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Thread: self development within the socionics theory

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I already said "you should" is a suggestion of moral right way to be, which is what I say, not "You must."
    This amounts to the same thing does it not? Saying you should and saying you must has equal force, the person decided anyway, however wether it is should or must, you will still judge them based on your own arbitrary distinction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    This amounts to the same thing does it not? Saying you should and saying you must has equal force, the person decided anyway, however wether it is should or must, you will still judge them based on your own arbitrary distinction.
    I had a similar reaction when I first read what she wrote. To me they feel like someone telling me what to do. But...

    http://english.stackexchange.com/que...onable-command
    The word should is used to indicate that among several possibilities one is recommended as particularly suitable, without mentioning or excluding others; or that a certain course of action is preferred but not necessarily required; or that (in the negative form) a certain course of action is deprecated but not prohibited (should equals is recommended that).
    Must, on the other hand implies more conviction and determination. It also excludes other possibilities. And that a certain course of action is required, not just preferred.


    Now, with that said, many people use "should" when they really mean "must". One way of checking that is to see what kind of consequences follow when you say no to someone who tells you what you should do. How do they respond to you telling them no, or otherwise refusing their "suggestion"?

    (Kind of like when a parent 'asks' a child "would you get that for me?" If the child doesn't, does the parent further insist or punish the child? If yes, it wasn't a question, it was a command couched as a question. ime, similar often happens with "should".)

    Edited to add: but I totally agree with the last part of what you wrote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I don't disagree with this point as people's individual circumstances shape a lot of how they view the world and what they want out of it despite being ABLE to do the things they do, which is explained by Socionics. That ABILITY IS WHAT SOCIONICS TRIES TO EXPLAIN.
    It could be argued that psychological preferences are abilities in themselves. Is this what you are arguing? Or are you arguing that psychological preferences directly dictate practical abilities to do things removed from the psyche? If you are arguing the former, than I agree with you. If you are arguing the latter, I would disagree


    None of those platforms explain what the person is able to do. And, cynics of Socionics expect too much from it and for whatever circumstances they don't get it, they turn around and blame Socionics for not having provided that ideal circumstance for them. If they are, however, careful, patient and considerate of the world around them, of people and relationships, I don't doubt that they can find that eventually.
    I think that once again, you are rushing to conclusions. What platforms do you think I'm referring to? By creating this strawman, you've exposed yourself as being very biased in favor of the idea that socionics is the only "way". You explicitly made this clear, not only in writing but in action.
    The trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others, and who is always duped himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I'm sharing a personal story that may help people understand what it means to be yourself and/or, it this is how you look at it, self develop.

    Before knowing Socionics, my typical self was as Jung described shrieked away from objects, at the intensity of them, hence needed people and things to approach me smoothly, gently; I was passionate about my moral beliefs and how I judged the way others viewed things and their expression of things (I came to correct people's beliefs and adjust them according to how I saw them), so I was very much "I believe" "You should" "It would be right if x." Can you imagine how much energy one spends regulating thoughts for others when you are being at the center of life's experience? Too much. You begin to feel resentful, alone, because really no one else feels like they are like you and truly most people are not. They are just experiencing those things that provide them with pleasurable experiences. I didn't understand those differences about myself. I never evaluated my self in terms of my way of thinking being fair or not, they were "me." So, here comes Socionics saying "you are a judging rational type, who conveys feelings of love (as you feel them), morality, etc. and there is Joe and he sees life a bit differently from you." You begin to think, wow, I was never out to see Joe as he is, but to make an impression of myself on him. Joe has been himself all along, living the world around him in his constructed universe. So, I lax my moral judgement as I begin to the see the world more objectively, as I begin to see other people's feelings more objectively and from there, I relax, I begin to not be on moral expressiveness. How have I developed my own function when really I've done the opposite service to it? I've recognized when it wants to work and on what it does. I recognize the moments when it wants to be a passionate conspirer and what that will cost me in my relationships with people, the universe of ideas and possibilities beyond who I am and the impact that I want to make. I become less "I" focused.

    Before Socionics, I did not recognize the objects or people that came at me intensely, I needed more of this idea of "protection." I've seen EII who hide under the arms of people who they see as strong willed, shrieking away from others without any reasonable cause, as though they are the disagreeable infant child who needs to be in their mother's/father's arm at all time lest they should run away and abandon them. I see these EII now and their behavior and I think, "how much more would you love life and enjoy it had you been able to recognize your self, what you do and how you act."
    Do you think that if someone enjoys different things, they will arrive at different conclusions about what is "moral", "ethical", and "true"? I don't think that's a necessity. I think all roads lead to the same destination.
    The trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others, and who is always duped himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonkopa View Post
    Hello, I have LIE preferences and am looking for ways to develop myself. How would I develop my intuition and sensing?
    Types theory may be useful in self development by development of _weak_ functions. This should be done through weak _valued_ functions only.
    How: use that functions.

    LIE may do sport needing stamina and strength. And something for Fi like noticing your feelings to people, including traits of IR, understanding what to be some other man.

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