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Thread: LSIs-ISTjs not fitting stereotypes

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    Default LSIs-ISTjs not fitting stereotypes

    LSIs - can you name some ways that you don't fit the stereotypical lsi description?
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    I don't have a mustache. Of course, I am female, so there's that.

    There isn't just one description of LSIs, there are many, so . . . which are you referring to? What are the current stereotypes going around in your opinion?

    I know for awhile here, calling someone LSI was a means of insulting them and calling them stubborn, close-minded, and unable to listen to reason. There were threads where people were spitting the type back and forth at each other like an accusation. It was kind of funny. And equally funny how offended people would become having such a label attached to them. That trend has mostly passed as far as I can tell though.

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    Stereotypes don't fit LSI on here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I don't have a mustache. Of course, I am female, so there's that.

    There isn't just one description of LSIs, there are many, so . . . which are you referring to? What are the current stereotypes going around in your opinion?

    I know for awhile here, calling someone LSI was a means of insulting them and calling them stubborn, close-minded, and unable to listen to reason. There were threads where people were spitting the type back and forth at each other like an accusation. It was kind of funny. And equally funny how offended people would become having such a label attached to them. That trend has mostly passed as far as I can tell though.
    I think stereotypes can be moderately useful in distinguishing sociotypes. Having said that, I am uncomfortable when I hear people say, "This type always does this or that..." To rephrase my original question: Are there things that you occasionally think, do or say that you consider to be outside of your LSI type description, as you understand it?
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by AbsurdEnough View Post
    In a world of over 7 billion people, the several hundred million that fall into each of the 16 categories of types will not fit every single stereotype perfectly.

    Each person is unique. Socionics is cookie-cutter. Socionics does not fit each person. Therefore, socionics does not fit reality.

    Rant aside, perhaps it could be a useful thread to discuss how accurate the current LSI description is. Even though I believe it's futile to revise a more accurate stereotype which essentially won't fit everyone anyway, perhaps making it fit a higher % of people could be of benefit for discussion.
    My understanding of the LSI sociotype: Systematic. Quiet, but responsive to the emotional atmosphere. Having a sensor's ability to interact in the physical world with confidence and effectiveness.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Not fitting stereotypes?

    Isn't this the wrong forum for that kind of talk?

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I don't have a mustache.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Well, I don't identify with things like this:
    In the opinion of Maxim, in the perfect system there must not be of unique, irreplaceable elements. (in this once more is manifested the critical attitude of Maxim toward the frankly individualistic position: man can be as much as desired bright individuality, but this yet does not give to it the right to consider itself in principle irreplaceable.) In the working association there must not be of irreplaceable specialists, just as the clearly expressed individualities, since this generates inequality in the interrelations, introduces in them confusion and uncertainty, and for this very reason in the critical situation it becomes dangerous for the vital activity of the association.
    I don't think we should all tamp ourselves down into the form of cogs in a great machine, and have greater respect for the individual than that. Nor do I think the brilliance and achievement of an individual should be discouraged, but instead celebrated, and evidence bears out that allowing greater autonomy and creativity in a workforce leads to innovation, and far greater productivity and effectiveness. The opposite of being dangerous to the vital activity of the association, it can become its lifeblood. It is however a philosophical ideal and in practice when I've been responsible for hiring or managing other workers, I've really just wanted them to get the work done.

    Also, I don't agree with the hierarchical supreme respect for authority and treating people differently based on their station that is often cited as an LSI trait, and I don't think the authors who write on it quite understand the psychology behind it. While it can SEEM to be that LSIs are overfocused on hierarchy, I think other authors of descriptions hit much closer to home when they describe it as the desire to be a part of something meaningful. I'm sure you can find many an LSI who finds himself a place or sees where he fits and makes a difference, and he'll be eagerly goosestepping with the rest of them, but with a different philosophical bent, you may find an individualist or even anarchist LSI speaking out with complete conviction against the idea.

    To be a part of something to make a difference through the course of time is a very attractive idea, but not everyone will agree with what is valuable and what is not. Also, Fe-seeking can be influential when an LSI finds themself as being accepted, taken in, liked by a particular group with particular ideals - not enough to change an LSIs own ideals, but if they are in agreement with the LSI already, they may find themselves a very strong ally once they make the LSI feel welcome.

    Basically, I'm saying that I don't think a lot of the stereotypes are necessarily wrong. A lot of them can be observed and fit, but the idea behind why someone is doing what they're doing rather than a particular behavior itself is more valuable. I can say that I don't do a particular behavioral stereotype, but understand why it's a stereotype and where it comes from, and very few of them are baseless.

    I'm not obsessed with order in my environment, but understand the psychology behind those who are, and how they possess a similar psychology to me but are focusing in another area (think enneagram instincts for an example and looking at various LSI descriptions is basically like reading different instinct subtypes of E1s. The focus of an so 1 is different from an sp 1 is different from an sx 1, but the underlying reasons behind them are the same.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    My understanding of the LSI sociotype: Systematic. Quiet, but responsive to the emotional atmosphere. Having a sensor's ability to interact in the physical world with confidence and effectiveness.
    Part of the complication is that for some reason several members have spun a yarn about LSIs being emotionally reactive, when they are generally pretty well behaved and non-obtrusive friendly people.

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    One of my current supervisors is an LSI. We actually get along great. He likes my work and thinks i do a good job. I think it helps that i've kept my distance and keep interaction to a minimum. That said, i sometimes wonder if he might not be LSI, but he sure does VI that way. He is a lot like Bear Grylls, he has the cold staring eyes, he is always dressed impeccably, and he has that aristocratic demeanor where you have to "earn" his respect otherwise you are a nobody. He will also occasionally say something that is really hurtful (though i've come to realize he doesn't mean it that way, he is just a bit socially inept that way). Another creative Fi coworker of mine felt a similar level of offense to the same things, as I used to. In this case, i've found a good practical use of socionics just in terms of avoiding interaction to remain on good terms, and also not to take what he says too much to heart, because as my conflictor, i am likely to misinterpret, and vice versa.
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    1) I self-type SLI. (I'm convinced that's my true type because my Ne PoLR is oblivious to possibiliteis that don't fit into my Ti frame of thinking.)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    don't type by descriptions or stereotypes

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    Oh my.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    don't type by descriptions or stereotypes

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    type by functions...ask, what is the person doing and for what purpose.

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    My dad is LSI and a real social butterfly.. not sure if that goes against the descriptions or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agarina View Post
    My dad is LSI and a real social butterfly.. not sure if that goes against the descriptions or not.
    It doesn't go against the descriptions. Per my understanding anyway...
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Accumulated life experience can go against any description.

    Those who fit a particular type description, and are that type, either it is coincidence or it's how they behave when they feel unrestrained by society in some fashion.

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    idk how helpful I am being but I love love love LSIs, particularly my bf

    Also, before I met him I really couldn't identify LSIs because I too bought into that stereotype of them being systematic or whatever. I thought of them as accountants or something. I was completely wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    idk how helpful I am being but I love love love LSIs, particularly my bf

    Also, before I met him I really couldn't identify LSIs because I too bought into that stereotype of them being systematic or whatever. I thought of them as accountants or something. I was completely wrong.
    That's alright. Them accountants won't feel offended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Time View Post
    That's alright. Them accountants won't feel offended.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    In practice, it seems the stereotype is the type, regardless of the fit.

    Attachment 2138

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    My understanding of the LSI sociotype: Systematic. Quiet, but responsive to the emotional atmosphere. Having a sensor's ability to interact in the physical world with confidence and effectiveness.
    Oh yesss, this is my lsi friend to a T ! Hmm, one LSI friend I have is VERY 'bubbly', she laughs at everything, it's like her main mode of interaction, and she's very very stubborn in doing things her way, where as my other LSI friend is a little utilitarian, obsessing over what is best for the group of people we are with, which exasperates my SLE friend and I, who just want to do our own thing!

    My LSI best friend is not very confrontational. I don't think she has control over the rest of our group (eie, ese, sle and i). In this group, each of the rest of us beta, seem to be about our power and influence, where as she has kind of stepped out of the game; the SLE likes overall dominance through power of character, the EIE wants to the dominant one through expression and attention, I am focused on being powerful through quietly and slowly being the most well liked by each individual, which then means I can freeze out people who have 'wronged me'...the LSI is like just the observer of all things lol. But in a calculated way . It's so dramatic being beta...

    She definitely is much more open not us v them. She likes to be on good terms with all people...cares a bit too much. I observe she is searching for closeness, for popularity, but I can't help feeling like it's so empty. This doesn't seem to fit in with the individualized, self-possessed LSI that knows who they are, that sizes their life down to what matters...

    LSIs are often by default conventional, polite, and perhaps somewhat mechanical (or even forcible) in their approach to social interaction. That is her to a T! But my other LSI friend is very like emotive and bubbily, however, even she has undertones of very apparent rigidness. This friend is great at creating excitement and making you like her, which is very unlike the LSI stereotype who apparently have difficulty creating fun and connection (kind of a harsh point lol).
    Last edited by dinki; 07-11-2013 at 11:59 AM.
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    LSIs are generally realistic. analytical, and impersonal. Interested in the underlying principles. Organized in relation to facts. Perceptive, not domineering. The deciveness of the thinking shows in intellectual matters. Outwardly quiet and reserved, detached, and aloof. Inwardly observed in the current analysis or problem. Don't like small talk so much or social contacts unless they have hobby-related activities they can share.

    LSIs are analyzers. They are analytical, logical, and objectively critical. Not likely to be convinced by anything but reasoning. Detachedly curious and very adaptable, until one of their ruling principles is violated, at which point they stop adapting.

    I think in my case, I can pretend to be a lot of different people. Testing requires it, and sometimes career requires it. But I stick with the same set of principles, and it's hard to change that. I can pretend to like someone, but, I only trust a very small amount of people at any given time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finale View Post
    LSIs are analyzers. They are analytical, logical, and objectively critical. Not likely to be convinced by anything but reasoning. Detachedly curious and very adaptable, until one of their ruling principles is violated, at which point they stop adapting.
    Subjective logic must be very objective, cough...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Subjective logic must be very objective, cough...
    Go argue with Myers-Briggs. I can see the objective nature if I look for it. I find that ISTPs get highly annoyed at times when objectivity is ignored.

    I think some of them know the difference, and they can call it out on anyone and themselves as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finale View Post
    Go argue with Myers-Briggs. I can see the objective nature if I look for it. I find that ISTPs get highly annoyed at times when objectivity is ignored.
    To hell with MBTI, this is Socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    To hell with MBTI, this is Socionics.
    True. Socionics is what you make it to be. I prefer to be a little more realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finale View Post
    True. Socionics is what you make it to be. I prefer to be a little more realistic.
    What? Socionics is Socionics - plenty of articles on first page of this site and if you want to interpret it as you wish and want it to fit your frame of "reality", better stick with MBTI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    What? Socionics is Socionics - plenty of articles on first page of this site and if you want to interpret it as you wish and want it to fit your frame of "reality", better stick with MBTI.
    I would prefer realities that exist. Socionics is too iffy Russian-interpreted guesses for my tastes. Of course, I prefer objectivity vs. the more subjective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finale View Post
    I would prefer realities that exist. Socionics is too iffy Russian-interpreted guesses for my tastes. Of course, I prefer objectivity vs. the more subjective.
    You're not LSI, then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    You're not LSI, then.
    And I hope you don't eat that piece of .......shit that's in your avatar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finale View Post
    And I hope you don't eat that piece of .......shit that's in your avatar.
    I'm going to eat it and kick your teeth in after I ate it, then I'm going to take a dump in your mouth. Cantankerous and hostile personality, over and out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I'm going to eat it and kick your teeth in after I ate it, then I'm going to take a dump in your mouth.
    Bleh. Boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finale View Post
    Bleh. Boring.
    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    LSI friend is a little utilitarian, obsessing over what is best for the group of people we are with, which exasperates my SLE friend and I, who just want to do our own thing!
    I've never seen this behavior with LSI, my SLI friend does do this occasionally, the rest of the group is alpha+beta.

    My LSI best friend is not very confrontational. I don't think she has control over the rest of our group (eie, ese, sle and i). In this group, each of the rest of us beta, seem to be about our power and influence, where as she has kind of stepped out of the game; the SLE likes overall dominance through power of character, the EIE wants to the dominant one through expression and attention, I am focused on being powerful through quietly and slowly being the most well liked by each individual, which then means I can freeze out people who have 'wronged me'...the LSI is like just the observer of all things lol. But in a calculated way . It's so dramatic being beta...
    This sounds more like and SLI.

    If your typings of the rest of the people in the group are correct, then an LSI would not take a back role. Fe-egos (and you have two in your group) are drawn to LSIs in a way that I don't see mentioned too often in this forum, probably because you are reading too much wikisocion. Also, an LSI is more likely than an SLE to maintain power and influence with the same group of people, over a longer period of time. Unless the LSI is an outcast in some other way that they have no power over, like they are way uglier or way less wealthy or some totally obvious social-status indicator like that; LSIs are never wallflowers with close friends and esp other betas.
    She definitely is much more open not us v them.
    Another indication of possible mistyping on your part, this is democratic and more fitting to SLI.


    On a tangent, I had a theory when I first began doing research about this that the wikisocion is written almost entirely by ILE. You just have to look at the first few paragraphs of the ILE description and compare it that of LSI to know that something is off. ILE is dazzling, brilliant; LSI is a dull automaton. Granted, LSI is supervisee to ILE but that doesn't mean anything to the other types. The IEE description is also rather tepid, and this type happens to be ILE's supervisor. Hmmm....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    Oh yesss, this is my lsi friend to a T ! Hmm, one LSI friend I have is VERY 'bubbly', she laughs at everything, it's like her main mode of interaction, and she's very very stubborn in doing things her way,
    Tbh most LSI males and females I know are kind of like this. I only know one E-5 LSI who is more introverted, but I would still call him very socially forward (say you have interacted only once and you meet again, he's likely to come up and strike conversation).
    They're positivist-logical-rational and thus emotion-creating, after all.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post
    I've never seen this behavior with LSI, my SLI friend does do this occasionally, the rest of the group is alpha+beta.



    This sounds more like and SLI.

    If your typings of the rest of the people in the group are correct, then an LSI would not take a back role. Fe-egos (and you have two in your group) are drawn to LSIs in a way that I don't see mentioned too often in this forum, probably because you are reading too much wikisocion.


    Also, an LSI is more likely than an SLE to maintain power and influence with the same group of people, over a longer period of time. Unless the LSI is an outcast in some other way that they have no power over, like they are way uglier or way less wealthy or some totally obvious social-status indicator like that; LSIs are never wallflowers with close friends and esp other betas.




    Another indication of possible mistyping on your part, this is democratic and more fitting to SLI.


    On a tangent, I had a theory when I first began doing research about this that the wikisocion is written almost entirely by ILE. You just have to look at the first few paragraphs of the ILE description and compare it that of LSI to know that something is off. ILE is dazzling, brilliant; LSI is a dull automaton. Granted, LSI is supervisee to ILE but that doesn't mean anything to the other types. The IEE description is also rather tepid, and this type happens to be ILE's supervisor. Hmmm....
    Why is an SLI more democratic? My dad is highly arrogant and disregarding of other people (but only people he trusts will know this...due to fi valuing) and very reserved in a social situation unless it's to make some witty sarcastic bite. She just likes having social connections...so she will reach out/consider different people in the group. I think this is down to being so first, where as my SLE friend and I are so last.

    I rarely read wiki socion lol. I've been typing for around 6 years so now find that pretty simple and I don't like to be too over involved in the theory...over involvement can lead to a very one dimensional view of people or a need to explain and view people solely through socionics which is kind of dull and sometimes irritating (when discussing someone with someone else interested in it).

    How are we drawn to them in ways 'not mentioned on this forum'? I don't tend to create comments from wikisocion but more personal examples of friends or social situations.




    "an LSI is more likely than an SLE to maintain power and influence with the same group of people, over a longer period of time." why? I don't see any reason for this...in THIS group the SLE will definitely maintain more power and influence over time; first of all because she has a great natural charisma, which draws the rest of us to her, where the LSI does not. Secondly, because the LSI has a tendency to get somewhat aggressive or to take a mistep in social situations; for example, she IS concerned about her wider social influence; she recently befriended an ex boyfriend of the EIE, who was a complete prick, in order to avoid awkwardness of when she ran into him with mutual friends (to which the EIE blew up about), and the rest of our group would know not to do that.

    Hmm yeah, not a wall flower, she is very assertive/dominant in a sense; like she likes to get things done, have things her way; but she isn't socially dominant; maybe because she lacks the confidence and sense of being able to influence others that the rest of us have; QUIETER is more the right word - I guess more introverted than everyone else. It says LSI's often find it hard to create a feeling of fun and connection - seems right with her and in why she is more reserved.

    This topic is also about how LSI's do not fit the stereotype. I feel like people here get this idea of a type, and then suddenly someone with real life experience of the person, will come in and describe a person which doesn't fit that, and then suddenly it's like 'oh wow, you can't be right! they couldn't possibly be like that!'. If you're speaking from a wealth of different LSI's that you know (theory in practice) as oppose to just a narrow interpretation of the theory then fair enough...but if you're simply suggesting she can't be an LSI because she is more quiet (which is in their type description anyway) and has less social influence (due to reasons unrelated to socionics such as charisma or social skill) then I'm questioning your position. Maybe my friend isn't fitting into YOUR personal experiences of what an LSI is like? What are the LSIs you have met been like in a social situation? Yeah I agree about what you said about the descriptions! Your take on the supervisior thing is interesting. My other LSI friend is one of the most powerful, and magnetic people I know. But this friend is more akin to the stereotypical LSI, more quiet and cold and finds it harder to build a connection with others.

    How I have noticed the LSI's power or influence come out irl, is more in practical matters; both my LSI friends HAVE to have control over the physical/practical side; they have to do things their way; they dictate what we do, where we do it, what time we do it; and they are sure to enforce this on the rest of the group; or leave the group behind. They want to go to this club, at this exact time, you better fucking be there...and they aren't going to bend to what you want to do unless you are of considerable social importance to them (even then...wouldn't fucking count on it). That to me is how their se-ti often mainfests. They do tend to seem to take more of a back seat unless they feel confident around you...in which case yeah, they come out of their shells a lot and can be quite dominant. Power and control does not always have to be about people. I'd give up control of an environment or a sequence of events for social influence over people...but I don't think any of my LSI friends would (or maybe it's that they want to maintain a certain amount of power and control; and controlling the way their life pans out; what they do in it, is thus, something they hold close and won't release).

    Possible that I have't given enough information. But for example, the intertype relations don't make sense. Her BEST FRIEND is an EIE, she has an overwhemigly positive reaction to her and to Fe generally. If you watch conflict relations in action; (my dad is SLI and sister EIE actually), they are full of conflict, irritation and withdrawal. The LSI always shows an excited interest in the EIE and explains away her behaviour with empathy when the rest of our group want to write her off. We also share a depth of connection which I could never have with an SLI, due to the super-ego relations I have with SLI's we can only have very enjoyable, shallow conversations for a small amount of time, before the difficulty in trying to connect and feeling of annoyance or guardedness begins to creep in. With my friend, I feel I could talk to her for hours, there is so much depth and understanding; and she definitely balances out my frantic ni-fe with smooth and structured ti, it's like she can make so much sense of my life when I look into it and it's like this ball of twisted up and interconnected colour threads that stop making sense to me after a while. I need someone to compartmentalize all the complications, insights and emotions I have in each situation. I'll talk to her and just feel energized and like things finally make sense (I think her wisdom and intelligence also have a lot to do with it; but that in conjunction with ti just makes me open up to her in a way I can't with anyone else). We feel as though we can talk to one another about the deepest shit, about anything at all and the other will totally get it. It's a great feeling.
    Last edited by dinki; 07-24-2013 at 10:51 AM.
    IEI, sp/sx 4w3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sssonyyy View Post

    Another indication of possible mistyping on your part, this is democratic and more fitting to SLI.


    The IEE description is also rather tepid, and this type happens to be ILE's supervisor. Hmmm....
    I'm assuming the use of the word democratic is because of the dichotomy that references the term. SLI would be aristocratic along with Beta. Gamma and Alpha are democratic.
    EII is ILE's supervisor. EII is kindred relations.

    I do agree about a few of the insights you made regarding the LSI prototypical behavior.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I'm assuming the use of the word democratic is because of the dichotomy that references the term. SLI would be aristocratic along with Beta. Gamma and Alpha are democratic.
    EII is ILE's supervisor. EII is kindred relations.

    I do agree about a few of the insights you made regarding the LSI prototypical behavior.
    Damn thanks for catching that.. here I thought all along that delta is democratic.

    And I meant INFj.. the descriptions are definitely not even though.

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