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Thread: Ti and Te

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    Default Ti and Te

    Logic of events

    Logic of cause and effect

    These are the new names I propose. I think they make the most sense. I use them. Im gonna explain why. Consider these three points

    -Thinking is the capacity to know what a thing is.

    -An extraverted function is concerned with the object in and of itself; and an introverted function is concerned with whats behind the object. The introvert, says Jung is in touch with his unconscious. Introversion is concerned with the feilds(what is between and behind the object, or more precisely, what their unconscious projects into the object). So I say the introvert is concerned with his own personal vision of the external world. His own vision of the object. The extravert is more concerned with the object itself.


    -Keeping both of these things in mind we can say that sees the facts, actions, algorithms, procedures, processes and events in and of themselves. Sees the relationships between these things. Is about seeing whats behind the object, the things that exist behind and between, in other words the cause and effect relation between phenomena, and/or the things that connect phenomena. So I say draws conclusions about the existence of the invisible things that connect phenomena, while draws conclusions about the existence of the phenomena themselves.


    These two names , and logic of events for , logic of cause and effect for are the names I use because I feel they give me a good understanding of how one differs from another. These are the new names I propose. You can choose to accept them. Or you can choose to think they dont work for you.

    So what do you think? Any objections, or does it work for you?

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    I think those are good names. The weird thing about our situation is that we are translating these socionics descriptions through machines and looking at websites of multilingual people who them themselves have different names for different functions/aspects in the model A. I suppose we're in it for ourselves to standardize the English descriptions.

    I guess right now:
    is logic of business
    and is logic of correlation

    I suppose the in Jungian sense it's logic with the being objective thinking(logic) and being subjective thinking(logic).
    I think your names are better than how they are translated right now.

    But my question is should we take the initiative and try to standardize the names for Socionics English application or just for this site? I've registered socionicsforamericas.org for this purpose but haven't done anything but point it to the current site.

    What about having socionicsforamericas.org to be used to come to a conclusion of standardization of nomenclature and descriptions of types, aspects, relations, and functions, in a WIKI sort of sense? With discussions (that may get heated) over opposing opinions here on the forums and the end result being voted in, and all covered under a creative commons license?
    What do you think about that?

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    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    I think that if you feel that these are good names then put them on this site. Just wait till a few of the regulars like Pedro and Cone give their opinion. I think they will like the names, and I think you should put them up on this site but I think it would be right just to wait and see if they dont have any really logical objections(which were somewhow too blind to see). Ok how's this: You put change names on this site, then you can awlays change them back if faced with the improbable circumstance that noone likes the names.

    I think if these names were standardized by socionicsforamericas.org that would be cool. But I dont think we should be as hasty as with this site, though. I think some kind of debate would be a good idea before getting these names standardized. Some democratic vote would probably be good too. Then again, Im not sure a standardized version of the names is the most favorbale thing, considering socionists themselves use differeng names. Or is a standerized version of the names already what we have in English, with "business logic" and "logic of correlation"?

    So I think you should change the names on this site. As far as the standardized version of the names is concerned I think you should try and see how that works by dialoging with other English-speaking socionists.

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    am I stupid or something?

    quote from Dmitri Lytov

    Introverted logic is also called Systematic Logic, or Structural Logic

    Extroverted logic is also called Practical Logic
    http://soc.wavatars.com/index.php/Ps...ical_functions

    or his english is not good? can someone reply I'm posting this for third time.

    What about having socionicsforamericas.org to be used to come to a conclusion of standardization of nomenclature and descriptions of types, aspects, relations, and functions, in a WIKI sort of sense?
    I have already started something like this at http://soc.wavatars.com but I get no support good luck.
    I think those names are even worse than the ones we have on this site (actually logic of correlation is not so bad). I think can see structures as far as Im aware having in my ego block. can see what needs to be done practically but I dont feel that sums up the base information flow of . Sorry I know you hate this, . I know its a threat to your hidden agenda. But I really feel these names are better. This is my honest opinon. The names we have are translated directly from Russian and subtle nuances are always lost in translations. Im sure Dmitri Lytov is more of an expert on socionics than I am, and Im not questioning his expertise, I just feel that these names have lost something in the translation.

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    The problem of changing things on this site is the majority of the stuff 97% is not written by me, 80% of it is written by other people and used with their permission, and 20% of it is used without permission but with copyright notation of original author if I can find it.

    The problem with changing things like this is...If I change the text I'm using, I have made a change to the copyrighted text of someone else, and cannot use it without getting permission again, which most people won't do. So if I wanted to change the description of introverted feeling for example, I'd have to write the whole thing from scratch.
    What I was thinking was getting everyone in one direction where we all keep the copyright for our work yet put it's use under a creative commons license, like a wiki system. Like is trying to do..it doesn't matter where the wiki is(the wikipedia, 's site, or elsewhere), as long as we contribute and keep it under a creative commons license. And avoid copyright disputes.

    Socionics in English is almost new territory, we can stick a flag in the ground with an agreed upon descriptions and nomenclature. That's what I meant.

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    They're good names/definitions, can be useful, but let's make sure not to go overboard in using them, for the simple fact that we're all amateurs.

  8. #8
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    "Logic of Cause and Effect"

    That sounds more like Te to me. Te is more concerned with mathematical, strict, true/false type of logic, Ti is more an almost unconcious "weighing of the preponderance of evidence." Te: mathematician. Ti: lawyer. I'm giggling at the hubris of some of the ppl on this board.

    "Logic of Events"

    WTF is that? What about illogical events? Maybe they should be grouped under, what Ni?

    Please. You folks are amateurs. There are ppl who have made this their careers.

  9. #9
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    "Logic of Cause and Effect"

    That sounds more like Te to me. Te is more concerned with mathematical, strict, true/false type of logic, Ti is more an almost unconcious "weighing of the preponderance of evidence." Te: mathematician. Ti: lawyer. I'm giggling at the hubris of some of the ppl on this board.

    "Logic of Events"

    WTF is that? What about illogical events? Maybe they should be grouped under, what Ni?

    Please. You folks are amateurs. There are ppl who have made this their careers.

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    I couldn't agree more. I think that we should make our purpose to piece the system together, rather than to try and reinvent it to fit our ingnorance.

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    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    How about "existential logic" for Te? Truth or falsehood, something exists or it doesn't.

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    guest how about you register before you have a say in this?
    Guest, you do realize that two phenomena cannot be seen as cause and effect unless there is relationship established between the two dont you? Sure NTs in the gamma quadra can see the cause and effect, but its the that makes the abstract associations, not . sees the phenomena themselves, like you said, it simply judges whether something in and of itself exists or doesnt. I dont know why Im arguing with you, mr "you guys are amateurs and im too much of a pussy to even log in but ill give you lessons about whos right anyways." I guess its cuz waddlesworth thinks you have some say in this. I think your just a troll whos been trolling on all the threads by saying things people find irritating.

    Waddles, whos trying to reinvent the system? Tell me how Im trying to reinvent the system. Jung clearly defnined the ways in which extraversion and intravarsion differed, all Im doing is finding English words which better suit his description than "busniness logic" which says something about the aptitude of the person with but doesnt say anything about the base information flow of the function. The fact that Im an amateur means absolutely nothing as far as whether Im right or wrong and you know it.

    , I see your point about people being confused but noone is gonna publish three different names for one function in one book.

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    Cheerio, I'm not trying to argue with you. I said that your descriptions were good, but I also think its best to keep away from that sort of thing. By reinvent I'm referring to everyone coming up with their own names for things and eventually leaving us with a bunch of people arguing over what they think functions should be called. Now I'm not saying that this is your intention, but I can see how it can lead people down the wrong path.

    Again, what you're saying is interesting, but I also think that it is reaching just a little too far right now.

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    Cheerio,

    The terms that we'll "invent", use and spread
    The terms which the russian socionists already use
    The terms that will be used in the book (probably the author will keep the socionists's terms)
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    Maybe youre right. :wink: I said in the original thread that these definitions worked for me, and I didnt pretend they would work for anyone other than me. I said you can choose to accept or reject them. :wink:

    Admin suggested that we make up our own database of socionics information in English with our own copyright. I think thats a good idea, but I dont think that this database has to revolve around this thread or anything like that. I think we can do something like that. Jimmy you should tell me more about this right now Im not sure. Are suggesting we make up our own Wiki page for socionics? Or make additions to the one that already exists, like have our own article printed with our own copyright and have the article added to their socionics page?

    wrote:

    Cheerio,

    The terms that we'll "invent", use and spread
    The terms which the russian socionists already use
    The terms that will be used in the book (probably the author will keep the socionists's terms)


    Probably. I just use these terms cuz they worked for me. You dont have to use them if they dont work for you.

    PS: Sometimes I come off as blunt and inconsiderate when putting forth my perpective. Ill try and keep that under control . Weak .

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    I'm with waddles. There are bunch of socionists who had a lot of thinking and talking to do to make a deal with those names, so they are probably the best to have. So firstly we should find out how those names were made and why they are best names and then, after understanding this, we should start thinking of how usefull they are.
    Semiotical process

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