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Thread: Deltas especially IEEs, help me with procrastinating and distractions!

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Default Deltas especially IEEs, help me with procrastinating and distractions!

    Deltas, you can probably relate to my current dilemma, at least you IEEs can for sure.

    I am doing so bad lately with distraction and procrastination. I just keep putting off settling down and working toward goals. I read somewhere that IEEs kind of need structure imposed from a job. I worked really extra hard this school year where every moment of the day was structured at work and was complaining by the end of the constant daily work responsibilities and coming home tired to more at home. I blamed my lack of free time for the growing pile of disorganization and undone at home, and its true, I had very very little free time at home and when I was home it was Mom's "sun-downing" time and she interfered with anything I tried to start.

    So my long-awaited summer break is finally here. I needed rest time when school got out but now its been two weeks and I have overdone take-it-easy. Yet I still procrastinate. I feel like I did the first time I had a real summer off from teaching, as my Masters was finally done. It was such a shock to have free time I was immobilized and actually uncomfortable with it. I don't remember how long it took me to get going.

    I made plans to rectify the bad pace this year by next fall being my own "paid caregiver" at home for mom 30 hours a week next school year (I do it free all the time, but her funds can pay me rather than someone else those hours) and I'll sub one day a week to stay current and to get out of the house. This way I can be with Mom in her mellower time of day, and get things done here, and I'll have more patience with her in the evenings when she is not mellow, as my own stuff will be taken care of. Its a good temporary solution for me, especially since next year is a transition year as Lordwilling SLI and I marry. So I am really looking forward to a different pace next fall, and this is really the start of it. Its like I got a big gift of time to use in all these ways, and I am not using it.

    But I haven't started to establish any pace yet. Its just a lot of procrastination activities. I will work on a scrap of this and a scrap of that but I can't seem to settle down with direction. Its like I am flitting about. Kind of like a guilty butterfly. I have lots of ideas of what I ought to/want to do, tons, but I can't decide where to begin,so I don't begin.

    What do others do to pull themselves together when they get like this?

    Years ago in college I read an old paperback, "How to Manage Your Time and Your Life" and underlined the whole thing and strictly lived the principles and instructions therein and this hauled me out of such a funk, a funk akin to what I am in now. I got quite productive. Only maybe too productive; I don't want to get borderline-obsessed like I was, so, I have not felt called to look up that book again.

    Anyone have ideas or know a good resources for stuck people??

    [Remember we IEEs are resistant to being told to push ourselves through it. We need some other kind of approach. If I knew what, I would just do it! Actually its inspiration we need I think.]

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    This is the same as my consistency problem I just drafted in the previous thread.

    The only luck I've had has been to find someone wanting to be as productive / non-procrastinating, and tackling your productivity together. I literally seek out individuals that want to change something in their life and team up with them. Only problem is when they're lacking follow through, too.

    I'm afraid we IEEs can write and chant any number of wise mantras ("plan your work, work your plan"), but success in follow through, for me at least, has got to tied to another individual of stronger convictions.

    And on that note, I dearly miss my ESFJ friend, who would threaten to judge me and hold me accountable for things we did together.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    when you see the booty Galen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    [Remember we IEEs are resistant to being told to push ourselves through it. We need some other kind of approach. If I knew what, I would just do it! Actually its inspiration we need I think.]
    I'm sorry to tell you, but the world revolves around much more than just inspiration. While inspiration may be a vital spark that keeps people sane, a good portion of the time you spend alive will be without it driving you towards something. The rest is up to your own force of will.

    It sounds like you've become so acclimated to a prison life of structure and routine that to be outside of the institution means your internal sense of structure has atrophied. I became much the same way right when I was about to graduate from college, I knew that the system I had known for my entire life was about to vanish and I was to be expected to stand up and make something of myself.

    The simple answer here is to just starting doing something. It doesn't really matter what, so long as you're in control of where you're gonna go and what you'll be doing. I don't know that much about your life or your work or school or whatever, but if there's some long-standing goal you had in mind then try making little baby steps towards it. I find that I finish self-made goals the best when I:

    1) Work more on a project when I don't think I'm in the mood, especially if I really don't want to at the moment.
    2) Tell myself that I'll only work on it for 10 minutes at a time. Once those 10 minutes are up and I still feel like stopping, I can still feel like I did the work I set out to do; but if I've gotten into a groove and feel like doing more, then I'll just keep going.

    It's all about building up self-control and discipline, things that all people have to work at regardless of type.
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

    http://forum.socionix.com/
    It's pretty cool

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Thanks @Absurd for a useful pep talk. I like the "different philosophy" idea. Yes, its true, I need to get through "don't feel like it". Yes maybe I was looking for inspiration in hopes of an enthusiastic run of getting things done at a pace that I would just end up needing rest from. Well I just came from ordering that old Alan Lakein's "How to Control Your Time and Your Life" on half.com since it was helpful before and if I obsessed before, I have grown now, and I can use the suggestions without obsessing. I see a reviewer said Bill Clinton recommended it in his autobiography (not a Bill fan, but he was a "doer"). I figured maybe my IEE craving for new things should be ignored here and Lakein's book did work for me before. Maybe I will use his theories suggestions for prioritizing my habits, a list of minimal must-do things everyday. I do need to come up with a new daily routine tat makes sure I reach goals and/or live like I want to.

    I have heard the 21 day habit thing, and I should mark it on the calender and choose my daily habits and make sure I do that minimal thing and then see after 21 days how it is.

    I will tell myself this, "It's easy to get what you want, by doing a little each day consistently." for a peptalk.

    I will also look into Olsen's book. He obviously is a get-things-done guy.

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    Different other person, different other job, Eliza.

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    I know I help people in procrastinating. That should remind people that it's not always the right thing to do

    Absurd: You Ti dominants sure say things I don't really know where to put.
    labtard: fml
    Absurd: Hah.

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    I don't know, didn't really need inspiration to do things. Read my brother's book who has PhD in these matters, it's called: "How to Absurd and live after". Anyway, breaking things you want to do in smaller chunks can help at times.
    Last edited by Absurd; 07-07-2013 at 08:18 PM.

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    A combination of what applejacks and anndelise suggested works ok for me. My biggest problem is motivating myself to write articles or work on my book if there is no deadline, so I join or start writing groups to be held accountable. It also helps to move back and forth between projects (grade papers for 15 minutes, read half of an article for 20 minutes, take the dogs out, etc.).

    And on the upside, I know I can rely on my astounding ability to work well under pressure. I do turn into a machine.
    “Let us forget with generosity those who cannot love us”
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    I have a long term steady approach to things which would not work for carefree types like you guys what parks said: compress or systematically get rid of stuff; the less clutter you have the less you'll have to worry about? Something like simplifying your life but doing things that don't allow you to bring unnecessary clutter home. IMO as long as you do something a day, whether that's something you feel like or other system then eventually you'll reach a better place, it's when you're not doing things that's a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    A combination of what applejacks and anndelise suggested works ok for me. My biggest problem is motivating myself to write articles or work on my book if there is no deadline, so I join or start writing groups to be held accountable. It also helps to move back and forth between projects (grade papers for 15 minutes, read half of an article for 20 minutes, take the dogs out, etc.).

    And on the upside, I know I can rely on my astounding ability to work well under pressure. I do turn into a machine.
    I "liked" this post because I was just about to post something very similar.

    What helps me a lot is setting a goal. If i have a goal in mind that I really really want to reach, i can be quite determined in getting there.
    And yes, I relate to what you said Kim. If i am up against a deadline I also turn into a machine. This just happened the other night. I'd procrastinated this big project down to the last week (i needed to write 5 different "papers" which take some literature searching, etc, and it's due every 6 months for my program, and this one was due by the end of this past Friday.

    So i finally felt the fire under me to get working on this about a week ago (though in this case it wasn't because i was goofing off, i was just swamped with other stuff). Well the first, second, and third one each took me two days. 4th one took me 5 hours. the 5th one took me 1.5 hours (from 10:30pm to midnight!), because it was all the time i had left!

    But that made me think, i could have gotten the others done in 1.5 hours too, and i could have gotten all 5 done in less than a day if i were that focused for all of them, like i was for that last one.

    But yeah, procrastination and getting distracted has been a work in progress for me and still remains so... In particular when it's something i dont really want to be doing.
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    The other thing i want to mention is that often I put off doing something because of a fear that the task seems too large or too complicated, or i just dont know where to start. Because I'm often faced with deadlines nowadays, I have been forced to face my fears and just DO IT. What I've realized helps me a lot psychologically is the following:

    --dissect the task into smaller pieces that you can be like "that's easy! I know how to do that!"
    --often when you do so, you realize that the task really isn't that bad and that it'll be done quicker than you think it will.
    --ignore your large to-do list and focus on that one task you've chosen. When it's done (which will be sooner than you think ), choose another task. Repeat the process.
    Often i might be working on a task, and getting distracted by thoughts of "omg i need to do this, omg i need to do that." I just have to quiet those thoughts and get what i am doing now done. Otherwise i end up leaving tasks half-done all over the place.
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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Different other person, different other job, Eliza.
    Oh! Thank you for explaining. even though I didn't get what you said at first. Thank you @AbsurdEnough. And why are your names so much the same??

    Quote Originally Posted by AbsurdEnough View Post
    Don't ignore the part of you which may be your best trait. Just keep it withing a gameplan while you practice/pursue what you want.
    That's kind of you to say, and true. My God-given ENFp traits are a gift. Just because a trait becomes an obstacle to what I want to get done doesn't mean its less a gift.


    Quote Originally Posted by AbsurdEnough View Post
    A quote I like is as follows:

    "The morning is for thinking. The afternoon is for doing. The evening is for reading. The night is for sleeping."

    It was said by a successful CEO. I forgot which corporation. But it really stuck with me.



    Maybe you could use your brainstorming in the morning, coming up with new ideas, how to improve your life - but there has to be a shift where you get into a habit and get done what you need to get done. Then, in the evening, you can reflect on what you did to become more effective, reading Jeff Olsen's book may help, and then, not to get carried away too much in reflecting, get some sleep before it gets too late so that you're refreshed for the next day.

    Each day is but one step towards what you want. It's all about putting a lot of little steps together.

    That's all for now.
    Its a good peptalk. Thanks and also I like the morning, afternoon evening quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I have a long term steady approach to things which would not work for carefree types like you guys what parks said: compress or systematically get rid of stuff; the less clutter you have the less you'll have to worry about? Something like simplifying your life but doing things that don't allow you to bring unnecessary clutter home. IMO as long as you do something a day, whether that's something you feel like or other system then eventually you'll reach a better place, it's when you're not doing things that's a problem.
    Yes this is all true and one of the challenges I face. I want to get my stuff minimalized and in great order. I once had great order. Then 4 moves in 5 years and all manner of craziness and no plan for my future except to get through my immediate challenges. But wait, actually, that's true but rather an excuse. I could have bit by bit taken care of it but I didn't, as, I chose to follow my nature and that's not in my nature.

    Anyway, now I have a clearer view of my future. My SLI will be here and I want there to be "room". He is not demanding that but I want that to create that psychological room from having belongings pared down and in excellent order. And it will benefit our new beginning together for me to have peace about the order of things. I have done it in the past, and I have been stuck just now at recreating that.

    And for some reason your EII (not just yours but the two EII friends I know who share the same traits) way of efficiently and naturally doing what I am struggling with is intimidating to me. I have to realize its just you using your gifts. Some things for each of us are a natural gift and some things we have to work at....

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    The other thing i want to mention is that often I put off doing something because of a fear that the task seems too large or too complicated, or i just dont know where to start. Because I'm often faced with deadlines nowadays, I have been forced to face my fears and just DO IT. What I've realized helps me a lot psychologically is the following:

    --dissect the task into smaller pieces that you can be like "that's easy! I know how to do that!"
    --often when you do so, you realize that the task really isn't that bad and that it'll be done quicker than you think it will.
    --ignore your large to-do list and focus on that one task you've chosen. When it's done (which will be sooner than you think ), choose another task. Repeat the process.
    Often i might be working on a task, and getting distracted by thoughts of "omg i need to do this, omg i need to do that." I just have to quiet those thoughts and get what i am doing now done. Otherwise i end up leaving tasks half-done all over the place.
    Oh, wow, you and @Galen and @applejacks all reflect me in the way you do things and like I just told applejack in her post I have mixed reactions to that image in the mirror. Particularly helpful things (and there were other helpful things) I bolded in your post above. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    I'm sorry to tell you, but the world revolves around much more than just inspiration. While inspiration may be a vital spark that keeps people sane, a good portion of the time you spend alive will be without it driving you towards something. The rest is up to your own force of will.
    LOL it takes an IEE to know the weak spot and thats the truth you tell. Just because I like relying on inspiration does not mean thats what the world revolves around. Thanks for saying the truth!

    Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
    It sounds like you've become so acclimated to a prison life of structure and routine that to be outside of the institution means your internal sense of structure has atrophied. I became much the same way right when I was about to graduate from college, I knew that the system I had known for my entire life was about to vanish and I was to be expected to stand up and make something of myself.

    The simple answer here is to just starting doing something. It doesn't really matter what, so long as you're in control of where you're gonna go and what you'll be doing. I don't know that much about your life or your work or school or whatever, but if there's some long-standing goal you had in mind then try making little baby steps towards it. I find that I finish self-made goals the best when I:

    1) Work more on a project when I don't think I'm in the mood, especially if I really don't want to at the moment.
    2) Tell myself that I'll only work on it for 10 minutes at a time. Once those 10 minutes are up and I still feel like stopping, I can still feel like I did the work I set out to do; but if I've gotten into a groove and feel like doing more, then I'll just keep going.

    It's all about building up self-control and discipline, things that all people have to work at regardless of type.
    Its very helpful Galen to share how you take in the reins on your IEE-ness. Thank you.

    Well its truly like the scripture analogy that we are all parts of one body and we need each other. A world of only IEEs would be a terribly problematic place. I can't help but realize that though my plea was especially for IEEs to help me since IEEs get what its like to be like this, the help I need really comes from other types. LSEs maybe and others unlike IEE. And the good IEE advice here is actually stuff IEEs had to learn from those other types when their natural IEE ways threatened to get the best of them.

    I ordered that book and then the advice here made me realize its really what I need, the help of some other type, an author who is LSE maybe or some efficiency expert who probably never was an IEE in order to make and meet goals because I'm stuck and this crossroads is a naturally weak point for any IEE.

    I went back and read the reviews on that book and realized and remembered there is a good reason it truly helped me so much in my life. I think I will take @Galen & other's advice and in these next days I will "... just starting doing something. It doesn't really matter what, so long as you're in control of where you're gonna go and what you'll be doing.... if there's some long-standing goal you had in mind then try making little baby steps towards it...."

    and making myself do just 10 minutes is a good idea.

    I know when I get the book i will be immediately following the authors plan to lay out my goals, so meanwhile I'll do the above.

    Thanks so much! Writing this post and getting the replies really made me see that waiting and hoping for inspiration to come and make everything better isn't going to do a thing...

    [and actually, now that I see it written out, its a pretty stupid thought... but its actually what I was doing without thinking it through].
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 07-08-2013 at 07:31 AM.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Wow, I ordered that book today (already shipped!) and went tonight and read the reviews, and it reminded me how helpful it was to me years ago. It really helped me reach multiple goals in college, and soar, in my grades and work and juggling multiple responsibilities and still meeting all kinds of personal goals. I feel like in many ways I am today where I was just before i read the book before, and am encouraged remembering by reading the reviews that I did very quickly get my life together. Which is want to want to do, quickly get my life together. Here are some of the reviews, in case any IEEs or anyone else are interested. ... I think this is going to be the start of something good...



    One of the most clear-headed, sensible books I've ever read, and possibly the one easiest to apply directly to life activities.


    Almost every other book on time management I have seen has rehashed what was written in this book over 35 years ago.

    I have read a number of books on Time Management. This is one of the earliest but I still think it's the best. Get your long term priorities straight, prioritize your daily To Do list and work it--simple and effective. I tried the Getting Things Done method and it was terribly cumbersome so I was surprised by the GTD recommendation in the 2 star reviews.


    It's tailored to you, and the author seems to really want to help you, and he comes across as someone how actually knows this stuff from experience.
    He helped me realize where my strengths are and what I WANT instead of spoonfeeding you some useless mantra I am not comfortable with.
    The best indicator of how serious and professional the author is, is the page count. It's ~160 pages, this guy does NOT waste your time in any way what-so-ever.



    This is the best introduction to time management. I believe one of the hallmarks of a good time management book is that one shouldn't have to spend a lot of time reading it. This book is brief, concise, and just about every sentence is useful. If you need to improve your time management skills start with this book.


    I teach a course at Rushmore University based on this book. By selecting their most important goals, analyzing how they spend their time now and looking for mroe efficient methods, my students are often able to increase the amount of time they spend on important activities by 30-40 hours a week while feeling better about themselves.

    If your life is out of control, read and apply this book!



    In my opinion this book still stands head and shoulders above other books of the genre because it says it all and it says it briefly without sacrificing content.

    Its good because Lakein makes accommodation for human nature, and works with it and around it, vs. some such books that assume everyone has the self-discipline of a navy seal. He helps procrastinators and the lazy, as well as those who aren't these things but want to improve.



    I think that virtually any book that you read on time management has drawn from the ideas found in this book. It contains straight talking practical advice that if followed will lead you to personal happiness and fulfillment.
    He also provides a fast track through the book (go to pages 158, 30, 11) on the back that gets you thinking about and doing the most beneficial things quickly. Handy for those that feel they do not have the time to read a whole book.


    Don't purchase any other time management book! - said by many


    You can open this book at any page and learn something even after you have read it for years.... It doesn't make any sense to say anything about time management other than what Alan Lakein has already said.

    This slim book probably packs more good advice per page than many titles two or three times longer.



    How hard is it to write short? And to think smart? Lakein manages both in this brilliant, slim volume which goes beyond productivity tips (though great ones abound) by first guiding you to the right path for you - so your new-found efficiency will propel you down the road of most satisfaction. One of my top favorite books of all time, all subjects. I revisit it frequently, after twenty years- and it never disappoints.




    When my life was in chaos, this book sorted out my priorities.

    I can apply almost all advices presented in this book to my life from the day I read it.

    The chapters about procrastination are excellent.



    I bought this book because it's one of the first things Bill Clinton mentions in his autobiography, My Life, as setting him on the road to success. He... wrote that this was the only "how to..."-book that he ever read. ...



    This book cuts through all the theoritical stuff and provides immediate steps for action. I especially found the sections that explains why we sometimes complete simple routine task instead of tackling the critical A items that really matter.



    I believe that it is very hard to find a book which is more important than this book. ... Being too far away from ideas inside this book, you will be very hard to achieve anything in your life. The time you read it will be paid off several times.




    This book was sitting around the house for quite some time until I fortunately picked it up to look through it! This book SPOKE TO ME! There are 2 types of perfectionists: those who do everything, and those who do nothing.. I'm the latter. Through the straight-forward, tell-it-how-it-is approach, I felt like somebody else related to me! I've read time management books before, but it's no wonder this is a national best-seller. Honestly, I haven't read it all the way through, since it motivates me to get going, but I enjoy reading it! Also, it doesn't get old like most things do for me! That's because "I" get to decide what my priorities are. These last few weeks since I've found this book have been so sweet. It's not the kind of book that makes you feel you're not doing what's the most important thing (and what you WANT to do! ). Also, the swiss cheese idea really stuck to me. It says to just spend 5 min. on your A-1. There were goals I had, but never recognized them as such or gave them the attention they deserved. Just last week, I was so thrilled and felt so alive to not just worry about a particualar goal I had, but instead, to take action. Um, the BEST part (or one of the best parts! ) about this book is coming up with your A-1, A-2, A-3... goals! I had my mom do it, as I read off from the book how to, and she was so thankful. It was just amazing! This book has changed my life from the moment I picked it up. I used to feel like doing Homework and Projects and such at the very last minute, since I knew it would get done, and I'd be forced to turn it in as is. Now, I see that I've changed in such simple, but helpful ways! I actually started on a project a week before it was due! Simply amazing. My life was a constant running from one crisis to the next (all-nighters common). I'm almost dumbfounded at how NORMALIZED it is. I never knew this bliss..


    I was expecting to see something I have seen a million times(the list+prioritize+do theme) but instead had a surprise. Alan talks straight to the reader asking him/her to confront his/her fears and make the best use of time. Actually, I am supposed to be working on my A1 task


    Everybody has a dream of some sort. This book is a road map to making it real. I first read it twenty years ago when I was an unfocused puppy and it absolutely changed my life FOREVER!


    How to Get Control of Your Time and Your Life is, perhaps, the best book on time management ever written. It does not waste your time but gets right to the point. You must establish SMART (specific, measurable, achieveable, related/relevant, and time framed) goals for yourself and then prioritize them using Lakein's A/C system. "A" goals are the most important to you and you must plan on spending 80% of your time to achieve them. "C" goals (TV, lawn care, shopping, etc.) are the place where most people "waste" their lives and spend 80% of their time. This ratio must be reversed, according to Lakein.

    He would agree with e.e. cummings that "To be nobody but yourself in a world that is night and day trying to make you just like everybody else means to fight the hardest fight any human being can fight, and never stop fighting." Once we have set goals that utilize our unique talents and abilities, we will have the will power and determination to do the work necessary to achieve them.
    To accomplish our goals Lakein recommends that we make a daily "to do" list and always start with "A's," not "C's." Most of our time is spent working harder on things that don't matter. We may be efficient, but Lakein suggests that our goal is to do what matters most and become effective. "Work smarter, not harder" is the mantra he wants us to repeat and couple that saying with his last piece of advice --"Do it now."
    Stick your finger into this small book and any page you hit will have wise words to put into action. Learning comes from daily practice and developing habits that "put first things first," taken from Stephen Covey's best seller, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People -- also recommended is Covey's fine book on effective living appropriately titled First Things First.
    Rarely has a book that costs so little paid such rich dividends. You won't be disappointed.



    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 07-08-2013 at 08:25 PM. Reason: bolding the parts that matter most to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Oh! Thank you for explaining. even though I didn't get what you said at first.
    Shit happens and as for William - looks like a piss poor attempt at trying to piss me off.

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    I am a recovering procrastinator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I am a recovering procrastinator.
    Ditto...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Ditto...
    Thanks for sharing.

    That is my new identity... and my helper out of this mess is Lakein. The book came fast, and I am happy with progress already, and very hopeful. @AbsurdEnough and @Galen helped me see in this thread that this was a problem I needed to address, not just wait for inspiration to bale me out. Though Lakein inspires as well as advises.

    Your post here and other IEE comments in @applejacks' post made me realize that this is a real IEE weakness, so I can't just wait it out. I know I can push through, too, like you said you do at the last minute, but I really don't want to live anymore in that rest/push mode especially because it always feels like too much push. I really want to go about my days with peace and mindfulness, and I guess I can't do that naturally without a little more structure.

    Later this evening I am going to write up my lifetime goals according to his formula, which is what everything is based on. Then I'll compare them to the ones I wrote in college, and then I wrote up new ones again a few years after I married. After that I guess I "got too busy". Which is weird because I was crazy busy when I started in in college and it helped me pull it together and accomplish so much, happily, and without stress. I think I had a hard time implementing it the 2nd time because I was in denial how bad my marraige was and how much it impeded me, as I was constantly focused on how to make it better (or not make him mad). I haven't looked at those old lifetime goals list in a long time, so it will be interesting to compare with today's. I remember some of the ones I wrote in college embarrassed me to reread the 2nd time I did them...

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    I think another real problem IEEs may have is saying "no" to assignments. We like people to be pleased, and along with a poor ability to assess time/workload proportions, often end up take on way more than we can handle (at least I find it to be a real problem for myself).

    We then end up working ourselves into sickness/depression/burnout trying to please people, and stressing out when people are upset it's not done yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NobleFool View Post
    Could you take out the trash for me please?
    I might say OK to that but will be cursing you and hate you forever for being a "user" and "lazy". As such, i would thus keep my distance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NobleFool View Post
    Haha perfect. So you'd be nice in the moment, but then I know next time to not be lazy and to just do it myself haha.

    I was just testing if you would say 'no' though. You were supposed to just say 'no'.
    I might say no. It depends... Maybe depends on how you ask and whether or not you're otherwise a person I like. If you are a person who is really amazingly nice and is just swamped with work etc, and has done 1000 things for me, i'd say yes and be absolutely glad to do it.

    If you are just taking advantage of me and i previously was on good terms with you, then i'll probably say ok (or not) and then change my mind about you

    If you are someone i dont like, and are obviously trying to take advantage of me, then i would say no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NobleFool View Post
    Haha this is fun. How would this vary depending on how much work you had to do, though? yeah it would be quite situational i'm sure.

    If I were someone you liked, but you were swamped with work as well, how would you answer? I would probably be like "i'd be glad to, let me just finish this first"

    If I were someone you didn't like, and you had a lot of free time, would you still say 'no'? well i guess it just depends. If they are really swamped and i'm not and the office is stinking up with the garbage, i'd be glad to get the trash out of there, no matter if i didn't like them. But if it seems like they are trying to order me around, then i wont.

    If I were someone you liked, but wasn't busy, would say 'yes'? this is a case where it really depends on how you ask and why you are asking and why you cant do it yourself, if you're not busy.

    If I were someone you didn't like, but was still incredibly busy, would you say 'no'? see answer to #2
    my replies are in bold.

    Interestingly now that i think back... i had a sort of passive aggressive situation with a bad roommate maybe like 8 years ago, where over time i'd gotten the feeling that she was expecting me to be her maid or something. Basically she came into the roommate relationship touting herself as a neat freak, etc and scoffing at why she was assigned a roommate when she's rather live by herself. I tried to assuage her, saying it'll be ok, we'll have a great time rooming together, it wont be so bad.

    So anyway, every time something was out of place or dusty or the floor wasnt swept etc etc, she'd walk around huffing and puffing and making little snide indirect comments. I would make my best effort to clean after myself (and her since it's the common areas) and take out the garbage when it was full, but finally a few months in, i decided to test her to see if she does anything as far as cleaning.

    so the garbage got fuller and fuller, and she just kept pushing it down, and scoffing. The kitchen floor got crumbier and crumbier. And she would just scoff and huff and maybe say something like "the floor is freaking DIRTY" and look at me accusingly. Finally things reached a breaking point, and I called her out on it. I ended up making a schedule with cleaning duties of the common areas, where we would alternate garbage duty once a week, and have to take it out at least once that week, and on the other weeks we would alternate vacuuming/sweeping duties, and have to do it at least once during that week. I probably should have come up with a schedule like that right off the bat when we became roommates, but you know, i would think people would be more reasonable than that and just be grown ups.
    Last edited by Suz; 07-14-2013 at 02:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I think another real problem IEEs may have is saying "no" to assignments. We like people to be pleased, and along with a poor ability to assess time/workload proportions, often end up take on way more than we can handle (at least I find it to be a real problem for myself).

    We then end up working ourselves into sickness/depression/burnout trying to please people, and stressing out when people are upset it's not done yet.
    This is so totally true. However I have learned that one the hard way and it happens to me a lot less. I mean knock on wood, because I will probably say yes when i should say no tomorrow. Odd, too, that we are Negativists, and yet we do this. Yet I agree I am a Negativists according to the Socionics definition. Perhaps IEEs are particularly "positive Negativists". I mean, people have have asked me if I am "always happy", or if I ever get mad... LOL. But I think Fi makes us keep those negative feelings to ourselves so we can process them. You or @applejacks said as much recently - that you like to keep sad/bad feelings to yourself).

    Particularly career-wise, I didn't say no for a long time. And being the only art teacher in a very large elementary school, I was continually asked to make things, for people, all kinds of visuals, posters, signs, etc. etc., you name it, because I could, and would, and I was the only artist in the building (I bet there were closet artists who didn't want to get stuck doing everybody else's stuff!). And I "had" to make everything exceptionally wonderful. So I found myself working longer hours than anyone, and I would be the last, last last one out of the building on a regular basis. (Like 7pm at night sometimes!). Then I got pneumonia... Isn't that like an I IEE, to not notice you are about killing yourself? So I don't want to do that anymore. And at the job I did have to learn to say no finally.

    So I learned. And I was real bad at it at first, and was about to give up and return to my familiar ways when I had learned somewhere some tip for people who can't say no. That is to never say yes right off; always say cheerfully, "I need to think what I can do! I will get back to you." Then I'd think it through, and then I woudl stress over how is a nice way to say no. At first I cringed and was too wordy and apologetic, but eventually I got better. It helped to notice that My colleagues already all knew how to say no (I was the youngest).


    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Interestingly now that i think back... i had a sort of passive aggressive situation with a bad roommate maybe like 8 years ago, where over time i'd gotten the feeling that she was expecting me to be her maid or something. Basically she came into the roommate relationship touting herself as a neat freak, etc and scoffing at why she was assigned a roommate when she's rather live by herself. I tried to assuage her, saying it'll be ok, we'll have a great time rooming together, it wont be so bad.

    So anyway, every time something was out of place or dusty or the floor wasn't swept etc etc, she'd walk around huffing and puffing and making little snide indirect comments. I would make my best effort to clean after myself (and her since it's the common areas) and take out the garbage when it was full, but finally a few months in, i decided to test her to see if she does anything as far as cleaning.

    so the garbage got fuller and fuller, and she just kept pushing it down, and scoffing. The kitchen floor got crumbier and crumbier. And she would just scoff and huff and maybe say something like "the floor is freaking DIRTY" and look at me accusingly. Finally things reached a breaking point, and I called her out on it. I ended up making a schedule with cleaning duties of the common areas, where we would alternate garbage duty once a week, and have to take it out at least once that week, and on the other weeks we would alternate vacuuming/sweeping duties, and have to do it at least once during that week. I probably should have come up with a schedule like that right off the bat when we became roommates, but you know, i would think people would be more reasonable than that and just be grown ups.
    Great story!

    I have the same automatic reaction to someone's grumbling - go fix/do to make it all better. But I have learned (took me a long time) that some people just grumble! Also there are others, and your ex-roommate might be one, who have an eye for a pleaser and take advantage.
    They are people who use people. I have had a tendency in the past to project my values on someone - since I won't use people, I assume others won't either. Then I learned I take an "innocent to til proven guilty approach." Now I am even more cautious, and stay alert with new persons for indications that they have real character, for times when I see they choose to do the right things when its not easy. Then I trust them. Til then, I just assume I don't really know what they might do when faced with a choose between right and wrong, hard and easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    This is so totally true. However I have learned that one the hard way and it happens to me a lot less. I mean knock on wood, because I will probably say yes when i should say no tomorrow. Odd, too, that we are Negativists, and yet we do this. Yet I agree I am a Negativists according to the Socionics definition. Perhaps IEEs are particularly "positive Negativists". I mean, people have have asked me if I am "always happy", or if I ever get mad... LOL. But I think Fi makes us keep those negative feelings to ourselves so we can process them. You or @applejacks said as much recently - that you like to keep sad/bad feelings to yourself).
    I've learned how to say no in the sweetest, nicest way possible. That way, I don't necessarily have to be a bad guy *bats eyelashes*

    Also, I retreat and hide when I'm sad, so that nobody has to witness it. It's almost as if I have to come to terms with what's creating my sadness before I'm ready to reach out to someone and talk about it. Although learning to power through this and be "OK" with feeling sad has been a challenge with some roommates.

    As for anger, I can't even remember a time when I was legitimately angry. Maybe borderline out of self defense, but it's been years.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    I've learned how to say no in the sweetest, nicest way possible. That way, I don't necessarily have to be a bad guy *bats eyelashes*

    Also, I retreat and hide when I'm sad, so that nobody has to witness it. It's almost as if I have to come to terms with what's creating my sadness before I'm ready to reach out to someone and talk about it. Although learning to power through this and be "OK" with feeling sad has been a challenge with some roommates.

    As for anger, I can't even remember a time when I was legitimately angry. Maybe borderline out of self defense, but it's been years.
    so how do you say no in the sweetest way?

    yeah when i'm sad, nervous, or overworked/tired, i also retreat into solitude in my apartment. it's my peaceful haven. sometimes it's not a good thing though, because i end up stewing in my own juices and get sadder and sadder. or more anxious about whatever it is i'm worried about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    I've learned how to say no in the sweetest, nicest way possible. That way, I don't necessarily have to be a bad guy *bats eyelashes*
    Youa re so IEE. Back in dating days before i was married I learned to say no in the sweetest possible way, too. Its an art, and it takes a lot of effort. However, I am sure you know. We IEEs have a reputation (according to Socionics) of giving the impression, in a conversation, say at a social gathering, of flirting or giving the idea we "want" more than we do, when we don't.. We were just trying to connect, because we genuinely like to connect to people. Different from "hooking up"!


    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    Also, I retreat and hide when I'm sad, so that nobody has to witness it. It's almost as if I have to come to terms with what's creating my sadness before I'm ready to reach out to someone and talk about it. Although learning to power through this and be "OK" with feeling sad has been a challenge with some roommates.
    Yes. Me too.

    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    As for anger, I can't even remember a time when I was legitimately angry. Maybe borderline out of self defense, but it's been years.
    I would have said so for most years of my life. However I remember back in those never-angry days hearing that "depression is anger turned inward". And that's bad for your health in more than one way. But I wonder if its hard for all of us IEEs to get in touch with our anger, a natural, normal human emotion. I have since learned to get angry, but its very rare, and it takes a lot, it has to be a clear offense, and still I express it in a controlled way.

    In fact, tonight, I am having one of those rare angry times. I am absolutely furious with my LSE brother. I am practically beside myself! I cant talk about it now, for the same reason as your sad, above. I am so mad it might take me quite awhile to talk about it. But I might write eventually because part of me is so offended at him that I want some understanding of how a LSE thinks! Because in the end I will want to excuse him...

    So he came tonight as he does once a week to relieve me to go to Mass without my mom from my 24/7 responsibility. Because of what was said before we left for Mass, I came home and went upstairs without saying hello or goodbye. Which shocked him because me not being polite is unheard of, but he SHOULD know why. He just has to use his brain. But I don't want him here next week. I am going to call my old SEE caregiver who will be happy to come and get paid to sit around while my Mom is in bed. And she will bill him. Only 2 more Sundays till I leave with Mom in tow to see my SLI, for a month. Meanwhile, I don't want to talk to LSE brother. I am going to tell him if he wants to talk to me, he can tell one of my other brothers (in other states) what he wants, and I will tell them the answer, and they can tell him, because I AM NOT TALKING TO HIM. Not till I feel like it. And that might be a LONG TIME!

    Because my peace really matters to me, and he disturbs it.

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NobleFool View Post
    LSEs are evil incarnate.
    YES!
    Just kidding. My brother is not evil. Just INFURIATING. I am just reading this on Activity relations:

    In communication it is better to not touch upon serious topics....

    Although overall interaction between partners is nice and easy, when it comes to fulfilling everyday duties and matters together, partners usually meet with many problems. Instead of solving the problems, Activity partners tend to give advice to each other on how to solve these problems, often affecting each others weak points... ..., instead of taking up the workload themselves.. Yeah,that happening. My SLI said tonight that he noticed, apparently from one of the few interactions I had with this brother when SLI was visiting, that this brother takes a fatherly, authoritarian approach to me. And that has a real bad effect when you are affecting the other's weak point. And when he has NO CLUE what I do for our mother. And he SHOULD!

    Anyway I think I might later ask you and @AbusrdEnough for advice/understanding on how you LSEs think. Sometime a lot later because I am going to treat myself to some isolation from him to cool off about this for as long as I want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    YES!
    Just kidding. My brother is not evil. Just INFURIATING. I am just reading this on Activity relations:

    In communication it is better to not touch upon serious topics....

    Although overall interaction between partners is nice and easy, when it comes to fulfilling everyday duties and matters together, partners usually meet with many problems. Instead of solving the problems, Activity partners tend to give advice to each other on how to solve these problems, often affecting each others weak points... ..., instead of taking up the workload themselves.. Yeah,that happening. My SLI said tonight that he noticed, apparently from one of the few interactions I had with this brother when SLI was visiting, that this brother takes a fatherly, authoritarian approach to me. And that has a real bad effect when you are affecting the other's weak point. And when he has NO CLUE what I do for our mother. And he SHOULD!

    Anyway I think I might later ask you and @AbusrdEnough for advice/understanding on how you LSEs think. Sometime a lot later because I am going to treat myself to some isolation from him to cool off about this for as long as I want.
    My brother is also LSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    so how do you say no in the sweetest way?
    I try to share my genuine interest in saying yes, but I also realize that I don't want to overcommit and underserve, so I think about my schedule and try to explain what might prevent me from following through. Otherwise I'd say yes to everything and end up feeling guilty over flaking out, which does nobody any good.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    yeah when i'm sad, nervous, or overworked/tired, i also retreat into solitude in my apartment. it's my peaceful haven. sometimes it's not a good thing though, because i end up stewing in my own juices and get sadder and sadder. or more anxious about whatever it is i'm worried about.
    I totally hear you on this, but being around people is also what pulls us out of it. It's almost like we need that time, but not TOO much of it, otherwise we'll spiral out of control. Or at least I do.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    This is so totally true. However I have learned that one the hard way and it happens to me a lot less. I mean knock on wood, because I will probably say yes when i should say no tomorrow. Odd, too, that we are Negativists, and yet we do this. Yet I agree I am a Negativists according to the Socionics definition. Perhaps IEEs are particularly "positive Negativists". I mean, people have have asked me if I am "always happy", or if I ever get mad... LOL. But I think Fi makes us keep those negative feelings to ourselves so we can process them. You or @applejacks said as much recently - that you like to keep sad/bad feelings to yourself).
    I think the same for EII's except for me it's backwards, EII's are "negative positivists". I think it might be because of Ti role, wherein I try to think of every possible contingency first, including the negative outcomes, before I let myself be truly positive, which underneath it all I am. For example, I might think, "yes, well this and this and this could go wrong, and that needs to be done, and where does that go, and how is this going to effect them", and so on. When in fact I know that no matter what happens, it will all work out in the end (with effort, because if I didn't put the effort out and things do not work out then I blame myself even if the results had nothing to do with me, then I get negative).

    I think a clear sign of a depressed EII is an over abundance of negativity for an extended period of time.

    Sorry to go off topic Eliza, your comment just struck a chord of an idea I had been throwing around lately.

    To the original post: how badly do you want it done? Do you ever find that because of Fi creative, you are judging your perceived lack of inspiration and motivation more harshly then in reality you are actually being? As in, what are others are thinking about your motivation as apposed to how motivated you actually are? I have two IEE friends who are very motivated, just not ALL the time. But when they are, mountains get moved. And then they lament about how unmotivated they are all the other times. Then I am sitting here thinking: "just chill out, mountains do not need to be moved every time, just do a little bit today, then tomorrow and the next and soon enough it will all get done. (of course I like things completed as well, so I can relate). I really notice this when they have to do a chore on their own. It's as though it would be fine if another person could share the load, then the IEE's feel inspired to work a long side them through thick and thin. But, when its all on their own, or has no one to "pat them on the back", then they lose interest.
    Last edited by wacey; 07-15-2013 at 05:19 PM.
    "Traffic lights and loneliness. Paper cans and tape cassettes. When the world feels like this. Static shocks and bitterness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    We IEEs have a reputation (according to Socionics) of giving the impression, in a conversation, say at a social gathering, of flirting or giving the idea we "want" more than we do, when we don't.. We were just trying to connect, because we genuinely like to connect to people. Different from "hooking up"!
    Story of my life.


    EDIT:

    @StridingStrider - your avatar photo! Handsome, but I need a smile out of you! Makes me want to clap my hands and do some oompa loompa cartwheels.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    @StridingStrider - your avatar photo! Handsome, but I need a smile out of you! Makes me want to clap my hands and do some oompa loompa cartwheels.
    You're not smiling either. Maybe closet SLI?

  32. #32
    applejacks's Avatar
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    @StridingStrider - Fixed!

    Your turn
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

  33. #33
    The Quiet Individualist Waster's Avatar
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    @applejacks

    . I hates chew.

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    @StridingStrider - YAY!!!!!!!! Look how happy!!!!!!!!

    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Too cute you two! Made me smile to lighten my not so light day today. Which included a search for my Mom who "escaped" while I was on the phone explaining my LSE brother problem to my EII friend... I gave up after much driving and searching and came home and she was here - a distant neighbor had found her and just brought her home.

    @Wacey, your comment was great. Thanks. That's an extremely interesting idea you have about the EII negative positivists! And I think it fits what I know of my EII friends!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wacey View Post
    ...To the original post: how badly do you want it done? Do you ever find that because of Fi creative, you are judging your perceived lack of inspiration and motivation more harshly then in reality you are actually being? As in, what are others are thinking about your motivation as apposed to how motivated you actually are? I have two IEE friends who are very motivated, just not ALL the time. But when they are, mountains get moved. And then they lament about how unmotivated they are all the other times. Then I am sitting here thinking: "just chill out, mountains do not need to be moved every time, just do a little bit today, then tomorrow and the next and soon enough it will all get done. (of course I like things completed as well, so I can relate). I really notice this when they have to do a chore on their own. It's as though it would be fine if another person could share the load, then the IEE's feel inspired to work a long side them through thick and thin. But, when its all on their own, or has no one to "pat them on the back", then they lose interest.
    These are all such accurate observations. And I have been doing better since I complained as I got the Lakein book fast and it immediately started to direct me, assuring me I can accomplish all I want with some tweaks and focus to my choices, and by doing a little bit every day. And what I have done so far is basically your EII approach you explain here.

    Its so true about being on my own being a part of my problem. I have really for so long put my mind into it being okay with being on my own, but now that I am in the "home stretch" as I will likely marry within the year, I now feel so sick of being all by myself in everything. When I am with SLI we do the work that needs to be done together, and help each other. And since its close to being my new life, I am impatient with the old one.

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wacey View Post
    Do you ever find that because of Fi creative, you are judging your perceived lack of inspiration and motivation more harshly then in reality you are actually being? As in, what are others are thinking about your motivation as apposed to how motivated you actually are? I have two IEE friends who are very motivated, just not ALL the time. But when they are, mountains get moved. And then they lament about how unmotivated they are all the other times.
    This is the story of my life.

    Then I am sitting here thinking: "just chill out, mountains do not need to be moved every time, just do a little bit today, then tomorrow and the next and soon enough it will all get done. (of course I like things completed as well, so I can relate). I really notice this when they have to do a chore on their own. It's as though it would be fine if another person could share the load, then the IEE's feel inspired to work a long side them through thick and thin. But, when its all on their own, or has no one to "pat them on the back", then they lose interest.
    Thanks this is very comforting...
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    It's not a lack of will; IEEs have lots of it. It's about perfectionism and avoidance of failure. Most of the time IEEs do not feel prepared enough for a task so they avoid it and start gathering information / resources related to it. Only when they feel like they've mastered something they will confidently go about it.

    If you want to reduce procrastination, try do stuff regardless of the outcome. It's the expectation that everything you do must turn out great what holds you back.
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

    You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life.
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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    It's not a lack of will; IEEs have lots of it. It's about perfectionism and avoidance of failure. Most of the time IEEs do not feel prepared enough for a task so they avoid it and start gathering information / resources related to it. Only when they feel like they've mastered something they will confidently go about it.

    If you want to reduce procrastination, try do stuff regardless of the outcome. It's the expectation that everything you do must turn out great what holds you back.
    so so very true....

    Thanks for saying it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    It's not a lack of will; IEEs have lots of it. It's about perfectionism and avoidance of failure. Most of the time IEEs do not feel prepared enough for a task so they avoid it and start gathering information / resources related to it. Only when they feel like they've mastered something they will confidently go about it.

    If you want to reduce procrastination, try do stuff regardless of the outcome. It's the expectation that everything you do must turn out great what holds you back.
    Isn't this a funny concept, though? We're far from perfectionists, yet we research as if we were. I guess more than anything, I'm uncertain as to whether or not I'll enjoy something, so I make sure that I can at least be "good" at it before I get involved.

    Also, on a random note, do you IEEs find that you typically have 10 - 15 tabs open on your web browser at any given point? (I currently have 16... work in progress, I say!)
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

  40. #40
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    Also, on a random note, do you IEEs find that you typically have 10 - 15 tabs open on your web browser at any given point? (I currently have 16... work in progress, I say!)
    Currently only seven. My computer has been running slow so I am begin conservative...

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