The vs function of personal knowledge

[SlavaPHP]

if every type has a function of personal knowledge then why is enfp esfp hidden agenda.. to know?

[Aiss]

stop. it's socionics. it's not supposed to make sense.

[SlavaPHP]

model a function of personal knowledge... an esfp is to know.... does that mean they focus on their Si more than other types focus on their function of personal knowledge ?

[anndelise]

model a function of personal knowledge... an esfp is to know.... does that mean they focus on their Si more than other types focus on their function of personal knowledge ?

No, like William said, it's related to their Te.
Just like for Ti creative, it's related to their Fe.
For Ne creative types, it's related to their Si.
Etc.

[SlavaPHP]

Te shouldn't be to know... everyone knows things

[anndelise]

Te shouldn't be to know... everyone knows things

Yes, every type knows things, but not every type is driven to experience or know a variety of different things.

You could just as easily say that everyone understands things, so the Ti HA shouldn't be to understand. Or everyone wants to be healthy, so Si HA shouldn,t be to be healthy. Etc.

The hidden agenda is information which mobilizes a type. It 'governs their intention and behavior', it's something that they have a difficult time with, but actively strive for.

For example, my daughter (SeFi) has been interested in yarn crafts for quite a few years. Crochet, tatting, weaving, etc. She's also a social creature who wants to learn and do these things with others. So I (NeFi) have been learning them as well so I can get to some of the basic principles of the craft she wants to do, to make it easier to teach her or help her learn. (she doesn't read/hear for learning, she prefers to see/do, and due to the autism related factor, she needs things to be very specific and well planned out)

Ok, so while I'm learning these things, and helping her learn, I pick up on the basic principles faster and I get bored more easily than her, so I start moving into more complex things BEFORE I have the actual skill level. I also tend to jump around in the general subject, primarily because I just want to know the basics of it, and see if it's something I like. I can't be consistent in anything, nor stick with anything, even if I like it, because a new topic always enters the picture, and I then want to delve into that a little bit. She does too. She'll see me branching out, think what I am learning looks interesting, and will want to learn that too. (as long as it's something rather concrete.)

But wait, you say, Ti creatives also do similar. Well yes, but there are a few differences.
Ti creative is also Te demonstrative. So 3d Ti = 4d Te. It,s a vital (subconscious) strength of theirs, without having to put in much effort, and it's subdued rather than valued, so they see no need to try to improve it.

While 3d Fi creative = 2d Te HA. Which means that it is a weakness. It is also a valued element. So they work towards strengthening it. 2d deals with rules and norms, and is part of the developing process between personal experience (1d) and handling situational differences (3d). It's like trying to learn the rules or norms before learning how and when those rules/norms can be broken or deviated from. ExFp may never get to the situational side of a topic, and most likely won't, having instead moved on to something else to learn a little about.

[Radio]

Because Model A sucks and Ganin who came up with the idea of HA is not an authority on typology, much less types or people.

[Pookie]

You can always count on anndelise to clear the bases for you.

[SlavaPHP]

Yes, every type knows things, but not every type is driven to experience or know a variety of different things.

You could just as easily say that everyone understands things, so the Ti HA shouldn't be to understand. Or everyone wants to be healthy, so Si HA shouldn,t be to be healthy. Etc.

The hidden agenda is information which mobilizes a type. It 'governs their intention and behavior', it's something that they have a difficult time with, but actively strive for.

For example, my daughter (SeFi) has been interested in yarn crafts for quite a few years. Crochet, tatting, weaving, etc. She's also a social creature who wants to learn and do these things with others. So I (NeFi) have been learning them as well so I can get to some of the basic principles of the craft she wants to do, to make it easier to teach her or help her learn. (she doesn't read/hear for learning, she prefers to see/do, and due to the autism related factor, she needs things to be very specific and well planned out)

Ok, so while I'm learning these things, and helping her learn, I pick up on the basic principles faster and I get bored more easily than her, so I start moving into more complex things BEFORE I have the actual skill level. I also tend to jump around in the general subject, primarily because I just want to know the basics of it, and see if it's something I like. I can't be consistent in anything, nor stick with anything, even if I like it, because a new topic always enters the picture, and I then want to delve into that a little bit. She does too. She'll see me branching out, think what I am learning looks interesting, and will want to learn that too. (as long as it's something rather concrete.)

But wait, you say, Ti creatives also do similar. Well yes, but there are a few differences.
Ti creative is also Te demonstrative. So 3d Ti = 4d Te. It,s a vital (subconscious) strength of theirs, without having to put in much effort, and it's subdued rather than valued, so they see no need to try to improve it.

While 3d Fi creative = 2d Te HA. Which means that it is a weakness. It is also a valued element. So they work towards strengthening it. 2d deals with rules and norms, and is part of the developing process between personal experience (1d) and handling situational differences (3d). It's like trying to learn the rules or norms before learning how and when those rules/norms can be broken or deviated from. ExFp may never get to the situational side of a topic, and most likely won't, having instead moved on to something else to learn a little about.

You're right... Ti isn't to understand... it pretty much boils down to this....

ENTp Hidden agenda is....extraverted ethics = internal dynamics of objects

That means that they don't do Fe and need Fe gratification to feel whole..

Someone with Ti Hidden agenda needs credit for doing... introverted logic = external statics of fields....

There is no judgement or perception, just information spaces and data structures... (ie. Implication -> vs inequality >)

I like the external/internal statics/dynamics fields/objects better than Ti/Ti Fi/Fe Si/Se Ni/Ne

[SlavaPHP]

Implication (a -> b), inequality (a > b), association (a ~ b), definition (a = b) ... value operator value, for all of them... same structure though the only difference is the operator you use.

[SlavaPHP]

one problem with any system, including the statics/dynamics... is that they are all constructed in one point of view... a field can be an object and and object can be a field... we just have to pick one and work with it. A bit depressing since it implies that there is a limit to how far you can take socionics.