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Thread: Ti, Ni, and thinking what you think you think

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    Default Ti, Ni, and thinking what you think you think.

    I read a bit of Reinin's book. His views are quite refreshing, even if it seems a little like he's just trolling the hell out of what he perceives to be

    He ascribes traits to both - and -dominance that could be considered "internal consistency": has a worldview that must critically evaluate all incoming information, while has "no internal contradictions", having a harmonious inner world.

    Anyway, in the opinion of you, the reader of this thread, is having a consistent internal belief system a trait of , , or both?

    scribbles in the dark

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    ■■■■■■ Radio's Avatar
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    It's a Ti and Fi trait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    It's a Ti and Fi trait.
    Would you care to elaborate on that opinion?

    scribbles in the dark

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    what's the deal with ni and internal consistency? does he say much further on that? its usually people I'm more inclined to see as ti base who go on about how nI seeks internal consistency. but nI is a perceiving element and I would think it isn't concerned with having its ducks in a row like a judging element. I've yet to see an explanation for correlating ni and internal consistency that has been satisfactory to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    what's the deal with ni and internal consistency? does he say much further on that? its usually people I'm more inclined to see as ti base who go on about how nI seeks internal consistency. but nI is a perceiving element and I would think it isn't concerned with having its ducks in a row like a judging element. I've yet to see an explanation for correlating ni and internal consistency that has been satisfactory to me.
    I'd say it is, but its not about forcing stuff into frameworks(ducks in a row). More like chaos being the consistency, but i'm not sure what internal consistency means here.
    Last edited by davez; 08-08-2013 at 01:45 PM. Reason: grammar nazi

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    Not consistent beliefs for Ni. The lack of contradictions isn't in regard to any system of beliefs etc. it's something else. Some Ni person can explain what internal harmony is for them, because I don't know. Maybe it's why so many Ni-leads like meditation, heh. Ti otoh doesn't have to do with internal harmony, as harmony is more like complementary things creating a pleasing arrangement together and not clashing, and Ti isn't just about things not clashing, but instead tying things together into a working system, and eliminating the things that don't fit. Internal consistency is different from internal harmony. Hard to get the right words to explain.

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    Ni in my experience, makes it really hard to lie to myself. The mind tangents so frequently in a manner that ties seperate information together. Inevitably i come back to prior perceptions and re-evaluate them due to new information bringing me back.

    Granted, i may have an esotericness that makes few people capable of understanding me. But i think Ni being contradicition reductive makes sense.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    For me, (IEI with high-functioning autism), I absorb information through Ni, then use Ti to put everything and everyone in my environment into categories. Then, based on who and what is in which category, I use Fe to determine the correct behaviors and/or course of action.

    If I get new information that suggests someone or something is not currently in the proper category, I then try to use Se and Te to verify what my Ni is telling me. I will obsessively experiment and pore over memories in order to ensure that my Ni isn't steering me wrong.

    To wit: let's say a female friend starts pinging my Ni with "I want you to ask me out" vibes. I will review all my interactions with her, EVER, to see if there were any cues I missed. I will also cautiously, tentatively express romantic interest and see how she responds. Needless to say, my obsession with making sure she properly belongs in the "potential girlfriend" category rather than the "strictly platonic friend" category can come across as insecure and afraid of rejection. In reality, it's simply because my Fe won't let me ask out a girl in the "strictly platonic friend" category, no matter how much I want to. It isn't fear of rejection, it's a need to be sure I'm not violating my Fe.

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    I don't know. After going through basic training in the Army, I got to meet lots of different people. At one point, mostly out of boredom, I decided to type people. I had drill sergeants of all different types, although beta extroverts seem to excel among the NCOs. There was someone in my bay that I typed INTp; he had to do a speech at one point and he was told he was too monotone. He was very knowledgeable about a lot of things and was not aggressive at all. I think I sort get why Ni are thought to be dreamy. He had a soft dreamy quality to him and some people interpreted that as gay.

    Based on him, Ni seemed to make him open to many different viewpoints, very generally, while following the one's that made the most sense.

    My LSI drill sergeant was very open to hearing different ways to do things, but he didn't like it if people tried to stick to one thing and not collaborate. He also didn't seem very interested in treating people with respect and getting us to treat each other with respect like an Fi type might prefer. He just wanted us to do what was expected of us, even if that meant dehumanizing us.

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    You LSI drill sergeant doesn't sound very LSI at all.

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    I suppose it depends on what you mean by a "constant internal belief system". Specifically what would a beta Ni belief system be compared to a gamma one? What page is this on? I don't have a copy of this book but I think I can get one fairly quickly and look at what you're referring to.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfckr View Post
    I don't think that's an Fi thang.
    Yeah, maybe. I kind of explained that wrong though. He seemed to believe in treating us as human beings and thinking we'd reciprocate by doing what we were supposed to do. The other drill sergeants would mess with us because they could and really didn't give a shit. He inspected my locker when they were supposed to look for contraband and throw your shit around and he didn't fuck with it because I had everything the way they wanted it; if it was any of the other Drill Sergeants doing it, they would have thrown my shit around. He was the only one that actually encouraged us and seemed to genuinely want to feel good about us.

    That's kind of why I liked him. But he had a huge temper. When someone stole money from the platoon he was in charge of, we could hear him screaming at them during one of the road marches. He was mad that they broke the trust they were supposed to have with one another. It was shit like that that made him mad. He was very unique compared to the other drill sergeants. I didn't think people like that were in the military. He would sometimes talk about how he could read people and know what kind of background people had by how they acted when they got to basic. Another time he would try to imagine some of us in the future in our military careers, while the other drill sergeants wanted us to feel like we were worthless. He was the SHARP (Sexual Harassment and Assault Prevention Program) rep and would get really mad (blow up) when people made light of the program. He was very principled in a humanistic manner.

    But I know there's different ideas about Fi, but I honestly don't know what other type he could be. But I also don't put that much stock into intertype relations anymore. It seemed right though. I related to him a lot anyway and he seemed a lot better with intuition than I am. But if he's Ti or something, then I guess I can be Ti-dom.

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    Internal consistency would be more strictly Ti, but I think where Ni comes in is self-system awareness - you have to have a certain amount of introspective power to know the internal playing field. See e.g. SLEs and how frequently they have a complete disregard for internal consistency until it's drawn to their attention, despite having strong valued Ti.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agee The Great View Post
    Nobody here...besides me, seems to know what SLE is except for maybe Maritsa.

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    Ti is like trolling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenus Paradox View Post
    For me, (IEI with high-functioning autism), I absorb information through Ni, then use Ti to put everything and everyone in my environment into categories. Then, based on who and what is in which category, I use Fe to determine the correct behaviors and/or course of action.

    If I get new information that suggests someone or something is not currently in the proper category, I then try to use Se and Te to verify what my Ni is telling me. I will obsessively experiment and pore over memories in order to ensure that my Ni isn't steering me wrong.

    To wit: let's say a female friend starts pinging my Ni with "I want you to ask me out" vibes. I will review all my interactions with her, EVER, to see if there were any cues I missed. I will also cautiously, tentatively express romantic interest and see how she responds. Needless to say, my obsession with making sure she properly belongs in the "potential girlfriend" category rather than the "strictly platonic friend" category can come across as insecure and afraid of rejection. In reality, it's simply because my Fe won't let me ask out a girl in the "strictly platonic friend" category, no matter how much I want to. It isn't fear of rejection, it's a need to be sure I'm not violating my Fe.
    Um...I don't really think you're doing Ni as a primary. If she's asking for a relational contact with interest then that's Fi. Then you're reviewing events which is more Te/Fe. Fe is reading external cues to help give you a reading of the person's disposition, emotions...it has nothing to do with relations; Fi is ethics of Relations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Not consistent beliefs for Ni. The lack of contradictions isn't in regard to any system of beliefs etc. it's something else. Some Ni person can explain what internal harmony is for them, because I don't know. Maybe it's why so many Ni-leads like meditation, heh. Ti otoh doesn't have to do with internal harmony, as harmony is more like complementary things creating a pleasing arrangement together and not clashing, and Ti isn't just about things not clashing, but instead tying things together into a working system, and eliminating the things that don't fit. Internal consistency is different from internal harmony. Hard to get the right words to explain.
    Ni isn't really concerned with consistency. On the contrary, I think Ni is very accepting of contradiction, especially NiFe tends to "synthesize dichotomies" into some tangled whole. It may have a grain of truth when it comes to judging people on the long run (I'm not exactly an adept of good vs bad or madona vs whore approaches). But in assessing situations in real time or working with systems it looks like it deals with slippery, ambiguous amalgams to me.

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    - Ni is very accepting of contradiction
    - Ni isnt really concerned with consistency

    It's funny, because i don't see how those two are mutually exclusive. Maybe it's a contradiction, but to me i think Ni is very concerned with consistency as well as accepting of contradicting viewpoints.

    Its kind of Ironic in that i very much disagree with what you said and yet also seem to exemplify a large portion of your point. Hopefully, my own point as well.

    But yeah, Ni - very capable of catching themselves being hypocritical.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Ni's objective is to create and maintain balance, and harmony. Internal consistency is a side effect of Ni's attempt to maintain the equilibrium. Because is intuitive Pi function it is very aware of internal inconsistencies and is capable of accepting them as long as they don't interfere with the balance and harmony but it almost always does so has be rectified.
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