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Thread: Feeling vs Subconscious

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    SlavaPHP's Avatar
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    Cool Feeling vs Subconscious

    I think that since ENTp's created Socionics there is a little bias....

    I believe that feeling in the world of an ENTp refers to their subconscious function, but to feeling types feeling isn't really a feeling.. there is structure and order... F types feel with Thinking... T types feel with ethics....
    -Slava

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    feelings should be renamed as subjective logic
    thinking should be renamed as objective logic
    subconscious should be renamed to feelings
    -Slava

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    I disagree, I don't think the judgement functions deal with the subconscious at all expect through programming via rote.

    I also think having an extroverted slant tends to change how they behave to give more external respect to conclusions as they viewed as being 'better' than the internal conclusions. 'I dislike this person, but people tell me they are good people, so they are probably good people'. 'I think this is right but everyone is saying it is wrong, so it is probably wrong'. This can also be misconstrued as a tendancy towards objectivity simply due to an argument to moderation.

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    im not referring to judging functions... im just saying that people "feel" with their subconscious function, weather that feeling is Fe/Fi or not... you can feel with N, S F or T... i think the term feeling in socionics is a misnomer.
    -Slava

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Technically, within Socionics, it is Ethics and Logic, not Feeling and Thinking,
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    SlavaPHP's Avatar
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    I agree ... and Feeling should only be referred to as the subconscious... Just because ENTp aren't conscious of ethics, doesn't mean that ethics is unconscious for every other type
    -Slava

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    How much do you understand of Socionics? Are you new to it?
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

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    SlavaPHP's Avatar
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    I've been studying for some time now...since 2003... i use it to label things about people that i already knew.
    -Slava

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    Local Hero Saberstorm's Avatar
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    He seems very Russian...
     
    God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in Him.
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    Socionics -
    the16types.info

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    Creepy-bg

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    slava is old school 16types, from the early days. not russian, american.

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    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
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    I think socionics terminology is very good already as far as ethics/logic, introversion/extroversion, mental/vital ring.

    The use of feeling is confusing. ENTp's have conscious introverted ethics, and unconscious extroverted ethics and this is very evident.

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    SlavaPHP's Avatar
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    some people before mentioned that Extraverted functions are top-down, and introverted functions are bottom-up... what does internal/external exactly mean anyways?
    -Slava

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    maybe there is external-top-down external-bottom-up internal-top-down and internal-bottom-up
    -Slava

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlavaPHP View Post
    some people before mentioned that Extraverted functions are top-down, and introverted functions are bottom-up... what does internal/external exactly mean anyways?
    In aspectonics, external refers to information which is explicit..you can show it to someone and they will know what you are seeing. Internal refers to information which is implicit..it's the information which influences perception or judgment, but is more ambiguous and difficult to get across to someone else.
    Internal/external is different from object/field.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Also, in aspectonics, F and S deal with information that requires personal involvement. To see something, you must use your own eyes; to obtain the tactile info, you must personally feel it; etc. Just like to gain an understanding of ethical considerations, you must access your own emotions about the context.

    While N and T are abstract elements, they are removed enough from personal involvement that the information can be sent/received across time/space/whatever. We use words, symbols, formulas, etc to get across a concept. And we access information that we sense, but is so ambiguous even to ourselves that we are unable to fully detail out what led to that perception. (we call this last one Intuituion).

    As a fully abstract type (NT), it makes sense that you would see the fully involved (SF) elements as being subconsious.
    But please do not make the mistake of assuming that this is so for every other type.
    NFs and STs primarily deal with both abstract and involved information, but with NFs focusing on the info that is implicit, and STs focusing on info that is explicit.
    Also, to an SF, the involvment is their primary focus, with the abstract elements usually playing behind the scenes.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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