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Thread: INFJ, therefore I must be IEI?

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    Unhappy INFJ, therefore I must be IEI?

    I typed myself as INFJ and EII a few years ago, because, well. The descriptions sounded accurate. But to be honest, I don’t know a whole lot about either theory, mainly just bits and pieces. I’m on an MBTI forum and was told by several that I am wrong in my typing and that INFJ=IEI and INFP=EII because the functions are similar. I realized I had no arguments for them other than, “But my personality and interactions fit the descriptions!”

    Am I wrong about my typing as INFJ or EII? If MBTI functions =/= socionics functions, how do I…explain that to people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    I typed myself as INFJ and EII a few years ago, because, well. The descriptions sounded accurate. But to be honest, I don’t know a whole lot about either theory, mainly just bits and pieces. I’m on an MBTI forum and was told by several that I am wrong in my typing and that INFJ=IEI and INFP=EII because the functions are similar. I realized I had no arguments for them other than, “But my personality and interactions fit the descriptions!”

    Am I wrong about my typing as INFJ or EII? If MBTI functions =/= socionics functions, how do I…explain that to people?

    Even though socionics and mbti share the sam functions the functions are described quite differently.

    The Mbti INFJ shares the POLR(in MBTI inferior Function probably) extraverted sensing with the EII whereas the EII shares the two main functions with the MBTI INFP.
    In my opinion you have to decide between the two because they're not compatible at all.

    I made personally the experience that no MBTI description fit me especially the ESTJ descriptions in MBTI are these of a very dominant harsh alpha animal. In MBTI i also always had the feeling that intuitives are more intelligent and sensors are very simple in the descriptions. Maybe thats the reason why i opted for socionics

    a good start into socionics would be to read about model A. If you want to read some descriptions i can recommend www.sociotype.com. This one (http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/LSE-ESTj/) described me astonishing accurate. Could been also coincidence though.

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    Some years back a Myers Briggs paper was being written of a type which they were encountering who was clearly INF but from memory was neither the j nor the p type but instead most uncommonly showing the proficient use of functions of both but at the same time was neither and also came across as having more extroverted tendencies so could be confused with an extroverted NF.
    Unfortunately I don't know if the paper was ever finished as it led to an outcry that perhaps this was the case for all of those types of pairings though there was no evidence to support this.
    In conclusion it is my belief that because some may identify with this anomaly this is one possible reason to consider yourself to be INFJ/INFj in both systems.
    Though you should check out the Socionics functions.

    Check this post out as it should apply if you are a Socionics INFj:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post945868

    Also it depends on why you type yourself the way you do in Myers Briggs ie is it because of the basic dichotomies, because of your understanding of the functions or the write ups.
    Last edited by Shay; 06-20-2013 at 05:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daft21 View Post
    Even though socionics and mbti share the sam functions the functions are described quite differently.

    The Mbti INFJ shares the POLR(in MBTI inferior Function probably) extraverted sensing with the EII whereas the EII shares the two main functions with the MBTI INFP.
    In my opinion you have to decide between the two because they're not compatible at all.

    I made personally the experience that no MBTI description fit me especially the ESTJ descriptions in MBTI are these of a very dominant harsh alpha animal. In MBTI i also always had the feeling that intuitives are more intelligent and sensors are very simple in the descriptions. Maybe thats the reason why i opted for socionics

    a good start into socionics would be to read about model A. If you want to read some descriptions i can recommend www.sociotype.com. This one (http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/types/LSE-ESTj/) described me astonishing accurate. Could been also coincidence though.
    Choose between MBTI and socionics? That's the first time I've heard the suggestion.

    Sociotype.com, I remember visiting that site a while back. Looks like the descriptions aren't different from wikisocion.org.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayley View Post
    Some years back a Myers Briggs paper was being written of a type which they were encountering who was clearly INF but from memory was neither the j nor the p type but instead most uncommonly showing the proficient use of functions of both but at the same time was neither and also came across as having more extroverted tendencies so could be confused with an extroverted NF.
    Unfortunately I don't know if the paper was ever finished as it led to an outcry that perhaps this was the case for all of those types of pairings though there was no evidence to support this.
    In conclusion it is my belief that because some may identify with this anomaly it is possible to consider yourself to be INFJ/INFj in both systems.
    Though you should check out the Socionics functions.

    Also check this post out as it should apply if you are a Socionics INFj:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post945868
    Well, I'm no extrovert. And I'm a strong judger in MBTI.

    I don't know if that's how I'd word it. More like, "Approach everyone with their well-being in mind, and adapt your help to their needs/wants. Achieve balance between everyone's needs/wants as much as you can."

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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    I typed myself as INFJ and EII a few years ago, because, well. The descriptions sounded accurate. But to be honest, I don’t know a whole lot about either theory, mainly just bits and pieces. I’m on an MBTI forum and was told by several that I am wrong in my typing and that INFJ=IEI and INFP=EII because the functions are similar. I realized I had no arguments for them other than, “But my personality and interactions fit the descriptions!”

    Am I wrong about my typing as INFJ or EII? If MBTI functions =/= socionics functions, how do I…explain that to people?

    Just to let you know i made the same exact mistake for the exact same reasoning when i discovered socionics for myself. What basically happened was i spent my first 4 or so months trying to bond with the betas, and just felt bullied by a lot of them and/or felt very misunderstood, even by the nice betas. Eventually i had my epiphany and realized i'm IEE, which is in the opposing quadra. No wonder.

    that said, it doesn't mean you're NOT IEI. you just cant draw conclusions about your socionic type from your MBTI type. start from scratch here in socionics-land.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Just to let you know i made the same exact mistake for the exact same reasoning when i discovered socionics for myself. What basically happened was i spent my first 4 or so months trying to bond with the betas, and just felt bullied by a lot of them and/or felt very misunderstood, even by the nice betas. Eventually i had my epiphany and realized i'm IEE, which is in the opposing quadra. No wonder.

    that said, it doesn't mean you're NOT IEI. you just cant draw conclusions about your socionic type from your MBTI type. start from scratch here in socionics-land.
    Ah yes, I did type myself separately. Their claims are making me question the correlation between the theories, I guess.

    How would you explain to someone that socionics NeFi does not necessarily mean MBTI NeFi?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    Choose between MBTI and socionics? That's the first time I've heard the suggestion.

    Sociotype.com, I remember visiting that site a while back. Looks like the descriptions aren't different from wikisocion.org.
    choosing is the wrong word but they dont match with each other. Translation is not possible

    As ESTJ(MBTI) my inferior function is Fi and as ESTj(socionics) Fi is my suggestive dual seeking function , they're just too different systems.

    To your last question: i'd just answer you cant compare the two and the functions are described differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    Ah yes, I did type myself separately. Their claims are making me question the correlation between the theories, I guess.

    How would you explain to someone that socionics NeFi does not necessarily mean MBTI NeFi?
    socionics Ne is different from MBTI Ne. Socionics Fi is different from MBTI Fi. The two systems just have a slightly different focus. It takes some getting used to, to wrap one's mind around the socionic focus. A very general oversimplified way to see it is MBTI looks at general personal characteristics. Socionics tries to focus on information processing (i.e. the way one's mind processes information, aka information "metabolism"), and in doing so can also then be applied to interpersonal interactions (how do you process information coming from another person? is it easily "digestible" to you? is it like they're speaking a foreign language and fraught with mutual misunderstandings?). Therein lies the value of socionics, in my opinion.
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    p.s. if you mistype yourself in socionics, dont worry, you'll find out sooner or later...
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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    Choose between MBTI and socionics? That's the first time I've heard the suggestion.

    Sociotype.com, I remember visiting that site a while back. Looks like the descriptions aren't different from wikisocion.org.
    Do you know what it means to have an inferior Se function? would you be able to explain that particular PoLR function in your own words?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Do you know what it means to have an inferior Se function? would you be able to explain that particular PoLR function in your own words?

    Why do you attempt to make every new member feel like a fucking idiot, Maritsa? You're a patronizing little shit. This person wasn't fucking born with "knowledge" of this shitty pseudo-psychology and neither were you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    Ah yes, I did type myself separately. Their claims are making me question the correlation between the theories, I guess.

    How would you explain to someone that socionics NeFi does not necessarily mean MBTI NeFi?
    Think of "Ne" or "Fi" (or any of the others) as a label that goes on a "box", in this case a set of mental processes or a cognitive filter. These boxes may share the same label, but when you pry off the lid and look at what's inside, the contents are not the same, so despite the labels being the same, the boxes are not interchangeable.
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    @inacucumber -- I like your avatar.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    I've seen this chart before. Where is it from?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daft21 View Post
    To your last question: i'd just answer you cant compare the two and the functions are described differently.
    Yeah, that's not going to convince them...I'm gonna copypaste some of their arguments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    I've seen this chart before. Where is it from?
    From a retard's head.

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    Ehh. It looks like people are giving long-winded explanations that mean, "If you've studied the series, then you'll see that MBTI functions correlate with socionics functions." Seems like I'll have to study the systems more before having any actual arguments. I'll just avoid PerC discussions on socionics until then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    Yeah, that's not going to convince them...I'm gonna copypaste some of their arguments.
    Its the third time that you mention how you can explain it to others. I think a Fi valuer would be more eager to figure it out for herself/himself.

    Its very easy to find basic informations about socionics in the internet, it seems your're not very eager to figure it out quickly you also dont show any own-initiative.


    My guess would be ISFp SEI

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daft21 View Post
    Its the third time that you mention how you can explain it to others. I think a Fi valuer would be more eager to figure it out for herself/himself.

    Its very easy to find basic informations about socionics in the internet, it seems your're not very eager to figure it out quickly you also dont show any own-initiative.
    how did you figure out that i'm like this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    A very general oversimplified way to see it is MBTI looks at general personal characteristics. Socionics tries to focus on information processing (i.e. the way one's mind processes information, aka information "metabolism"), and in doing so can also then be applied to interpersonal interactions (how do you process information coming from another person? is it easily "digestible" to you? is it like they're speaking a foreign language and fraught with mutual misunderstandings?). Therein lies the value of socionics, in my opinion.
    MBTI actually measures preferences not personal characteristics, besides you're going to get re-directed to a person who administered MBTI test if the result doesn't really match you, a person who might offer help by saying "change the letter in your four-letter code 'here and there'", that is, people aren't really concerned. So much on MBTI...

    As a side note, I checked MBTI forum (INTP one) a very long time ago and found people therein really concerned with grammar rules and I think I left after two days, not because of that fact, but it was utterly boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    MBTI actually measures preferences not personal characteristics, besides you're going to get re-directed to a person who administered MBTI test if the result doesn't really match you, a person who might offer help by saying "change the letter in your four-letter code 'here and there'", that is, people aren't really concerned. So much on MBTI...
    An MBTI practictioner (there are official ones who have to sit some sort of exam) will look at personal characteristics when assessing your type. If you are talking about MBTI online test only then i'm curious what you see is the difference between preferences and personal characteristics, assuming that the preferences don't change...or do they?

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    @inacucumber I like your name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    An MBTI practictioner (there are official ones who have to sit some sort of exam) will look at personal characteristics when assessing your type. If you are talking about MBTI online test only then i'm curious what you see is the difference between preferences and personal characteristics, assuming that the preferences don't change...or do they?
    MBTI is based upon Carl Jung's notions of psychological types and it was first developed by Isabel Briggs Myers and her mother, Katharine Cook Briggs. Isabel’s husband, Clarence Myers, was a lawyer and because Clarence was so different from the rest of the family, Katherine became interested in types. She introduced Isabel to Jung’s book, Psychological Types and thus they both became avid type watchers.

    And what I was trying to say when I wrote preferences is the extraversion/introversion, sensate/intuitive, thinking/feeling, and judging/perceiving axis. Preferences in short , not personal characteristics which can be interpreted in many ways.

    As for taking an online MBTI test and scoring some four-letter type? Well, sorry I do this again but you might want to ask people on here, make a survey inquiring whether their MBTI type changed after some time or not...

    I'm sure you will stumble upon interesting replies (same with Socionics).

    You can think of it in terms of that Park thread as well - the stuff you picked (not picked) are preferences, not personal characteristics. Preferences allow for a choice, personal characteristics, don't.
    Last edited by Absurd; 05-26-2013 at 04:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    how did you figure out that i'm like this?
    Who says you are like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daft21 View Post
    Its the third time that you mention how you can explain it to others. I think a Fi valuer would be more eager to figure it out for herself/himself.

    Its very easy to find basic informations about socionics in the internet, it seems your're not very eager to figure it out quickly you also dont show any own-initiative.


    My guess would be ISFp SEI
    wut

    I have no confidence in my ability to debate against these people and tell them they're wrong until I've read books and reliable articles on Jung, MBTI, and socionics and have wrote notes on the differences. I was wondering if there were any quick arguments I could make against them, or if they were right. As for their 'arguments'. They just linked to descriptions and said, "Therefore they're the same," and I wasn't sure how to respond to that.
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    Well, there are a few users there who are known for their extensive knowledge of the theories and have come to the conclusion that the functions are the same, but it seems I'll have to do some serious studying before debating with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    how did you figure out that i'm like this?
    coincidence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by inacucumber View Post
    Well, there are a few users there who are known for their extensive knowledge of the theories and have come to the conclusion that the functions are the same, but it seems I'll have to do some serious studying before debating with them.
    and even if the functions are the same you can't translate the classic mbti of 1. 2. .3. and inferior function into model A.

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