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Thread: Why are ILIs-INTps called "decisive"?

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    Default Why are ILIs-INTps called "decisive"?

    Gammas are a decisive quadra. I can see that being true for the LIE, ESI and the SEE. But how does this decisiveness manifest in the ILI? The wikisocion descriptions seem contradictory: "ILIs are also very indecisive. They may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially regarding their own future."
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
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    Their decisiveness is within their capacity to identify emerging trends and seize strategic objectives, they do this as a behind the scenes mastermind, largely reliant upon their mother to dress them in the morning.
     
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    Since sociotype descriptions are written by dilettantes, these half-baked descriptive contradictions shouldn't surprise you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saberstorm View Post
    Their decisiveness is within their capacity to identify emerging trends and seize strategic objectives, they do this as a behind the scenes mastermind, largely reliant upon their mother to dress them in the morning.
    Ahahahaha!
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    "Decisive" just means in a Se quadra.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    Gammas are a decisive quadra. I can see that being true for the LIE, ESI and the SEE. But how does this decisiveness manifest in the ILI? The wikisocion descriptions seem contradictory: "ILIs are also very indecisive. They may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially regarding their own future."
    'Has willpower' Se.

    'Doesn't make any decisions' Ni.

    'Clinical robotic rational' Te

    'Moral stick up the ass' Fi

    Lacking Fe - 'Fuck you and your family and your pet cat for not meeting my standards'

    Some use of Ne - 'Comes out with random'

    INTp = I REFUSE TO MAKE A FIRM DECISION UNLESS I ACCIDENTALLY DO THEN NO CHANGE. ESPECIALLY IN A CLINICAL ROBOTIC RATIONAL WAY ABOUT MORAL ISSUES. YOU DON'T LIKE IT WELL UP YOURS FUCKTARD OH AND THERE IS A ZEPPELIN IN MY MIND.

    Socionics is flawless for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    'Has willpower' Se.

    'Doesn't make any decisions' Ni.

    'Clinical robotic rational' Te

    'Moral stick up the ass' Fi

    Lacking Fe - 'Fuck you and your family and your pet cat for not meeting my standards'

    Some use of Ne - 'Comes out with random'

    INTp = I REFUSE TO MAKE A FIRM DECISION UNLESS I ACCIDENTALLY DO THEN NO CHANGE. ESPECIALLY IN A CLINICAL ROBOTIC RATIONAL WAY ABOUT MORAL ISSUES. YOU DON'T LIKE IT WELL UP YOURS FUCKTARD OH AND THERE IS A ZEPPELIN IN MY MIND.

    Socionics is flawless for sure.
    That was awesome.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    I'm pretty sure ILIs one day in their life make a decision to be 100% skeptical about everything, to the point of being a closed minded but at the same time wishy washy critic.

    If they were louder they would be EIE. ILI are decisively cranky, down and cynical.

    Also later on they all of a sudden find god or some similar sort of belief to follow, like free beer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Also later on they all of a sudden find god or some similar sort of belief to follow, like free beer.
    I already have an ironic charity which I registered to provide me free beer. Current donations are at $50 (approx).

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Also later on they all of a sudden find god or some similar sort of belief to follow, like free beer.
    Jesus-PBR.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    'Has willpower' Se.

    'Doesn't make any decisions' Ni.

    'Clinical robotic rational' Te

    'Moral stick up the ass' Fi

    Lacking Fe - 'Fuck you and your family and your pet cat for not meeting my standards'

    Some use of Ne - 'Comes out with random'

    INTp = I REFUSE TO MAKE A FIRM DECISION UNLESS I ACCIDENTALLY DO THEN NO CHANGE. ESPECIALLY IN A CLINICAL ROBOTIC RATIONAL WAY ABOUT MORAL ISSUES. YOU DON'T LIKE IT WELL UP YOURS FUCKTARD OH AND THERE IS A ZEPPELIN IN MY MIND.

    Socionics is flawless for sure.


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    Decisive is used with different meanings when describing an ILI (well in-decisive) and labeling the quadra values. The latter means rather resoluteness than capacity to take quick decisions. Se/Ni types are presumably more capable to deal with things as they are, stick to conventions, and so on. Note that its alternate name is "Resolute" and that its Ne/Si counterpart is not indecisive, but "Judicious" (and "Reasonable" to "Resolute").

    Ne/Si attitude is more pragmatic, they are less inclined to question things when interest or security is at stake and can make compromises quickly when needed. In law, for example, using its letter is a Decisive attitude, as it brings fast and unequivocal resolution to the premises (not necessarily what to decide from that point onwards, though); applying its spirit requires prudent interpretation (of the law, irrespective of the case). That example is rather a Se kind of Decisiveness, though Ni types value and can put it to good use.

    It is often quite hard to tell apart the "resoluteness" of the Decisive types from that of Serious and Rational. All of them are inclined one way or another to adopt rules of thumb, conventions, de facto statuses, maxims and so on. Just they are all different, one has do distinguish them.
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    Introverts don't make decisions. They just stare at the wall and drool.
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    looks like @davez has reached enlightenment regarding his ILI-ness lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    Gammas are a decisive quadra. I can see that being true for the LIE, ESI and the SEE. But how does this decisiveness manifest in the ILI? The wikisocion descriptions seem contradictory: "ILIs are also very indecisive. They may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially regarding their own future."
    The Reinin trait of Decisive is not the same as dictionary definition of the word "decisive". In terms of dichotomies, Decisive doesn't mean "certain" or "assured", but rather it refers to differences in mobilization cycles and in stages of the process of decision making (and as it has already been said, eventually even ILIs have to decide on something):

    Notes: The radical difference between Judicious and Decisive types is in the development of the cycle "mobilization—activity—relaxation" while performing any difficult, critical task. The concept of "natural state" does not refer to the whole process of existence of an individual—it refers only to a certain point in that cycle. The natural state of Judicious types is relaxation, slackness; the natural state of Decisive types is readiness, mobilization. Both types can distinguish between these states through contrast and clearly differentiate between them. They consciously leave their natural "base" state and "by force" bring themselves into the required state—Judicious types become aware of their state of mobilization, while Decisive types become aware of their state of rest.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...in-Dichotomies

    This link gives a few examples of Decisive types saying things like they have trouble relaxing and going into demobilized state, and this is something I've seen with Ni-ego types, ILIs included. Seems like they have trouble feeling a kind of heaviness and tiredness in their body, and may be unable to relax and go to sleep after a significant work load, exercise and wear themselves out until they drop from exhaustion, etc. An ILI I knew back in college would stay up and play video games up to early morning after finishing his final exams, then collapse and sleep well into mid-day on Saturday. He also wouldn't begin studying until the last moment, usually carefully calculating his time resources before the exam. Another ILI, of intuitive subtype, had trouble with his sleep cycle constantly resetting itself, so he would sometimes be sleeping days and sometimes sleeping at nights. These could be examples of what this dichotomy is attempting to describe.

    The names of the Reinin traits should be not translated literally (@Iris), it's better to read through their descriptions from the link above.

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    Thanks @siuntal, I didn't think of applying that interpretation to absorption/focus. I find myself becoming obsessive (mobilised) about certain things and it's impossible to calm down until the issue is solved, the puzzle conquered, the challenge overcome. Perhaps that's dominance, though?

    I also wonder how this ties together for the Judicious IPs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    looks like @davez has reached enlightenment regarding his ILI-ness lol


    The Reinin trait of Decisive is not the same as dictionary definition of the word "decisive". In terms of dichotomies, Decisive doesn't mean "certain" or "assured", but rather it refers to differences in mobilization cycles and in stages of the process of decision making (and as it has already been said, eventually even ILIs have to decide on something):



    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...in-Dichotomies

    This link gives a few examples of Decisive types saying things like they have trouble relaxing and going into demobilized state, and this is something I've seen with Ni-ego types, ILIs included. Seems like they have trouble feeling a kind of heaviness and tiredness in their body, and may be unable to relax and go to sleep after a significant work load, exercise and wear themselves out until they drop from exhaustion, etc. An ILI I knew back in college would stay up and play video games up to early morning after finishing his final exams, then collapse and sleep well into mid-day on Saturday. He also wouldn't begin studying until the last moment, usually carefully calculating his time resources before the exam. Another ILI, of intuitive subtype, had trouble with his sleep cycle constantly resetting itself, so he would sometimes be sleeping days and sometimes sleeping at nights. These could be examples of what this dichotomy is attempting to describe.

    The names of the Reinin traits should be not translated literally (@Iris), it's better to read through their descriptions from the link above.
    @siuntal That was a great explanation. This thread has been very helpful. Thanks, everyone!
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by siuntal View Post
    An ILI I knew back in college would stay up and play video games up to early morning after finishing his final exams, then collapse and sleep well into mid-day on Saturday. He also wouldn't begin studying until the last moment, usually carefully calculating his time resources before the exam. Another ILI, of intuitive subtype, had trouble with his sleep cycle constantly resetting itself, so he would sometimes be sleeping days and sometimes sleeping at nights. These could be examples of what this dichotomy is attempting to describe.
    Both examples sound like me, lol. I have the most irregular sleeping patterns. And lately I've been struggling to synchronize my mental readiness to my physical states. My body tends to get exhausted long before my brain does, and even though I can think and reason perfectly, physical tiredness ruins my functioning capabilities. Other times, though less frequently, I'd be physically rested but it would take a couple of hours to fully activate my brain. Basically, my body and my brain seem to want to go to sleep and wake up at different times of the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    Gammas are a decisive quadra. I can see that being true for the LIE, ESI and the SEE. But how does this decisiveness manifest in the ILI? The wikisocion descriptions seem contradictory: "ILIs are also very indecisive. They may lack the ability to make important decisions, especially regarding their own future."
    Decisive when it pertains to my sphere of knowledge, but indecisive with most everything else. In college, I was unsure what I wanted to do with my degree. Do I go into research and get underpaid? Do I go do graduate school and specialize further? Do I just try to get the highest paying job I can with my experience? A few good options that I may struggle with.

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