View Poll Results: what is Charles Darwin's type?

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Thread: Charles Darwin

  1. #1

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    Default Charles Darwin

    ... it baffles me how often he is considered an ENTP. Can someone help explain this to me?

    Here's what I know about him...

    He claimed that the key to his success was a consistent work schedule; like "clockwork" he said. He would begin at 9:30 everyday, lay out all of his daily activities, work, have lunch, and continue working, etc... and end at about the same time every day.

    He would go on solitary "thinking" walks, as he called them, for both physical and mental exercise.

    He was described as a "wide-eyed observer, and an analytical thinker".

    He was a naturalist, and enjoyed exploring nature.

    He collected shells, rocks, and enjoyed watching birds/etc... as a kid.

    And his work also revolved around a patient and painstaking attention to detail, detail, and detail. Now, most ENTPs HATE HATE HATE the very word. Even on boards like these, the ENTPs claim that they have no ability to concentrate for such things.

    So why damn him as an ENTP?

    I guess it's always possible, but I've never heard anyone be able to explain it.

    Please, give me another view and tell me why I'm wrong.

    :/
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    What do you think is his type Rocky?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    I've said ESTJ before, but I also thought about ISTJ.

    Carl Jung said "Extraverted Thinking".

    To be honest, most of my information about him is from the Darwin exhibit at the Museum of Natural History.

    But he doesn't sound ENTP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Darwin seems ILI to me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    But he doesn't sound ENTP.
    Yeah he never came off ENTp to me.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    I don't agree with ENTP either, but neither do I like ESTJ or ISTJ.

    What about INTP, like gilligan says? @rocky

    ps: rocky did you ask your father about what I said?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    What about INTP, like gilligan says? @rocky
    OK.

    Why?

    ps: rocky did you ask your father about what I said?
    Sorry, but I didn't. To be honset, I don't know how he'd help you. And like I said, he doesn't believe much about this kind of stuff anyway, and when you get to that age, people rarely accept such different view points then the ones theyve know all their lives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    What about INTP, like gilligan says? @rocky
    OK.

    Why?

    ps: rocky did you ask your father about what I said?
    Sorry, but I didn't. To be honset, I don't know how he'd help you. And like I said, he doesn't believe much about this kind of stuff anyway, and when you get to that age, people rarely accept such different view points then the ones theyve know all their lives.
    Well, I just asked how one can use a scientific discovery, the question itself has nothing to do with socionics. I mean, in his work your father might have made some discovery, did he publish it, what did he do?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    What about INTP, like gilligan says? @rocky
    OK.

    Why?

    .
    Giligan, you first.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  10. #10
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Perhaps not Alpha? This is going to sound like a dumb reason but perhaps because he reused the term of "survival of the fittest" from other sources. Although once I read that ENTp's "recycle ideas anew" but I think that something else was meant (like taking something old and redefining it--not reusing it).

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    @Jadae: Darwin never said "survival of the fittest".

    @Dio: Where ever my Dad worked as a scientest, they always made their own publications. That's how it works. You become a doctor, then they publish what you say. You're problem is that you're not a doctor, you don't work for any science institution, and you haven't done any research yourself (sorry if that sounds harsh). Of course you could always write something on your own if you'd like, but you don't get anything published in the scientific community unless you have a job as a scientist, period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    @Jadae: Darwin never said "survival of the fittest".

    @Dio: Where ever my Dad worked as a scientest, they alwayes made their own publications. That's how it works. You become a doctor, then they publish what you say. You're problem is that you're not a doctor, you don't work for any science institution, and you haven't don any research yourself (sorry if that sounds harsh). Of course you could always write something on your own if you'd like, but you don't get anything published in the scientific community unless you have a job as a scientist, period.
    Thanks Rocky, my question to your father is whether there are any other avenues I might use? What do you think?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Well, I know to get a doctorite, you have to be working for at least four years or so at most places (something like that), so it is a lot of work and a lot of invested time, so I don't think there are any sort cuts. To be as honest as possible, "scientists" won't respect you unless you go through what they did and actually make a CAREER out of it, doing research and so on.

    However, you can market pseudo-science and do quite well outside of the scientifc community.

    But there are no other ways besides actually doing something about it, and doing research. You can't just "publish" something because you want to.

    Sorry.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Well, I know to get a doctorite, you have to be working for at least four years or so at most places (something like that), so it is a lot of work and a lot of invested time, so I don't think there are any sort cuts. To be as honest as possible, "scientists" won't respect you unless you go through what they did and actually make a CAREER out of it, doing research and so on.

    However, you can market pseudo-science and do quite well outside of the scientifc community.

    But there are no other ways besides actually doing something about it, and doing research. You can't just "publish" something because you want to.

    Sorry.
    Its' an actuall discovery Rocky, its' done, I don't need to prove, I can merely state it in a paragraph and the whole reserch world would change.

    Please it takes you no time at all to bring it up by saying: "I met thiz crazy guy and he thinks he has discovered the cure for cancer, how can he bring that to attention? "
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    OK, I'll ask him, but the reason I was hesitant is because I know what he'll say (what I already told you).

    First, just tell me what "research" you did to make you're discovery.

    If you don't have anything scientific, then there's is no way, no question, no chance, of publishing anything scientifically. Clearly.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    OK, I'll ask him, but the reason I was hesitant is because I know what he'll say (what I already told you).

    First, just tell me what "research" you did to make you're discovery.

    If you don't have anything scientific, then there's is no way, no question, no chance, of publishing anything scientifically. Clearly.
    Just ask him and see if there is any other option. I just want people to acknoledge my discovery, it will be proved whenever I get the chance.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    You're not making any sense.

    You ask for a short cut to publish a "discovery", then you say it doesn't need to be proved, then you claim you'll prove it after after you publish something?!?! That's maddness.

    This is precisely why I wasn't going to ask him in the first place; one because you don't make any sense, and two because you have nothing to back whatever it is you want to claim. If I do go ask my Dad, he'll probably think I got hit over the head and lost IQ points or something. Totally unreasonable.

    I told you already, there are NO other options, especially if you are just going to be acting like a crazy theorist. Science doesn't work that way. You have to GET A JOB and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT... make an ACTUAL DISCOVERY, not some crack pot idea. There are lots of crack pot ideas out there, and people who have them believe that they are true, but doesn't make it so.

    Pseudo-science is what you're looking for, not science. You can write anything you want, put in in a book or on a website, with your name on it. But no scientific publication will do what you're asking, trust me.

    I wish you were here and could tell this to my dad straight in his face, because I'm %100 sure he would slap you in the face. I know how these things work, and they don't work your way. Go back and read everything I've written until you get it.

    It may be a hard thing to accept, but that's what the world's like if you want to expose an idea to it.

    Grow some S, please.



    Can we get back on topic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
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    Dioklecian's Avatar
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    Rocky I know these things. Thats' ok. I very strongly doubt that your father would react as you say, whoever studies science knows that the biggest discoveries are accidental by the very NATUre of DICSCOVERY, you can't plan it :wink: I could bring here tons of logic and philosophy and etc etc etc etc etc, but I have already done that and I can't write it here. There are plenty of books of course and I can recommend some.

    But there is a bad vibe around because I seek the unvernished truth, many have suffered about it, I am not the first.

    As to topic, every single guess presented is wrong IMO.

    If you want my opinion, then be also helpful and ask you father very simply: if a non-professional researchers has made an important discovery by semi-chance, how can he go about it? What avenues are possible?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

  19. #19
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    holy crap diockleclan you are foreign and retarded?
    asd

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    @Jadae: Darwin never said "survival of the fittest".
    How did it become attributed to him (even when it was not his)? And does that say anything about him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    @Jadae: Darwin never said "survival of the fittest".
    How did it become attributed to him (even when it was not his)? And does that say anything about him?
    That quote was by Herbert Spencer, who applied Darwin's theory of natural selection to his own theories about economic success or failure -- called "Social Darwinism" later, not sure if by Spencer himself. I guess it became attributed to Darwin by people who did not bother to make the distinction between Darwin and Spencer. It can also be argued that it does apply to evolution, even if Darwin himself never said it.

    As for Darwin's type, I had also typed him as ENTp originally -- a bit too quickly. I agree that his systematic behavior while doing research goes against it, but the problem with ESTj is his behavior after he returned from the Beagle voyage - - it took him forever to write anything. He seemed to have no energy left.

    @Dioklecian: please continue this discussion, if you must, on a thread in "Anything Goes". Anyway, I have published scientific papers myself and I agree with Rocky.

    @heath: foreign has nothing to do with "retarded".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  22. #22
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Aww, thanks Expat! I guess that leaves me with a dead end on my thought. Spencer was indeed the man I was previously referring to as the original. I still wonder how the attribution originally happened? We may never know.

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    Maybe ISTp. Because an ISTp has Te. (if Jung says it's Te, who am I to argue. Really.). And he doesn't really seem INTp.

    For me, the picture doesn't say that he's not ISTp. He does looks somewhat ESTj, but I'm going with ISTp because of non-VI reasons.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    As for Darwin's type, I had also typed him as ENTp originally -- a bit too quickly. I agree that his systematic behavior while doing research goes against it, but the problem with ESTj is his behavior after he returned from the Beagle voyage - - it took him forever to write anything. He seemed to have no energy left.
    Yeah, actually, taking 25 years to write his paper was one reason I didn't think he was ENTP, either. They sometimes have a habit of jumping in too quickly... ISTJ on the other hand...

    @Dioklecian: please continue this discussion, if you must, on a thread in "Anything Goes". Anyway, I have published scientific papers myself and I agree with Rocky.
    Thank You.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Default Re: Please, enlighten me about Charles Darwin...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Please, give me another view and tell me why I'm wrong.
    From his writings, he quite clearly comes across as an INTp, IMHO.

    Lots of Ni there, with an occasional reasoning chain.


    Greetings, ragnar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    I've said ESTJ before
    concur

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    holy crap diockleclan you are foreign and retarded?
    Yes I am foreign to your numb skull. Your posts make 0 sense, I have never understood any of them, you need some thinking lessons.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    As for Darwin's type, I had also typed him as ENTp originally -- a bit too quickly. I agree that his systematic behavior while doing research goes against it, but the problem with ESTj is his behavior after he returned from the Beagle voyage - - it took him forever to write anything. He seemed to have no energy left.
    Yeah, actually, taking 25 years to write his paper was one reason I didn't think he was ENTP, either. They sometimes have a habit of jumping in too quickly... ISTJ on the other hand...

    @Dioklecian: please continue this discussion, if you must, on a thread in "Anything Goes". Anyway, I have published scientific papers myself and I agree with Rocky.
    Thank You.
    When I make my trillions I will invite you all for a party
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    You've had your say Dioklecian, now give it a rest or I'll kick you out of this thread.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    You've had your say Dioklecian, now give it a rest or I'll kick you out of this thread.
    Ummm, I haven't actually said what type he is. I think I am right,

    would anyone like to know? Or am I too inexperienced for some?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    About Darwin....This place says ILI and explains why: http://www.socionics.us/celebrities/ili.shtml
    I'm not going to argue with it since I know very little about the guy.

    Edit: Note to admins: I didn't see this was already a forbidden subject. Contact me if you want this moved to another thread. Or let is stay here but let's stop the discussion now ok? Please don't just delete it since it took time to write it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dioklecian
    if a non-professional researchers has made an important discovery by semi-chance, how can he go about it? What avenues are possible?
    Possible avenues that come to my mind...

    Scientific community:
    a) You will pretty much have to contact some university and be accepted as a PhD student. Then you can develop your idea into a form that the scientific community around the world will accept. This is a rigorous and years long process.
    b) You can also just write research papers and try to send them in some scientific conferences or journals in your own name or in some company's name. If you are not familiar what are the standards your paper has to meet it is highly unlikely it will get accepted. If you are not a member of some organization with a good reputation it is even more unlikely. In most fields of science there are way more papers sent for evaluation than actually get through. But everything is possible.

    Business community:
    a) If your idea has any practical applications you can start a company around it. If you can figure out killer products based on your idea you might get huge amounts of money from some venture capitalist or perhaps from a foundation who gives money to these kind of purposes. You don't have to have the products ready right away instead they may give you years to come up with something concrete if you can sell your idea to them and it has enough potential.
    b) You can get employed by some company where they let you develop your idea. In this case your idea would have to have some benefits to the company.

    Internet:
    a) You can start a blog / web site and a web community around your idea. When your site gets famous in the web and the community grows perhaps people outside the web like reporters will get interested and in the end you might be contacted by people who can make things happen in the real world. A bit similar to what socionics community is trying to do.
    You should also create an article into wikipedia. Give a fancy name to your theory and write about it. Then provide links to relevant sources like your website.
    c)Linux operating system's story started from one post to a certain usenet news group. You could also go there, start a thread and get people discuss your idea. This was the post Linus Torvalds made in 1991.

    "Hello everybody out there using minix -

    I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
    professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
    since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
    things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
    (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
    among other things).

    I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
    This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
    I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
    are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)

    PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
    It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
    will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(."

    Now after fifteen years Linux is one of the leading operating systems in the world, many companies are build around it, it is most popular choice for a web servicing operating system etc. So unusual things can happen.

    Give some kind of fancy name to your theory and perhaps it will become bigger than socionics in the end

    Whatever you end up doing you probably can't do much alone. In the Internet you might be able to spread your idea even alone for some time but in order for it to become big you will have to find right people to work with who will believe in your idea and can provide you with skills you lack.

    Ok. This is what I can come up with. Anyways it will require a lot of work and of course your idea should be good enough.

    Edit: To answer the post below (I don't want to create new posts since admin have said it is not allowed). I have been involved in research in my past. I'm not anymore. However I can't help you more than what I wrote above. Easiest way to publish something is to create a website and a wikipedia article and then try to promote these in proper places like newsgroups and see what will happen.

    Edit: Oh I forgot one obvious route. Especially in case of a discovery you could of course start writing a book about it. Make a good manuscript and send it to some publisher. If it goes through you can finish your book and get it published perhaps all over the world. Think of Da Vinci Code. The claims there were mostly plagiated or fabricated trash but it sold like nothing before. So the process of getting a book published is very different from getting a scientific paper published. Instead of selling your idea to the scientific community you have to sell it to the publisher and in the end to common people buying the books. Writing a book about your discovery and trying to get it published might be the best route to go in this case.

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    About Darwin: I don't agree with ILI.

    Otherwise:

    Well its' not so much an idea as a discovery: I have discovered something very surprising and would like to give it to people so that they can do much more work with it, but its' not an idea, its' an outright discovery. So I can't patent it or anything, do you know if I could patent it?

    Are you involved in research yourself?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    I won't go on with this discussion anymore but look at my previous post. I added some extra comments in the end. Good luck with your effort.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    AND THE WINNER IS:


    --

    --

    --
    CHARLES DARWIN IS :




    --

    --


    --


    LII

    (in my humble opinion).
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone.
    Charles Darwin
    False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they often endure long; but false views, if supported by some evidence, do little harm, for every one takes a salutary pleasure in proving their falseness.
    Charles Darwin
    I am turned into a sort of machine for observing facts and grinding out conclusions.
    Charles Darwin
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.
    Charles Darwin
    My mind seems to have become a kind of machine for grinding general laws out of large collections of facts.
    Charles Darwin
    We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.
    Charles Darwin
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    @Jadae: Darwin never said "survival of the fittest".
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia.org
    It was used by Darwin in the 5th edition of The Origin published on 10 February 1869, in a secondary header of Chapter 4 about natural selection and at several places in the text, mostly using the phrase "Natural Selection, or the Survival of the Fittest". He gave full credit to Spencer, writing "I have called this principle, by which each slight variation, if useful, is preserved, by the term natural selection, in order to mark its relation to man's power of selection. But the expression often used by Mr. Herbert Spencer, of the Survival of the Fittest, is more accurate, and is sometimes equally convenient."
    Visit http://www.bartleby.com/11/4001.html for the passage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by detail
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    @Jadae: Darwin never said "survival of the fittest".
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia.org
    It was used by Darwin in the 5th edition of The Origin published on 10 February 1869, in a secondary header of Chapter 4 about natural selection and at several places in the text, mostly using the phrase "Natural Selection, or the Survival of the Fittest". He gave full credit to Spencer, writing "I have called this principle, by which each slight variation, if useful, is preserved, by the term natural selection, in order to mark its relation to man's power of selection. But the expression often used by Mr. Herbert Spencer, of the Survival of the Fittest, is more accurate, and is sometimes equally convenient."
    Visit http://www.bartleby.com/11/4001.html for the passage.
    Fuck, I meant to say he never said it *first*, as in he's not the one who coined it. You knew that.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    You knew that.
    Apparently you didn't know that i didn't know.

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