Who hates Enneagram Type 5s?

[Saberstorm]

Anybody good with enneagram around here? Which type hates the fuck out of e5s?

I suffocate around these doomy people. I so much want to engage the outside world and I am very optimistic. E5s in person are creepy downers to me, and if I do not separate myself from them, they snuff out all my joy and leave me almost clinically depressed.

[Beautiful sky]

Unpleasant sensations around an E5?

How do they snuff out your joy? what do they do.

[xerx]

I like them a lot.

[Saberstorm]

Is there an E type that naturally clashes with them?

[Beautiful sky]

Is there an E type that naturally clashes with them?

E7 maybe

[xerx]

Is there an E type that naturally clashes with them?

I'm such a positivist that I appreciate downers. It's hard for me to not like anybody; not during a bad fight, and not even while talking trash about them.

[woofwoofl]

[Saberstorm]

My brother is an E5 likely an LSE. I clash with him!

I bought some tea from Thailand. It was my birthday and I was talking about the Thai tea. I was thinking about how poor they are over there, but then I thought, at least they have healthy tea to drink. I then began to describe the tea plantation and how a friend of mine who is a recent immigrant from Nepal used to work on a tea plantation. I was describing it in an idyllic way. He interrupts me and says (in his usual goblin like body language) "and they lead miserable lives and then they die." Which depressed me so much I had to leave my party.

he constantly giggles about people "losing in the end." He is constantly preparing for the time when society tries to push him out. That is why he works in water treatment. If the nation collapses, they will still need water. He constantly calls himself a cockroach, which he calls the highest and best creature of Darwinism - because "the cockroach scurries away." It is sickening. He constantly compares himself to cockroaches. That is powerfully depressing to me. He constantly talks about how he wins because "he scurried away!" Sick. He should engage with hope the world.

[Beautiful sky]

My brother is an E5 likely an LSE. I clash with him!

I bought some tea from Thailand. It was my birthday and I was talking about the Thai tea. I was thinking about how poor they are over there, but then I thought, at least they have healthy tea to drink. I then began to describe the tea plantation and how a friend of mine who is a recent immigrant from Nepal used to work on a tea plantation. I was describing it in an idyllic way. He interrupts me and says (in his usual goblin like body language) "and they lead miserable lives and then they die." Which depressed me so much I had to leave my party.

he constantly giggles about people "losing in the end." He is constantly preparing for the time when society tries to push him out. That is why he works in water treatment. If the nation collapses, they will still need water. He constantly calls himself a cockroach, which he calls the highest and best creature of Darwinism - because "the cockroach scurries away." It is sickening. He constantly compares himself to cockroaches. That is powerfully depressing to me. He constantly talks about how he wins because "he scurried away!" Sick. He should engage with hope the world.

wow

[Beautiful sky]

Does positive encouragement help your brother see a more positive outlook. Something like "yeah, I know people are a nobody in the third world, but at least here, in the US, we're still treating people with some dignity and respect."

[DirectorAbbie]

Your brother's just a freak.

[Hays]

My brother is an E5 likely an LSE. I clash with him!

I bought some tea from Thailand. It was my birthday and I was talking about the Thai tea. I was thinking about how poor they are over there, but then I thought, at least they have healthy tea to drink. I then began to describe the tea plantation and how a friend of mine who is a recent immigrant from Nepal used to work on a tea plantation. I was describing it in an idyllic way. He interrupts me and says (in his usual goblin like body language) "and they lead miserable lives and then they die." Which depressed me so much I had to leave my party.

he constantly giggles about people "losing in the end." He is constantly preparing for the time when society tries to push him out. That is why he works in water treatment. If the nation collapses, they will still need water. He constantly calls himself a cockroach, which he calls the highest and best creature of Darwinism - because "the cockroach scurries away." It is sickening. He constantly compares himself to cockroaches. That is powerfully depressing to me. He constantly talks about how he wins because "he scurried away!" Sick. He should engage with hope the world.

This so made me lol.

[Waster]

My brother is an E5 likely an LSE. I clash with him!

I bought some tea from Thailand. It was my birthday and I was talking about the Thai tea. I was thinking about how poor they are over there, but then I thought, at least they have healthy tea to drink. I then began to describe the tea plantation and how a friend of mine who is a recent immigrant from Nepal used to work on a tea plantation. I was describing it in an idyllic way. He interrupts me and says (in his usual goblin like body language) "and they lead miserable lives and then they die." Which depressed me so much I had to leave my party.

he constantly giggles about people "losing in the end." He is constantly preparing for the time when society tries to push him out. That is why he works in water treatment. If the nation collapses, they will still need water. He constantly calls himself a cockroach, which he calls the highest and best creature of Darwinism - because "the cockroach scurries away." It is sickening. He constantly compares himself to cockroaches. That is powerfully depressing to me. He constantly talks about how he wins because "he scurried away!" Sick. He should engage with hope the world.

O-kay.

[ashlesha]

ime 5s can be frustrating to deal with but also maybe my favorite. they also aren't always cloyingly pessimistic, to me . my frustration has come more from me needing to connect and them needing to withdraw at the same time. are there LIE 5s?

your brother sounds like a weird dude, lol. with a very interesting sense of humor.

[InvisibleJim]

The day hope dies your brother will survive and thrive.

[Suz]

lol i like ur bro, Saberstorm! That was hilarious....

[Beautiful sky]

This isn't about his brother per se as it is about E5s in general, I'm assuming. Right Saber?

I think overall, they seem to upset you based on their behavioral patterns. Although, I've not known an LSE 5 before and I don't know how many forum members can attest to having met one.

[glam]

i think i know the attitude you're talking about, though i wouldn't necessarily attribute it to e5s? some depressed & angry people just wanna drag others down to join them in misery.

[MisterNi]

My brother is an E5 likely an LSE. I clash with him!

I bought some tea from Thailand. It was my birthday and I was talking about the Thai tea. I was thinking about how poor they are over there, but then I thought, at least they have healthy tea to drink. I then began to describe the tea plantation and how a friend of mine who is a recent immigrant from Nepal used to work on a tea plantation. I was describing it in an idyllic way. He interrupts me and says (in his usual goblin like body language) "and they lead miserable lives and then they die." Which depressed me so much I had to leave my party.

he constantly giggles about people "losing in the end." He is constantly preparing for the time when society tries to push him out. That is why he works in water treatment. If the nation collapses, they will still need water. He constantly calls himself a cockroach, which he calls the highest and best creature of Darwinism - because "the cockroach scurries away." It is sickening. He constantly compares himself to cockroaches. That is powerfully depressing to me. He constantly talks about how he wins because "he scurried away!" Sick. He should engage with hope the world.

This is seriously the funniest thing I've read in a long time. It sounds like you need a new brother. One who isn't such a drag. Also, E5s tend to be annoying to anyone other than E7s because of what some would consider poor social skills/callous bluntness so that's probably the problem.

[Galen]

The E5s in my life have been rather hit-and-miss. At times it can feel like I'm walking on egg shells, trying to watch my step and make sure I'm not saying anything particularly stupid for fear of being intellectually reprimanded. But once that fear subsides and some greater level of trust is established I find it a rather natural interaction, one that can be unexpectedly beneficial. Of course I have much easier interactions with IXTp E5s than the IXTj ones.

I do recall reading somewhere that 5s and 6s are a pretty terrible pair, but I don't necessarily buy it. 2 + 5 seems like a rather odd pair.

[Narc]

Some of my best friends are 5s.

[OldPathWhiteClouds]

What you described for your brother sounds like an unhealthy 5, they're not all eccentrically depressing like that.

[Narc]

Your brother sounds fucking hilarious.

[blackburry]

I'm def 6w5..


I studied geology originally for pretty much same reasons your brother went into water treatment..
And still try to keep myself kind of up to date on hydrogeology knowledge (bc it's awesome).

.. I lurv science. But for selfish reasons.

[Absurd]

They're fine, I don't find ILI E5 greatly captivating for known reasons though...

Unpleasant sensations around an E5?

How do they snuff out your joy? what do they do.

L. U. L.

[DaftPunk]

Anybody good with enneagram around here? Which type hates the fuck out of e5s?

I suffocate around these doomy people. I so much want to engage the outside world and I am very optimistic. E5s in person are creepy downers to me, and if I do not separate myself from them, they snuff out all my joy and leave me almost clinically depressed.

From one to the many...

Obviously there's no E type who hates E5 in General. But you know that yourself

[Creepy-male]

Anybody good with enneagram around here? Which type hates the fuck out of e5s?

I suffocate around these doomy people. I so much want to engage the outside world and I am very optimistic. E5s in person are creepy downers to me, and if I do not separate myself from them, they snuff out all my joy and leave me almost clinically depressed.

I found this offensive at first because I relate to an e5 and I think some of the issues related to the e5 personality type are more complex than just being shitty human beings at the core. Also I would like to mention that all types have their own failings and weaknesses, in fact a reason to study type is to understand the weaknesses and strengths of others and yourself so that you can achieve harmony in your life. At least that's my motive. Simply propagating a message of hate for a given type is moving against that, it places all the responsibility on that individual to move mountains with their own psychological issues and drains them of energy, it places entirely no emphasis on one's own affairs or weaknesses.

Dislike an e5 for how much they run from reality? There are also types that others dislike for how much they confront and control and dominate reality!

It wasn't until I read that this was about your brother that I relaxed a bit, since its not about me, I didn't feel personally under attack. Also maybe I could read into this as frustration over your brother -- you feel he could be doing more with his life and like a good brother you want to help him excel but feel hopeless over his e5 nature (withdrawing from life).

Helping your brother will not come at assigning him a label that you can hate, it would come from understanding him however. I understand you have to vent, but you are reflecting a lot of negativity back. Imagine the negative person like a tar baby.... you touch them you get it all over you, you may even grow to fear those types because of this, and then you begin to transfer all the problems of the world onto them, everything dirty resides with the tar so everyone else can live perfect lives. Something wrong in your life? It must be the other person's fault, you know who, the outsider, the one that doesn't fit in, the Jews. They are always backstabbing and exploiting others. If only they were all wiped out the world would be better! Scapegoats basically.

Don't scapegoat your brother, either decide to cut the link and move on past his negativity and hope he will find what he's looking for, but if you want to help him, how about you channel some of that optimism and elevate him above the level of a creepy downer. Maybe you've seen another side in him, encourage that instead. You can always laugh at people's extreme negativity -- laughing is great medicine for stress or hopelessness.

[Saberstorm]

I found this offensive at first because I relate to an e5 and I think some of the issues related to the e5 personality type are more complex than just being shitty human beings at the core. Also I would like to mention that all types have their own failings and weaknesses, in fact a reason to study type is to understand the weaknesses and strengths of others and yourself so that you can achieve harmony in your life. At least that's my motive. Simply propagating a message of hate for a given type is moving against that, it places all the responsibility on that individual to move mountains with their own psychological issues and drains them of energy, it places entirely no emphasis on one's own affairs or weaknesses.

Dislike an e5 for how much they run from reality? There are also types that others dislike for how much they confront and control and dominate reality!

It wasn't until I read that this was about your brother that I relaxed a bit, since its not about me, I didn't feel personally under attack. Also maybe I could read into this as frustration over your brother -- you feel he could be doing more with his life and like a good brother you want to help him excel but feel hopeless over his e5 nature (withdrawing from life).

Helping your brother will not come at assigning him a label that you can hate, it would come from understanding him however. I understand you have to vent, but you are reflecting a lot of negativity back. Imagine the negative person like a tar baby.... you touch them you get it all over you, you may even grow to fear those types because of this, and then you begin to transfer all the problems of the world onto them, everything dirty resides with the tar so everyone else can live perfect lives. Something wrong in your life? It must be the other person's fault, you know who, the outsider, the one that doesn't fit in, the Jews. They are always backstabbing and exploiting others. If only they were all wiped out the world would be better! Scapegoats basically.

Don't scapegoat your brother, either decide to cut the link and move on past his negativity and hope he will find what he's looking for, but if you want to help him, how about you channel some of that optimism and elevate him above the level of a creepy downer. Maybe you've seen another side in him, encourage that instead.

Interesting ...

My brother attacks me. Every time I speak, he comes at me with a barrage of slurred voice insults. He says things like "shut up, stupid. Nutty! Are you nutty? Are you nutty? stop it, quit. shut up, Psychopath! Nutcase! Are you nutty?" He says these things with great invective in his voice. There is always a feeling of tension in him, the tension that precedes violence. He tries at all points to intimidate me.

He says these things to me at the very moment that I need his support. We I am reaching out to him so that he may be included in my thoughts. He has constant freakish spasms as he natters these slurred voice insults at me. "Are you nutty? are you nutty? do you think your funny? oh you think your funny? are you nutty? Nutcase! Psychopath! Do you think your funny?" And yes, while trying to physically intimidate me.

He thinks that everybody is "freakish" and gloats at the idea that the universe is indifferent to all people. He giggles and gloats at the idea that people fail to achieve their dreams. He constantly exclaims "Everybody loses in the end!" and begins to giggle manically about it. Then he snaps at me "nutcase, are you nutty? Do you think your funny, psychopath?" He is attacking me. I do not attack him. I avoid him.

I nearly committed suicide because of him. He is my older brother, I was born into his intimidation.

For example, I went into the Marine Corps. It is an elite military unit. My brother spends his time wincing at this achievement and instead talks about "the truly hard men." The Nazis - because they knew everything that they fought for was going to fail, and everything did fail for them. They were open to the indifference of the universe, they embraced it, as hard men should. (He then begins giggling uncontrollably, like a goblin.) They died knowing all life is futile - they were the true hard men. They died freezing to death before the Soviets as true hard men. Futility. They embraced it as truly hard men.

This by the way, is how he expresses the E5 desire to "confront and control and dominate reality!" The true hard men who have embraced the indifference of the universe like the Nazis dying on the eastern front! The true hard men embrace the futility of existence and die in a hole. They confront and control and dominate reality!

All the while he is talking about "the true hard men" he is slobbering over him self both giggling and snapping at me to "Shut up, nutcase, do you think your funny? Psychopath!" It is a nightmare around him.





(And I am not assigning a label that I can hate... this is a causal forum. This not a place for clinical discussions. )

[Saberstorm]

@The Man From Nantucket

I do, by the way, consider your commentary to be insightful. I am growing to be the stronger one, my older brother is stagnant and is weakening from his self imposed isolation. I am the young lion now. And I could try to elevate him.

The danger is that he can be especially toxic to me. That creates a risk to converse with him.

In general, I have been avoiding him. I do not want to be poisoned. When I need his help, he attacks. It is frustrating. Help, by the way, to me is always a need for good cheer and hope, things that induce pain in him.

[Creepy-male]

Thanks for not attacking my post Saberstorm, I think your situation sounds pretty venomous, it is almost unwarranted how abusive that sounds, he sounds like the one that's really in pain and he's putting it on you. You may have to be the stronger one, if you can get to the point psychologically where you can create something of value all the while the critic in your head is screaming at you and demeaning you, you will be doing just fine. It's unfortunate that the environment that exists around people is not always positive and there is so much hate out there, but you got to rise above it. I am in no way telling you its your responsibility to "fix" your brother, but I think you should either approach the issue with resolve to help the situation or with resolve to remove those kind of influences from your life. It can be hard though I would think as this is your brother and likely there is an expectation of what kind of relationship you could have with family or a sibling. Maybe there is still some good qualities in him that have gotten pushed down so far he himself doesn't even realize them.

No offense to your brother, but he sounds like a small man plagued with anger and unacceptence. Everything wrong with the world he absorbs and reflects back to others - he is a victim that wants compensation for the pain of life, that kind of thing is what will become of you if you let that into your being and hate back. It's relatively common, look at the world; crime, hate, rape, theft, envy, greed, corruption, manipulation... it's all there black and white, its out in the environment and its juxtaposed against other things, and remember everyone has their breaking point -- just be glad you haven't been defeated in spirit over it, like some of the less fortunate.

Keep Calm and Carry On.