Which intertype relation is this?

[Tropski Bolest]

I have a relation description, could you help me figure it out.

This person secretly resents me, well despises would be more appropriate. It's a family member. They would never say such a thing through, and I don't think they're even aware of it. They're the kind of person that conforms to societal norms. A person must act a certain way, certain social rules and gestures must be conformed to, gender roles and so on. I'm not really bothered by that aspect, I've come to live with it, through the hypocrisy between their words and actions does get to me sometimes.

Another thing this person does is very actively thrusts their lifestyle upon me. All that societal roles, gender roles and stuff. They will make stuff up and be convinced it's the truth, like everybody is doing it, nobody is doing it and so on. And they will tell me to act and think a certain way. And then when I ignore them will come back time and time again, with increasing resolve and vigor until a fight escalates. Which is then for that person completely out of the blue and unprovoked, a senseless attack by me on them. This then repeats over and over again.

They also actively disapprove and try to change my existing behavior. Every time they notice it they bash it. This is less problematic as it is easier to ignore. But it does escalate sometimes when I try to reason with them. As there really is no reasoning with them because they are a priori correct. The reject anything that challenges these a priori conclusions and justify it with an appeal to some authority like read it somewhere, saw all the people doing it, all the experts are saying it and so on.

They also have violent mood swings. Regular rage rampages when they say some truly horrible things. I though about writing some of that stuff down, just in case I want to truly hurt somebody in the future. Though they're not really mood swings, it happens if something or somebody clashes with how they view reality. That becomes the most evil thing in the world and they are the mega victim, their suffering unrivaled. I've gotten use to them, but still something inside me dies a little everytime I'm subjected to it.

Thinking about their life is also really painful. As they've thrown away their hopes, dreams and aspirations, basically their life, just to conform to societal roles. They could do so much and yet live like a slave. They have no ambition, aspirations, basically if something is not in front of their eyes it may as well not exist. They just think and see things that are here and now, leading to some truly horrible long term solutions. I can see it happening, I know what's going to happen, and it pains me to look at it.

We don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. My ways and methods are seen as unintended mistakes on my part and they try to steer me on to the right path. I see their entire life as a waste of possibility and potential and see them as incompetent to give out the advice and guidance they give out so I reject it. This is the kind of person that were they an acquaintance I would forget about them almost instantly and would have no contact with them. My interaction with this person can be summed up as slowly dieing inside, and it's gotten to the point where I'm actually developing medical conditions like ulcers because of their impact on my life. I use to be a high energy, constantly active person, doing ten things at once, and now I spend a lot of my time just trying to calm myself down.

So I'm wondering what relation is it and can it be improved?

[Absurd]

They will make stuff up and be convinced it's the truth, like everybody is doing it, nobody is doing it and so on. And they will tell me to act and think a certain way. And then when I ignore them will come back time and time again, with increasing resolve and vigor until a fight escalates. Which is then for that person completely out of the blue and unprovoked, a senseless attack by me on them.

You're describing a couple people on this site.

They also have violent mood swings.

Check.

So I'm wondering what relation is it and can it be improved?

A relation of discomfort and it can be improved by eliminating it.

[Tropski Bolest]

A relation of discomfort and it can be improved by eliminating it.

Let's assume that's not going to happen in the near future. Can socionics, knowledge of socionics, do anthing to help?

[Beautiful sky]

I have a relation description, could you help me figure it out.

This person secretly resents me, well despises would be more appropriate. It's a family member.

How do you know this or why do you assume it?

They would never say such a thing through, and I don't think they're even aware of it. They're the kind of person that conforms to societal norms.

How and in what ways does the person conform to societal norms?

A person must act a certain way, certain social rules and gestures must be conformed to, gender roles and so on. I'm not really bothered by that aspect, I've come to live with it, through the hypocrisy between their words and actions does get to me sometimes.

Interesting. So are you sure this is not done on purpose our of the other person's own stubbornness against you?

Another thing this person does is very actively thrusts their lifestyle upon me. All that societal roles, gender roles and stuff. They will make stuff up and be convinced it's the truth, like everybody is doing it, nobody is doing it and so on. And they will tell me to act and think a certain way. And then when I ignore them will come back time and time again, with increasing resolve and vigor until a fight escalates. Which is then for that person completely out of the blue and unprovoked, a senseless attack by me on them. This then repeats over and over again.

So, in the attack, you guys actually try to correct each other's perception of what is right and wrong according to whatever system or model each one of you follow?

They also actively disapprove and try to change my existing behavior. Every time they notice it they bash it. This is less problematic as it is easier to ignore. But it does escalate sometimes when I try to reason with them. As there really is no reasoning with them because they are a priori correct. The reject anything that challenges these a priori conclusions and justify it with an appeal to some authority like read it somewhere, saw all the people doing it, all the experts are saying it and so on.

It's hard to tell what quadra this member is in because anyone can be this way for different reasons; you can be swept to passionately by a concept or idea and become rigid in your thinking from your ego function if your base, or you can have and stick to ideas that you don't want bent or principles you don't want to alter if you're type; so many types for many reasons can be this way; the information conveyed will be more telling.

They also have violent mood swings. Regular rage rampages when they say some truly horrible things. I though about writing some of that stuff down, just in case I want to truly hurt somebody in the future. Though they're not really mood swings, it happens if something or somebody clashes with how they view reality. That becomes the most evil thing in the world and they are the mega victim, their suffering unrivaled. I've gotten use to them, but still something inside me dies a little everytime I'm subjected to it.

violent moods swings? what do they do or say? Why are you around this person if you're being killed emotionally?

Thinking about their life is also really painful. As they've thrown away their hopes, dreams and aspirations, basically their life, just to conform to societal roles. They could do so much and yet live like a slave. They have no ambition, aspirations, basically if something is not in front of their eyes it may as well not exist. They just think and see things that are here and now, leading to some truly horrible long term solutions. I can see it happening, I know what's going to happen, and it pains me to look at it.

You can see things happen? So you're a dynamic type?

We don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. My ways and methods are seen as unintended mistakes on my part and they try to steer me on to the right path. I see their entire life as a waste of possibility and potential and see them as incompetent to give out the advice and guidance they give out so I reject it. This is the kind of person that were they an acquaintance I would forget about them almost instantly and would have no contact with them. My interaction with this person can be summed up as slowly dieing inside, and it's gotten to the point where I'm actually developing medical conditions like ulcers because of their impact on my life. I use to be a high energy, constantly active person, doing ten things at once, and now I spend a lot of my time just trying to calm myself down.

So I'm wondering what relation is it and can it be improved?

Strange, you're a contradiction; on one hand you say you would forget about this person, but on the other hand you think about this person to the point of physical illness; you must love this person in some secret way and admire them.

Improvement can come if the person is a Rational type and so are you.

[Absurd]

As far the theory goes you can gauge the relationship or none at all you have with that person, having first-hand knowledge in the first place and map it onto those intertype relations to see whether your hunches(?) were correct.

And there's no such thing as "a priori correct" in this case for you mentioned:

The reject anything that challenges these a priori conclusions and justify it with an appeal to some authority like read it somewhere, saw all the people doing it, all the experts are saying it and so on.

That's a posteriori. And sounds a bit like the inability to filter info, but I can be wrong.

[Beautiful sky]

Let's assume that's not going to happen in the near future. Can socionics, knowledge of socionics, do anthing to help?

Yes, that's what socionics is for; if you knew what and why the person was doing those things and you understand and accept it you're supposed to stop yourself from doing the things you normally do that would create frustration and resentment, you're supposed to be able to empathize and sympathize with the position or the thinking process of the other individual better; that is the power of knowledge; like if you knew fools' gold was not real gold and you knew you're not supposed to remove it from water but you did it out of your stubbornness anyway than who is the real moron, you or the fool's gold (that would be you). Knowledge is power.

[Tropski Bolest]

How do you know this or why do you assume it?

It's a subtle, silent thing and I can feel it in the way they interact with me. Secretly blaming me for their state. Though not just me, other people and things as well. Sometimes it comes out when they get really emotionally unstable. Like outright say it. Kind of like how drunk people sometimes blurt out their true inclinations and desires. But I can feel it without that direct evidence. That cold behind that warm and effusive exterior. But it's not much of an issue for me, as I definitely am partially responsible for their state, so I even approve of it.

How and in what ways does the person conform to societal norms?

Like greeting people, behaving properly in public, wearing fitting clothes, men and women have certain thing they do and don't do. Like there are arbitrary rules and customs that must be followed when interacting with other people.

Interesting. So are you sure this is not done on purpose our of the other person's own stubbornness against you?

Yes.

So, in the attack, you guys actually try to correct each other's perception of what is right and wrong according to whatever system or model each one of you follow?

I guess. I'm not sure. They definitely try to “fix” me. And I resist it.

violent moods swings? what do they do or say? Why are you around this person if you're being killed emotionally?

Spout personal insults that I tend to ignore and I live there.

You can see things happen? So you're a dynamic type?

I have no idea. I'm not sure what that is suppose to mean. I would say, yes, I can visualize events unfolding in the future from their current state of affairs.

Strange, you're a contradiction; on one hand you say you would forget about this person, but on the other hand you think about this person to the point of physical illness; you must love this person in some secret way and admire them.

Ha, I think about them as much as I think about someone breaking my leg.

As far the theory goes you can gauge the relationship or none at all you have with that person, having first-hand knowledge in the first place and map it onto those intertype relations to see whether your hunches(?) were correct.

That would require competence on my side. Hence the public question.

And there's no such thing as "a priori correct" in this case for you mentioned:

That's a posteriori. And sounds a bit like the inability to filter info, but I can be wrong.

A priori to our discussion, coming into a discussion with the truth already established.

Yes, that's what socionics is for; if you knew what and why the person was doing those things and you understand and accept it you're supposed to stop yourself from doing the things you normally do that would create frustration and resentment, you're supposed to be able to empathize and sympathize with the position or the thinking process of the other individual better; that is the power of knowledge;

That sounds nice, I'd like me some of that. Is this the promise socionics gives? If it is I can see it's appeal. Kind of like religion, but for people in bad relationships.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm confused now. You want to know what relationship dynamic you're in? I can't say, no one can without typing either one of you. Socionics can help if the other person is not insane.

[Absurd]

That would require competence on my side. Hence the public question.

That simply means you do not know nor posses the "tools" this Socionics geveth to you and any kind of "utility" it brings can't be reached on your own pace at this particular era of your inquiries - you're asking publicly the Socionics breast and finest that do not know(?) how you self-type nor do not have any kind of info about your radioactive and terminal illness inducing member of family besides that that person has violent mood swings and believes everything she/he reads. That paints a fragmentary picture at best.

A priori to our discussion, coming into a discussion with the truth already established.

I'm not your subject of inquiries.

Besides, that person wouldn't have to read stuff in order to come to a priori judgments - it's a posteriori (still), unless she/he came to those conclusions on her/his own - it's a priori.

Sounds like some Ti people so far, but again I can be wrong and die.

[Tropski Bolest]

I'm a bit confused, I didn't understand either of you.

Are you both saying that in order to understand what kind of relation I have (so that I can do something about it) I have to determine my type first?

[anndelise]

Tropski, living with someone with that kind of relationship...I do not envy. How much longer must you live with them?

Regarding the type of relationship you described, I think I would suggest looking at enneatypes as a source of understanding before socionics. In particular the image types for that person. This might help you understand how they see the world and why they do what they do.

I would also suggest trying to find how this person's actions can be viewed as a positive thing. Not positive for you, but how they might see what they do as being positive and helpful, or how it legitimately helps them. "Every person is the hero of their own story." If you can grasp some of this, then you can either use that info to give input (such as 'I believe your are trying to X, but if you really wanted to X with me, then try Y instead so we can salvage our relationship' or whatever seems appropriate to you), or you can use that info as a weapon ('you keep trying to get me to do X, but when do you do X yourself?, or such).

I guess ultimately answers would depend on what you hope to achieve. Do you want to understand them? Hurt them back? Get them to stop? Or other.


As for the 'everybody is doing it. Nobody does it' thing...ask them "who specifically does it?" Or "who specifically doesn't". It seems that what you have described is a person who has over generalized things to the point that they have lost track of, or are avoiding, an actual experience. I will look for a link that covers what I am referring to. If you're not the empathizing/understanding type, then the info I am thinking of might be closer to helpful for you. I will post a link hopefully some time today. (My brain isn't kicking out the name for me and I can't type on ipad and search internet on it at same time. Sorry.)

[anndelise]

Ok, I was thinking about NLP's meta-model regarding generalizations, distortions, and deletions. From what you described so far of the person involved, they might be making extensive use of these errors in thinking.

For a quick idea, here are some links. (These are from a quick search, I know nothing of the actual sites involved, just the specific page being linked.)

For a brief overview: http://www.expandyourworld.net/i+i-generalization.php

For ideas on questions to ask: http://sourcesofinsight.com/generali...nd-distortion/
(i actually liked that questions page and will be printing it off for further studying at a later time.)

For another way of understanding what's happening and questions to help: http://www.the-secret-of-mindpower-a...lisations.html


I actually think these might be of more use to you than socionics typing would. Particularly if you add in the motivational aspects of the enneatype.

However, asking these questions might be perceived as you attacking this person...which in a way you are..because you'd be asking questions that inevitably alter their current world view. This is stressful to the person answering them. So expect more of that negative behavior you described. However...there's a good chance that they will perceive it as punishment (the negative feelings of having to alter their world view one step at a time), and as such might eventually cut back how often they do what you described to you. This cutback won't change their world view, but it would give you a bit more peace.

[Tropski Bolest]

Tropski, living with someone with that kind of relationship...I do not envy. How much longer must you live with them?

Yeah, it's pretty vile, mentally.

It wasn't really an issue up until a couple of years ago when I finished college. Up until then I was “doing everything properly” so they mostly stayed off my case. But since I “stopped following procedure” and they started to dictate my life things have been going downhill. I'm the kind of person that makes unplanned decisions, in a spur of the moment kind of thing. I like to have many activities between which I freely switch. If somebody pressures me too much I tend to cave in, I don't respond to well to pressure. And I tried to live that life. Get a source of income, a proper job and all that stuff. Build a career. I tried really hard to be good at it. But all it did was really scar me. I don't want any of that. I passionately do not want any of that. I need to randomly and freely jump from one interest to another, one day this, the other something completely different. I do have a plan through, but this state of affairs is ruining my health and affecting my work. I need to stabilize it so that I can be productive enough to dig myself out of this situation. What was suppose to be a couple of months of hard work stretched into over a year. As of right now I'm stagnating to a point where I won't have enough energy to get out.

Regarding the type of relationship you described, I think I would suggest looking at enneatypes as a source of understanding before socionics. In particular the image types for that person. This might help you understand how they see the world and why they do what they do.

I would also suggest trying to find how this person's actions can be viewed as a positive thing. Not positive for you, but how they might see what they do as being positive and helpful, or how it legitimately helps them. "Every person is the hero of their own story." If you can grasp some of this, then you can either use that info to give input (such as 'I believe your are trying to X, but if you really wanted to X with me, then try Y instead so we can salvage our relationship' or whatever seems appropriate to you), or you can use that info as a weapon ('you keep trying to get me to do X, but when do you do X yourself?, or such).

I guess ultimately answers would depend on what you hope to achieve. Do you want to understand them? Hurt them back? Get them to stop? Or other.

They want to build me up like a puppet. Contort my psyche in ways unnatural for me. If they keep playing with me like this they will break me. I want to get them to stop.

[Tropski Bolest]

Ok, I was thinking about NLP's meta-model regarding generalizations, distortions, and deletions. From what you described so far of the person involved, they might be making extensive use of these errors in thinking.

For a quick idea, here are some links. (These are from a quick search, I know nothing of the actual sites involved, just the specific page being linked.)

For a brief overview: http://www.expandyourworld.net/i+i-generalization.php

For ideas on questions to ask: http://sourcesofinsight.com/generali...nd-distortion/
(i actually liked that questions page and will be printing it off for further studying at a later time.)

For another way of understanding what's happening and questions to help: http://www.the-secret-of-mindpower-a...lisations.html


I actually think these might be of more use to you than socionics typing would. Particularly if you add in the motivational aspects of the enneatype.

However, asking these questions might be perceived as you attacking this person...which in a way you are..because you'd be asking questions that inevitably alter their current world view. This is stressful to the person answering them. So expect more of that negative behavior you described. However...there's a good chance that they will perceive it as punishment (the negative feelings of having to alter their world view one step at a time), and as such might eventually cut back how often they do what you described to you. This cutback won't change their world view, but it would give you a bit more peace.

Why that sounds awesome.

[anndelise]

I am getting the sense that this person is either a parental type figure or a family member who has 'taken you in while you get back on your feet'. Actually, probably someone else in the family took you in, but this person happens to also live there. Is that close enough?

[Tropski Bolest]

I am getting the sense that this person is either a parental type figure or a family member who has 'taken you in while you get back on your feet'. Actually, probably someone else in the family took you in, but this person happens to also live there. Is that close enough?

Yeap, parent, but I want to be as vague as possible to limit people's preconceptions and expectations.

[anndelise]

Yeap, parent, but I want to be as vague as possible to limit people's preconceptions and expectations.

Makes sense. Mostly I was asking because of the obligations that tend to come when someone "helps" someone else like that. It also helps in getting an idea of how much pushing/questioning you might be able to get away with.


On a different note, what is your plan?
I ask cuz I, too, jump from interest to interest constantly. In fact, now that my daughter is on the verge of leaving the nest, I have been excited about the freedom to jump around again without having to worry about conserving energy/time for her needs.

I've also been reviewing old interests which I have stored up on, to see if I actually enjoy that activity or if it's time to let the desire for it go. And, of course, trying to test out which ones might be able to provide some kind of income to at least support itself, and hopefully the other activities, lol.

Imo, Renaissance Wo/Man is a legitimate career option, even if it's not generally accepted as such.

[Tropski Bolest]

On a different note, what is your plan?

Well I have many interests and business ideas, I want to try out those, with or without my friends.

I've also been reviewing old interests which I have stored up on, to see if I actually enjoy that activity or if it's time to let the desire for it go. And, of course, trying to test out which ones might be able to provide some kind of income to at least support itself, and hopefully the other activities, lol.

This is exactly how I function. I have like a hundred different ideas, I've been writing them down. I want to try them out all.

[Trevor]

hey @Tropski Bolest, where are you from?

[Tropski Bolest]

Why, you can read my username? It's deliberately misspelt.

[Tropski Bolest]

... generalizations, distortions, and deletions...

I've gone through those links and that is already how I approach the person when I try to reason with them. Those are some of the questions I ask them. Like where did you get that, justify your claim, did you get that information from a knowledgeable and trusted source and so on. And when then call on an authority I call on another claiming the opposite. I often times just make one up simply to get them to question it. They then perceive me as either taking up a stance against them and attacking them or that my mind is closed off, I'm rejecting their sound advice for no reason whatsoever, am acting foolishly and not in my best interest. Please, I should listen to them, they beg of me. Either way they press on harder.

However, asking these questions might be perceived as you attacking this person...which in a way you are..because you'd be asking questions that inevitably alter their current world view. This is stressful to the person answering them. So expect more of that negative behavior you described. However...there's a good chance that they will perceive it as punishment (the negative feelings of having to alter their world view one step at a time), and as such might eventually cut back how often they do what you described to you. This cutback won't change their world view, but it would give you a bit more peace.

That's exactly how they interpreted it. They claim that all I do now is spout vitriol at and harass them. For the last couple of months I was doing what that theory suggests, questioning the reasoning behind beliefs and statements, trying to empirically justify them, demonstrate their existence or a lack of. I guess in this case it only made things worse. As they will often come back with the I'm molesting them statement, which just isn't true and makes me feel bad as that is not what I what to do. I don't want to hurt the person. I think I'll drop it. I'm tired of it and it's accomplishing nothing.

But that does sound great for self improvement. I'll take that up myself, I can already think of a cuple of “truths” I have.

[anndelise]

Hmmm, yeah, those questions kinda require a soft and discriminating hand and a looong time. If this person is already of a victim/aggressor mindset, then the questions might just add to that. (nonsocionical victim/aggressor, that is)

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Sounds like a sheltered person from a conservative town that can only be happy when others are conforming to the way they think the world should work. The only way to "cure" this is to expose the person to what they are afraid of and they will change slowly over time. I used to be racist against black people but then I was forced to spend time with black people and well, you just get used to it. This person needs to get over their fear of people who don't fit gender norms by simply hanging around them. At first it's scary like 'ew a fag why can't you just a be a normal straight man like everybody else' but then you realize people are themselves, not what society wants them to be.

To improve your relationship idk, saying something like while you appreciate certain traditions in society you also realize we are all independent and we all choose particular lifestyles for us. That this isn't a wrong thing, she's just scared of it because she isn't used to it. If she's knee-deep in that religion stuff I don't really know how to help you there, that makes people do a lot of fucked up things to others thinking they are right.

[Tropski Bolest]

Sounds like a sheltered person from a conservative town that can only be happy when others are conforming to the way they think the world should work. The only way to "cure" this is to expose the person to what they are afraid of and they will change slowly over time. I used to be racist against black people but then I was forced to spend time with black people and well, you just get used to it. This person needs to get over their fear of people who don't fit gender norms by simply hanging around them. At first it's scary like 'ew a fag why can't you just a be a normal straight man like everybody else' but then you realize people are themselves, not what society wants them to be.

To improve your relationship idk, saying something like while you appreciate certain traditions in society you also realize we are all independent and we all choose particular lifestyles for us. That this isn't a wrong thing, she's just scared of it because she isn't used to it. If she's knee-deep in that religion stuff I don't really know how to help you there, that makes people do a lot of fucked up things to others thinking they are right.

A quick comment, I think your awesome! Based on this response.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Aww thank you. <3

[Tropski Bolest]

If this person is already of a victim/aggressor mindset, then the questions might just add to that. (nonsocionical victim/aggressor, that is)

They're not (of a victim/aggressor mindset).

Sounds like a sheltered person from a conservative town that can only be happy when others are conforming to the way they think the world should work. The only way to "cure" this is to expose the person to what they are afraid of and they will change slowly over time. I used to be racist against black people but then I was forced to spend time with black people and well, you just get used to it. This person needs to get over their fear of people who don't fit gender norms by simply hanging around them. At first it's scary like 'ew a fag why can't you just a be a normal straight man like everybody else' but then you realize people are themselves, not what society wants them to be.

To improve your relationship idk, saying something like while you appreciate certain traditions in society you also realize we are all independent and we all choose particular lifestyles for us. That this isn't a wrong thing, she's just scared of it because she isn't used to it. If she's knee-deep in that religion stuff I don't really know how to help you there, that makes people do a lot of fucked up things to others thinking they are right.

I guess I should clarify the person more, not a sheltered person, not from a small town (The concept of a small town is, uhm, different here from what I've seen in American movies. American movies don't carry the communist style butcher breeding ground connotation.), they're afraid of nothing and all they truly want is to help me. With them being unaware of the part even if it kills me. They place no expectations on other people other then being generally polite and courteous to each other and their attitude to life and people is live and let live, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy life. The hold no political or religious beliefs and in general have a very open mind. For example they abandoned the religion they grew up with when they moved here as the local culture was different. It's only the close family members and friends that receive the special treatment of I WILL help/fix you.

[wacey]

Benefit, supervisor, conflict, mirage; these intertypes bring real misunderstandings at the psyhcological level; ie.: your personalities just don't click right, irregardless of familly member relationships, life experiences, history, amount of love. From what I read, you recognize your problems with this person stem from tangible differences in your two personalities, and not some other contributing factors. That's tough mate, especiallly since probably both love each other.

This person you speak of sounds like an Fe-dom, maybe an ESFj.

[Tropski Bolest]

Benefit, supervisor, conflict, mirage; these intertypes bring real misunderstandings at the psyhcological level; ie.: your personalities just don't click right, irregardless of familly member relationships, life experiences, history, amount of love. From what I read, you recognize your problems with this person stem from tangible differences in your two personalities, and not some other contributing factors.

Yes and Benefit is which one? http://www.socionics.us/relations.shtml

That's tough mate, especiallly since probably both love each other.

Well ... I would disagree. Unless sorrow and revulsion are indicative of love. And for them, well, I'm convinced that parental love is no love. They love a child. If I were a serial killer they would still love me. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.

This person you speak of sounds like an Fe-dom, maybe an ESFj.

Is that relevant?

[wacey]

You know your situation better then anyone else could.

Sounds like a lot of heartache and grief between you.

What do you want to see happen, in an ideal world?

[Tropski Bolest]

Oh, that's easy, part ways and forget about each other.

EDIT: which is not going to happen. I'm going to have to take care of them when they get old. Which is why, on a side note, it's imperative for me to become wealthy, so that I don't have to do that.

[FDG]

I don't know if it's type (intertype relationship) related.

Let me offer you an example. I have an ISTj aunt. Until I was 22-23, she treated me exactly like you describe in your first post, and I accordinly reacted in a scathing and sometimes offensive fashion. After I finished university and got my first what she considered "respectable" job, she suddenly stopped. Now we have a good relationship.

[wacey]

Hahahaha!

Well if that's what it takes, if that's what your inner intuition is telling you, if your is inconsolable, and it hurts more then it doesn't, then maybe leaving is what you truly want. Or maybe it isn't, but you will do that anyway. And maybe you will come back in time, few months, years, who knows? Or maybe you will stay. Maybe you need to forget about each other for awhile.

In my view, mate, the improvement you are seeking is for you and your own life, and there is ABSOLUTLY nothing wrong with that.

Maybe being wealthy so you can be self sufficient and take care of yourself would be enough for your parents.

Or maybe I'm out to lunch and so not reading you correctly, in which case, let me know.

[Tropski Bolest]

I don't know if it's type (intertype relationship) related.

Let me offer you an example. I have an ISTj aunt. Until I was 22-23, she treated me exactly like you describe in your first post, and I accordinly reacted in a scathing and sometimes offensive fashion. After I finished university and got my first what she considered "respectable" job, she suddenly stopped. Now we have a good relationship.

What if I have no intention of ever getting a respectable job? Not not getting a job in general, just nothing respectable? Am I then … fucked?

EDIT: Let me restate that, what if I have no intention of ever doing what they want of me?

In my view, mate, the improvement you are seeking is for you and your own life, and there is ABSOLUTLY nothing wrong with that.

Oh, most definitely. But I have that aspect covered, am actively working on it. It's this bloodsucking relationship that's draining me of the life to make it happen. The worst part is that they truly want to see me succeed. And yet every action they take undermines me.

Or maybe I'm out to lunch and so not reading you correctly, in which case, let me know.

As long as you take an active interest I'll find a way to exploit you.

What does the expression “out to lunch” mean?

[FDG]

What if I have no intention of ever getting a respectable job? Not not getting a job in general, just nothing respectable? Am I then … fucked?

EDIT: Let me restate that, what if I have no intention of ever doing what they want of me?

I don't unfortunately know what you can do to remedy your situation, what I'm saying is that there might not be an underlying "socionical" reason, but rather other psychological aspects. Perhaps you simply have to wait until she'll get older and will thus decide to spend her forces more wisely.

[squark]

Solution is to stop depending on them and take care of yourself.

[rat1]

I have a relation description, could you help me figure it out.

This person secretly resents me, well despises would be more appropriate. It's a family member. They would never say such a thing through, and I don't think they're even aware of it. They're the kind of person that conforms to societal norms. A person must act a certain way, certain social rules and gestures must be conformed to, gender roles and so on. I'm not really bothered by that aspect, I've come to live with it, through the hypocrisy between their words and actions does get to me sometimes.

Another thing this person does is very actively thrusts their lifestyle upon me. All that societal roles, gender roles and stuff. They will make stuff up and be convinced it's the truth, like everybody is doing it, nobody is doing it and so on. And they will tell me to act and think a certain way. And then when I ignore them will come back time and time again, with increasing resolve and vigor until a fight escalates. Which is then for that person completely out of the blue and unprovoked, a senseless attack by me on them. This then repeats over and over again.

It's impossible to give you real advice while you're being vague about everything. But asking for advice is always asking to be bullshitted, I suppose.

They also actively disapprove and try to change my existing behavior. Every time they notice it they bash it. This is less problematic as it is easier to ignore. But it does escalate sometimes when I try to reason with them. As there really is no reasoning with them because they are a priori correct. The reject anything that challenges these a priori conclusions and justify it with an appeal to some authority like read it somewhere, saw all the people doing it, all the experts are saying it and so on.

So are you gay and a religious family member is clashing with you? Or do they believe sex before marriage is a cardinal sin?

They also have violent mood swings. Regular rage rampages when they say some truly horrible things. I though about writing some of that stuff down, just in case I want to truly hurt somebody in the future. Though they're not really mood swings, it happens if something or somebody clashes with how they view reality. That becomes the most evil thing in the world and they are the mega victim, their suffering unrivaled. I've gotten use to them, but still something inside me dies a little everytime I'm subjected to it.

Inform them their emotional angst is a reaction formation from their own past gay experimentation snuffed under perceived impending punishment from God, the reaction being the apology. Tell them there's no need to be angry, because even the animals have tried it. Ask them if they hate animals.

Thinking about their life is also really painful. As they've thrown away their hopes, dreams and aspirations, basically their life, just to conform to societal roles. They could do so much and yet live like a slave. They have no ambition, aspirations, basically if something is not in front of their eyes it may as well not exist. They just think and see things that are here and now, leading to some truly horrible long term solutions. I can see it happening, I know what's going to happen, and it pains me to look at it.

Sounds like you two have an enmeshed relationship.

We don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. My ways and methods are seen as unintended mistakes on my part and they try to steer me on to the right path. I see their entire life as a waste of possibility and potential and see them as incompetent to give out the advice and guidance they give out so I reject it. This is the kind of person that were they an acquaintance I would forget about them almost instantly and would have no contact with them. My interaction with this person can be summed up as slowly dieing inside, and it's gotten to the point where I'm actually developing medical conditions like ulcers because of their impact on my life. I use to be a high energy, constantly active person, doing ten things at once, and now I spend a lot of my time just trying to calm myself down.

So I'm wondering what relation is it and can it be improved?

To be serious.. the only way to improve it is through you two separating. That would require you to stop acting like a baby and get your shit together, though. If you give me this persons birthdate I can tell you more about what their exact psychological issue is. Otherwise that's about it.

What if I have no intention of ever getting a respectable job? Not not getting a job in general, just nothing respectable? Am I then … fucked?

Oh God... just as I suspected.

EDIT: Let me restate that, what if I have no intention of ever doing what they want of me?

Now you're sounding more like a preteen, and this thread is looking like you whining for your mother. You very casually shrug off the solution to your problem. Clearly the problem isn't going to be solved, due to your unwillingness. Well that's your own damn fault. If you aren't interested in solving your problems, why are you here? To be bullshitted and to have people feel sorry for you. Well you can fuck off.

Well ... I would disagree. Unless sorrow and revulsion are indicative of love. And for them, well, I'm convinced that parental love is no love. They love a child. If I were a serial killer they would still love me. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.

Now this just pisses me off. They love a child because you refuse to stop acting like a child. Grow the fuck up and maybe they can love an adult instead. I don't know your parents, maybe they are fuck ups. But that really has nothing to do with you. You aren't a fucking victim of everyone else. Do you have any balls of your own? Take some fucking responsiblity and maybe you can stop blaming on everyone else instead, you pussy.