and in many ways I'm young and inexperienced so no offence there

Sorry, I've left the IT industry and started a midlife crisis :wink:

That's sad Well perhaps the crisis leads to a some kind of rebirth and you find the industry interesting again

[consentingadult]

Anyways you sounded a bit arrogant and perhaps a bit bitter (calling people nerds as if they are a lower form of life or something).

Arrogant, okay, I can see that, but bitter, quite the contrary, but I guess self-mockery doesn't turn out well on paper :wink:

Sorry, I've left the IT industry and started a midlife crisis :wink:

That's sad Well perhaps the crisis leads to a some kind of rebirth and you find the industry interesting again

Whahaha, you're taking my writings way too seriously, don't you see the smilies? My gut feeling still says ISTP!

[XoX]

Whahaha, you're taking my writings way too seriously, don't you see the smilies? My gut feeling still says ISTP!

Well I mostly see this one ":wink:" which many ENFps like to use. If used too much it gives arrogant impression in my mind

Hmm..a while ago there was a thread which talked about what kind of arrogancy is related to each type. It was extremely hard to figure out what is the kind of arrogancy that ENFps are most guilty of. Finally someone (I believe it was Darklord) came up with this definition: ENFps are the "I'm less arrogant than you"-arrogant type.

And I appreciate your input to my typing process. And you are not the only one who still thinks I'm ISTp (even though you are a minority). But this has been a months long process and "gut feeling" is not really an argument Perhaps my role has fooled you here! It has fooled other ENFps too before you. Until proven otherwise >.

And I'm not always this serious I'm just in a serious mood. Take for example Rocky. He is ALWAYS serious. Ok me and Rockson could be the same type in the end but in those moments where our arguments have clashed there seems to be something different in our approaches. As if both look same question from a somewhat different angle. It becomes more obvious in competitive moments. In the end we seem to rely on different functions when "survival" is in question. But this is pretty speculative

[consentingadult]

ENFps are the "I'm less arrogant than you"-arrogant type.

WE ARE NOT ARROGANT! This is only how others perceive us and ENTPs, thus it says more about the others than about us

But this has been a months long process and "gut feeling" is not really an argument

It is for an NF type, especially an older one like I am! Ergo: this excludes you as an INFp, so you can strike that one through.

Take for example Rocky. He is ALWAYS serious

My point exactly: the feeling you invoke in me, is the same as the feeling invoked by Rocky

But considering you are still young, it might very well be that the S/N thingy in you is not all that differentiated yet (no offence intended) and you might very well be INxp. If ever you visit the Netherlands, drop me a line, and I'll show you around in Amsterdam , the Red Light District and stuff. We'll get a beer and if your into it, smoke some pot as well. We'll find out if whether you're ISTP, INTP or whatever...

[anndelise]

http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...arrogant#54300

Schrödinger's Cat:
Perhaps we're the "I'm more humble than you" type.
Anndelise, what are we arrogant about? Can you think of anything? I can't. Lack of insight, probably.

Darklord:
ENFps are the "I'm less arrogant than you" arrogant type.
Just look at your own post, Cat :wink: .

Anndelise:
When I read the "I'm less arrogant than you are" statement, I laughed out loud. Family thought I suddenly went nuts. This statement definitely strikes a chord not only in my observations of my own behavior, but in other ENFPs I've hung out with. And I can definitely see how other types might take offense when an ENFP suggests that the other is maybe being too arrogant.
Yes, I believe this is the one.
(walks away laughing at herself)

At this point in the conversation between XoX and consentingadult….I'm wondering just who IS taking things too seriously.

[consentingadult]

At this point in the conversation between XoX and consentingadult….I'm wondering just who IS taking things too seriously.

Oh, but I am dead serious! There is no such thing as a serious-silly dichotomy!

[Steve]

Interesting. I'm curious if those were NTjs or NTps you were surrounded by. I can definitely see NTj's being more bound to logic even if the situation calls for something different, especially with Te.

Both: I experienced NTjs as more rigid, but then, I experience all J types as rigid. But "typically", NTjs will exhibit the "these incompetent fools!" syndrome more than NTps, which can be even more logical (meaning: overlooking aspects) than NTjs, but, IMHO, are more open to good arguments and admit "Oh, I haven't thought of that!"

Yeah I think I've found that too. And I would think that in the IT field, where using any of the feeling functions probably won't do anything as far as actual computers are concerned, NT's probably will end up communicating with people the same way they communicate with their computers, demanding total comprehension, and since they know that the computer will understand whatever inputs they enter into it, they almost unconsicously apply the same mentality to the human interactions in their work, as limited as those interactions may be.

In fact if I sense people aren't enjoying themselves in a certain situation, I kinda lose my motivation and it doesn't seem as fun. What makes it hard to decide whether I'm using Ti or Fi is whether I'm seeing people as parts of a whole that have potential that should be brought out, or if I'm seeing them as feeling individuals who give me a warm feeling when I see them happy and functioning at their best.

I wonder if what you are describing, has anaything to do with Ti or Fi. I can imagine myself loosing interest because my Ne is being frustrated, other people not going along with it. I don't really believe I want to bring out the best in people because it gives me warm feelings, but simply because potential needs to be realized when it's there; why do people climb mountains? Because there are mountains to climb!

Very good analogy and good point. I think you're right. It has more to do with Ne than either of the creative functions; seeing possibilities and wanting to explore them.

That sounds like typism

I'm not really a Socionics or MBTI expert myself, but the impression I get is that your taking all that I wrote way too literal, instead of grabbing the big picture I'm painting here.

You're starting to sound like me . I wrote a similar thing that was vigorously attacked by a certain ISTp in another of my threads, as you probably read .

ENFps are the "I'm less arrogant than you"-arrogant type.

WE ARE NOT ARROGANT! This is only how others perceive us and ENTPs, thus it says more about the others than about us

THANK YOU!!! - And do you know why we're probably percieved as arrogant? Because we sometimes take minor details (things ISTjs and ISTps seem to really emphasize) for granted so we can establish a rough framework of a concept, so we can get to the bigger picture behind it. Some people think that we should be paying more attention to minor details (which to me is like walking with glue on the bottom of your shoes). The only way we'll pay attention to details is if they're within a context and will enrich the overall idea and not detract from it or slow us down.

[consentingadult]

THANK YOU!!! - And do you know why we're probably percieved as arrogant? Because we sometimes take minor details (things ISTjs and ISTps seem to really emphasize) for granted so we can establish a rough framework of a concept, so we can get to the bigger picture behind it. Some people think that we should be paying more attention to minor details (which to me is like walking with glue on the bottom of your shoes). The only way we'll pay attention to details is if they're within a context and will enrich the overall idea and not detract from it or slow us down.

You're welcome. Like I said, perhaps you and I should get together for beers ;-)

The finer details are implied between the lines, but the error is completely ours, not theirs: we failed to realize that some people just don't read between the lines and we didn't adapt our behaviour accordingly. An example:

Last year, when I took control of the help desk dept. in my new job, I had an employee which didn't fit quite in according to my boss and his former manager. The employee, ISTP, was very frustrated, because other people tried to make him do things he didn't grasp, and he interpreted this as him not performing well in his job. I don't know how many times other people and I told him: "The thing you're doing, you are doing very well, but it's not what we're asking you to do!" Still, he kept insisting that the employees in our company he helped out were satisfied with his performance. My boss wanted to get rid of him, saying "He's probably much happier selling memory modules at the local computer store than being a first-line helpdesk employee".

I decided to give the employee a try and asked him to do a little project and see how he would handle. In a face to face meeting I explained the overal idea and the general picture of what I expected from him. He took no notes. Then I asked him when he thought he could deliver the first draft of his plan. A week later, according to the promise he made, he delivered. That is, about 10% of what I asked him to do: a badly written e-mail message to the users in our company. When I said that this wasn't what I asked, he said he felt it was not neccesary to do those other things and started to argue with me. We did not come to an understaning that day.

I realized my error: I should have given him detailed and explicit instructions. I put together an e-mail message outlining all there should be in his project plan, and instructions on what can be considered a good, informative e-mail message. A week later he delivered a project plan that was so good, that it made my mouth fall open. And not only mine, but also those of my boss and another manager. It was cool!

One problem remained: I left and it is not that company's policy to take people by the hand and tell them in detail how to accomplish their tasks all the time. You're supposed to bring the attitude and skills along yourself, so his future still isn't going to be great with that company, especially since other managers will not apply MBTI/Socionics ideas, but still expect initiative, and will keep pressing that guy's red buttons instead of the green ones. Meanwhile, he has lost confidence in the company and is very skeptical about the management and his career possibilities. The misunderstanding works both ways...

I know it's not chic here, but I think it's okay to say that the method I applied here, I learned from "The Art of Speed Reading People" by the Tiegers. Despite its supposed errors, its the best thing available on the English speaking market.

[Creepy-pokeball]

At this point in the conversation between XoX and consentingadult….I'm wondering just who IS taking things too seriously.

Oh, but I am dead serious! There is no such thing as a serious-silly dichotomy!

There is now!

[consentingadult]

At this point in the conversation between XoX and consentingadult….I'm wondering just who IS taking things too seriously.

Oh, but I am dead serious! There is no such thing as a serious-silly dichotomy!

There is now!

As in "Let there be light?"

[anndelise]

At this point in the conversation between XoX and consentingadult….I'm wondering just who IS taking things too seriously.

Oh, but I am dead serious! There is no such thing as a serious-silly dichotomy!

There is now!

As in "Let there be light?"

*Ann sees the light, and calls it good*

[consentingadult]

At this point in the conversation between XoX and consentingadult….I'm wondering just who IS taking things too seriously.

Oh, but I am dead serious! There is no such thing as a serious-silly dichotomy!

There is now!

As in "Let there be light?"

*Ann sees the light, and calls it good*

The fear of ANN is already into me :wink:

[XoX]

I'm starting to like this Rocky mode Perhaps I'm like him then Let's go on for a little bit more...

Arrogant, okay, I can see that,

WE ARE NOT ARROGANT!

Whahaha, you're taking my writings way too seriously,

Oh, but I am dead serious!

It is for an NF type, especially an older one like I am! Ergo: this excludes you as an INFp, so you can strike that one through.
...later in the same post...
But considering you are still young, it might very well be that the S/N thingy in you is not all that differentiated yet (no offence intended) and you might very well be INxp

The finer details are implied between the lines, but the error is completely ours, not theirs

Exactly. If you contradict yourself in every post and sometimes even within one post the error is pretty much all yours. Oh and I didn't mean I don't trust _my_ "gut feelings". I do in many things. Just that people's "gut feelings" here have provided me with about 10 different types. Months ago I did a typing thread which ended up as ENFj if recall right. And most of those people knew me better than you do. So I hope you understand not immediately trusting what your gut feelings say after reading couple of my posts. Not saying they are wrong just taking into account the whole of situation they can't be trusted as an argument.

I think I'm really getting a dejavu here The futility of this exercise is getting pretty obvious so I see no point in going on with this.

Oh I forgot to steve6...

THANK YOU!!! - And do you know why we're probably percieved as arrogant? Because we sometimes take minor details (things ISTjs and ISTps seem to really emphasize) for granted so we can establish a rough framework of a concept, so we can get to the bigger picture behind it.

Oh yes now I can see what was meant with your typism and Ego-thing in that other thread. I haven't noticed this stuff before. That seems like a way to make your weak points disappear by calling them "minor details" or something and then cherish your strenghts and bark on other types weaknesses. Well of course no one can stop you from doing that but it is not what socionics is about. Every type has weaknesses and ignoring them as meaningless details will produce problems eventually.

And btw you really seem ENTp to me (I'm not just talking about the quoted part, heh). Just that back in the old days there were many people who thought to be ENTps but this is the first time I'm really getting an ENTp vibe! (edit: had to add...I might be wrong too since my gut feelings are not really an argument either )

[consentingadult]

Mmm.... seems like you're attributing us exactly the qualities ENFps and ENTps are known for. Correct me if I'm wrong, but am I right in my conclusion that you are passing a negative value judgement on us, even though these qualities are usually described as our virtues (and vices at the same time) on both Socionics and MBTI sites?

Indeed, it's no use. I'm happy that you finally "understand" where Steve6 and I are coming from now. I hope that someday you will discover where you yourself are coming from, and that it will make you more accepting of the fact that other people might be totally different while really meaning no harm. And that there's more to people than just Socionic types. Meanwhile, I'm going to get myself another cup of coffee

[XoX]

Ahaha. Stop it already I tried not to attribute to you anything that was not discussed in this thread. Except I made one reference to another thread (which steve6 referenced too briefly). But this reference was not related to you.

Coffee for me now

[consentingadult]

Ahaha. Stop it already I tried not to attribute to you anything that was not discussed in this thread. Except I made one reference to another thread (which steve6 referenced too briefly). But this reference was not related to you.

Coffee for me now

I still stand by what I have said :wink:

[anndelise]

Ahaha. Stop it already I tried not to attribute to you anything that was not discussed in this thread. Except I made one reference to another thread (which steve6 referenced too briefly). But this reference was not related to you.

Coffee for me now

I still stand by what I have said :wink:

Ok, THIS NeFi is getting annoid.

So, *I* will be the one to take the last word and you two can go get coffee or whatever flush with the knowledge that the OTHER did NOT get the last word on you.

[Slacker]

oooh XoX, XoX . . .

Don't you know better than to hit an ENFp with his/her contradictions!!!

Though it's a good example of how to annoy an ENFp

[Steve]

I have an idea. Why don't we make a thread about what each of our types does that may be considered offensive to others but really isn't. Also we could write what we don't understand and can't stand about certain types. And each person would write it for their own type, based on their own personal experiences and opinions. This way, everything would be out on the table, and people could more effectively understand others' points of view and not get frustrated in this forum. Infact - I'm off to do that...

[XoX]

oooh XoX, XoX . . .

Don't you know better than to hit an ENFp with his/her contradictions!!!

Though it's a good example of how to annoy an ENFp

Sorry But really...PoLR slapping is probably the best way to annoy anyone ENFp or not

[FDG]

I have an idea. Why don't we make a thread about what each of our types does that may be considered offensive to others but really isn't. Also we could write what we don't understand and can't stand about certain types. And each person would write it for their own type, based on their own personal experiences and opinions. This way, everything would be out on the table, and people could more effectively understand others' points of view and not get frustrated in this forum. Infact - I'm off to do that...

Lol this is stupid. You want understand feelings by a logical scheme. It doesn't work this way.