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Thread: ESI or IEI

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    Default ESI or IEI

    I have been directed here to ask you guys what would be the major differences between ESI and IEI apart from the functions ofc. How do I tell them apart? apparently I'm either one or the other.


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    Ni and Fi base are so different from one another; the first inhibits time and absorbs other people's activities; the latter loves people and interpersonal connections and finds it hard to be too aggressive as they sense their own feelings and feel bad for others, trying not to hurt relations; the first could care less about the things they say in a general environment of a specific person sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Ni and Fi base are so different from one another; the first inhibits time and absorbs other people's activities; the latter loves people and interpersonal connections and finds it hard to be too aggressive as they sense their own feelings and feel bad for others, trying not to hurt relations; the first could care less about the things they say in a general environment of a specific person sometimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa
    No and I'm going to try to explain this again. When a person is concerned with the impression they make, they can tailor or suit themselves to the environment, being socially conscious, which is extravert. I'm not. That is not what I'm concerned with. I just to the work to my personal satisfaction, without so much a concern about all the social cues and opinions not only about me but of my work. I'm following my own internal standards, this is why I'm able to bypass all the hostility and seek comfort and haven with a few people who I make connections with in a hostile environment, continuing to work and do as I do.
    I'm kinda reading this that you're typing yourself as Ni base. I suppose I don't understand how you could not care about the social cues and in particular the opinions of those around you whilst wanting to avoid being aggressive and feeling bad for others. I mean if you didn't care it would be a licence to be aggressive and not feel bad for others, eh not caring about what they (you) said about a specific person?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I'm kinda reading this that you're typing yourself as Ni base. I suppose I don't understand how you could not care about the social cues and in particular the opinions of those around you whilst wanting to avoid being aggressive and feeling bad for others. I mean if you didn't care it would be a licence to be aggressive and not feel bad for others, eh not caring about what they (you) said about a specific person?
    extraverts read social cues for me; what I posted has nothing to do with either Ni or Fi in the typing thread. Unlike Ni types, I don't accumulate weaknesses in others to hurt them with it. it's the whole power/hierarchy thing they have as Beta Se valuers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    I'm kinda reading this that you're typing yourself as Ni base. I suppose I don't understand how you could not care about the social cues and in particular the opinions of those around you whilst wanting to avoid being aggressive and feeling bad for others. I mean if you didn't care it would be a licence to be aggressive and not feel bad for others, eh not caring about what they (you) said about a specific person?
    Exactly, something doesn't fit. In Socionics land you either don't care about social cues or you do; i.e. you more often manage your interal feelings and release them according to social cues (Fe) or you more often override social cues because you are overwhelmed by your internal emotions (Fi). Maritsa cares a lot about the social cues she uses. It's a kabuki act. Other EIIs I know are perfectly willing to identify what they like or dislike and emotionally react accordingly, that is the definition of Fi leading. I'm swinging closer to typing Maritsa ESE confirm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    extraverts read social cues for me; what I posted has nothing to do with either Ni or Fi in the typing thread. Unlike Ni types, I don't accumulate weaknesses in others to hurt them with it. it's the whole power/hierarchy thing they have as Beta Se valuers.
    OK

    I'll try one more time, in both you are talking about you But I don't know which one it is, I mean at least if you are going to distinguish for this OP what's Fi and what isn't i'm sure they should both tie up as it's about you.

    I didn't do it because it's too complex for me to do it without talking about functions, maybe at least I know, why confuse the OP and everyone else.

    But I think it's crazy to say that only extraverts care about what people around them think, everyone has to care to some degree unless they are hermits, then you don't have to worry about bathing either which would rule out all the Si types being recluses I suppose or introverts going by what you are don't seem to know what you are saying.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Exactly, something doesn't fit. In Socionics land you either don't care about social cues or you do. Maritsa cares a lot about the social cues she uses. It's a kabuki act. Other EIIs I know are perfectly willing to identify what they like or dislike and emotionally react accordingly, that is the definition of Fi leading. I'm swinging closer to typing Maritsa ESE confirm.
    No, Fi types identify what they don't want to produce in others. If I feel like something I say will inappropriately hurt someone I won't say, but from the standpoint of what it can possibly produce as opposed to the actual production of that saying. Which allows FiNe to be sensitive to others; this isn't about social cues, this is about person, one on one views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    No, Fi types identify what they don't want to produce in others. If I feel like something I say will inappropriately hurt someone I won't say, but from the standpoint of what it can possibly produce as opposed to the actual production of that saying. Which allows FiNe to be sensitive to others; this isn't about social cues, this is about person, one on one views.
    Nope, bullshit. Your version of events does not fully explain the behavioural models of ESE/EIE. Fi can be sensitive to others only when the internal emotional state is aligned with the external social cues.

    Introverted judging elements are selective. They choose right, they choose wrong. They do not include by ranking and choosing the best outcome, that is extrovert judging elements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    Nope, bullshit. It can be sensitive to others only when the internal emotional state is aligned with the external social cues.
    external cues are Fe.

    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

    Fe "Motive" - FeNi, FeSi
    External behavior or cues belie the inner disposition or motive.

    Fe observes the display of feeling or disposition and analyzes motive, the catalyst of the feeling or disposition. Fe analyzes based on a particular disposition or emotional cues. Finely tuned Fe can be "people-smart" and pay attention to determining who is trustworthy and what to expect from their behavior based on hints of emotional and behavioral expressions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    external cues are Fe.
    I don't know who random blog person Lana is, so I don't care. Please quote me Augusta or even Jung thx.

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    <.< it feels like I just walked in on a bunch of people arguing...but really..a bunch of arguing people just walked in on me...how odd.


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
    = Fear is a cage where you locked yourself up. Courage & faith in yourself is the key to freedom. =
    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

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    yeah, both Jim and Words have a special knack for taking subjects off topic.

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    Does thou knoweth any difference then? ^^; I can read people like open books lol..:| intention, body language, tonality of voice, context, essence of ppl etc it all comes together rather easy for me to my eternal dismay, as negative environments and people with ill intention are a plenty. o.o negative social environments are a pain and I like to avoid them and the ppl, keep calm, keep cool and smile, stay on their good side.

    With people who know me this is different. My parents tend to remark that I'm a ass with them and friends, while friendly with strangers...thou I did prove them wrong when I threatened a bunch of strangers and yelled at them lolol because they scared me (counterphobia?).

    o.o I have found that I can and will use Fi & Fe in equal measure no problem.


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
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    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rim View Post
    Does thou knoweth any difference then? ^^; I can read people like open books lol..:| intention, body language, tonality of voice, context, essence of ppl etc it all comes together rather easy for me to my eternal dismay, as negative environments and people with ill intention are a plenty. o.o negative social environments are a pain and I like to avoid them and the ppl, keep calm, keep cool and smile, stay on their good side.

    With people who know me this is different. My parents tend to remark that I'm a ass with them and friends, while friendly with strangers...thou I did prove them wrong when I threatened a bunch of strangers and yelled at them lolol because they scared me (counterphobia?).

    o.o I have found that I can and will use Fi & Fe in equal measure no problem.
    I don't think either Fi or Fe is dominant with you; they make take on lessor roles then; something else may have upper hands like Se, Te, Ni, or Ti

    When you read people what are you looking at/for that gives you a perception of them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I don't think either Fi or Fe is dominant with you; they make take on lessor roles then; something else may have upper hands like Se, Te, Ni, or Ti

    When you read people what are you looking at/for that gives you a perception of them?
    Its a passive thing, I don't actively do it. I just pick up on how they feel, what their intention is, whether something bothers them or not, whether they are truthful/honest or not. It just comes to me and I can feel the anger, happiness, calm, discomfort and so on in social situations. I understand who someone else is deep down rather quickly. With a bit of effort I can combine this with what I know about them, the current context and I can extrapolate possibilities as to what is actually going on with them. The problem is that I can't shut it off so I pick up on all the negative crap as well and I suck it up which makes me moody and dependent on the external emotional atmosphere.

    <.< other then that i'm headstrong and only subvert my own feelings if I can benefit from doing so, for example I don't tell my boss off but I may tell my friend or a stranger to fuck off if he/she is pissing me off. ....unless the stranger is buff and could beat the shit out of me hehe.


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
    = Fear is a cage where you locked yourself up. Courage & faith in yourself is the key to freedom. =
    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

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    iei

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    iei
    Reason? Based on what logic? o.o *curious


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
    = Fear is a cage where you locked yourself up. Courage & faith in yourself is the key to freedom. =
    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

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    ^

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    irlol. poor rim.

    i want to answer but i don't know how. maybe exploring the differences between gamma & beta and Fe/Ti & Te/Fi... but that's just stating the obvious. i think on the immediate surface ieis seem nicer and esis more standoffish and evaluating but that's so subjective and floofy.

    the best advice i can think of is to just hold off while typing other people and checking out celebrities that are pretty much agreed on and reading things and eventually it will kind of come together and start to make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    irlol. poor rim.

    i want to answer but i don't know how. maybe exploring the differences between gamma & beta and Fe/Ti & Te/Fi... but that's just stating the obvious. i think on the immediate surface ieis seem nicer and esis more standoffish and evaluating but that's so subjective and floofy.

    the best advice i can think of is to just hold off while typing other people and checking out celebrities that are pretty much agreed on and reading things and eventually it will kind of come together and start to make sense.
    Hmm I'm uncomfortable with how IEI is depicted: romantic flowery dramatic fickle...sounds like Loras Tyrell from Game of Thrones (The Knight of Flowers
    Ser Daisy)...meh.


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
    = Fear is a cage where you locked yourself up. Courage & faith in yourself is the key to freedom. =
    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

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    i'm pretty sure a lot of people who self-type iei wouldn't describe themselves in those terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rim View Post
    Hmm I'm uncomfortable with how IEI is depicted: romantic flowery dramatic fickle...sounds like Loras Tyrell from Game of Thrones (The Knight of Flowers
    Ser Daisy)...meh.
    what are you like then? "fuck your sers" like hound?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aiss View Post
    what are you like then? "fuck your sers" like hound?
    ...nope. I am myself lol. Ok, the reason the ESI -IEI dilemma stands is that some think I'm Te-PoLR, while others argue that I'm actually Suggestive Te and it only comes off as PoLR because its weak. This is a problem because I'm a six and as a 6 I'm skeptical, self doubting and prone to question, over-think... require certainty. I can't figure out which one it is. How do I figure it out?
    Last edited by Rim; 04-30-2013 at 05:45 PM.


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
    = Fear is a cage where you locked yourself up. Courage & faith in yourself is the key to freedom. =
    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rim View Post
    Hmm I'm uncomfortable with how IEI is depicted: romantic flowery dramatic fickle...sounds like Loras Tyrell from Game of Thrones (The Knight of Flowers
    Ser Daisy)...meh.
    There may be IEIís who fit that description, but there are also many who donít.

    Perhaps you could look it from the perspective of whose needs you might best meet. The dual of the IEI is the SLE, who needs the perspective of Ni and the reassurance of Fe that the IEI can contribute.
    The LIE benefits from the ESIís Fi, while helping the ESI with Te.
    Also, ESIís have pretty good use of Se, while that is an IEIís dual-seeking function. So there is a pretty clear difference there.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Ni and Fi base are so different from one another; the first inhibits time and absorbs other people's activities; the latter loves people and interpersonal connections and finds it hard to be too aggressive as they sense their own feelings and feel bad for others, trying not to hurt relations; the first could care less about the things they say in a general environment of a specific person sometimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Unlike Ni types, I don't accumulate weaknesses in others to hurt them with it. it's the whole power/hierarchy thing they have as Beta Se valuers.
    It appears as if you are saying that Ni types don't care if they hurt others, whereas Fi types do care if they hurt others. It seems to me that Ni types also have the capacity to care about not hurting others, but perhaps I misunderstood what I read in the quotes, or am wrong in my understanding of Ni types.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rim View Post
    ...nope. I am myself lol. Ok, the reason the ESI -IEI dilemma stands is that some think I'm Te-PoLR, while others argue that I'm actually Suggestive Te and it only comes off as PoLR because its weak. This is a problem because I'm a six and as a 6 I'm skeptical, self doubting and prone to question, over-think... require certainty. I can't figure out which one it is. How do I figure it out?
    in the case of the Te thing, you could consider and observe your reactions to people who are Te base. it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out if they rub you the wrong way or if you appreciate their input. and if it is maybe you don't have strong Fi lol.
    (this assumes you have typed people Te base but if you haven't maybe you could talk to a few on the forum. i wouldn't recommend going by your feeling of celebrities or people you don't actually interact with.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rim View Post
    ...nope. I am myself lol. Ok, the reason the ESI -IEI dilemma stands is that some think I'm Te-PoLR, while others argue that I'm actually Suggestive Te and it only comes off as PoLR because its weak. This is a problem because I'm a six and as a 6 I'm skeptical, self doubting and prone to question, over-think... require certainty. I can't figure out which one it is. How do I figure it out?

    this.
    my Te is kind of weak too. also because of prone to asking a ton of questions...skeptical. definitely second-guess myself/decisions at times.



    Get on Tinychat sometime so we can see you in action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Get on Tinychat sometime so we can see you in action.
    ya

    tinychat.com/socksrus or tinychat.com/chickenshack

    (i don't know which one is being used more these days)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    It appears as if you are saying that Ni types don't care if they hurt others, whereas Fi types do care if they hurt others. It seems to me that Ni types also have the capacity to care about not hurting others, but perhaps I misunderstood what I read in the quotes, or am wrong in my understanding of Ni types.
    I believe IEI is a good example of a type which is acutely sensitive to presenting their viewpoints in a way as to not hurt others. Far more in excess than EII.

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    I'm friends with two EIIs (my guess is Fi subtype) and they're both fairly neurotic. we've grown a part for sure. but they say shit all the time intended to hurt my feelings and/or gauge how much I care for them.

    IEIs are pretty easy on that front-- you'll usually always know where you stand with them. if they like, they're nice although they'll still be wishy-washy towards you. if they don't like you, they're dicks to you.

    I'm an ESI who hates people but also likes to fit in (at times). I wish I was around more ESIs to gauge how they act because it's so peculiar. I wanna pick their brains why ESIs are so fuckin weird. WHY CAN'T WE JUST BE FRIENDLY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    this.
    my Te is kind of weak too. also because of prone to asking a ton of questions...skeptical. definitely second-guess myself/decisions at times.



    Get on Tinychat sometime so we can see you in action.
    Does this involve chatting via webcam?

    ....oh man its 2 AM again. Every freaking time I lose track -,-....going to feel sick tomorrow again. I hate sick leave.


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
    = Fear is a cage where you locked yourself up. Courage & faith in yourself is the key to freedom. =
    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

  32. #32
    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    It does.


    go to bed

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    Rim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    It does.


    go to bed
    Its a date then >D. Tell me when.


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
    = Fear is a cage where you locked yourself up. Courage & faith in yourself is the key to freedom. =
    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

  34. #34
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    Rimjob.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Te seeking is asking if someone can help you make a decision ------- "Which one should I do?" that's a common question asked by Te DS.

    The Te PoLR doesn't much like being told what to do as they would rather figure that out themselves on their own comfort, time and terms. Hence not accepting information in that weak function. Conflict arises between conflict relations because eventually Te leading types stop pamper loving their mates and asking them things to do, and the Te PoLR humans pretty much mess things up because they have difficulty receiving direct information flow to that function. Example

    An LSE will ask IEI "go buy some sheets with this money" and the IEI will spend it on something else.

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    *An LSE will ask IEI "go buy some sheets with this money" and the IEI won't find the exact specifications of said sheet, then panic and spend hours in the store trying to figure out on what front to budge on. And in the end they'll buy the wrong thing.*

    ^Is a much more accurate example of Te Polr IMO.
    Based on the majority of things said, i'd have to say IEI is much more likely than ESI.

    " I just pick up on how they feel, what their intention is, whether something bothers them or not, whether they are truthful/honest or not. It just comes to me and I can feel the anger, happiness, calm, discomfort and so on in social situations." - Ni+Fe

    "My parents tend to remark that I'm a ass with them and friends, while friendly with strangers" Definitely an IEI trait. Dealing with strangers, im stupidly polite. It's been remarked upon many times. When i get comfortable around friends, totally different person. If you can't take a joke... then it's your fault if you get offended.

    "I have found that I can and will use Fi & Fe in equal measure no problem." - Much more likely with a Fe creative - Fi demonstrative than an Fi leading - Fe ignoring.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    *An LSE will ask IEI "go buy some sheets with this money" and the IEI won't find the exact specifications of said sheet, then panic and spend hours in the store trying to figure out on what front to budge on. And in the end they'll buy the wrong thing.*

    ^Is a much more accurate example of Te Polr IMO.
    Based on the majority of things said, i'd have to say IEI is much more likely than ESI.
    Yes, thank you Pookie. Trying to make up hypotheticals for other types is hard sometimes

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    Te suggestives like me, not only ask for advice to determine right course of action, but we also follow the directive requests of LSE, because they are by archetype "the director" who directs the actions of others and tries to encircle production into their hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    *An LSE will ask IEI "go buy some sheets with this money" and the IEI won't find the exact specifications of said sheet, then panic and spend hours in the store trying to figure out on what front to budge on. And in the end they'll buy the wrong thing.*
    One more point I have to make with this regard is that IEI unlike myself does not go over the specific request with an LSE beforehand; if I were told to buy sheets, I would ask what kind, design, brand, name fabric all the details before going to the store and IEI doesn't so they go to the store with very little info to narrow their choice, get confused and buy something else, and then come home and tell their LSE who gets upset that they've spent the money on something else (because the LSE will say "well, why didn't you just come home without having bought something else"). This is a very clear difference between EII and IEI. When the conflict arises, the IEI will blame the LSE for not having gone over the specifics with her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    One more point I have to make with this regard is that IEI unlike myself does not go over the specific request with an LSE beforehand; if I were told to buy sheets, I would ask what kind, design, brand, name fabric all the details before going to the store and IEI doesn't so they go to the store with very little info to narrow their choice, get confused and buy something else, and then come home and tell their LSE who gets upset that they've spent the money on something else (because the LSE will say "well, why didn't you just come home without having bought something else"). This is a very clear difference between EII and IEI. When the conflict arises, the IEI will blame the LSE for not having gone over the specifics with her.
    o.o hmm I have no problem with instructions as long as I am asked nicely, however its not a general thing for me to ask people to tell me what to do (that actually reminds me of my mother...she asks how she should do almost everything). In practical matters I probably know better then others anyway what I want. In personal matters I reject outside counsel and do what I want anyway. I need advice on stuff like socionics for example, and may or may not agree/accept what is given to me, depends on it making sense.

    What I struggle the most with in my life:

    - lack of ability to maintain routine & discipline (I can't maintain any routine ...I'm not even sure why I just can't. I keep trying thou lol. )
    - have a very hard time maintaining orderly physical environment, however this also effects my mood as things around me turn badly disorganized
    - I give too much importance to how others see me and their opinions of me stress me out....but I can't submit to anything i don't want to do either so :S grrrrr
    - lack of motivation
    - lack of direction in life aka meaning
    - staying in touch with people in long distance relationships ( impossible )
    - start things and then never finish them cus its hard to stay on track
    - I over-analyze things, people, situations

    Something else that might be odd is that I consider myself a irrational dom negativist...sometimes I get this feeling IEE fits rather well from the description but idk.

    Derailing thoughts:

    I also don't do well with people who are indirect and indecisive. I prefer people to be blunt with me and direct / honest, because if they aren't I'll sense it and that pisses me off. In general I tend to be willful / headstrong and do what I want/think is right. If I disagree with things one can expect me to bluntly speak my mind, in general I prefer to be blunt and direct in speech, but will adapt to the situation if being myself isn't going to work.

    Some things I can't stand in other people: whining and giving up, amorality, sly deceitful behavior and being an ass or the worst one.. forcing people to do one's bidding. ^^; to all these I react very badly with force, passion, a clear NO and strong assertion of my own principles. Can be unyielding and extremely willful.

    PS I enjoy good not fake or non idiotic empowering emotionally loaded content such as this:



    Last edited by Rim; 05-01-2013 at 07:25 PM.


    Big5 rxUa|I| 6w7- 4 - 1 So/Sx
    = Fear is a cage where you locked yourself up. Courage & faith in yourself is the key to freedom. =
    = Shit happens. Realx and make the most of it. You can not control what is outside of yourself. =
    Alignment: Neutral Good-ish / Snarky-Needy Bastard

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