somebody said the other day that a vagina and a penis are opposites and it got me thinking.
maybe this is a stupid question, but humor me.
This is utter bollocks. Don't even mutilate what you call "philosophy."Originally Posted by William
In a philosophical sense, yes. Light cannot exist without darkness. Yin cannot exist without yang. If there were no darkness, there would be no basis for 'light' because there would be nothing to compare it to. Male & female are inherently designations for a comparison in gender. Without one, the other designation wouldn't be able to differentiate.
So yes, they are opposites. Not opposite in the sense that they are 'against' each other. Opposite parts of single whole. Opposites in the story of life.
I'm thinking about reporting your post to God as well. He's better equipped at dealing with madness like this...
I'm going to post later, have to ride on my fiery warhorse to another city, lungs. Hopefully I'm not going to get blown of the street again and bless you with my 'presence' in this thread.
What kinds of males and females do you have in mind?
In terms of anatomy the human genitals need to be complementary since penetration is necessary for this particular method of impregnation. So that's a question of semantics: opposites, complementary, both/either/other? I think they are as they are and the word used to describe their relation to each other says more about the person who chose it.
How closely do you think genitals and the person carrying them are interlinked? (They are imo, hormones and all, but how much and in what areas/circumstances?)
In terms of Yin/Yang it, from wikipedia:
"is used to describe how seemingly opposite or contrary forces are interconnected and interdependent in the natural world; and, how they give rise to each other as they interrelate to one another. Many natural dualities (such as male and female, light and dark, high and low, hot and cold, water and fire, life and death, and so on) are thought of as physical manifestations of the yin-yang concept.
Yin and yang are actually complementary, not opposing, forces, interacting to form a whole greater than either separate part; in effect, a dynamic system. Everything has both yin and yang aspects, (for instance shadow cannot exist without light). Either of the two major aspects may manifest more strongly in a particular object, depending on the criterion of the observation."
So Yin/Yang refers more to things being such a dynamic interrelation than to specific dyads.
Some such dyads are Yang being an active, forward (as in being forward with your intentions, not the literal direction afaik,) direct, sunlit, above-ground, dry kind of force and Yin being a receptive, indirect (as in go around the obstacle rather than headbutting it,) darkened, below-ground, wet kind of force. (To give you an idea of the use of such associations to describe the works of "natural principles" check the table on the wiki for the five phases.) The relevant dyad here is Yang as male and Yin as female, which comes from the understanding that male is the fertilising principle and female is the nurturing principle. This particular understanding is also reflected in indigenous rituals like digging a trench and dancing around while shoving spears in it.
As for the whole social creatures, nature-vs-nurture shebang, that's for another day, unhelpful as that may be to you. X| ^^"
Reason is a whore.
I don't think they are the opposite. I know woman who are more similar to me than many men(not in an optic way).
maybe it depends on if you think of "man" and "woman" in terms of abstract ideals or not.
before i made the thread and i was thinking about it, the yin & yang concept is what came to mind for me, too. but i kept second guessing, maybe because men & women in their real flesh & blood manifestations aren't just balls of masculine and feminine energy with penises and vaginas. so yeah maybe it just depends on what kind of perspective you take (real or ideal).
when the person (from here, but idk if they wanna be dragged into it lol) said penises and vaginas were opposites i asked why and they mentioned the mechanics of penetration. but then a vagina and a banana could be opposites. its really more of a conceptual thing i think.
true a asshole and a penis could be the oposite.
I don't like it to put people in roles for me ying & yang is not about ender i know relationships where the woman is more the yang and the man more yin.
I wonder if such discussions ever influence people's meatspace behaviour. Or change any opinions?
@vagina'n'banana and penis'n'asshole
Reason is a whore.
depends on how receptive they are to begin with. like that psychological mechanism where people with strong opinions just become more staunch about them when faced with opposition.
change takes some time to grow roots regardless. if discussions here were influential i'm guessing it would be in combination with other things in that persons life.
Simon Baron Cohen's pet hypothesis is that autism (which is characterized by a lack of empathy[EDIT **] and an obsession with systems) is an extreme manifestation of the male brain.
Elsewhere, he calls the male brain 'Systematizing' and the female brain 'Empathic'. There is also a 'Balanced' brain that is characterized by both, as these categories aren't absolute but lie on a spectrum.
Individuals can lie anywhere on the spectrum. A woman can have an S brain and many women do; women as a group, however, have an E brain. Equally, many men have an E brain even though the majority of men have an S brain.
[EDIT]** not entirely a lack of empathy because he divides empathy into two categories: Cognitive and Affective empathies. Cognitive empathy involves the ability to infer what others are feeling, whereas Affective empathy is the desire to respond appropriately to other people's emotions.
Autists typically score low on Cognitive and high on Affective, meaning that they can't infer what others are thinking but desire to have the normal, reciprocal emotional responses anyway.
Psychopaths experience high Cognitive empathy and can tell what others are thinking / feeling, but score low on Affective meaning that they don't care about matching it. That combination of insight and callousness is what allows them to so easily manipulate people.
Last edited by xerx; 06-14-2013 at 03:13 PM.
Off-topic, but there's a theory-theory that autism and schizophrenia are "opposite" diseases, resulting in brain overgrowth on the autism side and brain decay on the schizophrenia side. It seems intuitive that empathising/systemising captures the normal side of each phenotype (broader autistic phenotype & schizotypy).
Re: yin and yang, in traditional Chinese philosophy, everyone (male or female) needs to have a balance of the two in order to be healthy. Yang =/= male, and female =/= yin exclusively or else we'd be cartoon characters or extremely psychotic. They are also not thought of as opposites, but two aspects of a singular whole. Edit: I just realized @GuavaDrunk already explained this better than I just did. I really should read slower lol. Carry on.
^This.
Last edited by Animal; 06-14-2013 at 04:33 PM.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
I do not see men & women as opposites, but instead complements.
It's how a book is to a book shelf, oars to a rowboat, or bullets are to a gun...
Yes and no? Opposite sexes so yes same species so no. Met some guys who have seen more opposite to me than females.
I wouldn't say opposite since that seems quite simple to work through, at least in theory. Different.
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
you mean like matter and antimatter?
certainly with opposite outcomes
Last edited by malna; 06-14-2013 at 10:07 PM.
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
In my opinion: males and females are so fundamentally similar that any forced macho bravado to prove the opposite is laughable.
It seems like women are always complaining about men, because a irresolvable conundrum has been established: Be A Man but don’t be That Kind Of Guy. Desire us sexually, but not just for sex, treat us like an equal, but Take The Lead. It's pretty stupid.
In being a human, neither sexuality nor behaviors need exist along a binary. In interacting with another human, and it’s not about who’s The Man and who’s His Girl. We all want to be valued whether or not we are confident and funny that day. We want to be understood that just because we sound sad, negative, and cynical right now, that doesn’t have to define us. Sometimes we want to talk about it, and sometimes we don’t.
We're humans, with philosophical viewpoints. Life's hard and ultimately women need to stop trying to paint over the shittiness and the lustfulness and confusion and maddening darkness of being a human with some romantic narrative for our lives that they borrowed from an inane romantic comedy.
(my rant for the day... I hear this bs with all the convos I have with my coworkers about their dating lives/relationships... and I see it again on FB when they complain about it...)
Correcto, you defended me and yourself I think up to a moment. You stopped and chose a side, then. No worries though, I'm like Allah - merciful and kind -, so everything will be forgiven.ESPECIALLY when I defended you the past couple of days from being called a "troll".Doesn't make me feel like defending you again.
There wasn't any kind of insult in that post. I just wrote it is bollocks.Perhaps if you disagreed with my post, you could say so when you have more time to type out a fuller answer, so you don't insult someone and leave them confused.
This is some kind of Western/New Age bollocks - it is westernised I mean. Just a (mis)interpretation launched at the Western consumer market. Nothing you wrote pertains to the Eastern Yin and Yang, so making some kind of analogy(?) to males and females it utterly flawed and bound to fail.
1. Yin can exist without Yang,
2. Yang can't exist without Yin,
3. Yin and Yang aren't dual halves of some whole.
Seeing this is that gender thread re-visited, differences between two sexes can be looked for in neurology.
No. Unfortunately, the controversy of the past "femininity" and "masculinity" seemed to emerge from the idea that someone, somewhere, believes them to be opposites.
Just because two things are complementary parts of the same whole doesn't mean they are opposites.
Does this look like a pare of opposites to you? It doesn't to me.
If anything, it just means that females are more genetically complex.
The trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others, and who is always duped himself.
It probably depends on what text you're looking at, but this indicates to me contrary to what you're saying:
42.1 The Tao gives birth to one, one gives birth to two, two gives birth to three, three gives birth to ten thousand things
42.2 ten thousand things with yin at their backs and yang in their embrace and breath between for harmony
42.3 what the world hates to be orphaned widowed or destitute, kings use for their titles
42.4 thus some gain by losing, others lose by gaining
42.5 thus what people teach I teach too, tyrants never choose their deaths, this becomes my teacher
Tao te Ching, tr. Red Pine
A less literal translation:
The Tao begot one.
One begot two.
Two begot three.
And three begot the ten thousand things.
The ten thousand things carry yin and embrace yang.
They achieve harmony by combining these forces.
Men hate to be "orphaned," "widowed," or "worthless,"
But this is how kings and lords describe themselves.
For one gains by losing
And loses by gaining.
What others teach, I also teach; that is:
"A violent man will die a violent death!"
This will be the essence of my teaching.
tr. Gia-fu Feng and Jane English
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
So are people with Down syndrome - they have an extra copy of chromosome 21.
If anything, it just means that females are more genetically complex.
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
Hey, well complex doesn't equal more efficient.
The trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others, and who is always duped himself.
What is Yin and what is Yang according to you, then?
What you posted states clearly that when both Yin and Yang go against each other, Yang is a false path. It doesn't say what they are.
Great post xerx, this topic could deserve it's own thread. I have some comments to make in these areas but prefer not to derail.
I am glad i watched the vid you posted as i have heard mention of the extreme male brain in relation to autism and find it highly unlikely. He did however mention a lot of interesting channels running off his river. And seemed to be open to new hypothesis. I have wondered a great deal about brain gender in regards to autism but i seem to come to an alternative conclusion. Anyway...enough for now.
Male and Female ... i don't see them as opposite at all...slight variations, some crossover, would be a lot more ...mixture between nature & nurture.
Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.
In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.
When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.
So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.
InvisibruJim
I think the idea was those mechanics influence psychology.
I don't really know what philosophy has to do with anything here, especially Yin and Yang, not to mention Lao Tzu...
When I majored in stuff I had this class called Political Philosophy and I can't really find anything to support the claims of Yin/Yang and the alleged link between genders...
Of course, there is a link between Lao Tzu and Machiavelli, and that link is called stupidity when it comes to people associating them both - those two philosophers are, actually, total opposites but they were both men...
Anyway Animal:
Yin is and always has been passive, it's a pure thought, an idea, whereas Yang is active and always has been. A silly example showing the difference between those two would be you thinking about world domination being beta (ahem). This is Yin as long you do not act upon that idea.
Yang comes into play when you actually go out and and materialise that idea you had/have by simply making it happen, by building, by acting in the real world.
This is exactly the difference between Yin and Yang. You having an idea means you have an idea and your ideas can exist independently of you making them reality. Hell, you can easily do nothing. Yin can exist without Yang.
Yang can't exist without Yin. You can't do something without thinking prior about it. It's self-explanatory.
Yang can be even words you utter. Yang is the realm of symbolism as well - figure of Christ on Cross is Yang for example. Organised religion is Yang. This forum is Yang.
So yeah, that New Age crap that has been posted on here can go down the drain, but you all can feel free to dumb yourself anytime you want.
Last edited by Absurd; 06-14-2013 at 09:47 PM.
Just a second. You're aware that "=/=" means "is not equal to", right? Because otherwise, you just wasted a lot of words agreeing with me.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
I know, but it is not about equality/not equality as well. As long this thread is about "opposites" one can say females are not equal to males wanting to play with Yin and Yang and apply it incorrectly, which simply would destroy some members' notions between females and males they want to avoid once again. Not to mention you would be back in that circle arguing about Yin and Yang being equal or not - it never was a matter of equality/inequality between them both. Not unless you follow the Western version of course...
Western version calls Yin evil and Yang good. Of course, they are both not equal to another now...
Besides, equality is egalitarianism and it is completely misunderstood. I've seen people argue about equality (on this site as well) for and against that isn't even equality or just a watered down version bearing no resemblance to what it really is.
Last edited by Absurd; 06-14-2013 at 10:07 PM.
Turn your lady inside out.
A man appears!
Reverse the procedure to reach normality.
Read my first post again.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
So, 'inverse' rather than 'opposite'?Turn your lady inside out.
A man appears!
Reverse the procedure to reach normality.
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
I did and replied in my second post. Second post after the first.
-2 vs +2
-i vs +i
Okay. I don't know enough about them to define yin/yang with any confidence. I just wanted to clarify that yin/yang were not male/female, which I think is the same thing as you're saying.
From what I understand, yin precedes even thought. Thought is yang because it is manifest; it's a movement outward. Yin is unmanifest and out of which we derive thought. According to what I've heard, perception (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching) is yin; the perceived and any manifest result of that perception (including thought, feeling/emotion, and action) is yang. When Lao Tsu says "Tao gives birth to one, one gives birth to two", two are yin and yang. The intersection of yin and yang is three (us). So you're correct in that yang cannot exist without yin, because we cannot have a thought without perception -- thoughts are experienced as mental sounds or sights or sensations. Yin is the medium through which yang emerges.
"Dark and unfathomable is yin. Bright and perceptible is yang. As soon as we are born, we all turn our backs on the dark and unfathomable yin and turn toward the bright and perceptible yang. Fortunately, we keep ourselves in harmony with the breath between." -- Lu Hui-ch'ing (9th century)
But again, I've only read a minimum of Chinese philosophy.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
These are opposite but I felt as if your method was more likely to result with the reversed (15 vs 1/15) gender. As for the complex numbers, I'm sure everyone was laughing hysterically at your joke on me; bothered to count and -i happens to be both the opposite and the reversed number to i.
How do you feel about your gender through a positive lens, though?
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
I don't really like people.
Some are okay I guess.
See, I'd say: "I like people. Some are less than awesome, I guess." - the lens works!
(And yes, yes I did originally intend to ask about your sex through a positive lens. I caught on with that.)
Last edited by malna; 06-14-2013 at 11:59 PM.
I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.
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