SLEs/ESTps ignoring and avoiding IEIs/INFps

[Schmoo]

So I've been having issues with a certain SLE. I'm going to give some background. When I first met this guy, he was super funny, he would do things to make me laugh, I absolutely loved being around him, though we never had prolonged conversation. One day, we finally had a more personal, prolonged conversation, and it was the best feeling I've had in a long time. We were laughing and talking - it was pretty much the most amazing thing ever. I got super excited after that night and wanted to talk to him more. I even had a specific question I had lined up that I really wanted to ask him. But things didn't go right after that

The next thing I knew, he started avoiding me. I came to an activity and saw him there, but he left right after I showed up. When he would play basketball in the gym, he used to come over to the drinking fountain by where I would sit, but he started going to the drinking fountain down the hall instead. I started thinking, "Is he avoiding me, or am I going crazy?" This went on, and there came a point when I was about to go out of town for 2 weeks and had to know if he was avoiding me because I didn't want to be wondering about it on my vacation.

So the next time I saw him, he was being all social and I tried to join his conversation. The person he was talking to even acknowledged me, but the SLE turned his body away from me and started talking to this girl as if I weren't there. Ouch. But I got my answer, and that really was a good thing, because I could move on and be done with it (and I WAS done with it... until he started acting all weird again, but now I can't even be positive about this guy and that's a different story) [NOTE: I've had my heart ripped out of my chest by a certain SLE, so you'll have to excuse me for not being positive].

Anyways, he did the exact same thing to me again after I came back from my vacation. He lured me and this other girl so that we were both listening to him and there I was, listening and making supportive comments. Again, he acted like I wasn't even there, only looking at the other girl and completely ignoring my comments, so I promptly walked away from the situation. And so... I don't get it. Is this common behavior for SLE's? To ignore their dual who is right in front of their face, looking at them and trying to converse with them?

[Narc]

Not reading that until you put some line breaks in.

[Beautiful sky]

This doesn't sound like an SLE; SLE see, they like, they touch and they take...end of story.

[Schmoo]

This doesn't sound like an SLE; SLE see, they like, they touch and they take...end of story.

Hmm, I think they're more complex underneath all their behavior though, Maritsa.

[InvisibleJim]

Imagine that, someone not wanting to talk to an IEI.

What a bastard.

[Pookie]

Maybe he's doing that because it works. Look at your behavior.

[MisterNi]

A few things you should consider:

1) The two of you sound young. Younger guys typically don't commit to relationships too readily.
2) The two of you were hitting it off too well so he introduces a third person to make things more interesting for him.
3) He's ignoring you as a power play so he wants you to be less passive.
4) He doesn't know how to react to you so he's ignoring you and acting aloof in response.
5) He may have lost interest in you.
6) Sometimes dudes will feign disinterest in someone for no real reason other than to be a dick. <--- This is not atypical guy behavior.


So, there you have it.

[Kill4Me]

Gimme the short version...In fifty words or less.

[Absurd]

Gimme the short version...In fifty words or less.

She hit it off well with a guy, now he's ignoring her, not acknowledging her in groups, etc. She's wondering if this is typical of SLE guys.

LUL.

[Kill4Me]

She hit it off well with a guy, now he's ignoring her, not acknowledging her in groups, etc. She's wondering if this is typical of SLE guys.

You haven't changed your name to Trolliam, yet.

[Narc]

Stop paying attention to him now. He'll either buckle and try and get you interested again, or you won't have to deal with an immature dick any longer.

Wait, are you in high school or something?

[Scapegrace]

It never works out between IEIs and SLEs. Look at the saga of DJ Arandee and I.

[Schmoo]

Welcome, aubzatuck. For future refrence, don't listen to anything Maritsa has to say about socionics. She's a nice person but a bit of a quack.

Maybe that particular SLE felt like you were getting too close for comfort, and wasn't ready for that kind of relationship? Maybe he could tell you we're liking him a bit too much and knew he wasn't as into you. I remember when I was starting to get to know my SLE ex he kept saying things in the middle of our conversations like "wow... We're getting deep. I usually don't go there with people I don't know well" and he even admitted to it creeping him out a bit at first, but said that by then he was drawn to me like crack and couldn't stay away even though he wanted to. Maybe your SLE got weirded out and felt a bit uncomfortable afterwards.

Thanks, Fireyed. I just think its it's weird how drastic his reaction was. Our conversation wasn't even that deep, I've had conversations a million times deeper. There was even an LSE guy who'd been following me around who was trying to be a part of our conversation, so it wasn't even just the two of us. I think the SLE is just a wussy baby who can't even have a friendly conversation with his dual. It's not like I want to get married or anything (quite the contrary, I'm not the committing type), I just like good conversation.

Oh yeah, also forgot to say that duals tend to ignore each other at first, with the extrovert seeing the introvert as lame and boring and the introvert seeing the extrovert as too cool for them.

Yeah, I know about that. I think I'm the one ignoring him now though.

You should talk to him, imho. Instead of tormenting yourself with guessing games about his motivations. Just see if you can talk to him and ask him what the deal is.

This stuff is common among Beta relationships. One party ignoring the other who might be seen as lower status. Maybe he found another girl he was interested in. Maybe he's not comfortable with his emotions, or trusting others, and felt he got too close to you too quickly. Could be a million reasons. But if you just ask him out-right why it seems he's ignoring you, you could at least have a conversation about it.

Either he'll be a jerk and stupid and you'll discover that you should find a guy more deserving of your attention, or you will have an emotional heart to heart that will end up in hot, steamy, sex, or at least a consolation prize makeout session.

Well, things have changed since the situation I posted about. He's tried getting my attention again and every once in a while I'll find him hovering around me. I thought this was all really weird, since he's been dating a girl 10 years his junior (which is a huge turn-off for me). Honestly, I'm not really interested in him anymore other than to be friends. And if he wanted to be friends, he shouldn't have shunned me like he did. Now I can't get past how he treated me, its like my body remembers it. Whenever there's the possibility of group conversation with him, my body goes into fight or flight mode and I freeze up and peace out.

Maybe he's doing that because it works. Look at your behavior.

What behavior? I didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

[Schmoo]

Let the mind games begin!

Oh God, please no. I've been through this before and it's absolutely horrible. I refuse.

A few things you should consider:

1) The two of you sound young. Younger guys typically don't commit to relationships too readily.
2) The two of you were hitting it off too well so he introduces a third person to make things more interesting for him.
3) He's ignoring you as a power play so he wants you to be less passive.
4) He doesn't know how to react to you so he's ignoring you and acting aloof in response.
5) He may have lost interest in you.
6) Sometimes dudes will feign disinterest in someone for no real reason other than to be a dick. <--- This is not atypical guy behavior.


So, there you have it.

Thanks MisterNi, some of those seem pretty likely. Except we're not that young. He's 28 and I'm 27. I act pretty young for my age though and I think he does too.

Stop paying attention to him now. He'll either buckle and try and get you interested again, or you won't have to deal with an immature dick any longer.

Wait, are you in high school or something?

I did and he did try, but I don't want him in that way. He obviously has some weird preconceived notions about me liking him or something, when I just wanted to be friends. It's too late to go back now. And no, I'm not in high school. I'm 27

[Esaman]

ffs @William, giving advice to new IEI while under troll(?) TIM of SLE.
Giving typical ESE guidline too.
SLE is agressor, extrovert . He probably feels like he is the one who is supposed to provide enthusiasm, initiative and even chase, while the IEI is supposed to limit situation in Ni and Fe ground while showing involuntary or as if involuntary signs of interest. IEI gets most of the control over the distance. SLE gets feeling of achievement.
Well, that is my understanding not confirmed by live observation for the lack of such.

[Narc]

I did and he did try, but I don't want him in that way. He obviously has some weird preconceived notions about me liking him or something, when I just wanted to be friends. It's too late to go back now. And no, I'm not in high school. I'm 27

Fantastic. Ditch the bitch, then.

[Esaman]

I did and he did try, but I don't want him in that way. He obviously has some weird preconceived notions about me liking him or something, when I just wanted to be friends. It's too late to go back now.

Yeah right, "weird"...
Reminder- SLE do have Fi PoLR.

[MisterNi]

Thanks MisterNi, some of those seem pretty likely. Except we're not that young. He's 28 and I'm 27. I act pretty young for my age though and I think he does too.

Well, there're always two sides to any story but there seems to be a lack of communication here which could stem from an issue of maturity.

I did and he did try, but I don't want him in that way. He obviously has some weird preconceived notions about me liking him or something, when I just wanted to be friends. It's too late to go back now. And no, I'm not in high school. I'm 27

Seems like it's a pretty easy decision to make then. He's not interested, you're not interested so just drop the matter.

[Schmoo]

I know I should ditch him. I guess I just wanted to understand what happened, since it was such a strong reaction and now I can't be friends with my dual It's ok though, there are others.

[Beautiful sky]

Tons of them

[Narc]

Too many, one might argue.

[Jenna]

Maybe we should start killing them off

[Kill4Me]

oh shit she's back

[Azure Flame]

So I've been having issues with a certain SLE. I'm going to give some background. When I first met this guy, he was super funny, he would do things to make me laugh, I absolutely loved being around him, though we never had prolonged conversation. One day, we finally had a more personal, prolonged conversation, and it was the best feeling I've had in a long time. We were laughing and talking - it was pretty much the most amazing thing ever. I got super excited after that night and wanted to talk to him more. I even had a specific question I had lined up that I really wanted to ask him. But things didn't go right after that

The next thing I knew, he started avoiding me. I came to an activity and saw him there, but he left right after I showed up. When he would play basketball in the gym, he used to come over to the drinking fountain by where I would sit, but he started going to the drinking fountain down the hall instead. I started thinking, "Is he avoiding me, or am I going crazy?" This went on, and there came a point when I was about to go out of town for 2 weeks and had to know if he was avoiding me because I didn't want to be wondering about it on my vacation.

So the next time I saw him, he was being all social and I tried to join his conversation. The person he was talking to even acknowledged me, but the SLE turned his body away from me and started talking to this girl as if I weren't there. Ouch. But I got my answer, and that really was a good thing, because I could move on and be done with it (and I WAS done with it... until he started acting all weird again, but now I can't even be positive about this guy and that's a different story) [NOTE: I've had my heart ripped out of my chest by a certain SLE, so you'll have to excuse me for not being positive].

Anyways, he did the exact same thing to me again after I came back from my vacation. He lured me and this other girl so that we were both listening to him and there I was, listening and making supportive comments. Again, he acted like I wasn't even there, only looking at the other girl and completely ignoring my comments, so I promptly walked away from the situation. And so... I don't get it. Is this common behavior for SLE's? To ignore their dual who is right in front of their face, looking at them and trying to converse with them?

In my interaction with IEI's, I've had several reactions:

1. I get wierded out because they're trying to tear down my walls and I'm too scared to be that vulnerable. Usually I need more time, or can't talk to them the way they want me to in public.

2. Another time I took a step back and just stalked this girl's facebook for a while. I thought she was really cool, but at the same time, she had zero Se. Usually when I go for women, I search for a fighting spirit, a sort of indestructibility. I find it in other Se folk. She didn't have this at all. I was left completely confused and didn't know if I should pursue her after that. A week of avoiding her went by until I got mad at myself for running away from her, and I made a move. It turned out to be one of my favorite relationships. Only reason it didn't work out was because we were in the navy and had to part ways.

If you want an SLE, you probably shouldn't be such a fluffy bunny. You should probably tell him to go eat shit every once in a while. Get aggressive with him. It might seem totally unnatural to you but the natural IEI fluffy bunny-ness combined with trash talk is possibly the most adorable thing I've ever witnessed.

One of the articles I read, and can't agree with more, is that SLE's are naturally aggressive, and ordinarily seek out indestructible partners who can take their crap and won't break or fall over and cry. IEI's, instead of looking indesructible, often look the complete opposite. They look like a victim. This forces the SLE to feel compassion. Kinda like those cliches of the monster who tamed by a child.

Its unlikely you will have an SLE act cuddly bunny with you in public.

[Absurd]

I thought I'm never going to read you again, DJA. Thank you.

I don't have to mention I entertained the thought of commenting on your youtube vids on my fake account, what I shouldn't be saying at all.

I really lieked the way you're stating you're "not very outgoing Ti subtype of SLE" and self-type social Enneagram instinct second, claiming it is more outgoing or something.

Keep the vids coming, I'm a huge fan.

[Schmoo]

If you want an SLE, you probably shouldn't be such a fluffy bunny. You should probably tell him to go eat shit every once in a while. Get aggressive with him. It might seem totally unnatural to you but the natural IEI fluffy bunny-ness combined with trash talk is possibly the most adorable thing I've ever witnessed.

One of the articles I read, and can't agree with more, is that SLE's are naturally aggressive, and ordinarily seek out indestructible partners who can take their crap and won't break or fall over and cry. IEI's, instead of looking indesructible, often look the complete opposite. They look like a victim. This forces the SLE to feel compassion. Kinda like those cliches of the monster who tamed by a child.

Its unlikely you will have an SLE act cuddly bunny with you in public.

Hahaha, in the prolonged conversation I mentioned above with the SLE, we actually talked about bunnies and kittens and looked at bunny and kitten pictures online (he was trying to prove to me that there was such a thing as a bunny-kitty hybrid, which he never did).

Also, it must be true that us IEI's are adorable when we talk trash. I've adopted a sassy attitude lately (mostly with guys, cause I'm just sick of them in general) and I now have more guys swarming around me than ever before. Like I'm the queen bee and they all want my honey. Its weird.

[mikemex]

Well, that kind of things happen. There is an SLI girl I see from time to time. I knew she liked me but I'm a bit serious in general and don't open up quickly. She kept giving me signals so one day I simply stayed and had a long chat with her. She seemed excited and even gave me her phone number.

Something happened though and now she gives me the cold shoulder. Still friendly but she's obviously avoiding me. I think she got scared to open up with me and now she has her shields up again.

[betterthan]

In my interaction with IEI's, I've had several reactions:

1. I get wierded out because they're trying to tear down my walls and I'm too scared to be that vulnerable. Usually I need more time, or can't talk to them the way they want me to in public.

2. Another time I took a step back and just stalked this girl's facebook for a while. I thought she was really cool, but at the same time, she had zero Se. Usually when I go for women, I search for a fighting spirit, a sort of indestructibility. I find it in other Se folk. She didn't have this at all. I was left completely confused and didn't know if I should pursue her after that. A week of avoiding her went by until I got mad at myself for running away from her, and I made a move. It turned out to be one of my favorite relationships. Only reason it didn't work out was because we were in the navy and had to part ways.

If you want an SLE, you probably shouldn't be such a fluffy bunny. You should probably tell him to go eat shit every once in a while. Get aggressive with him. It might seem totally unnatural to you but the natural IEI fluffy bunny-ness combined with trash talk is possibly the most adorable thing I've ever witnessed.

One of the articles I read, and can't agree with more, is that SLE's are naturally aggressive, and ordinarily seek out indestructible partners who can take their crap and won't break or fall over and cry. IEI's, instead of looking indesructible, often look the complete opposite. They look like a victim. This forces the SLE to feel compassion. Kinda like those cliches of the monster who tamed by a child.

Its unlikely you will have an SLE act cuddly bunny with you in public.

IEI's are the fluffy bunnies

EXPAND YOUR MIND DJ Arendee. Think the emotionally dramatic, outraged kind of tough; this is like the sole way I used to relate to an SLE in school...not like *oh you are bullying the fat kid - aww that's okay <3 - you're still awesome, I know you only do it because nobody loves you* - I think the only reason that we had the amazing chemistry we did was because we fucking hated each other and were continually pissed off and playing games and one upping the other. IEI's aren't just like this sweet all accepting lovely person 24/7.

Watch Heathers!

This is an amazing depiction of the IEI v some kind of beta ST. The Beta ST, is having none of the resistance, and the IEI is getting *FURIOUSLY tough*. And the beta ST finds it funny as the IEI becomes more and more outraged and dramatic. Fe sub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvgap8p0tkM

Anddd this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l7gHAORbmw

This is such shit quality but *point made*.

And OP. I find ALL SLE's do this to some extent; I think they get uncertain if you like them or whatever (even my female SLE friend is kind of like this...). And guy SLE's I always feel like they are trying to play you because they want you or want you to want them (BOTH most likely lol) .

[bolong]

This is an amazing depiction of the IEI v some kind of beta ST. The Beta ST, is having none of the resistance, and the IEI is getting *FURIOUSLY tough*. And the beta ST finds it funny as the IEI becomes more and more outraged and dramatic. Fe sub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvgap8p0tkM

How did you decide this was an IEI / beta ST example? JW

[Azure Flame]

Idunno that girl looks ENFp to me. She has absolutely no ability to yell at people. I'm pretty sure IEI's have at least 2% more volitional force than she has.

[Azure Flame]

Hahaha, in the prolonged conversation I mentioned above with the SLE, we actually talked about bunnies and kittens and looked at bunny and kitten pictures online (he was trying to prove to me that there was such a thing as a bunny-kitty hybrid, which he never did).

Also, it must be true that us IEI's are adorable when we talk trash. I've adopted a sassy attitude lately (mostly with guys, cause I'm just sick of them in general) and I now have more guys swarming around me than ever before. Like I'm the queen bee and they all want my honey. Its weird.

yeah, gimme somma dat queen bee shit

[Kim]

Holy shit. That was like watching a fight with me & my SLE. HAHA.

They don't take our anger seriously

Mature SLEs who care about you will take your anger very seriously. That's not SLE-IEI duality in that video. SLEs are not psycho abusers who treat IEIs (or anyone, really) like their toys. His shitty behavior towards you is not type-related and you are not doing yourself a favor rationalizing it as such.

[betterthan]

How did you decide this was an IEI / beta ST example? JW

Just because it's a reflection of my personal experience which is a crap 'reason' haha, sorry. I wouldn't know how to prove it to you...

Just the extent to which he so pisses her off and she's really emotionally reactive but he just ISN'T fazed. Like that's totally been my experience.

I'm not sure what type the guy character is...but she seems like an IEI (I just relate to her I guess..and my boyfriend was like *whoa she's like YOU* and tried to nickname me after her lol). I say the *dynamic* is really reflective of certain beta interactions - the anger of the nf v the unfazedness of the beta ST.

It's only ESTps that I have gotten this furyyy with, like not with my ENTp boyfriend (who is an SLE 8), I'm pretty calm and shit with him, I'll bust his balls and it'll annoy him...but I'm more joking around/testing limits than being serious. ESTp's just have the tendency to be cocky shits who assume you will sleep with them and then walk all over people but have this charisma so they can pull it off...which makes me furious. I think it's their complete vibe of 'i'm going to totally get what I want here with you regardless of what you want' - like you're an object to be taken - *fuck no*.

Also the male character is totally unfazed by her anger, and even finds it amusing, endearing; which is how I've found their reaction to be.

Sorry I can't give you any proper examples... but could we at least say she's fe lol ? What do you think about their types/dynamic?

Also...what is JW?!

[betterthan]

Holy shit. That was like watching a fight with me & my SLE. HAHA.

They don't take our anger seriously

Haha, *thanks* Starfall . I know lol! It's just cute or amusing to them - which makes you more pissed off!

[betterthan]

Mature SLEs who care about you will take your anger very seriously. That's not SLE-IEI duality in that video. SLEs are not psycho abusers who treat IEIs (or anyone, really) like their toys. His shitty behavior towards you is not type-related and you are not doing yourself a favor rationalizing it as such.

I agree with you but I just want to say it is an example of *SOME* versions of SLE and IEI duality. They aren't all psycho abusers, totally not, but like sometimes they can be like that; it's anger and dramatics, rather than genuine cruelty. I think it's an example of the victim-aggressor thing is some regards. Not all of them are like that (like my boyfriend is really sweet and he's an SLE) but also I don't think the argument and how they respond to one another is depicting abuse. Like the aggressor thing of trying to break down the victim and sometimes being quite aggressive, cruel and whatever - I'm not trying to promote a false idea of 'all SLE's' - I'm just speaking from experience (the SLE's I know can also be really just and lovely, they just sometimes have that side to them...). Also I think it depicts how the SLE kind of likes to wind the IEI up, and then how the IEI pushes back and gets angry, and the SLE then laughs and softens up which defuses the situation (any guy that doesn't respect your anger when they have genuinely hurt you *is* just a prick).

[betterthan]

Idunno that girl looks ENFp to me. She has absolutely no ability to yell at people. I'm pretty sure IEI's have at least 2% more volitional force than she has.

Haha. Good luck with your first real life interactions with an IEI; we will break you.

[betterthan]

How did you decide this was an IEI / beta ST example? JW

I think it depicts how the SLE kind of likes to wind the IEI up, and then how the IEI pushes back and gets angry, and the SLE then laughs and softens up which defuses the situation

- just posting this again. It's an example of the victim-aggressor 'game'. I think ignoring is definitely part of the game as well. Not sure if this is just an ESTp SLE thing, as my ENTp boyfriend says he hates games and likes things to be upfront. But I think in general there is a lot of pushing, pulling, game playing with SLE-IEI. Like we both want to be in control (more of ourselves, and immune and independent so nobody can fuck that up), and the other shakes that up which enrages us. The SLE is someone that will walk over all the lines you've drawn when nobody else would. And I guess the IEI is the only one that really shakes up the SLE in return and can make them cut their shit (or maybe that's just beta nf v beta st...dunno just playing with ideas ).

[bolong]

I agree with @Kim, ime both SLE and LSI take my anger (directed at them) very seriously, esp bc there's a sort of unspoken understanding that I'm mostly laid back about everything, so when I am angry, it's serious. I feel an obligation not to take advantage of this too, at the risk of falling into the "crying wolf" game.

The exceptions are when it's very obviously play-fighting, at which point the physical contact overrides everything else. Or when the anger is directed toward a third-party, which is very amusing for them so I keep it up and up the dramatics to make them laugh.

Idk, ime a fight is a full-blown fight, which needs an emotional cleansing (tears) from one or both sides to be resolved. Everything else is just playing, and the emotional atmosphere is very light and jovial to reflect that. The whole pissing each other off and laughing about it sounds very Gamma to me...

i.e. last week my LSI bf was incoherently drunk before I even got home, at like 7:30 in the evening. He always does this when he's out with friends, and I don't say anything. I got way too pissed this time though, and I acted a bit like Winona in terms of my tone (this is too much! *arm flail*). He was very upset by this - remember that Beta ST is very much affected by our moods - he left me at the restaurant we were at. When I got home I saw that he had been crying (he never cries) and that made me also cry. Then we kissed and made up. Proper Beta-worthy drama.

JW is just wondering..

And are you dating ENTp or ESTp? I got a little confused..

[Beautiful sky]

Did you go get another SLE?

[Azure Flame]

Haha. Good luck with your first real life interactions with an IEI; we will break you.

I certainly hope so. I'm bored as fuck over here

also the last "IEI" I spoke to doesn't yell at me at all, he just sorta hardheads his way his way through my fus roh dah. Its more surprising and bewildering than anything.