ENFps and chronic mood swings

[SyrupDeGem]

Is this what it is to be IEE, are all IEE creatures prone to hide in the darkness and bounce out when it's light and glittery?

Is there any way to control these mood swings? How are others supposed to cope with them if not?


So also Thyroid. I do think thyroid disorders are common in (well lots of people) but especially in IEE and often with the swinging Hyper-hypo-hyper which surprise surprise leads to mood swings. Often peope with hypo-thyroid have depression because of the thyroid.

I was diagnosed with thyroiditus (accute hyperthyroid) which more recently swung the other way (hypo) and now i think it may be going hyper again. Often people with thyroid issues are diagnosed with bipolar disorder mistakenly. Also a common occurance is comorbid bipolar and thyroid problem.

So what is what? all IEE's like this?

[mu4]

Aushra associated irrationality with cyclothymia, this is related to bi-polarity but not as severe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclothymia

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...gustinaviciute

Her name for irrationality/rationality in this article is

Cyclothymia(irrational)/Schizothymia(rationality)

[ashlesha]

my eii best friend takes medication for cyclothymia. but it took me a long time to rule out iee when typing her.

[Iris]

Is this what it is to be IEE, are all IEE creatures prone to hide in the darkness and bounce out when it's light and glittery?

Is there any way to control these mood swings? How are others supposed to cope with them if not?

I have several friends who are bipolar two of whom suggested i am also, i certainly identify with the rapid cycling (bipolar 2) but is this just an ENFp trait?

I used to see a therapist who suggested i was bipolar, i was referred for assessment where i was told i may be bipolarbut they diagnosed me with episodic major depression because they had not personally (3 sessions of twenty minutes) witnessed mania. The shrink said it was highly possible but not conclusive.

So also Thyroid. I do think thyroid disorders are common in (well lots of people) but especially in IEE and often with the swinging Hyper-hypo-hyper which surprise surprise leads to mood swings. Often peope with hypo-thyroid have depression because of the thyroid.

I was diagnosed with hyperthyroiditus (accute hyperthyroid) which more recently swung the other way (hypo) and now i think it may be going hyper again. Often people with thyroid issues are diagnosed with bipolar disorder mistakenly. Also a common occurance is comorbid bipolar and thyroid problem.

So what is what, am i crazy and are all IEE's like this!!??!!


P.s this is a very personal thread for me so be gentle, i still may delete it anyway... shall see how my mood affects me!

There is an interesting article by Gulenko about stress and types that is pretty short http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...stance-Gulenko . I'll paste the part that relates to IEEs. You might want to read it in the context of the rest of the article.

Result Irrational types: SLE(ESTp) IEI(INFp) SLI(INTp) IEE(ENFp) - resistant to stress

These types are elastic, springy. They are the most stress-resistant types which show resilience against immediate stress loads. Their advantage is that they perform well in extreme situations. They are mobilized by unexpected changes in situations – this gives them a new drive. Ability to work effectively in stressful environments adds a new trait to their temperament – elasticity. SLE and IEI maneuver and evade sudden blows. SLI and IEE wait the storm out in a safe location.

These types have anchors in space – they develop habits to do specific actions at certain locations. For SLEs this is often their home, their territory. For SLIs this is their workplace where he feels relaxed and unrestrained.

[applejacks]

Is this what it is to be IEE, are all IEE creatures prone to hide in the darkness and bounce out when it's light and glittery?

Is there any way to control these mood swings? How are others supposed to cope with them if not?

Hi Gem!


What you're talking about here is completely normal for an IEE, especially for me.

I find the motivation for this behavior is self-preservation. We sub-consciously want to put on a show for others, showing our bright & happy side, which allows others to open up and connect with us easily. When we're facing difficulties, we find it hard to be authentic and genuine with others while secretly battling our internal pain. So we seek solitude and try to deal with it on our own.

More often than not though, I find that being around people is what alleviates some of my suffering, yet it's not what we seek.

As for how to control this- I think it may vary on the person. When my needs are not being met, I experience what you've outlined. My unhappiest days were when I've been too far isolated from people, not adding value to myself or others on a daily basis in some way, or experiencing low self-esteem due to weight gain or something on those lines.

You might ask yourself about your happier, more stable phases of life. What might be missing from your life now that contributes to mood swings?

A personal example: I've been extremely volatile the past 7 months, and came to the conclusion that I was placing too much dependence on someone else to create / contribute to my happiness. This may or may not be your case, but sometimes IEEs just need a reminder to address our needs with an air of confidence, and to remember that it's not selfish if it helps us, because then we can in turn help others in the future.

As for others coping... are they receptive to you? Do they provide full attention and make an effort to understand you? If not, that may only contribute to the problem. I cannot cope or expect others to cope with me if they do not first give me their attention and allow me to explain.


I'm not well versed in thyroid issues, but I do know that this would affect me even more so emotionally than it would physically, as this is our primary metabolism regulator. I tend to be prone to self-esteem issues (young ugly duckling syndrome perhaps?), and if something is unstable physically with me, then my self-esteem suffers, and it bleeds into other aspects of my life (especially my social life).


I hope this is helpful! Sorry if I rambled, but I wanted you to know that you're completely normal. I've experienced everything you've talked about in various stages of my life.

[Scapegrace]

God help us. Why are we attributing a medical diagnosis to a typology theory developed by Lithuanian economist?

Wake up. You're just not eating right for your blood type. *Snort*

[Creepy-male]

I was talking to a friend of mine a few days ago and while he doesn't know socionics he knows Kiersey a little bit.

He associated this sort of thing to "Artisans" or Sensing Perceiving. He said, "The thing about artisans or being an artisan is that the highs are very high and the lows are very low". He was mainly talking about Artisans in two sense, the Kiersey formalized intellectual sense and the sense of somewhat who practices an art or craft. He uses them pretty interchangably. Which makes sense because one who is absorbed in an art or craft would be very focus on irrationality or perceiving and very focused on the sensory aspects of that craft.

For example a painter would be focused on sensing the visual aspects of stuff and go with flow (irrationality) when creating his/her painting.

This seemed to make sense to me. Also Kiersey tends to associated artisans with a sort of dionysus "live large" personality. They most likely to gamble either literally or live there live with risks and chances, focusing more on experience and spontaneity.

All these things point to MOOD SWINGS. This would be opposed to something like a sensing judging Guardian who seeks predictability, dependability, stability, and order or something of the like.

Carrying this over into socionics it fits well with the rational/irrational dichotomy and what hkkmr said.

Further its complex though because the enneagram relates mood swings to e4, but this is a slightly different meaning. This is more associated to the nature of the way an e4 feels and less associated to spontaneity. An irrational, or artisan, e4 I'd imagine would have all sort of mood swings.

Further regardless of any personality you have to look at biology: men will undergo certain mood swings probably related to testosterone and their sex drives -- aggression, calmness, interest, uninterest but usually on a pretty quick cycle. Women by contrast have many hormone and complex cycles that span a longer time for a variety of reasons. These affect the mood.

Also physically how you eat and sleep effect things as well -- how much, when, and for how long and what cycle.

So there are many aspects.

Temperament (irrationality/rationality), Core Issues and Motives (e-type), Biochemistry, and Daily Routine.

[HandiAce]

Are there certain thoughts or feelings that come to mind which could cause your mood to change suddenly, @Geminatronix?

[SyrupDeGem]

Are there certain thoughts or feelings that come to mind which could cause your mood to change suddenly, @Geminatronix?

Certainly, but they are vast as the vastest interstellar canyons and almost as varied.. I have tried to nail patterns and just when i think i have found one something happens to alter that perception. I have wondered if it is a psychological state (e.g bipolar2), PMS/PMT, certain specific periods of grief/trauma, thyroid function, all sorts...i have been convinced of all the aforementioned at some point. I understand that you are asking about specific thought pattern that leads to the mood changes and i suppose there will be a link with that too but i can't nail specifics or even general trends... I have periods when i am more angry, more awake (manic?, like recently, been sleeping 3-4 hours a night and super energy levels), more sleepy, more sad, mpre happy/vibrant, more reclusive, more social.... etc etc.... they seem to be amplified though and imbalanced.... I always though of myself as an all or nothing girl and i suppose this seeps through into moods too... all angry or all happy... etc The lack of control upsets me.

[Park]

I experience them, too. What I've found to be characteristic about mine as opposed to what I notice in some other people is that despite all the internal turmoils and forces fighting against each other, I try my best and most often succeed in staying consistent and objective in my relations with the external world. I sort of feel like maintaining a stable environment around me is essential to my well being.

[applejacks]

@Geminatronix - I was reading the IEE profile by Gulenko this morning, and it made me think of you. We are, unfortunately, so mood-dependent. It's truly our achilles hill, because it just seems we lack that extra something to make ourselves be productive despite our mood.

"His internal state and mood are dependent upon the nature of work that he has to do. If it's not interesting or seems useless, then his mood drops. For this reason, IEE is not prone to performing regular upkeep and maintenance of his living quarters. He has weak sense of pragmatism and is not economical. If he becomes involved in organizing something, he does it out of his creative interest, for the soul, for the idea, and not for profit. The best reward for his labor is admiration, excitement and conveyance of positive emotions. "

"Problem Areas: ... May become too detached and exalted, too dependent on his moods... Susceptible to changes of mood (impulsive in productivity)."

So.. I just wanted to empathize. Mood swings for us are much more difficult to deal with than for others since our quality of life is so dependent upon our mood.

Are you getting enough regular socialization? Nothing seems to cheer us up quite like a verbal pat on the back.

Just food for thought. Hope this gets better for you!




(Link: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ile-by-Gulenko )

[Park]

Are you getting enough regular socialization? Nothing seems to cheer us up quite like a verbal pat on the back.

I am going to have to disagree that this is characteristic of IEEs. This kind of overt/shallow focus on emotions + the way you said you wished your husband was better company for going out and socializing - that sort of "nagging" is very typical of EXE-XLI dynamics - and is why I still experience your presence/energy as that of an Fe base.

[InvisibleJim]

Gem if you find your swing is misbehaving then perhaps you should try modifying either how the swing is used or the construction of the swing.

Have you tried upgrading your swing to something more complimentary, for example installing a green swing seat?

[SyrupDeGem]

I am going to have to disagree that this is characteristic of IEEs. This kind of overt/shallow focus on emotions + the way you said you wished your husband was better company for going out and socializing - that sort of "nagging" is very typical of EXE-XLI dynamics - and is why I still experience your presence/energy as that of an Fe base.

Actually i think she has a good point. I definately work well with positive affirmations, and especially from others...as long as i believe they are genuine of course... if i think they are lip service it will have a negative effect on me... i can become quite annoyed.

@applejacks I do believe i am slave to my moods and maybe i do need real life socialisation more and i definately want to work with a real person rather that at home behind my laptop feeling unstimulated. I did go out for a couple of hours last week. But yes i have been detaching/isolating a bit. But i think i have done that to protect people from an angry phase... so i just have these irregular mood cycles and it feels unhealthy. Maybe i focus too much on protecting others.

@InvisibleJim ah yes, i have tried many seats of many colours but i fear it may be the swing itself that is defective, replacing that would be incredibly dangerous. Maybe i need a new playground!

[applejacks]

Actually i think she has a good point. I definately work well with positive affirmations, and especially from others...as long as i believe they are genuine of course... if i think they are lip service it will have a negative effect on me... i can become quite annoyed.

@applejacks I do believe i am slave to my moods and maybe i do need real life socialisation more and i definately want to work with a real person rather that at home behind my laptop feeling unstimulated. I did go out for a couple of hours last week. But yes i have been detaching/isolating a bit. But i think i have done that to protect people from an angry phase... so i just have these irregular mood cycles and it feels unhealthy. Maybe i focus too much on protecting others.

@InvisibleJim ah yes, i have tried many seats of many colours but i fear it may be the swing itself that is defective, replacing that would be incredibly dangerous. Maybe i need a new playground!

I highly, HIGHLY recommend getting out for some real life socialization. I worked from home without human contact for a year, and it drove me into crazy isolation. Hiding inside the house may feel like the comfortable thing to do, but I guarantee... if you get out and start using that charm and wit to make people laugh, you'll feel infinitely better! I've only spent a few minutes hanging with you, and you had me giggling!

Of course, this may not be the only issue as you suggested. There may be other thyroid related things going on, but I really think you'll feel better if you'e socializing, hanging with people. I stew too much when I'm alone for too long (which becomes a reason to stay inside, to "protect" others from our mood... but the mood's initial cause, at least for me, WAS the fact that I was isolated too long).


Oh and @Park - I certainly hope I didn't come across as nagging / bitching. If anything, I try to state observations in a way that will be received well by you all reading, but even still, I wouldn't change my husband for anything in the world. I genuinely love him as he is. But if you want to see me as Fe leading, that's cool I still identify and see myself as IEE.

[Absurd]

Poor IEE.

[Park]

Actually i think she has a good point. I definately work well with positive affirmations, and especially from others...as long as i believe they are genuine of course... if i think they are lip service it will have a negative effect on me... i can become quite annoyed.

Well, the way she said it sounded like GETTING THEM was more important than whether they're genuine, or if they are actually coming from someone she likes and trusts.

Fi valuers are very selective about which sources of information (i.e., people) they trust, so whether positive or negative, personal comments coming from 'just anyone' would have little to no effect on them most of the time. There was a thread started by Expat some time ago about the way different types assess information, and the discussion ended up rendering Fi valuers as unfairly biased and close-minded to the point of appearing prejudiced to some Fe quadra types. For me, the most basic example of this is the way I read forums, scanning through threads to read posts of people I like and who's information I value and trust, while almost completely ignoring posters I despise or dislike for whatever reason. Those are the same people whose comments/opinions/whatever I'd never take to heart or prescribe any meaning to. Same goes for social situations where I'm faced with individuals I barely know, and for those I DO know, I filter information based on my experience and subjective feelings towards them.

Let me put it this way -- If socializing for the sake of exchanging emotions, letting off steam, and influencing others with your emotions is more important to you than developing and maintaining bonds with people on the basis of emotional proximity, trust and loyalty, my bet is that you're not IEE. And I might be getting the wrong vibes here, but my impression is that applejacks tends to emphasize the former.

[Park]

Oh and @Park - I certainly hope I didn't come across as nagging / bitching.

No, but I get the impression that you would IRL.

Do you try to 'make' your husband comply to your needs for socializing by asking him to go out with you, meet other people, etc.? Do you 'nag' him to do things or finish things up more quickly and at different points in time than he would naturally do? If yes, those would be good indications of an EXE-XLI supervision.

If anything, I try to state observations in a way that will be received well by you all reading, but even still, I wouldn't change my husband for anything in the world. I genuinely love him as he is. But if you want to see me as Fe leading, that's cool

I don't 'want' to see you as anything. I'm just sharing my observations and being honest about it.

I still identify and see myself as IEE.

I know. And I know you really liked the Beskova IEE description. Have you read the SLI one? Aside from a few minor objections, it's spot on for me. Does it sound like your husband?

[applejacks]

No, but I get the impression that you would IRL.

Do you try to 'make' your husband comply to your needs for socializing by asking him to go out with you, meet other people, etc.? Do you 'nag' him to do things or finish things up more quickly and at different points in time than he would naturally do? If yes, those would be good indications of an EXE-XLI supervision.



I don't 'want' to see you as anything. I'm just sharing my observations and being honest about it.



I know. And I know you really liked the Beskova IEE description. Have you read the SLI one? Aside from a few minor objections, it's spot on for me. Does it sound like your husband?

I don't want to derail from Gem, but I'll respond in a pm

Also, you're right- compliments from someone of value is much more important than a pat on the back from a stranger. But I figured that was implied.

[Kim]

Should I just split the thread?

[Park]

Should I just split the thread?

[Kim]

What?

[Park]

[Kim]

(This is supposed to look like I am flame-throwing Fe)

[Park]

[Park]

@Geminatronix, I personally don't mind derails in my threads unless they contain too much spaMaritsa or trollAbsurdities. You might feel different, however. So take my preemptive apologies and apply them to your new swing.

@applejacks, I am sorry if anything I said was too personal or inappropriate. I usually have no idea how I come across. Now this becomes tricky when I start to actually care about how I come across but have no talent for telling.

@Kim, you're such a wet blanket. Just split the cash and let's go to a sunny place.

[applejacks]

@Park - it's all good. I'll let it.... SLIde.

Oooooooo SNAP.

[Eliza Thomason]

@Park, I know you wrote this to Applejacks but I want to comment anyway. I think its great you are trying to figure out for sure if that's her type because understanding type is really helpful.

I do think that she is IEE; I recognize my Identical in her in so many things she has said. She is more social seeking than I am, but it could be because she is younger, plus, importantly she is isolated in a new community. I can think of such times when I was more social-seeking than I am now. She might be Fi subtype instead of Ne subtype, too.

Also working in your house alone for a year would make any E crave company, even the more introverted IEE. I have been isolated in recent weeks trying to take care of many things, but I think its too much isolation, I find myself going a little stir crazy. Plus I have not seen my SLI since Easter. Its just too much.

No, but I get the impression that you would IRL.

Do you try to 'make' your husband comply to your needs for socializing by asking him to go out with you, meet other people, etc.? Do you 'nag' him to do things or finish things up more quickly and at different points in time than he would naturally do? If yes, those would be good indications of an EXE-XLI supervision.

This behavior would drive my SLI crazy and I would never do this to him. Its so funny that you think Applejacks would do this but I think she wouldn't.

I say its funny because you remind me of my SLI, and of a time a ways back when i wrote him, just being chatty about myself and my day, something about healthy food and asked him a related Q he didn't answer, so I asked again thinking he missed it, since he always answered all my Qs, and either then or after a third ask he finally wrote a succinct little tirade about how he absolutely did NOT want anyone telling him what to eat! How his sister does that, etc. I was so surprised at this passionate response and rushed to assure him that's not why I asked and I would never think of telling him what to eat or not eat; I had too much respect for personal freedom, etc...

But I smiled inwardly, because I was in love with him, and waiting for him to return the sentiment, since I believed he felt the same even though he wasn't saying, and this incident actually gave me encouragement, because it seemed he was weighing in his own mind a future with me, and that's why he freaked out and got so defensive imagining a life with me being like his (not IEE) sister.

Anyway, I bet @applejacks says she doesn't do this, either. We IEEs are freedom loving and totally respect other's freedoms.

Right now my SLI is in the middle of a home remodel we both have a very serious vested interest in and he tells me all the time his progress but I would never think to question the order of the things he does or to hurry him up in anyway. I ask questions all the time like, "What will you work on next when your are done with this?" or, "How long does that take, about?" concerning the next phase. And he knows I just want a ballpark estimate, out of curiosity, and that I have no intention of holding him to anything.

I wish I did not have to ask him on the phone, but I can't be with him now. But when we are together, and married, my role when he does these big projects will be to bring him cool drinks and make meals and organize his tools and pick up the mess that gets left around his perfect work so that it will be nicer to go back to his work, with that intensive concentration he gives it. ...And interrupt him from time to time by arousing him with flirtatious touch when I want to feel connected.

I think its because we know we need to be happy and feel harmonious in our environment in order to be productive. So if we want our partner to be more productive, we know nagging is totally counter-productive. Acceptance, support, a little loving -- that's productive. We know that's what we need, so we give that.

[Kim]

@Kim, you're such a wet blanket. Just split the cash and let's go to a sunny place.

@Geminatronix

I think my lows are connected to those periods during which I don't have any motivation or inspiration and those during which I don't have much social interaction. Ideally I have someone who drags me out of it by doing things with me (my SLI ex was very good with that) and getting me out of the house (often kicking and screaming).

Sometimes inspiration hits somehow and that helps.

[applejacks]

@Eliza Thomason - You get me so well


all work, no play (no friends), make applejack a dull girl.
all work, no play (no friends), make applejack a dull girl.
all work, no play (no friends), make applejack a dull girl.
all work, no play (no friends), make applejack a dull girl.
all work, no play (no friends), make applejack a dull girl.
all work, no play (no friends), make applejack a dull girl.
all work, no play (no friends), make applejack a dull girl.


/endcreepy

[Park]

@Eliza Thomason - You get me so wet

Oh, wow.

[Park]

[LOL]ayb6CFQQ5Ko[/LOL]

[noid]

IEE : check borderline personality disorder

[noid]

[LOL]ayb6CFQQ5Ko[/LOL]

This is not art, this is not craft, this is caricature