Accepting and Producing for rationals

[rahmyn]

Rational types: What is it like to have your lead function as an accepting element, and your creative function as a producing element?

From what I understand, the accepting elements are generally (though not exclusively) geared toward gaining a picture of reality. To me this sounds like it goes hand-in-hand with irrationality. And the producing elements are geared toward creating something new, which would seem to involve one's perceptions coalescing into a conclusion. As an irrational type, it is difficult for me to understand how a judging type would experience accepting/producing in their ego block. Any thoughts?

[xerx]

Would like some feedback on this as well.
To me, at their most rational, they appear to genuinely believe their unambiguous opinions about "complicated" stuff.

(I also wonder whether they think in terms of language -- which I sure as hell don't)

[DirectorAbbie]

I accept logic and I produce tangible items? What exactly confuses you?

[krieger]

Rational types: What is it like to have your lead function as an accepting element, and your creative function as a producing element?

that goes for all types. i think you're a little confused about the definitions of the terms you're using.

[xerx]

that goes for all types. i think you're a little confused about the definitions of the terms you're using.

No. He was defining irrationality as the faculty that allows us to experience "raw" unfiltered reality and noticing that this is also how accepting functions can be defined. Similarly, rationality, as the faculty that allows us to "produce" conclusions from the raw noise, appears to have the same definition as producing functions.

I think you're a little confused about what he's asking.

[krieger]

No. He was defining irrationality as the faculty that allows us to experience "raw" unfiltered reality and noticing that this is also how accepting functions can be defined. Similarly, rationality, as the faculty that allows us to "produce" conclusions from the raw noise, appears to have the same definition as producing functions.

I think you're a little confused about what he's asking.

none of that is of any pertinence to his bastardizing usage of the term "lead function". since you didn't even address the issue it is evident the confusion in entirely on your end.

[xerx]

none of that is of any pertinence to his bastardizing usage of the term "lead function". since you didn't even address the issue it is evident the confusion in entirely on your end.

"What is it like to have your lead function as an accepting element"

In light of the second paragraph, can be rewritten as: "what is it like to have a rational function as an accepting element". Likewise: "what is it like to have an irrational producing element"

It's a straightforward inquiry with no bastardization involved. And nitpicking at it doesn't change the meaning that's trivially read into it from the rest of the thread.

[krieger]

i'm not reading any of that. this window is closed.

[rahmyn]

that goes for all types. i think you're a little confused about the definitions of the terms you're using.

I might be confused, but let me clarify what I meant. By "your lead function" I was meaning a rational function. Same with "your creative function" referring to an irrational function. That's why I directed the question specifically to rationals. However, I am still somewhat new to socionics, so if I still don't seem to know what the hell I am asking, then that might be the case.

[rahmyn]

I accept logic and I produce tangible items? What exactly confuses you?

I guess what confuses me is how one gains a picture of the world through a function that is not taking in the world in a relatively unfiltered way. If you have a T function as lead function, does that mean you don't take in information that doesn't jive with your existing logic outlook? I am assuming not, but I don't know how it works for you... that's why i am asking.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I guess what confuses me is how one gains a picture of the world through a function that is not taking in the world in a relatively unfiltered way. If you have a T function as lead function, does that mean you don't take in information that doesn't jive with your existing logic outlook? I am assuming not, but I don't know how it works for you... that's why i am asking.

Does this concept actually apply in Socionics? All eight IEs are cognitive lenses, filters determining which information we choose to focus on and prioritize.

[rahmyn]

Does this concept actually apply in Socionics? All eight IEs are cognitive lenses, filters determining which information we choose to focus on and prioritize.

Yes, but is it not fair to say that irrational functions are relatively more unfiltered? I'm not looking for absolutes here.

This isn't directed at you Ryene... but why is it so difficult to get an answer on these boards? Does every word need to be nitpicked into oblivion and buried under catty jokes? Just a general observation as a new person to this forum. I'd really like to discuss socionics. If anyone gets what I mean by my question, and has something to offer, I would love to hear it.

If you want to deconstruct my question, then do what floats your boat. I understand that you have to know what I mean to be able to answer. It seems one person on here gets what I am asking, so hopefully there will be a few more.

[krieger]

i think it mostly just means that you try to hold off from intuitively or sensately recognizing a concept or object until after you've carefully considered what it is, how it is roughly structured. basically not being distracted by noisy, dissonant elements of life until you find the structural deliniations within said noise and identify something worth trying to recognize among it.

rationals have Creating P functions, which i interpret to mean that the recognizing (P) is done after a bout of cognitive work (Creating), using an analytical tool derived from said work.

[Pookie]

For IJs its easier for me to see the trappings of a producing subtype. Basing this off a lsi(se) and a eii(ne)- with the lsi he would still need that alone time typical of introvert when they need to recharge, but he would push for reactions and "will" movement from oghers to get things going. Kind of like catalyzing an event to happen but then allowing someone else to take reign of the event and providi g those bursts of se when necassary to keep things going.

With the eii, when a possible conflict would emerge she would sit down, and she would expound on the ways things could happen. Essentially cover her bases and work out a plan of action or more accurately a plan of reacting to whatever might happen and end up with her in a positive endgame. Her te was pretty good so she could align her "excuse" or defense with that of trump card esque facts/realities that people couldnt prove otherwise.

In both situations they used elements of their p functions to get themselves where they wanted to be.

[ashlesha]

maybe its taking things less at face value.
"holy shit, a cat with three heads!" versus
"a cat with three heads? that can't be right, based on my understanding of how the world works. lemme count those heads again..."
but even then both people would see a cat with three heads first, before thinking about it. so pffff.

[DirectorAbbie]

I guess what confuses me is how one gains a picture of the world through a function that is not taking in the world in a relatively unfiltered way. If you have a T function as lead function, does that mean you don't take in information that doesn't jive with your existing logic outlook? I am assuming not, but I don't know how it works for you... that's why i am asking.

Well, sort of. If I see a leprechaun wearing pink, I will either have to conclude that it is not a leprechaun or that leprechauns don't always wear green...or that I didn't see a leprechaun wearing pink in the first place. So I look again. It's still there and it's still wearing pink. I go to reliable sources and ask some honest Irish people whether leprechauns ever wear pink. They assure me that they do not, so I conclude that I have encountered a weird midget with a poor sense of fashion.

...does that answer any questions at all?

[SlavaPHP]

Accepting and producing is a bit confusing to me... since we have to learn how to produce, by accepting systems? As far as I understand... the excepting function builds a world inside of you that is all interconnected. With Ne you unify all the concepts into one primary device (machine, which includes all concepts compressed and compacted) producing function explains the perceived concept in the accepting function, using descriptions. But like I said you need to have a system for explaining things... ie learning technical jargon to express yourself...

[SlavaPHP]

Here is an example of sensoric accepting function...

375084929_8b385d795b_m.jpg

penis-weapon.jpg

It's two sexual forms unified into one... (sort of like data compression and reinforcement) .... i also have a believe that connecting concepts will reduce the chances of Alzheimers... because lost data can be retrieved with other nearby connections.... but that's just a theory of mine...

check out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary_coder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huffman_coding

[SlavaPHP]

... Producing subtypes types focus on explaining their accepting function... Accepting subtypes focus on unifying the things they have accepted... (Being one with everything)

[SlavaPHP]

in elementary school in physics they taught us about electrons.. then in chem we learned about electrons... later I realized they were the same thing but in a different context.... accepting Ne

[Saberstorm]

... Producing subtypes types focus on explaining their accepting function... Accepting subtypes focus on unifying the things they have accepted... (Being one with everything)

That works for Extram types. In Reinin, the Extram type creates context. The Intram type produces a product.

Thus the Producing subtype of an Intram personality takes what they have accepted and produces an new object with it, (as Ne is object based???)

The accepting subtype of an intram would be unifying the ideas that they have accepting into an "explanatory filter" to be used in system of object production. This would be a production process, not as Te, but as a finished conceptual model, like an explanatory filter for the design of an aircrafts flight envelope?)