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    Default ESFjs confuse me

    My mom is ESFj to a t.

    How can you get them to be more calm and open up more in intelligent, reflective situations? She's always on the go, always taking care of people etc. and it's like you can't ever really get to know the 'real her' because she's so busy.

    She just wants to do everything that's accepted of society, but doesn't seem to have any deep meaning. Like totally shallow. She's caring, in a sense, but has a tendency to think that money is happiness.

    I don't mean to bad-mouth my own mommy. *sniff* I should be shot. =(

    I just want effective ways to get them to STOP already, instead of running around acting like they have to control everything. I can only catch her after she's been moving so hard she's zonked out. She always likes to push herself to the limit, and she does this even better than ESTps in a way because it's just so effortless for her.

    (You could flip this around against me, and say ways to get me to go out more but usually that's already been done and it would be nice if the extraverted would suffer in this area a bit, so their shoes would go on the other foot so to speak.)

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    Default Re: ESFjs confuse me

    Quote Originally Posted by SLeo123083
    My mom is ESFj to a t.

    How can you get them to be more calm and open up more in intelligent, reflective situations? She's always on the go, always taking care of people etc. and it's like you can't ever really get to know the 'real her' because she's so busy.
    That IS the _real_ her. There is not other her. Just accept it instead of trying to change her

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    go on a road trip with her? out to eat?
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    If thatís the way she is, she may not change. Some people are only interested in superficial things and it feels unnatural to them to have a deeper point of view. Though Iím sure there are some ways you could get her to open up to you.

    Spend the day with her, go on a walk with her and talk to her a little.

    Maybe you two could do some activities together (pottery classes, ect...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    If thatís the way she is, she may not change. Some people are only interested in superficial things and it feels unnatural to them to have a deeper point of view. Though Iím sure there are some ways you could get her to open up to you.

    Spend the day with her, go on a walk with her and talk to her a little.

    Maybe you two could do some activities together (pottery classes, ect...)
    Who is to say that what she does, thinks and feels is superficial? When I was 18, I thought sitting around with emo people dressed in black, smoking pot and having night-long conversations about Nietzsche, Kant and the Dalai Lama was DEEP. Years later, I still think it is interesting, but it is not any deeper than his mother being busy taking care of people. And depending on how you look at it, how much deeper can it get to take care of people? It seems as if intuitive types claim to be oh-so-deep and insightful in comparison with the shallow sensors. We shall overcome!

    As for spending time with her, taking her out to eat or something along those lines sounds like a good idea.
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    That IS the _real_ her. There is not other her. Just accept it instead of trying to change her
    This is probably the best advice I've read so far. She sounded like just about every ESFj I have ever met. I know you're an INFj, but I'd recommend reading the Analyst-Bonvivant Duality relationship as to why one is able move the other. It may provide insight as to how to get the ENFj to cooperate.

    http://socioniko.net/en/1.3.rels/index-rels.html

    My roommate (INFj) also had similar problems with his girlfriend (ESFj), except the INFj had an ideal way of how things had to be and tried to have things planned in advance. Since the ESFj was busy taking up whatever responsibilities that she could, the reality of her situation would often conflict with the ideals of his situation. One of the main remedies was actually myself (INTj) acting as their arbitrator. From my observations and experiences, sometimes what an ESFj needs is just help with the tasks. If you relieve some of the pressure in this work, it will make her a bit more compliable. She will appreciate the relief and you'll be able to take her out to dinner or a movie.
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    I meet ESFj probably a lot, though I don't become friends with them. I can't find the proper situation. But I know how they look, talk, behave, what makes them like you. So I have my own prototype of them in my memory. And because our attention is selective, it intuitively notices women from this type. Such way is called intuitive typing. We do it a lot probably because our mind wants to put everione into some solid stereotype.When meeting someone, we want to know where that person belongs. This method is not fool proof and diferent people can diagnose people diferently. But the elder you get, the more precide you will become with this method. One more thing to say is that though socionics doesn't have standardized methology for typing, people should test their hypothesis of who someone is with several diferent hypothesis. You may think she is ESFj when you see her on the street walking by with some nasty ESTp, but don't concider your diagnosis final. Watch how she behaves with diferent people. How she is when you are more intimate together. You may find out that she behaves very diferent and may-be more like some other type. If she is more like aESFj, then you may have to retype her.

    And an easy way to make them realize you, is by talking something abstarct, which is philosophycal and logical at the same time. ESFjs love people with deep knowledge and good skills to explain your thoughts cealry to others.

    They also like compliments. They may fall in love with someone just because that person made those to her. Specially they love when someone charactisizes them, like:'' You seem to be very emotional. People like this a lot of times adore very deeply music. Do you know what? I think when I will need an advice what song to listen, I should ask from you because I think you have an exellent taste.''

    BTW, not all ESTps are nasty. Everione can be like that. It's just ESFjs often fall in love with one and that sucks. They are both unhappy. ESFj becomes jelous and depressed. ESTp can't love her for a longer time and starts to find lovers for him, while being commited with ESFj.

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    Hmm, okay. Yeah I figured. She's just herself and people don't change that much in regards to their natural personality.

    But my INTj dad just brings out the best of her, which I like. She's bitching about something right now in fact but he's calming her down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    If thatís the way she is, she may not change. Some people are only interested in superficial things and it feels unnatural to them to have a deeper point of view. Though Iím sure there are some ways you could get her to open up to you.

    Spend the day with her, go on a walk with her and talk to her a little.

    Maybe you two could do some activities together (pottery classes, ect...)
    Who is to say that what she does, thinks and feels is superficial? When I was 18, I thought sitting around with emo people dressed in black, smoking pot and having night-long conversations about Nietzsche, Kant and the Dalai Lama was DEEP. Years later, I still think it is interesting, but it is not any deeper than his mother being busy taking care of people. And depending on how you look at it, how much deeper can it get to take care of people? It seems as if intuitive types claim to be oh-so-deep and insightful in comparison with the shallow sensors. We shall overcome!

    As for spending time with her, taking her out to eat or something along those lines sounds like a good idea.
    That was probably just my intuitive side talking. We do see things differently, and it can be frustrating at times. (Plus Iím still pretty young and havenít gotten past the angst teen years yet. )

    Quote Originally Posted by SLeo123083
    Hmm, okay. Yeah I figured. She's just herself and people don't change that much in regards to their natural personality.

    But my INTj dad just brings out the best of her, which I like. She's bitching about something right now in fact but he's calming her down.
    The magic of duality <3
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    If thatís the way she is, she may not change. Some people are only interested in superficial things and it feels unnatural to them to have a deeper point of view. Though Iím sure there are some ways you could get her to open up to you.

    Spend the day with her, go on a walk with her and talk to her a little.

    Maybe you two could do some activities together (pottery classes, ect...)
    Who is to say that what she does, thinks and feels is superficial? When I was 18, I thought sitting around with emo people dressed in black, smoking pot and having night-long conversations about Nietzsche, Kant and the Dalai Lama was DEEP. Years later, I still think it is interesting, but it is not any deeper than his mother being busy taking care of people. And depending on how you look at it, how much deeper can it get to take care of people? It seems as if intuitive types claim to be oh-so-deep and insightful in comparison with the shallow sensors. We shall overcome!

    As for spending time with her, taking her out to eat or something along those lines sounds like a good idea.
    Kim you are so funny. Did you smoke cigarettes too and listen to the Smiths? I did . . . hahahha :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    That was probably just my intuitive side talking. We do see things differently, and it can be frustrating at times. (Plus Iím still pretty young and havenít gotten past the angst teen years yet. )
    Oh, I know! I am sure I would have said the same thing back then and I am also sure that in different contexts, I still do! So I was reminding myself as much as anyone... :wink:


    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    Kim you are so funny. Did you smoke cigarettes too and listen to the Smiths? I did . . . hahahha Wink
    Hahaha, I smoked many cigarettes and listened to David Bowie and The Doors!
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    When ESFjs get upset, they usually tend to make me smile for some reason...
    Hmm, okay. Yeah I figured. She's just herself and people don't change that much in regards to their natural personality.

    But my INTj dad just brings out the best of her, which I like. She's bitching about something right now in fact but he's calming her down.
    http://socioniko.net/en/1.3.rels/index-rels.html

    By the by - great link. I over looked that. It really pointed out that my grandparents are totally ISTj / ENFj. For the longest time I was trying to figure out if my grandfather was an INTj or an INTp, but he is neither. ANd my grandmother has a huge N side to her. The arguing bit makes great sense, too, .

    .... perhaps another reason why duality is so important -- out of that entire side of the family, only their daugher is also still married. (ISTj husband ((just like her dad)), and INFj wife)
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    ESFjs come in many different varieties imo. My aunt is that kind of esfj (the rush kind) and unfortunately I cannot give her any advice on her situation as if she did not rush around her life WOULD collapse (because of various things that have occured). It is quite sad really. Typically I just distract those esfjs from whatever they are doing without letting them realize it in order to get them to calm down. Also they are often disorganized because of their hectic pace so when I am around them I help them out in little ways like minimizing traveling time for them by planning more efficient routes or something. The non-rush esfjs however tend to be much more organized and on top of things than I am.

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    Mmm..... I've noticed this shift in things, actually........


    After the divorce, one ESFj I know turned INTO a 'rush' ESFj. She really seems to be spreading herself thin nowadays. Beforehand, she was much more casual...

    so I wonder if it is a security thing for the ESFj. If an ESFj feels they need to do alot more - that there core of people is somewhere else now - then they will rush to spend time in that way with those people. But if the core is stable and close, like a family, perhaps the ESFj can relax a bit more. Does that sound right?

    Or is it more a subtype difference?

    The non-rush esfjs however tend to be much more organized and on top of things than I am.
    Hmm - Perdo: in your experience, are those the more anal kind, or the more easy going kind of ESFjs that are that way, the non-rush way? Or if that is not a good dichotomey, could you designate things that would highlight the difference between these two types of ESFj?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    i would agree that they respond to critical situations with a lot of activity whether or not it is required. sometimes i think they just do this to a) forget their problems 2) expel nervous energy.

    both tend to be more organized than I (as I am not very organized) however the kind with day planners, appointment books, and who write notes on the calendar seem to be the more anal "business-like" sort. i sometimes confuse them with estjs.

    sidenote on 'rush' esfjs. they do seem like they will fall apart if they are not moving. sort of like a rock skipping over the water. when it slows it sinks.

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    Default Re: ESFjs confuse me

    Quote Originally Posted by SLeo123083

    How can you get them to be more calm and open up more in intelligent, reflective situations?
    Take them out for a lunch. Talk. If they trust you enough, they'll start showing their more reflective side; eventually you can direct the conversation into something "intelligent" and "profound." You will be pleasantly surprised.


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    try not to be too negative when they start talking about some bullshit theory of theirs... just calmly and kindly expand the concept in your direction instead of refuting what they've said. they enjoy that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    try not to be too negative when they start talking about some bullshit theory of theirs...
    The same goes for any type.
    ďLet us forget with generosity those who cannot love usĒ
    ― Pablo Neruda

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    very true

    I think really ESFjs like being encouraged to talk about their bullshit theories though. They like to tell pointless stories, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    very true

    I think really ESFjs like being encouraged to talk about their bullshit theories though. They like to tell pointless stories, too.
    You are possibly the worst perpetrator of typism EVER.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    yeah, I do tell pointless stories. It's not the same type of thing though... it's hard to explain. I tell pointless stories to amuse myself. They actually think they're amusing others!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    yeah, I do tell pointless stories. It's not the same type of thing though... it's hard to explain. I tell pointless stories to amuse myself. They actually think they're amusing others!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    very true

    I think really ESFjs like being encouraged to talk about their bullshit theories though. They like to tell pointless stories, too.
    You are possibly the worst perpetrator of typism EVER.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    ahahahahahhahaha I read your post wrong

    I thought you were saying that I tell pointless stories... anyways...

    yeah, I am typist :wink:

    only when I'm irritated with someone though
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    Default Re: ESFjs confuse me

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by SLeo123083
    My mom is ESFj to a t.

    How can you get them to be more calm and open up more in intelligent, reflective situations? She's always on the go, always taking care of people etc. and it's like you can't ever really get to know the 'real her' because she's so busy.
    That IS the _real_ her. There is not other her. Just accept it instead of trying to change her
    I came accross this thread and agreed wit hthe above post very much.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsb'07
    They [ESFjs] also like compliments. They may fall in love with someone just because that person made those to her. Specially they love when someone charactisizes them, like:'' You seem to be very emotional. People like this a lot of times adore very deeply music. Do you know what? I think when I will need an advice what song to listen, I should ask from you because I think you have an exellent taste.''
    I actually think that compliments like "You're smart" or "That was clever" are better for an ESFj that is feeling down. Those compliments work on the Super-Id. Ego compliments are probably better in general, though. (This applies to any type, I think.)

    Praising an ESFj's taste (Si) seems strange to me. For ESFjs I usually direct Ego compliments to the leading function. Craftsmanship is an exception to this; such as if an ESFj makes a work of art personally. Maybe it's because "taste" is somewhat impersonal to an ESFj; it's Si without Fe. It could be more appropriate for ISFps.

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