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Getting out of the Ne PoLR rut
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Last edited by Zenoa; 06-05-2013 at 02:35 AM. Reason: too many things socionically incorrect in this thread
The SLE has, effectively, set you up to fail by giving you an impossible task. If a similar situation occurs, it might help to get a new prospective by talking to coworkers about it rather than increasing your effort. Work shouldn't be about over-exertion at all.
Generally the way to deal with superego is to plan ahead. Don't improvise if you can avoid it. Plan ahead and consider possible scenarios and how you would deal with it. Don't wait until you actually are in that situation. If you succeed in this you can go on using strong functions and superego will not bother you too much. Superego can and should be used but it is not for creative work or improvising on the fly.
My thoughts - take with grain of salt, and may not apply to you. Ne polr isn't about any lack of resourcefulness - Se creative can actually lead to a great deal of resourcefulness and one article I read said Se-creatives can create money out of thin air etc. as an exaggeration on this attribute. I think instead it has more to do with getting locked-in to a decision and developing tunnel-vision. As in, I will see an option - the option seems like it will solve all the problems, so I decide to take it and every other option disappears.
As an example (sorry has to remain vague,) recently I was faced with a decision to make, and wasn't sure which way to approach it. A good friend told me to absolutely not take a certain option, and gave me other suggestions. I agreed, and was determined to follow this advice UNTIL an opportunity arose that I didn't think I should miss, and taking that opportunity led to a series of events where I felt like I had no choice BUT the option I had agreed not to take. It wasn't actually my only choice, but it seemed the easiest and most practical way out of the situation in the moment, and I locked into it. To me it was the only choice. And I took it. The desire to make a decision and finish something can override everything else at times.
BTW, in your example - how were you able to create a plan without knowing the problem could be solved? Plan = steps to take to reach goal, yes? If you had no achievable goal - what did that consist of? Was your plan just to try a bunch of stuff and see if any of it got you any closer? In the future, to avoid this, as soon as you see that something is dependent on factors outside of your control, list those factors and bring them to the attention of whoever has assigned you the task. Perhaps those things are not outside of their control - or perhaps they are, but you need to bring them up and show exactly what obstacles are stopping you. Get other heads in on the matter if possible for a second look as well, to see if you might just be missing something. But if you don't see a way to a solution, beating your head against everything in a vain attempt to chance upon a solution doesn't usually work very well.
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Last edited by Zenoa; 05-10-2013 at 01:17 AM.
Don't stress over it and take it with a gain of salt. Focus only what you have control of, and don't blow up under any circumstances.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
-- Mark Twain
"Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
-- Confucius
I would say Ne PoLR would involve directly speaking to your boss about this rather than leaving things undecided and with ambiguity.
Then thinking Sh*t maybe shouldn't have done that.
Or just leaving it till it's too late to do it.
Maybe get some advice from someone you work with who has Ni that you can reasonably confide in, see what their advice is.
It just seems you were too invested in the work. Unless you are working entirely for yourself, it's always best to be a bit detached and don't give 100%, lest being exploited.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
wow, you know how to type? HOW? Where? Why?
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Oh come on!Originally Posted by Ozz
this isn't the case at all, it's just how SLE work; they give people independence where LSI are a lot more likely to micromanage; stop being so suspicious.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It doesn't take a particularly intelligent person to study and to make sense of observations.
I agree. FTR though, micromanaging isn't my thing because I somehow enjoy it. It's simply because I'm quick to notice (and to be concerned) that certain things need to be in place before particular goals can be accomplished.
My boss is LSI and the manager is SLE, in that dynamics it's much worse because the LSI just is intense; be lucky you have SLE managing you because you're given the freedom to be as detailed as you like and structure things however you like; all SLE wants is that the work is done and that you tell them it is. They may track your activities sometimes, like recording your conversations, but as long as you're honest, that's all they care about; unbridled honesty. Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Thanks, this is good advice and I know for a fact that it works - provided you ensure that you do not make the same mistake ever, in their various permutations.
Last edited by Zenoa; 04-03-2013 at 04:37 AM.
Hi Maritsa. I have no idea whatever it was the intention of the SLE to set the OP to fail and I did not want to make that assertion at all. It's just not a good practice to give someone an impossible task. It could be very damaging to someone with an internal locus of control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1rlFtCDrw This guy nailed some good points
Interesting video
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Are you familiar with ISTps? What are the chances of my experience above, the result of Ne suggestive rather than Ne PoLR?
pretty high
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Why?
may I ask what you meant by your experience above? you mean in the original post? I don't think you're ISTp
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Nevertheless, I geared up for the challenge; laid out a relatively detailed plan and proceeded to attack the problem in every conceivable manner; leaving no stone unturned – no matter how remote the possibility of the bait being taken.
^ that is not associated with SiTe.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It's strange though, because ESFjs tend to irritate the hell out of me? There's one in my office who jabbers away and takes 2 mins to make a 10 second point.
My sister is ESFj and she's married to an ISTj; he's very very irritated of her.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
ISTjs are tactical. I am more tactical in action than strategic. I know X method works, I want to apply X method in as many situations as possible.
I've yet to experience any conflict with IEEs though.
I know, I just noticed; I haven't had enough sleep today
Believe me semi dual relations are annoying.
My sister is carefree, nonchalant, very goofy, laid back, loose, and teases with the intention of yanking emotions around; LSI are far more serious.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'm so fucking sorry.
ILE; INTP
5w6 so; rcUe|I|;
How does this play out in the long run? What must the LSI do in order to stay under the SLE's radar? Assuming that the boss is SLE and the subordinate LSI.
I've been thinking about this, and apologizing in a laughing tone won't work- it's hard enough to get a laugh out of me on a typical day. Apologizing to the SLE has to be done very carefully too - no chinks in the armor (minor, one-off ones are still acceptable) or else.Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."
As I am for your pitiable Fi PoLR. I hope it didn't ruin too many of your relationships.
No one escapes the SLE's radar, they are equaly testy and suspicious of everyone; that is associated with the Se valuing function; look it up in Jung's book; something to do with paranoia; LSE are also paranoid for different reasons, probably that they are not liked and going to be accepted. To stay under the radar is to do the job and be honest about the mistakes you made. If you're not the type to laugh it off, just say it in a fast tone, something that does not draw further emphasis on the issue; and SLE want to help; they like subservience and to feel like they are in control. Give them that by going to them and asking if things that you are doing is ok and say "Ok I just wanted to check with you and make sure that's fine."
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Who's winning?
wow you're really dealing with something strange here; most Se, base being experience seekers, just want to be the one in charge, liked, put on a pedestal, revert to light hearted, nonchalant sense of humor. I suppose it's possible to get a really stick in the butt SLE who isn't about the surface of things as he likes them, who is so domineering that they feel they must be in other's face, but it usually has not been my experience; maybe it's the work that they are doing; does this person own the company or do they have a supervisor as well?You make fine observations.
Again, this has to be done very carefully - my SLE boss blows up if you were to ask him a question that isn't well thought through which may imply your incompetence in an area where you should have known better.
Sometimes, I wonder if he intentionally gives impossible tasks in order to watch them fall into a mess so that he can be the hero saving the world.
The world's hard line and cruel, tyrannic, bosses tend to be the Te bases ENTj and ESTj
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I actually agree with this, but then it's always possible someone can be SLE and behave in some sort of other way or w/e.
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Last edited by Zenoa; 06-05-2013 at 02:30 AM.
The boss will always win
Lack of empathy for others creates a type that only focuses on the goal/the objective and instead represses the human element to such a degree that they don't see the nature of a human, can't sense the weakness, frailty, the vulnerability, the softness of individual human essence. They don't care how you feel, what you feel, in fact, when you feel, they don't see it, when you cry, they don't see that, they just see the immediate objective which is the job at hand; you can stop an SLE and cry and they will feel bad for you, you can cry in front of an LSE and they'll just tell you to leave.
An LSE who gives up the control of the dictatorship like, un-empathetic like element will listen to me and will not cross certain lines of interaction between themselves and others; I'm there to say, "enough" you're hurting someone, you need to please stop. An immature LSE is one who will ride their horse over people, or the person, whoever they don't care about. Even me. I've had my share of the nastiest, meanest LSE God ever made; I have hope though that one day someone will be mature enough.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
My one and only mom still loves me :3
ILE; INTP
5w6 so; rcUe|I|;
Speaking of that; my LSE friend, who has cheated on his wife several times, said one day "I feel like you can love more than one person." I asked if he ever fell in love with all these girls he's cheated with and he said "probably not." But he still says "I still love my wife." I asked if he was with her out of love or something else, he stopped for a minute and reflected, then he said, it was because of familiarity, he was with her because she was already apart of this circle he created and it was better to have something old and comfortable and familiar than something new.
So much for knowing what LOVE really is, huh? Right. They don't know, honestly; they just want a dog that will never respond; that's their idea of love. People come in OBJECTS OF AFFECTION to an LSE. Sadly, there are so many objects out there and Affections are not static for them they are transient or changing.
Surprise!!! I don't come in DOG. I come in human.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
That's unkind, rude, and libelous
Not when they've told that to me in my face it isn't.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
yes it is because you're taking one immature or not-yet-grown or unblessed with experience person's view and applying it to all ESTJs. that's unfair and untrue. and even the one who said he isn't as connected to knowing about what a relationship feels like doesn't necessarily NOT WANT one!
Actually, there is truth to Maritsa's observations. While I am aware of the need to show more sensitivity to the LSE sociokind, her observation on this matter is consistent with my own (I am NOT generalising btw).
p.s. She was merely expressing her disappointment regarding her past experiences with LSEs, not so much insulting the entire race. Relax...
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