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Thread: I find the current socionic 4-letter system and 3-letter systems are tedious

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    Default I find the current socionic 4-letter system and 3-letter systems are tedious

    I came from MBTI, and while I have adapted to the differences of socionics and MBTI, I still have to think for a few seconds just to figure out who's who.
    Here are the un-ergonomic problems I've observed:
    1. 'E's are used to represent both extroverts and feelers.
    2. 'I's are used to represent both introverts and intuitors
    3. When converting 3-letter to 4-letter, the first letter I'm going to figure out is E/I, but the E/I scale is at the end of the 3-letter system.

    This is the 3-letter system that I would feel most comfortable with:

    ENTp = ENT
    INFj = IFN
    ISFp = ISF
    ESTj = ETS
    and so on.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________
    (On a side note, I'd like to say that socionics is so much better than MBTI. In socionics, I can understand and empathize with every IM element and every sociotype. In MBTI, most types just don't make any sense to me, upon first observation. Everything is beautifully and mathematically laid out and socionics has so many more interesting dichotomies. I just wish it was more popular in the Americas and on the internet.)

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    dugga dugga dun Narc's Avatar
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    lol

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    I'll contact Aushra and pass on your complaint. Worry not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    ENTp = ENT
    I'm off board, this system is too confusing. I won't know if you're talking about NeTi, or mythical tree creatures from the LotR universe.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I'll contact Aushra and pass on your complaint. Worry not.
    Are you implying that nether exists?

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    I agree on the three letter one. Reading the first two is ok, but to actually figure out what ego elements are being mentioned it forces me to either memorize the symbolic names, or do an extra conversion step. This is why I usually write something like "NeFi". It also reduces confusion regarding social extro/intro-version vs socionics' object/field.

    Use whatever works for you, just consider communication needs.
    For example, I use "TPE" to refer to Things, People, Events (objects), but another gal uses "TPE" to mean something completely different ..Something Psychic Energy. I think her use of it is as another way to say "type". But the difference has caused confusion a couple of times.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I agree on the three letter one. Reading the first two is ok, but to actually figure out what ego elements are being mentioned it forces me to either memorize the symbolic names, or do an extra conversion step. This is why I usually write something like "NeFi". It also reduces confusion regarding social extro/intro-version vs socionics' object/field.

    Use whatever works for you, just consider communication needs.
    For example, I use "TPE" to refer to Things, People, Events (objects), but another gal uses "TPE" to mean something completely different ..Something Psychic Energy. I think her use of it is as another way to say "type". But the difference has caused confusion a couple of times.
    What I should do is continue to use my ENTp = ENT system. The problem is that I may have to take a minute for every 2.5 posts to explain that ENTp = ENT, INFj = IFN. Hopefully if I am active enough, this system may become more popular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    Are you implying that nether exists?
    Nope. At least I didn't find it yet...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Nope. At least I didn't find it yet...
    Then you probably shouldn't guarantee that you'll get the message to Aushra, who is dead. Contact me if you manage, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckr View Post
    2006 called, it wants its debates over sociotype notation back.
    Hand me the phone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckr View Post
    Too late, it'd already went to voicemail. Better luck next time.
    2006, y u do dis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckr View Post
    It was a sullen and foul-tempered year, don't blame yourself.
    Just give me two weeks and I might stop crying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    What I should do is continue to use my ENTp = ENT system. The problem is that I may have to take a minute for every 2.5 posts to explain that ENTp = ENT, INFj = IFN. Hopefully if I am active enough, this system may become more popular.
    I guess it's better to just take the 10 minutes and learn the proper ones. I can assure you that nobody will use your system now that other notations are already established and used for years.

    The last letter is always either I or E (introvert/extrovert). The first letter depends on the primary information element.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa3s View Post
    I guess it's better to just take the 10 minutes and learn the proper ones. I can assure you that nobody will use your system now that other notations are already established and used for years.

    The last letter is always either I or E (introvert/extrovert). The first letter depends on the primary information element.
    I don't really care.
    My optimism and patience stats are above level 25.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    My optimism and patience stats are above level 25.
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    good topic that addresses something all too overlooked. i always liked the two letter system:

    F
    I
    P
    E
    S
    T
    L
    R

    IL = ENTp
    IR = ENFp
    ET = ENFj

    read about it
    It was in the reign of George III that the aforesaid personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now.

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    I dislike the four letter system now that I've had to explain Socionics to a million people. I much prefer base function and creative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    Then you probably shouldn't guarantee that you'll get the message to Aushra, who is dead. Contact me if you manage, though.
    Oh she is? Didn't know that. Silly me...

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    I'm all for the one letter system:

    ILE - L
    SEI - I
    LII - C
    ESE - K

    SLE - M
    IEI - Y
    LSI - A
    EIE - R

    and so on.

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    Three letter system like ILI, SEE, etc., that's my fav; differentiates Socionics from MBTI, has no stinking latin in it.

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    Russians got it sorted with one or two syllable long shortenings of "archetype" like "Robespierre" to "Rob". No way will it work in English though.
    TiNe and so forth are good by me. Is readable, though not in English...

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    Me too. We should just label them A through P and eliminate the redundant characters.

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    I think the 3 letter is fine.

    ILE - E applies to the first letter. And the last letter has its own meaning.
    And after a short time, we talk about types using these names.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    I came from MBTI, and while I have adapted to the differences of socionics and MBTI, I still have to think for a few seconds just to figure out who's who.
    Here are the un-ergonomic problems I've observed:
    1. 'E's are used to represent both extroverts and feelers.
    2. 'I's are used to represent both introverts and intuitors
    3. When converting 3-letter to 4-letter, the first letter I'm going to figure out is E/I, but the E/I scale is at the end of the 3-letter system.

    This is the 3-letter system that I would feel most comfortable with:

    ENTp = ENT
    INFj = IFN
    ISFp = ISF
    ESTj = ETS
    and so on.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________
    (On a side note, I'd like to say that socionics is so much better than MBTI. In socionics, I can understand and empathize with every IM element and every sociotype. In MBTI, most types just don't make any sense to me, upon first observation. Everything is beautifully and mathematically laid out and socionics has so many more interesting dichotomies. I just wish it was more popular in the Americas and on the internet.)
    The only difference between your letter code and the classic letter code is the switch of the first and third letter and that you use T for L and F for E.

    Good job.

    P.S.: It's like north carolina should be named carolina north. I really don't see your point

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    The only difference between your letter code and the classic letter code is the switch of the first and third letter and that you use T for L and F for E.

    Good job.

    P.S.: It's like north carolina should be named carolina north. I really don't see your point
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    The only difference between your letter code and the classic letter code is the switch of the first and third letter and that you use T for L and F for E.

    Good job.

    P.S.: It's like north carolina should be named carolina north. I really don't see your point
    In french, technically it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    The only difference between your letter code and the classic letter code is the switch of the first and third letter and that you use T for L and F for E.

    Good job.

    P.S.: It's like north carolina should be named carolina north. I really don't see your point
    I wasn't making an assertion. I am suggesting what is, for me, a more comfortable, familiar and attractive notation. Not to mention that your analogy is way off.

    The usual notation has 3 symbols, some of which are the same. So imagine that North East England was actually called East England North. In order to figure out what the first function of the type is (the area of England, in this case), you need to look at the first and then the last words. I just find this process annoying and counter-intuitive. But now, let's abbreviate East England North as EEN. To someone foreign to the country, the abbreviation EEN for "East England North" sounds silly, and they would normally expect it, instead, to stand for "England East North," except if England was an adjective, just like "extroverted" is an adjective.
    Last edited by Wallon; 12-22-2013 at 09:37 PM. Reason: correction of analogy
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    I wasn't making an assertion. I am suggesting what is, for me, a more comfortable, familiar and attractive notation. Not to mention that your analogy is way off.

    The usual notation has 3 symbols, some of which are the same. So imagine that North East England was actually called East England North. In order to figure out what the first function of the type is (the area of England, in this case), you need to look at the first and then the last words. I just find this process annoying and counter-intuitive. But now, let's abbreviate East England North as EEN. To someone foreign to the country, the abbreviation EEN for "East England North" sounds silly, and they would normally expect it, instead, to stand for "England East North," except if England was an adjective, just like "extroverted" is an adjective.
    Your example doesn't fit the bill. North and East are directions and England a country(or whatever) you could take North and East for IEs and England for extrovarted introverted. So you have England North East or North East England.
    Your example is a unnecessary derailment e.g sensoric-introvert-logical

    I don't say your system is worse it's just pretty much the same besides that the classic letter code is aesthetically more pleasing IMO.

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    Like or dislike it. That's your prerogative. I'm pretty sure no one's going to adopt your system though, so if you want to communicate effectively and be taken seriously it might not be the best idea to use your system in regular posts. After all, the existing 3 letter system is easy enough to learn and is useful in setting Socionics apart from MBTT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    I came from MBTI...
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________
    (On a side note, I'd like to say that socionics is so much better than MBTI. In socionics, I can understand and empathize with every IM element and every sociotype. In MBTI, most types just don't make any sense to me, upon first observation. Everything is beautifully and mathematically laid out and socionics has so many more interesting dichotomies. I just wish it was more popular in the Americas and on the internet.)
    Where did you get into MBTI? PersonalityCafe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Oliver Aaron View Post
    Where did you get into MBTI? PersonalityCafe?
    Nope. Why do you ask?
    Within prudence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RGB View Post
    Nope. Why do you ask?
    I need a PersonalityCafe mole...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Oliver Aaron View Post
    I need a PersonalityCafe mole...
    Why not just accept that they don't want you there and move on?
    Johari/Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Why not just accept that they don't want you there and move on?
    Because they do want me there. It's just Treebob's ruling against me that is keeping me out. When I'm there under an alias, my posts are appreciated.

    Also it's too much of an opportunity. The place is filled with MBTI newbies, ripe for conversion to Socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Oliver Aaron View Post
    Because they do want me there. It's just Treebob's ruling against me that is keeping me out. When I'm there under an alias, my posts are appreciated.

    Also it's too much of an opportunity. The place is filled with MBTI newbies, ripe for conversion to Socionics.
    You do have good content to offer. Regardless, you clearly aren't welcome, considering that every time you show up, you are banned. Yes, the admin doesn't like you. That's too bad, but it's how things are. Whether you were unjustly banned or not, repeatedly crawling back under the fence as you do really just looks obsessive and pathetic after a while.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    You do have good content to offer. Regardless, you clearly aren't welcome, considering that every time you show up, you are banned. Yes, the admin doesn't like you. That's too bad, but it's how things are. Whether you were unjustly banned or not, repeatedly crawling back under the fence as you do really just looks obsessive and pathetic after a while.
    But I am obsessive and pathetic... For instance, right now there's some poor guy who's clearly an ILE being told he's an ILI on his type me thread and I can't tell him otherwise. It's excruciating!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Oliver Aaron View Post
    But I am obsessive and pathetic... For instance, right now there's some poor guy who's clearly an ILE being told he's an ILI on his type me thread and I can't tell him otherwise. It's excruciating!
    Try a healthier fixation? There are people around here who could use help. Try focusing on them and letting others deal with PerC.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    Try a healthier fixation? There are people around here who could use help. Try focusing on them and letting others deal with PerC.
    The people on here are harder to help because they don't think they need help because there are fewer new people to the theory and more people with obscure interpretations who are confident that they know what they are talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Oliver Aaron View Post
    But I am obsessive and pathetic... For instance, right now there's some poor guy who's clearly an ILE being told he's an ILI on his type me thread and I can't tell him otherwise. It's excruciating!
    lol, he probably isn't either type

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