Superstition: Extroverted Sensing or Metaphysic Hippies?

[Lao Tzunami]

Many of my friends are superstitious. Is it because I hang out with metaphysical hippies? Or is it socionics related?

More specifically, I have a lot of SEE friends and one SLE friend who have talked to ghost, feel energy vibrations from electronic devices, believe wearing an evil eye will ward off evil spirits, charge their crystals on mountain tops during a full moon and so forth. many of my friends are new-age-y but an equal number of them are studying the sciences. The dominant people I have known have all had a cute creative and spiritual side they play up.

I think especially of a girl in a painting class I took at my college a few semesters ago. She seemed very SLE (but maaaybe SEE) and was pretty cool. Her mom was a model and raised with that influence, she was currently the trophy girl for a local race way even though she didn't really like it. She wanted to be an art teacher and if that didn't pan out, a mortition. She made an effort to come across as a deep and spiritual person.

I care A LOT about spirituality, but not the fairy tale kind. I care about battling existential disrepair and living truly meaningful and authentic lives. I see our lives as a flow punctuating a deeper tension in the human condition. Even if their were elves living in my shoes, it wouldn't really matter to me.

Based on Model A, a base function will result in an suggestive function. The suggestive function is both weak and only has the one dimension of experience. Would this kind of individual be inclined to superstition, both out of a interest in the supernatural and a lack of understanding? Sort of how I half jokingly make everything a challenge (expressing my own suggestive function) even when it is silly?

The other way of looking at this is that SEEs have in their PoLR function, so are not inclined to ponder their beliefs in a particularly philosophic and logical light.

So my question:
Is superstition culturally compelled, or a possible trait among dominant people and/or weak people?

Also let me know if this reminds you of anyone you know personally :]

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Eh. I hesitate to chalk superstition up to a "lack of understanding" or weak ability to logically reason. What is and is not superstition can be very personal and therefore vary quite a bit depending on who you ask. For example, many of those things you mentioned strike me as superstitious; yet I believe in God and in spirits (and have experienced the spiritual side of things), and there are people who would say that I, too, am clinging to superstition.

Personally, superstition strikes me as a way to gain control over/influence circumstances that we see as otherwise being out of our control. Not everyone might see or define it this way, but that's what makes sense to me. I couldn't tell you who is or is not drawn to it, or if there really is a socionic element to it. I've seen type descriptions that imply certain types are less prone to it (LSE, for example). But again, that goes back into what one defines as superstition. My (probably) LSE father is incredibly religious, to the point where many people (other Christians included) want to throttle him.

[Lao Tzunami]

Eh. I hesitate to chalk superstition up to a "lack of understanding" or weak ability to logically reason. What is and is not superstition can be very personal and therefore vary quite a bit depending on who you ask. For example, many of those things you mentioned strike me as superstitious; yet I believe in God and in spirits (and have experienced the spiritual side of things), and there are people who would say that I, too, am clinging to superstition.

Certainly, superstition is subjective and based on your world view and philosophy. To me, superstition is a sort of folk lore, an unexamined belief. I know many people who don't share my spiritual philosophy (what ever the hell that is, I'm sort of in an existential quandary) but have good reason for believing what they do, even if I don't think they are right. To me, is often a search for truth and philosophic consistency. Since some of my SEE friends don't seem to be interested in objective truth, are they more likely to believe in mystical superstitions (like mystical stuff)?

Also, a mature religious belief, even if absurd, is different from feeling energy locked in crystals or chi powers. At least, to me it is. Like the difference between the ghost hunting shows on tv vs Gandhi or Mother Teresa actually devoting their life to a cause.

It may also be that I'm used to a more rational approach than most people. My family was very intellectual and scientific, in a good way.

[Esaman]

I do think Ni seekers are prone to such things and that weaker logic does not help.

[chriscorey]

As a Ni dominant it seems like I get accused of believing superstitious voodoo from time to time and the accusations usually come from Se/Ni people. I don’t know if I’m correct here, but it seems like since Ni is a weaker function for them, they are pretty easily freaked out by scenarios that are normal from my perspective. I admit sometimes I wield it to see what happens or how people will respond. Can I get a reaction out of them?

I would say on my end Ni seems to produce a kind of algorithm or pattern I can play with. There are times I can’t explain it, but that doesn’t mean there’s no explanation. I keep an open mind about it with an objective monocle handy.

One of my cousins is a scientist and posted this today on Facebook:

"The ideal scientist thinks like a poet and works like a bookkeeper."

I think it is a pretty awesome quote, thought I'd share.

I agree a lot with @Ryene Astraelis post too

[Lao Tzunami]

As a Ni dominant it seems like I get accused of believing superstitious voodoo from time to time and the accusations usually come from Se/Ni people.

Now that you mention it, a few of my friends are pretty superstitious, but always in a harmless intentional way. Like when we grab something to eat, one of my friends will only accept an odd table numbers and will request 27 because it is the perfect TV volume (I like 27 too because I like rubrics cubes ;] ). She also won't touch snakes because she thinks they are evil.

To me, that is playing with symbols and subjective meaning, not truly being freaked out because you think their are ghost living in your house. But maybe it is an / thing.

Now I'm curious, how do you instigate civil unrest? ;D

[chriscorey]

Now that you mention it, a few of my friends are pretty superstitious, but always in a harmless intentional way. Like when we grab something to eat, one of my friends will only accept an odd table numbers and will request 27 because it is the perfect TV volume (I like 27 too because I like rubrics cubes ;] ). She also won't touch snakes because she thinks they are evil.

To me, that is playing with symbols and subjective meaning, not truly being freaked out because you think their are ghost living in your house. But maybe it is an / thing.

Now I'm curious, how do you instigate civil unrest? ;D

I don't know. I'm not a sociopath. ;D

I have to have my stereo volume set at even numbers, but I'm pretty sure it's OCD. Genius

[DaftPunk]

Superstition is one thing that annoys me the most. I can imagine that people with Ni as 5. or 6. IE might be prone to that. IRL the most supersticious person i know is ESI

[bolong]

Yes, I know an LSI-Se (he's my bf now) who "called up spirits" during his totally wild and drunk college years. His college friends swore it was true, they talked to Marilyn Monroe and stuff.. I was skeptical, and we tried it one day. Nothing happened and I thought it was a big joke but later that night he woke up from a bad dream and said let's not do stuff like that anymore.

I mean he's totally down-to-earth, practical and all but this ghost spirit stuff has more sway over him than me. And I'm into all that Ni stuff, palmistry, Hinduism, reincarnation, I believe all of it. But not the occult...

[bolong]

Yeah, Se/Ni is pretty prone to that stuff. I knew some people a long time ago who tried to communicate with ******'s ghost and allegedly did succeed...

Sure but it has to be like Ni-hidden agenda or something that actually says they talked to Marilyn/******/Jesus' ghost. I mean I'm down to try this stuff for kicks but if it ever got to the point where I saw or heard something I think it would throw my whole ego block out of whack. I'd have to become a travelling gypsy fortuneteller to cope.

[Lao Tzunami]

I'd have to become a travelling gypsy fortuneteller to cope.

I have had the pleasure of knowing a few nomadic individuals and they are some of the best people I know. I would stay away from fortune tellers and most religious leader as they are liars and frauds.

[blackburry]

hahahahahahah NOOOO more people with the even number obsession. Not I but my ex used to have to have EVERYTHING on an even number. it sucked having to actually think about it... I'd go home and put everything on odds...sup bitch.


Also I like the unexplained, simply because it allows the mind to be a playground; however, I can't sleep for days after seeing a horrendously believable scary movie... and I don't like to summon spirits...just in case they are real...

Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.

[chriscorey]

hahahahahahah NOOOO more people with the even number obsession. Not I but my ex used to have to have EVERYTHING on an even number. it sucked having to actually think about it... I'd go home and put everything on odds...sup bitch.


Also I like the unexplained, simply because it allows the mind to be a playground; however, I can't sleep for days after seeing a horrendously believable scary movie... and I don't like to summon spirits...just in case they are real...

Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.

My ILE brother already does that. How original.

[InvisibleJim]

My ILE brother already does that. How original.

Just explain to them the mathematical proof that there are more 'infinite' numbers between 0 and 1 than there are in the set of 'infinite' real numbers (i.e. 1, 2, 3 to infinity).

Then ask them to sort the evens exclusively. Suddenly it won't be such an issue.

[chriscorey]

Just explain to them the mathematical proof that there are more 'infinite' numbers between 0 and 1 than there are in the set of 'infinite' real numbers (i.e. 1, 2, 3 to infinity).

Then ask them to sort the evens exclusively. Suddenly it won't be such an issue.

On this forum? Seems they're more into eating...

http://www.wikihow.com/Celebrate-Pi-Day

Hmmm still not sure they'll get that

[chriscorey]

Just explain to them the mathematical proof that there are more 'infinite' numbers between 0 and 1 than there are in the set of 'infinite' real numbers (i.e. 1, 2, 3 to infinity).

Then ask them to sort the evens exclusively. Suddenly it won't be such an issue.

Hmmm...Jim I've thought about this some more and it seems the more appropriate answer is "know thyself" If you know "yourself", then you don't even have to try. I don't really see a point in explaining it further.

[blackburry]

My ILE brother already does that. How original.

mmmmk.

I was joking anyways. but I'd have to zone out to NOT think about it b/c neurosis is kind of contagious when you're forced to give in to someone else's OCD.

[Beautiful sky]

Hi Sindri...

I think that Se who seek Ni (those things beyond the here and now or rather have one foot in the future) do value some form of the "other". I've often found some Se types stick to religions as dogma, a hard and fast rule, and others use it for convenience. I think any form of spiritual or religious experience for Delta is as a guide (ance) to a good/moral life or guidance of integrity and consistency of ones internal and external values.

Asking my Mom, an ILI she says that she believes that Jesus lived once, so she has a foot in the past as all N types do, beyond saying " I believe there's god and Jesus lived" she can't explain more about this faith of hers, her Christianity.

To us (me or some delta) Christianity was, is, a way of life. That means live with love, as humanly possible, respect life around you, don't spite your neighbor and don't be cruel to others. These are good values...sorry for the judgement of this

[silke]

Many of my friends are superstitious. Is it because I hang out with metaphysical hippies? Or is it socionics related?
...
Based on Model A, a base function will result in an suggestive function. The suggestive function is both weak and only has the one dimension of experience. Would this kind of individual be inclined to superstition, both out of a interest in the supernatural and a lack of understanding? Sort of how I half jokingly make everything a challenge (expressing my own suggestive function) even when it is silly?

I would think that most SLEs don't have any significant spiritual or religious beliefs, not until may be later in life. Most of the ExTx types that I can recall actually have a disparaging view of religion, spirituality, and mysticism and feel empowered enough that they didn't have a need for this.

This whole association between Ni = spirituality and mysticism doesn't work out in reality because there are many IEIs and ILIs around who consider themselves to be atheists. If their Ni-seeking duals are into spirituality and superstition, then they will be in for a shock, because their atheist Ni duals not only won't provide any but will also try to dissuade them out of such notions.

I can imagine there being some weak correlation between having spiritual beliefs and introversion/extraversion as well as thinking/feeling. Otherwise, whether someone chooses to believe or not believe in there being something beyond life as we are aware of it for the most part depends on the circumstances of their lives and their personal experiences and conclusions.

[ShadoW805]

Spirits exist. My mom has seen spirits her entire life, and had lived in houses where spurious have tormented her. My sister is the same way. Having a seance is one of of the WORST things you can do, according to Amy Allan. It's bad because not only are you fucking with the dead, doing aseance will open portals where both GOOD & BAD spirits will come to your home or office or wherever you do it at. C causing nightmares

[nigh]

Superstition has nothing to do with functions IMO. It has to do with fear and curiosity and all that.

[Beautiful sky]

Superstition has nothing to do with functions IMO. It has to do with fear and curiosity and all that.

and cultural background

I had my LSE friend read my palms, because he said he came from a gypse background and was taught it, after I typed him for the first time in 3 years I've known him

[blackburry]

Spirits exist. My mom has seen spirits her entire life, and had lived in houses where spurious have tormented her. My sister is the same way. Having a seance is one of of the WORST things you can do, according to Amy Allan. It's bad because not only are you fucking with the dead, doing aseance will open portals where both GOOD & BAD spirits will come to your home or office or wherever you do it at. C causing nightmares

Amy Allan?... are we supposed to know who that is.




uhh I love this keyboard. my fingers are sinking in so nicely. it's like a cushion.
i can just type and type... and type.

and type.

[chriscorey]

I still don’t know, but there was this dumb chick I used to talk to and she believed anything anyone told her. I had fun with it one day because she made the mistake of spreading rumors about me. It went like this:

Me: I took a hack saw and sawed my heel right off.
Dumb: oh my gosh did you go to the hospital?
Me: No, I want to just sit here and bleed it out.
Dumb: Did it hurt?
Me: No not at all. In fact, sawing my own heel off felt great.
Dumb: Really?

I believe in brain damage. It exists.

Disclaimer:

I have nothing against nor a bad opinion at all of people who actually believe they've seen ghosts.

[BlackholeRoad]

I used to be heavily superstitious. From a young age, I was a Christian/pseudo-Wiccan. My beliefs were honestly all fucked up. I'm an atheist now (not that I have anything against anyone who's superstitious). I think I was that way because I had so many ideas about my ethics and personal growth that I left my mind open for them all, and as I was challenged in those beliefs I began to realize that they didn't logically add up, and believing that by charging a rock with energy to feel like I was progressing was incredibly wasteful to my actual tangible growth as a human being, and that I didn't have to fall in with a religion to have a sound code of ethics. What brought me to superstition (my early rendition of FiNe) now leads me to seek answers about my behavior patterns and how to use my understanding to help others in a tangible way, hence my interest in Socionics. I think superstition is embraced in many ways and that it's just a part of humanity to an extent. Really, religion's always going to be alive given that those who follow it tend to manifest a lot of their hopes by acting through their religion, and in that it's very much real. I see well-established belief systems such as Christianity or Buddhism as a lot more practical than Wicca though (coming from someone who practiced in it at one point). All the power to impact the world, your immediate environment, the abstract forces often perceived within superstition, it's all in us. It's within the individual to tap into and manifest (I don't mean in any kind of crazy psychic way, I mean as in willpower, greater understanding, enlightenment, etc). Some need a catalyst for that, and I think that's perfectly fine, beneficial to a lot of people actually, I know Christianity definitely was a great framework for me to start with (and for others to continue with, like said religion can be used to wonderful effect). But to me, it's a shame that many don't work to refine their belief systems to also be logically consistent (in which sometimes you have to go ahead and abandon some altogether to achieve that, example being dropping Wicca for a different more practical religion). It's even more sad when they don't realize that it's not their religion that holds true power, it's themselves that hold the true power of religion, in my opinion. And it sucks to see people waste that potential on ritualistic lifestyles that emulate positive impact but achieve nothing, and feel good about it. They're sleep-walking, and they're selling themselves short.

That was a rant I'm sorry I hope I haven't offended anyone. It's just, it's obviously something I feel strongly about so I had to dump this somewhere and yeah here's the spot where I did that. I also kinda wanted to see how this is received and see what people think and whatnot. I mean, the topic is superstition right? If anything this offers a piece of EII perspective on what superstition can be to someone. Of course it'll differ between other EII's, but it'll help paint a general picture of the role of FiNe in superstition methinks.

[BlackholeRoad]

Whoa I just realized my rant was in the Beta quadra forum. For some reason I thought it was in general when I posted that. Probably because I was zoned into that whole thought process pretty hardcore when I wrote that. So yeahhhh if that's out of place and unwelcome given that this is the Beta forum (and I directly related the post to me being an EII) someone please express that and I'll delete the comment or it can be moved elsewhere or something.

[Beautiful sky]

Whoa I just realized my rant was in the Beta quadra forum. For some reason I thought it was in general when I posted that. Probably because I was zoned into that whole thought process pretty hardcore when I wrote that. So yeahhhh if that's out of place and unwelcome given that this is the Beta forum (and I directly related the post to me being an EII) someone please express that and I'll delete the comment or it can be moved elsewhere or something.

LOL

Do you know how many times I've done that?

[Absurd]

[Azure Flame]

I'm a christian.

so yes.

[Lao Tzunami]

Superstition is bullshit.

Do you think superstition is misdirected spirituality like violence is misguided aggression?

or is superstition separate from spirituality?

[Zenoa]

I see superstition as closely related to + often overlapping w/ spirituality. Basically, any time one introduces the notion that there exists incorporeal consequences etiological to corporeal actions (and/or vice versa)—e.g. sin, karma, luck, magical thinking, etc.—then this looks to me like superstition. It seems possible at the moment that one could have a spirituality divorced from superstition—i.e. a belief system which forgoes these sorts of causal attributions—but I haven't thought through it in depth yet.

So what happens after we die?

[Aquagraph]

Superstition is bullshit.

Bullshit can be used as manure.

[silverchris9]

So my take is that, yes, in some situations Se base/Ni suggestive can be conducive to superstition. In environments that tend to be very spiritual I can imagine a few things happening: weak Ni combined with strong Se leads people to think about spiritual things in physical terms; that is, treating the "invisible" as thought it has the same direct rules and laws as the "visible"---a sort of straightforward, action x leads to result y kind of thinking about spirituality, which I think can come off as superstitious. The other thing could be coming across maybe a more nuanced or developed idea of spirituality, and then, being immensely attracted to it but not quite sure how to integrate it into one's life, pull out just superstitious contents.

However, I think an Se-base person is just as likely to grow up with very little interest in superstition, especially if s/he grew up in an environment that wasn't very spiritual, that kind of dismissed spiritual things, or had a less spooky, more "religious" (traditions, acceptable and unacceptable behaviors, more focus on ethics that spirituality) upbringing. More focus on "how things really are." You might find that this Se-base person scratches their Ni itch more in the realm of psychology, of "thinking about how other people think," or maybe in something that requires very far-out strategic thinking, anticipating the moves of others and accounting for them/countering them before they occur.

Overall, I think that, speaking on the theoretical level, it makes sense that Se base/Ni suggestive would be conducive to superstition. However, whether or not that potentiality is actualized is almost entirely the result of circumstance, and what is valued (not socionically but socially) in the environments in which the individual spends a lot of time.