Hospitality

[applejacks]

Do you pay attention to hospitality cues or place importance any in them? Would someone practicing poor hospitality affect your impression of them (such as attending a party or trying to meet people within a pre-established group?)

Example: (This may sound like a rant, but I intend it to be more of an observation and pursue it out of curiosity)

I was invited to dinner last night with two new friends, both of whom knew the other since childhood. They were very kind and engaging with me for the first 10 minutes of conversation as we drove to a restaurant, but for the majority of the night they proceeded to tell inside stories between each other, and did very little to draw me into any subject of conversation.

I have to wonder if this is type related, manners, or simply lack of awareness. On top of that, I found myself genuinely trying to disassociate their lack of hospitality from them as individuals, as not to affect my impressions of them as I listened.

What's your experience?


---


Perhaps I've just moved around enough in my life to know the difficulties of making new friends. I'd like to think I'm extremely sensitive to displaying proper hospitality cues, be it at my home or when helping an outsider integrate within a new group.

But the fascinating thing that socionics (and marriage) have taught me is to remember that not everyone thinks like you, nor do they pick up on all the same cues. There may be other things I'm completely oblivious to, but this particular thing just seems to be so obvious to me.

[anndelise]

The inside stories they were telling, were these of experiences/events they had shared?

If so, they may have been trying to share those experiences with you through story, but, since you weren't there, certain parts of the story couldn't be transferred to you. And ifthey were reminding each other about parts of the story, or filling out the details for each other, that could easily have them looking at and talking to each other, inadvertently excluding you as the audience. Think of what it's like trying to tell about a sleep dream and how they're not usually straight forward nor easy to get across to someone else, especially why it stuck with you upon awakening.

If other, more detail please.

As for hopitality, I am aware that I suck at it. It requires too much planning and attention from me. I'm too easily distracted and easily forget things. Plus, the pressure to 'entertain' my guest is just too much for me to handle. I always score low on the Love Language's "Quality Time". At best I will pull out a cup/plate/napkin, show where the drinks and snacks are, and pull up a comfy chair for us to sit in. I don't feel comfortabe serving, preferring instead that they get what they want when they want it. Also, I would far rather be pursuing some kind of common interest together rather than sitting down across from each other chatting.

[ashlesha]

i'm not really good with hospitality. i move stuff aside if i have laundry or a couch on my purse. i offer a drink if i remember. thats about it. but i don't really expect much from other people when i go to their homes either. it feels more comfortable to be kind of informal about it on both sides and i don't mind having to ask for a glass of water. as for the inside stories stuff, i would try to at least keep the other person engaged in some way while doing it by turning and filling in the details or something. i might not be exclusively focused on them, but i wouldn't want them to feel stonewalled. basically i don't really care much about hospitality but i value not being a rude jerk.

[applejacks]

The inside stories they were telling, were these of experiences/events they had shared?

If so, they may have been trying to share those experiences with you through story, but, since you weren't there, certain parts of the story couldn't be transferred to you. And ifthey were reminding each other about parts of the story, or filling out the details for each other, that could easily have them looking at and talking to each other, inadvertently excluding you as the audience. Think of what it's like trying to tell about a sleep dream and how they're not usually straight forward nor easy to get across to someone else, especially why it stuck with you upon awakening.

If other, more detail please.

As for hopitality, I am aware that I suck at it. It requires too much planning and attention from me. I'm too easily distracted and easily forget things. Plus, the pressure to 'entertain' my guest is just too much for me to handle. I always score low on the Love Language's "Quality Time". At best I will pull out a cup/plate/napkin, show where the drinks and snacks are, and pull up a comfy chair for us to sit in. I don't feel comfortabe serving, preferring instead that they get what they want when they want it. Also, I would far rather be pursuing some kind of common interest together rather than sitting down across from each other chatting.

All great points, thanks for asking for clarification!

We were seated around a hibachi grill for Japanese food, and the two girls were on a corner. I actually saved the middle seat for the other girl, as I didn't want to seem rude, so that might have been my own doing. But unfortunately one girl's back was to me the whole time. Out of sight, out of mind, maybe? As for subject of conversation, they were asking each other about old friends, where they ended up, and then telling stories about those individuals. It usually started with "..remember the time when..", and referenced local places or subjects. I'm very capable of keeping up with any conversation, as long as I know what's being discussed, but I didn't have the slightest clue how to inject myself.

By pursuing a common interest, what do you mean? Doing an activity?

I think "Quality Time" within the Love Languages can be anything, though, not just "sitting and talking". But I understand you on the low score. I typically score higher in Words of Affirmation and Touch.

[Creepy-bg]

i'm not really good with hospitality. i move stuff aside if i have laundry or a couch on my purse. i offer a drink if i remember. thats about it. but i don't really expect much from other people when i go to their homes either. it feels more comfortable to be kind of informal about it on both sides and i don't mind having to ask for a glass of water. as for the inside stories stuff, i would try to at least keep the other person engaged in some way while doing it by turning and filling in the details or something. i might not be exclusively focused on them, but i wouldn't want them to feel stonewalled. basically i don't really care much about hospitality but i value not being a rude jerk.

^

[anndelise]

We were seated around a hibachi grill for Japanese food, and the two girls were on a corner. I actually saved the middle seat for the other girl, as I didn't want to seem rude, so that might have been my own doing. But unfortunately one girl's back was to me the whole time. Out of sight, out of mind, maybe? As for subject of conversation, they were asking each other about old friends, where they ended up, and then telling stories about those individuals. It usually started with "..remember the time when..", and referenced local places or subjects. I'm very capable of keeping up with any conversation, as long as I know what's being discussed, but I didn't have the slightest clue how to inject myself.

Yeah, her back to you pretty much puts you out of the conversation. Even if the other person looked up at you, the girl between you would have likely interpreted that as looking at her, or similar. This would've made it easier to have the type of conversation you described.

This is one of the reasons Richard and I stopped going to the dinners that a group we are part of would have each month. We always felt like outsiders, stuck with resorting to 'listening in' for our socializing. Blah.

By pursuing a common interest, what do you mean? Doing an activity?

Yes, something that holds our attention instead of turning the attention onto the other person. Talking and joking gets done as a peripheral activity, not as the main focus. Walking is the closest i can come to giving someone attention, but that is because the physical movement relaxes my mind. Though walking in a noisy area destroys my abiliy to listen/hear/focus. But like, I am seeing the value in knitting circles. But usually prefer something like ...say...going to a park to listen to a band. The band has the primary attention, the talking comes in spurts. Or playing a game...the game has the primary attention, but there is still socializing happening. Taking a class together, as well. And so on.

I think "Quality Time" within the Love Languages can be anything, though, not just "sitting and talking". But I understand you on the low score. I typically score higher in Words of Affirmation and Touch.

My understanding of quality time is that the other person has your primary attention, and they have yours. For example...one can be shooting hoops with a buddy. But if that buddy has you as their primary focus, they'll be standing around, holding the ball while they talk, wanting your attention on them personally rather than on the ball, etc. This would be a mismatch for someone who wants to focus on the more hands on activities involved, or who uses the ball as a way of decreasing the pressure to hold their focus on the other person.

[mu4]

These two individuals are closer to each other than you, and it probably happened that they are friends for a reason, perhaps there is simply a lack of compatibility somewhere or the lack of time together.

I think if someone gives you attention there is some sort of attraction, motive or interest in this interaction, otherwise it's just small talk pleasantries.

I try to be pretty good at displaying hospitality and such when I deal with people, but I'm not a particularly hospitable person. Most people just get my death stare. ^_^

Anyways, if you want to be the center of attention, sit in the center, that's how I like to do it when I want it. Don't sit at the side of the table, always at the head of it.

[applejacks]

Yeah, her back to you pretty much puts you out of the conversation. Even if the other person looked up at you, the girl between you would have likely interpreted that as looking at her, or similar. This would've made it easier to have the type of conversation you described.

This is one of the reasons Richard and I stopped going to the dinners that a group we are part of would have each month. We always felt like outsiders, stuck with resorting to 'listening in' for our socializing. Blah.


Yes, something that holds our attention instead of turning the attention onto the other person. Talking and joking gets done as a peripheral activity, not as the main focus. Walking is the closest i can come to giving someone attention, but that is because the physical movement relaxes my mind. Though walking in a noisy area destroys my abiliy to listen/hear/focus. But like, I am seeing the value in knitting circles. But usually prefer something like ...say...going to a park to listen to a band. The band has the primary attention, the talking comes in spurts. Or playing a game...the game has the primary attention, but there is still socializing happening. Taking a class together, as well. And so on.


My understanding of quality time is that the other person has your primary attention, and they have yours. For example...one can be shooting hoops with a buddy. But if that buddy has you as their primary focus, they'll be standing around, holding the ball while they talk, wanting your attention on them personally rather than on the ball, etc. This would be a mismatch for someone who wants to focus on the more hands on activities involved, or who uses the ball as a way of decreasing the pressure to hold their focus on the other person.

This was really cool, I'd subconsciously knew about where attention was directed during activities, but hadn't really explored that as far as as personal preference. It's cool that you recognize your preference for common interests, and it actually gave me an appreciation for knitting circles (which seemed like something old women did). I suppose I always prefer talking because conversations of depth increase my connection with someone, which is what I long for most.

Fortunately, my husband hates board & card games as much as I do. We both would rather sit and enjoy each other's or someone else's company than get caught up in a competitive game. I'm glad to hear Richard is on the same page as you. That must make bonding time easier for you two.

[Kill4Me]

You were the third wheel.

[lagerdemon]

Do you pay attention to hospitality cues or place importance any in them? Would someone practicing poor hospitality affect your impression of them (such as attending a party or trying to meet people within a pre-established group?)

Example: (This may sound like a rant, but I intend it to be more of an observation and pursue it out of curiosity)

I was invited to dinner last night with two new friends, both of whom knew the other since childhood. They were very kind and engaging with me for the first 10 minutes of conversation as we drove to a restaurant, but for the majority of the night they proceeded to tell inside stories between each other, and did very little to draw me into any subject of conversation.

I have to wonder if this is type related, manners, or simply lack of awareness. On top of that, I found myself genuinely trying to disassociate their lack of hospitality from them as individuals, as not to affect my impressions of them as I listened.

What's your experience?


---


Perhaps I've just moved around enough in my life to know the difficulties of making new friends. I'd like to think I'm extremely sensitive to displaying proper hospitality cues, be it at my home or when helping an outsider integrate within a new group.

But the fascinating thing that socionics (and marriage) have taught me is to remember that not everyone thinks like you, nor do they pick up on all the same cues. There may be other things I'm completely oblivious to, but this particular thing just seems to be so obvious to me.

People in small towns tend to know each other very well. I wouldn't say they were trying to be rude, but maybe they didn't know what else to talk about since you don't know the people they know. Perhaps they only talk about people due to lack of experience beyond their small town. It's very possible they can count on one hand how many times they've left the county.

[Iris]

That situation would have made me feel like a little bit of an outsider. Because I dont care for that left out feeling, I usually try to notice how my guests are doing when I'm having a party.

[anndelise]

This was really cool, I'd subconsciously knew about where attention was directed during activities, but hadn't really explored that as far as as personal preference. It's cool that you recognize your preference for common interests, and it actually gave me an appreciation for knitting circles (which seemed like something old women did).

Hey now...just cuz I'm "old"

Actually, I haven't felt comfortable in one yet...knitting circle that is, but I'm beginning to understand why people like them. This past year I have done some yarn crafts exploring, trying to see if there is something I could like from it. I've realized that I am more interested in learning something new than I am in keeping an activity as a hobby. I find yarn crafts rather boring without a tv on or an audio book. Which I think is pretty much what the knitting circles type gatherings provide. Drama, gossip, secrets, in depth convers over many gatherings. Many of them are...well..close knit groups, (Sorry for the pun) and still have outsiders and the "in crowd" to deal with. Blah.

Fortunately, my husband hates board & card games as much as I do. We both would rather sit and enjoy each other's or someone else's company than get caught up in a competitive game. I'm glad to hear Richard is on the same page as you. That must make bonding time easier for you two.

Richard is into board games, contemporary ones, not like monopoly nor such. Things like Arkham Horror, Axis and Allies, HeroClix, etc. These are totally not me, and he knows it, lol. I do try to find board games I could like because they are so important to him. But even then I am always altering it to make it not quite so competitive. I've even gone so far as to obtain a book for learning how to make our own board games, lol. He just rolls his eyes. But then, he also goes gaming with the guys once or twice a week, so thankfully there is not as much pressure on me to help him fill that need.

My daughter and I, however, have our best conversations when we play card games. But even the card games I like are nontraditional. Things like Moose in the House where you try to put moose into rooms of the other players' houses and try to set traps and close doors to keep Moose out of your own house. Or Frog Juice where you are crafting potions to play on another player, or Reverse a Curse to take potions off ya. They help her get into a relaxed mode (she's a very uptight person), which then helps her communicate more easily. She is very much a "Quality Time" kind of gal, and these card games are the closest I can come to giving her that. They do get boring rather easily, hence why I need cute themes to help keep some of my interest.

My personal preference is to be doing my own thing (usually studying something or writing) in the same room as them, with them doing their own thing (richard and his painting, my daughter and her crafting or video game playing). When in our room, richard and I might lay side by side, doing our own thing, but maybe feet or legs touching, or a reach out to lovingly scritch an arm or back.

[Iris]

My reaction to being a "third wheel" is to slightly think that the insiders are being a little rude or oblivious, but mostly I will be judging myself and thinking that I must be lame, or not worthy of being included. That's silly, but is a pretty accurate description of how I feel about myself in those situations.

[anndelise]

@Iris, same here, but with the addition of not wanting them to turn their focus on me and ask me questions, the answers of which usually only serve to add another layer of outsidedness to me. Catch-22

[applejacks]

When in our room, richard and I might lay side by side, doing our own thing, but maybe feet or legs touching, or a reach out to lovingly scritch an arm or back.

This left me with warm fuzzies.

[ClownsandEntropy]

I'm not sure if it's type related, although I can think of three Fe-ego friends who do this quite a lot: talking to each other primarily, quoting or referencing experiences they'd both shared, talking about things relevant to stuff they're doing. Then again, they all come from the same social group (friends since high school) so maybe that's more of a cause. That being said, even with new friends they make they tend to build up a reservoir of "in-jokes", and the SLE in their social group tries to spread out from these in-jokes ime.

I guess it's the conflict between whether you want to be hospitable or you want the conversation to flow naturally. Because the latter is easier, and I guess the reason people socialise is because they want to have a good time; to a certain extent if you become too hospitable then you also become artificial. On the other hand, being hospitable is good for the making friends and for the being a welcoming person and so on.

I imagine that I try to include people in conversations as best I can (#PoorConversationSkill #PoorConversationsKill) but then again maybe a) it's making me seem awkward and artificial and b) I don't actually include other people as much as I think I do.

Finally, it depends on the situation. If you're all going out together, it would be fair to make an effort to include other people. If you're at an event to be social likewise. Sometimes you are, though, the "third-wheel" and you just need to do a sneaky Facebook or something while being sidelined for most of the night.

[applejacks]

I guess it's the conflict between whether you want to be hospitable or you want the conversation to flow naturally. Because the latter is easier, and I guess the reason people socialise is because they want to have a good time; to a certain extent if you become too hospitable then you also become artificial. On the other hand, being hospitable is good for the making friends and for the being a welcoming person and so on.

Good point, I hadn't thought about that at all! You might see their interaction from an angle of "this is where you live now, and this is how we do things, so we're going to be natural around you and not treat you like a stranger", even though I might not yet get all references.

[InvisibleJim]

Hospitality? I'm not a fan.

[applejacks]

Hospitality? I'm not a fan.

But Jiiiiiiiiii-iiiiiiiiim...!!!

[InvisibleJim]

But Jiiiiiiiiii-iiiiiiiiim...!!!

Oh alright. I guess we can have a 'little' hospitality. I just dislike entertaining people I don't know and I much prefer spending time with individuals rather than groups.

[applejacks]

Oh alright. I guess we can have a 'little' hospitality. I just dislike entertaining people I don't know and I much prefer spending time with individuals rather than groups.

All who partake in this thread will now officially be greeted by Jim with a delicious cocktail.

[InvisibleJim]

All who partake in this thread will now officially be greeted by Jim with a delicious cocktail.

That sounds simply dreadful jacks.

Would we wish such angst on thread participants?

[applejacks]

That sounds simply dreadful jacks.

Would we wish such angst on thread participants?

[InvisibleJim]

More wine?

[applejacks]

More wine?

Aw, you're so good at this!



*steeple fingers* Ex-cellent...

[Kill4Me]

My reaction to being a "third wheel" is to slightly think that the insiders are being a little rude or oblivious, but mostly I will be judging myself and thinking that I must be lame, or not worthy of being included. That's silly, but is a pretty accurate description of how I feel about myself in those situations.

next time just be like stfu

[ClownsandEntropy]

next time just be like stfu

*Slap* *Slap* APPRECIATE ME!

[Kill4Me]

*Slap* *Slap* APPRECIATE ME!

get lost, nerd.

[mu4]

I think in any sort of group situation it's necessary to be somewhat deliberate if there are multiple egos to placate and deal with. As there are multiple individuals, a hierarchy emerges in the interaction, a form of hospitality is to look past the hierarchy and see that everyone is getting the social candy they're looking for. Good hospitality within a group is not just about giving people attention but facilitating the individuals within that group to give each other the social candy they're looking for.

In group situation things like getting everyone a drink or a snack can help facilitate the social interaction, everyone gets a little contact and between contacts they can talk to whoever they want. Asking about the food or trying to figure out what is coming next is also a good way to have these small moments of interaction, although very trivial, still keeps rapport between the individuals in the social situation. This is why dining is such a good social lubricant and a good way to network, date, and such social stuff.

I think the situation you were in simply was a poor situation, where you didn't offer anything to them and they didn't offer anything to you.

[applejacks]

I think in any sort of group situation it's necessary to be somewhat deliberate if there are multiple egos to placate and deal with. As there are multiple individuals, a hierarchy emerges in the interaction, a form of hospitality is to look past the hierarchy and see that everyone is getting the social candy they're looking for. Good hospitality within a group is not just about giving people attention but facilitating the individuals within that group to give each other the social candy they're looking for.

In group situation things like getting everyone a drink or a snack can help facilitate the social interaction, everyone gets a little contact and between contacts they can talk to whoever they want. Asking about the food or trying to figure out what is coming next is also a good way to have these small moments of interaction, although very trivial, still keeps rapport between the individuals in the social situation. This is why dining is such a good social lubricant and a good way to network, date, and such social stuff.

I think the situation you were in simply was a poor situation, where you didn't offer anything to them and they didn't offer anything to you.

But.. but I offer my friendship! I throw zombie themed nerf gun parties and make wicked bloody marys! Be my FRIEND!

[mu4]

But.. but I offer my friendship! I throw zombie themed nerf gun parties and make wicked bloody marys! Be my FRIEND!

It's actually terribly difficult to make real friends once one is out of school/college/etc. People in a majority scenarios have found essentially all the friends/companionship they're looking for, and what's left is either individuals with some neurosis or some complication which prevented such establishment of these bonds. There is also the collapse of prior relationships, such as divorce, moving and other life changing events. As one gets older friends become situational friends and such, such as socionics friends, bar friends, daycare parent friends, parent of child's friend friend... you see where I'm getting at...

[applejacks]

It's actually terribly difficult to make real friends once one is out of school/college/etc. People in a majority scenarios have found essentially all the friends/companionship they're looking for, and what's left is either individuals with some neurosis or some complication which prevented such establishment of these bonds. There is also the collapse of prior relationships, such as divorce, moving and other life changing events. As one gets older friends become situational friends and such, such as socionics friends, bar friends, daycare parent friends, parent of child's friend friend... you see where I'm getting at...

I know... but ZOMBIE THEMED NERF GUN PARTIES, hkk!!!!!!

Silliness aside, I realize it's human nature to not want to change things. I guess it's just disheartening when others don't want to invite new friends in as much as I do.


I'll just have to spend all my time and energy on my new socionic forum friends! Unfortunately, you all will not be able to benefit from my mad bloody mary skillz.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think I subconsciously sort of expect it in a way but for the most part, I view it as a motherly behavior and somebody that isn't your mother won't be practicing it, they will be expecting you yourself to make an effort to feel included or cared for. It's just not realistic or fair to expect the world to mommy you. But this also just reminds me that a lot of people who go in the "caring" professions aren't very caring at all, which annoys me. This is probably a different topic though but really, if you want to be a social worker or nurse or teacher then you should actually give a crap about other people.

[mu4]

I know... but ZOMBIE THEMED NERF GUN PARTIES, hkk!!!!!!

Silliness aside, I realize it's human nature to not want to change things. I guess it's just disheartening when others don't want to invite new friends in as much as I do.

I'll just have to spend all my time and energy on my new socionic forum friends! Unfortunately, you all will not be able to benefit from my mad bloody mary skillz.

I must say the whole zombie nerf gun and bloody mary thing is very enticing. I have a nerf gun even....

http://gearhungry.com/2012/08/nerf-n...hail-fire.html

So I am armed for this sort of thing.. zombies should fear me.

[applejacks]

I must say the whole zombie nerf gun and bloody mary thing is very enticing. I have a nerf gun even....

http://gearhungry.com/2012/08/nerf-n...hail-fire.html

So I am armed for this sort of thing.. zombies should fear me.

Impressive.


Say hello to my little friends.

nerfs.jpg

[mu4]

Impressive.


Say hello to my little friends.

nerfs.jpg

Ready for the apocolypse I see. ^_^

[FDG]

I think I'm fairly hospitable. I always try to have an extra bottle of wine or beer and some food for whenever it may happen that I invite someone. I also hate when people are completely excluded from a conversation, unless I see that they're comfortable with it.

If someone is kind of not hospitable with me, I'll get kind of pissed...I used to be more tolerant about stuff in general, but it doesn't pay off that much.

[Absurd]

To people who deserve it, I would say.

[Iris]

next time just be like stfu

Oh ah how amazing it would be if someone would rise up and say that for me. That person would probably be my dual!

[Iris]

Just want to add that occasionally, if I am actually one of the insiders, if I am under some stress or tired, that I am less likely to be inclusive of the third wheels, if the insider I am talking to is helping me chill out a little. Sorry.