Correlation between sexual domination/submission and type

[Ezra]

Is there any?

[Radio]

Roughly, yes. I think so.

[Scapegrace]

Ezra. <3

[Absurd]

Depends what do you understand under domination and submission.

[Taknamay]

I think maybe there is a correlation, but I don't think it's always a matter of Type A is dominant, Type B is submissive. I think gender plays a role too, for example Type A is dominant when male, but submissive when female, perhaps because that is the social convention. Type B is submissive when male, dominant when female, perhaps because it is against social conventions. Obviously, I am speaking in absolutes right now, but it is never so.

[ashlesha]

poll: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-you-into-bdsm

[Eliza Thomason]

IMO, its Aggressors/Victims, how far they go with dominance/submission depends on other factors besides Socionics. When I was married, my ex and I watched the beginning of Fatal Attraction at the Theater. The aggressive love scenes grossed me out. Fortunately, my ex was ESE, Caregiver-type, and he was turned off too, and suggested we leave. I was glad. Only movie we ever walked out of. We went to the movie next store (which is actually another story). Anyway back at work, some of my colleagues at lunch were gushing about the love scenes in this movie. Seriously? That was a puzzle to me. I am sure that normal love for Aggressors/Victims does not go this far! This was the kinky version of that, Aggressor/Victim gone severe, in great drama. I think that perhaps it was aggressor or victim types that did not mind these scenes, like a caregiver/child-like type would..

In case you haven't seen this yet: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...otic-Attitudes

[Absurd]

It's not even straight sex to begin with, so I take it 'homos' voted positively. Anyway, I'm not sure there is some kind of link between such practices and sociotype.

What is OP asking here anyway? Does OP know what he is talking about?

I'm not really sure about that as well.

EDIT: Hmm, I see Eliza posted the erotic attitudes to support her claim. Time to "blame" Se/Ni for it - fine with me.

[Taknamay]

poll: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-you-into-bdsm

I remember this poll... I think it's really funny that caregivers were for the most part no, but infantiles were evenly split.

[Absurd]

I remember this poll... I think it's really funny that caregivers were for the most part no, but infantiles were evenly split.

Sexually it depends whether you're into beatings and waking up with a black eye in bed in the morning. Same with urinating and defecating on your partner. Humiliation.

It doesn't necessarily have to end up violently, focusing mostly on bondage and discipline. So I think what is allowed is between participants to agree on, that is, what turns them on.

And this is the reason, I'm having a bit of trouble(?) actually replying in this thread, for I don't know what is OP talking about at all.

Are you into any kind of stuff I wrote about, Taknamay?

I wonder whether you might be a masochist, if yes. All in all, it is not really sex as in straight sex.

[Taknamay]

I wonder whether you might be a masochist, if yes.

Of course I am not a masochist, and you are a sick pervert for even suggesting such a thing. Please never speak to me again.

[Kim]

When I was married, my ex and I watched the beginning of Fatal Attraction at the Theater. The aggressive love scenes grossed me out. Fortunately, my ex was ESE, Caregiver-type, and he was turned off too, and suggested we leave. I was glad.

Are you referring to the sex scene in the kitchen?

[Eliza Thomason]

Are you referring to the sex scene in the kitchen?

I am seeing this this two months later, its been that long since I have been online. Yes, I am pretty sure it was in the kitchen. Didn't see the whole movie though.

[Kim]

I am seeing this this two months later, its been that long since I have been online. Yes, I am pretty sure it was in the kitchen. Didn't see the whole movie though.

This one?

 

http://www.popscreen.com/v/71Mxr/Gle...tal-Attraction

[JWC3]

FTR Correlation doesn't mean causation.

[DirectorAbbie]

poll: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-you-into-bdsm

Not very relevant imo. I understood bdsm to refer to something further than just being dominant or submissive, and that poll didn't offer a choice between the two.

[Narc]

This one?

 

http://www.popscreen.com/v/71Mxr/Gle...tal-Attraction

Nothing wrong with that.

[Slacker]

Ezra was here?

[Eliza Thomason]

Or you both may just be really, really prudish, and your coworkers may have a bit of the clucking hen syndrome going on. It's a movie -- big deal.

No one would ever refer to my colleagues as clucking hens so you are wrong about that. And if in your eyes not being into violent sex makes one "prudish", then go ahead and call me prudish. I'll take that from you.

Question: What faith are you that pushes you towards your chosen social convention?

Chosen social convention?? I thought we are talking about sex. That's not a social activity for me. I see it as more of a private thing.

[InvisibleJim]

Prudes prudes everywhere.

Non-social sex equals no pillow or dirty talk?

Missionary position for purity ya'll YOLO.

[Kim]

Wow. That was the most violent thing I've ever seen in my life. I've never seen so much blood and hitting and stabbing and screaming. How horrible.

I would have liked to see more hair pulling myself.

[Kim]

No one would ever refer to my colleagues as clucking hens so you are wrong about that. And if in your eyes not being into violent sex makes one "prudish", then go ahead and call me prudish. I'll take that from you.


Chosen social convention?? I thought we are talking about sex. That's not a social activity for me. I see it as more of a private thing.

But you used sex to make a claim about types ("aggressor sex"). I don't think your attitude towards a sex scene is indicative of your type, but you made the claim that it is.

[ashlesha]

i was confused too, but i didn't watch the whole thing so i thought maybe there was something i missed.

[Eliza Thomason]

But you used sex to make a claim about types ("aggressor sex"). I don't think your attitude towards a sex scene is indicative of your type, but you made the claim that it is.

Not sure I am following you. "Used Sex"? I am not saying that domination/submission is what aggressor types do. I said it "depends on other factors besides Socionics." It seems to me that Aggressor/Victim types would be less uncomfortable with a drama about Domination/Submission. Just an opinion.

@nigh, I didn't click on the scene when it was posted in the thread so I can't comment on it. I trust my initial reaction to the movie and won't honor it with another viewing. But if the scene posted here was not aggressive, then it must not have been the scene I walked out on, anyway. That one was some early-on scene, notorious for its violence and/or aggression.

[Kim]

@Eliza Thomason, you make a point about your reaction to a particular scene and its connection to erotic attitudes and you can't quickly click and look at the first two seconds to confirm that this is the scene you are talking about? If you want to talk about your perception of aggressor sexual behavior, it would really help to know what you label aggressive.

And this is what you said earlier in the thread:

This was the kinky version of that, Aggressor/Victim gone severe, in great drama. I think that perhaps it was aggressor or victim types that did not mind these scenes, like a caregiver/child-like type would..

If we are talking about the same scene, we could have a poll about how forum members react to it based on type. Yay polls!

[mu4]

I feel BDSM and the community is very Delta oriented from the people I've known in that community.

One thing is that Delta does not experience the same as Alpha's. isn't just comfort but resilience and toughness, and one way Delta can deal with is testing their resilience and toughness or building it up. BDSM fulfills some of these sensory desires while at the same time providing a channel for ID experiences of Delta ST's(they have in the ID) and Super-Ego experiences of Delta NF's without the consequences of social criticism.

BDSM is a way to experience many power dynamics from the safety of one's bedroom without every having to deal with social mores or input. Also the practices and methodology of the BDSM fetishize the equipment, the tools and technology of the experience so to speak. It is a very practical fetish.
There is also the establishment of safety techniques such as "safe" words and various methods which keep the experience voluntary and in a way ethical and moral.

Now this is not to say other individual don't engage in behavior that is rough and can appear like BDSM, but imo it's not the same as the community. David Carradine dying hung in a closet in sexual asphyxiation situation is BDSM-like but imo doesn't fall under what people know today as the BDSM community.

The key to BDSM is that it's fetishistic and a fixation. Fixations are formed from repression not expression and formed often from super-ego repression.

Power dynamics within aggressor/victim sexual behavior isn't repressed, it is in a way normal, there is no need to ritualized it or make it "safe". Also often within BDSM, the Dom is the pleasure giver while the Sub is the pleasure recipient. Whatever pain is felt is simply spice for the experience. This is more a giver/recipient experience than aggressor/victim.

Also why did I focus on Delta and not Alpha, Alpha Si is pretty averse to pain or even the implication of pain. Alphas may fixate on power dynamics in a different way however as these are repressed traits for them as well.

[FDG]

That scene just looks like normal sex when you're a bit horny :S

[InvisibleJim]

Aren't Deltas legendary in BDSM circles with their 'the lifestyle' shenanigans?

[Eliza Thomason]

There is nothing wrong with being prudish. And if they're talking about the details of a movie at work, then they are clucking hens. Its an expression.

If you cannot see the relations about what I am asking of, then I am likely lost on you or you are being defensive.

Ok

[Park]

This thread is one fluster cluck.

[ashlesha]

why would anyone want to see Michael Douglas & Glenn Close fuck anyway?

lmfao

[Wynch]

I had to sign in just so I could post in this thread with a giant lmao

LMAO

Yous Guys.

[Eliza Thomason]

hkkr that all sounds very intelligent and I couldn't say if there is anything to it. Personally I have a very low pain tolerance. It just sounds messed up to me and any type can be messed up. Even great actors like Carradine. How horrifyingly pitiful that was. Nothing like having your death be an education in freakishness for millions, and your life be remembered for that.

[mu4]

hkkr that all sounds very intelligent and I couldn't say if there is anything to it. Personally I have a very low pain tolerance. It just sounds messed up to me and any type can be messed up. Even great actors like Carradine. How horrifyingly pitiful that was. Nothing like having your death be an education in freakishness for millions, and your life be remembered for that.

Well David Carradine's behavior isn't BDSM, but simply bondage, the S/M power dynamics are not relevant to his private self-bondage death.

In the BDSM dynamic, a individual does not need to enjoy pain to participate. It only requires one partner to enjoy that form of arousal.

Also imo, Fatal Attraction is not BDSM either.

IMO, BDSM is about repressed expression of normal power structures that exist in day to day life, such as boss to secretary(there is actually a movie about this starring Maggie Gyllenhaal called secretary). The relationship portrayed is loving supposedly natural and fulfilling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_(film)

This is a more representative film imo of what the BDSM community is attempting to achieve. The movie basically sanitizes a BDSM relationship and there is no resistance.

In aggressor victim relationships, there is a implicit resistance on the part of a victim, and that resistance is overpowered by the aggressor, in this way both achieve what they desire. In caregiver/infantile relations it's more about giving each other what each other desires even if it's pain or dominance.

There is also the fetishistic aspect of bondage which is tools oriented and equipment oriented. Also procedural rituals and scripts are crafted to expressed otherwise repressed emotions and create a power hierarchy. However often in these relations the power dynamic is reversed because the person receiving pain and submitting is the one receiving pleasure while the individual who is in the dominant position is simply working really hard at it.

I wouldn't confuse true psychopathic behavior with BDSM either, as these are worlds apart. BDSM is ultimately voluntary.

There are certain more psychopathic sadists out there but as a whole they would not fit in in society, their behavior don't fall under BDSM.

For example someone like the BTK killer, who I type LSI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader

[ashlesha]

the movie secretary is a really cute delta movie.

[Radio]

IME...

generally dominant (e.g. "do things i tell you to do/here, do this, this is good")
LSE, SLE, ESE, SLI, SEI

generally submissive (i.e. "tell me things i can do to please you/i have no idea what i'm doing"):
EII, [IEI], IEE

kind of dominant but not really (i.e. "you do all the work, i'll just sit here and groan at the right moments"):
ILI, LII, LSI, [ILE], LIE, [IEI]

kind of submissive but not really (i.e. "mmm yeah you like that? you like that don't you? how about this? how about now? what about this?")
EIE, SEE, [ILE]

haven't had much sexual experience with ESIs to know for sure.

[Galen]

generally submissive (i.e. "tell me things i can do to please you/i have no idea what i'm doing"):
EII, [IEI], IEE

I imagine this and only this

[ashlesha]

my esi ex was very dominant but in spite of the running joke(?) among some here that i'm a dominatrix i'm more on the submissive side. maybe gender roles, maybe personal idiosyncrasies.

that last category ("kind of submissive but not really") is annoying as FUCK but the guy i was with who was like that i type lse actually. idk i could see it as a caregiver thing too if you wanna do labels.

[Galen]

My ILI ex had absolutely no sex drive. Type-related? Probably sure.

[nigh]

Gender roles definitely play hugely. And LSEs may be dominant but not in the traditionally dominant way... IME they really are caregivers after all.