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Thread: Alpha Quadras in Literature?

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    Default Alpha Quadras in Literature?

    What literary characters are INTjs and other alpha quadra types? Also, what roles do alpha quadra types normally play in literature? i.e. do they serve the role of the Mentor, the Trickster, the Antagonist, etc. It seems that there are generally not too many INTj protagonists or other main characters at all. Their very nature would almost always put INTjs in a natural supporting role.

    As an INTj, I'm mainly interested in INTj examples, but I would still like to hear examples of other alpha quadras (ESFj, ISFp, ENTp).
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    "Chief" and Noboru in the novel "The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea" by Yukio Mishima are textbook INTjs. Both characters have a very philosophical and logical mindset and often display somewhat sneering attitudes toward emotional subjects such as love, fatherhood, etc. They also
    come to adore a rather solitary sailor, Ryuji, who one could argue is ISFp since, even though he is very introverted, socializes well with people, has a soft demeanor, and almost always refuses to punish Noboru for his misdeeds, something which Noboru comes to see as a weakness. At the end of the novel both the Chief and Noboru decide that Ryuji must be "saved" in a fashion which only an INTj could concoct. Chief and Noboru, when making their rather bizarre charges against Ryuji always make a special point to weed out those charges born from emotion. It's a great novel, I highly recommend it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typeless Wonder
    At the end of the novel both the Chief and Noboru decide that Ryuji must be "saved" in a fashion which only an INTj could concoct. Chief and Noboru, when making their rather bizarre charges against Ryuji always make a special point to weed out those charges born from emotion. It's a great novel, I highly recommend it.

    Oh boy..... sounds like something that doesn't really help the INTj image ?
    Sometimes really scares me........... you really gotta keep it in check somehow. I haven't read the book yet, but maybe/maybe not

    Quote Originally Posted by answers.com
    The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea, a novel written by Yukio Mishima and published in 1963, chronicles the story of Ryuji, a sailor with vague notions of a special honor awaiting him at sea. As he begins to draw close to Fusako, a woman of the shore, he is eventually torn away from the dreams he's pursued his entire life. Fusako's son, Noboru, who shares an especially close bond with his mother through a voyeuristic ritual, hates the idea of losing his mother to a man who has let his hope and freedom die. This anger and fear of loneliness translates into terrible, savage acts performed by Noboru and the gang in which he is a part. The novel makes a powerful statement of what it means to discard the motivations that drive you, the consequences of resigning yourself to another's passions and habits, and the lengths some will go to, to maintain what they believe to be true.
    Hmm....


    I can't stand fictional novels for some reason. I really just don't care.

    The Japanese/INTj kinkiness, though, that is ... uh.... different....

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    Oh boy..... sounds like something that doesn't really help the INTj image Confused ?
    Sometimes Introverted Thinking really scares me........... you really gotta keep it in check somehow. I haven't read the book yet, but maybe/maybe not
    I think you'd enjoy the novel, the way the main characters philosophize about life and dream up ideas about various aspects of existence just has a very INTjish quality about it. Noboru and, especially the chief are very cold but also very deep in their thinking. It's not exactly a love story, at least not the type we're used to. Even if you hate reading fiction, I bet that you'd enjoy this novel. And yeah, many people did not like Noboru and the chief, so that probably a hint of what they think of INTjs.

    answers.com wrote:
    The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea, a novel written by Yukio Mishima and published in 1963, chronicles the story of Ryuji, a sailor with vague notions of a special honor awaiting him at sea. As he begins to draw close to Fusako, a woman of the shore, he is eventually torn away from the dreams he's pursued his entire life. Fusako's son, Noboru, who shares an especially close bond with his mother through a voyeuristic ritual, hates the idea of losing his mother to a man who has let his hope and freedom die. This anger and fear of loneliness translates into terrible, savage acts performed by Noboru and the gang in which he is a part. The novel makes a powerful statement of what it means to discard the motivations that drive you, the consequences of resigning yourself to another's passions and habits, and the lengths some will go to, to maintain what they believe to be true.
    I believe Ryuji, in his solitude and path toward "honor", if that's the right word to use, is symbolic of Japan itself. His engagement to Fusako, who loves western clothing and owns a shop in which she sells items made in the West, is symbolic of Japan losing it's culture and identity to the West. Noboru and the chief are basically the cold-blooded, but graceful solution to the problem in a sense. I loved the ending so I don't want to spoil it, even though it's subtle and many others who I had discussed the novel with did not like the ending.

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    When was this novel written?
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    I found the list that floats around the internet about famous fictional INTJs (I think this was for MBTI), so these examples are questionable. They do provide, however, something of a starting point and use more well known characters as opposed to stories that may be too obscure for most.

    Fictional:
    Cassius (Julius Caesar)
    Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice)
    Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books)
    Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
    Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis
    Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation)
    Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet)
    George Smiley, John le Carre's master spy
    Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs)
    In this list, three are famous villians (Cassius, Hannibal Lector, and Professor Moriarty), two are famous idiots (Roz & Guild), and one is the wise sage/mentor (Gandalf).
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    I can see Mr. Darcy as INTj, or maybe even INTp. I have my doubts about some of the other ones on that list.

    Good old Mr. Darcy, another INTj character (maybe) that was cast in a bad light, at least through two thirds of the book.
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    Mr Darcy is one of my favorite storybook characters, which is saying something considering how much I dislike fiction. I did a research project on him in my spare time, which mainly consisted of watching the BBC version of P&P on VHS, and it was interesting.

    I might not have the money, but at least it showed Darcy as a good guy - a gentleman - despite being reserved and intellectually haughty, etc.

    Good old Mr. Darcy, another INTj character (maybe) that was cast in a bad light, at least through two thirds of the book.
    That's kind of cool, though, I think, because I can relate to it. I almost always have bad first impressions, and I generally would like someone to be able to look past that. That doesn't mean that I use "rude & removed" as an excuse for social skills, no. But we all have our defaults.
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    Those are MBTI INTJs, not all of them will be socionics INTjs.

    From socionics.org:

    INTj: Athos of The Three Musketeers
    ESFj: Rhett of Gone with the Wind (not sure I agree)
    ISFp: Sancho, Don Quixote's companion
    ENTp: Don Quixote, D'Artagnan of The Three Musketeers, Henry Higgins of Shaw's Pygmalion
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Female ENTP characters:

    The character Pollyanna in Pollyanna by Eleanor Hodgman Porter (except I'm messier).

    Ayla in Clan of the Cave Bear by Jean Auel

    I think you'd find a lot of INTJs in comic books. Batman reminds me of an INTJ.
    Polly
    ENTP

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    I agree with Hannibal Lector- INTJ though.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


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    Ho ho ho -- but surely not all INTJs eat people...

    ......




    ......................




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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    I agree with Hannibal Lector- INTJ though.
    Mmmm, now I have to rewatch that movie to see.
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    Yes, Dr Lecter can be an INTj.

    And Jean-Luc Picard.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Those are MBTI INTJs, not all of them will be socionics INTjs.
    See the disclaimer. I used that list since I was unable to find any real Socionics list of literary or fictional characters.
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    Captain Jean Picard of the U.S.S. Enterprise... ah, the Picard Song
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    I got an INTj vibe from Enduring Love. The main character is very analytical which is supported by a language using lots of geometrical descriptions etc.
    INFj

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    My idea is not fool -proof, but read some books what are written by INTjs. Then notice what made those INTj-like. And then use your intuition to find other books which have the same kind of an author's voice, writing stile. Things what make them similar. Things what make clear that they are not very different from the original INTj prototype book.

    I can give you some names. Tchechov, Philip K dick. Immanule Kant and Descartes in philosphy. Master Eckhart in ocultism.

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    Eckhart Tolle or Meister Eckhart?

    (Or both?)
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    Lector is an LSI FTW.

    Bernard from Brave New World is an LII, and I believe his pal, Hemholtz, is either ILE or IEE.

    I've said this before, but I believe Darcy to be an SLI.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Alice from Alice In Wonderland. Many Voltaire's characters, as well as Voltaire himself.

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    Paul Atreides may very well be a model INTj.
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    I admire Leto much more however. Ent...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    That sounds like me ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Eckhart Tolle or Meister Eckhart?

    (Or both?)
    That last one. I think he was INTj, but I don't have much material about him. That's why I can't be very accurate. Typing is hard, especially when you only have some text. And even harder when you have only that and you don't know he's biography. It becomes too speculative. So you have only my word and that's all.

    Eckhart Tolle however is also an interesting fellow. He's books are interesting. Specially because that what Ken Wilber call's postego sphere, I find to be very fascinating. Tolle himslef seems to be intelligent, but lacks at explaining what those concepts mean at he's book and he also seems to mix terms, leaving everithing looking a bit like psychologism to me. I think he is not INTj, but my argument is very absurd. Typing someone just by reading one book, is way too crazy for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsb'07
    My idea is not fool -proof, but read some books what are written by INTjs. Then notice what made those INTj-like. And then use your intuition to find other books which have the same kind of an author's voice, writing stile. Things what make them similar. Things what make clear that they are not very different from the original INTj prototype book.

    I can give you some names. Tchechov, Philip K dick. Immanule Kant and Descartes in philosphy. Master Eckhart in ocultism.
    I don't think Kant is LII. He is not sufficiently logical in my opinion, he places intuition at the forefront, not logic.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    you do not understand intj "mysticism" then imo. dante is a good example of such a one imo. kant is a blenditure of that with an absolutist. i could see entj however

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    you do not understand intj "mysticism" then imo. dante is a good example of such a one imo. kant is a blenditure of that with an absolutist. i could see entj however
    Yes, even Jung, who is supposedly an INTj, had an incredible fascination with gnostic mysticism and the parallels with modern psychology.
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    I don't disagree with mysticism, but Kant is not sufficiently coherent for me, what do you think?
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    i have no trouble understanding him but i am not sure if that is what you are referring to.

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    He is not succinct, he is all over the place, his categories are bs, they are not really fundamental, they don't exist.
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    he is all over the place,
    Most philosophers are. They seem to either not clarify in the right places or are not straight enough to the point.

    But the point is not necessarily whether his categories make sense or if you agree with them, but that he does categorize in some logical fashion which is a characteristic of INTjs.
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    Pedro pointed out something very INTjish. INTjs like to systemize knowledge. They think structurally. You can notice how this type likes to make lists, categories, hierarhies,models and other stuff similar.Like the model of an atom: nuclearroton, neutron;electron. Their writings are very logical. They plan ahead step by step how to write. First the preface, then introduction to problem, then chapters opening the problem, then endline. It is easy to follow their thought because of that. They write argumentavly. INTjs write very clearly using rules of analytical thinking: thesis, antithesis,discussion examples, conclusion. They illustrate their materials with graphics and other things like that, which they also understand very well. They also like to write books, which give readers an overview of something. Encyclopedias, chronologies or other texts which need ordering facts, terms, concepts. Wikipedia is a good example how this types mind works. Go check it out, it is very .

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    That reminded me of my childhood jsb'07. I'd make my own encyclopedias of things I'd research.
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    Wikipedia is a good example how this types mind works. Go check it out, it is very .
    Wikipedia is a godsend. It's not always accurate, but it serves as a good starting point for basic overviews and links to additional and more thorough information.

    I admire Leto much more however. Ent...?
    While I'm add it, I'll go back to this as well. Are you talking about Paul's father Duke Leto I or Paul's son Leto II the God Emperor? Leto II was probably an ENTj. His path was already partially set by Paul Atreides (INTj), but the difference between the two is that Leto II was willing to lose his humanity to become the God Emperor, whereas Paul was not.
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    yes, at first i thought he (Leto II) was a clear entp but other factors made me think entj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    he is all over the place,
    Most philosophers are. They seem to either not clarify in the right places or are not straight enough to the point.

    But the point is not necessarily whether his categories make sense or if you agree with them, but that he does categorize in some logical fashion which is a characteristic of INTjs.
    Ethical philosophy is open-ended. Philosophers may think they are conclusive but I have yet to see one that is. I like to call it "food for thought."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Take the INTj: normally described in Socionics as a philosopher and a knight for truth, a person who builds logical systems around innovative ideas.

    I just like how that sounds
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    i'm almost positive J.M. Coetzee is LII
    lol

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