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Thread: Getting out of the Ne PoLR rut

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    Default Getting out of the Ne PoLR rut

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    Last edited by Zenoa; 06-05-2013 at 03:35 AM. Reason: too many things socionically incorrect in this thread

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    The SLE has, effectively, set you up to fail by giving you an impossible task. If a similar situation occurs, it might help to get a new prospective by talking to coworkers about it rather than increasing your effort. Work shouldn't be about over-exertion at all.

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    Generally the way to deal with superego is to plan ahead. Don't improvise if you can avoid it. Plan ahead and consider possible scenarios and how you would deal with it. Don't wait until you actually are in that situation. If you succeed in this you can go on using strong functions and superego will not bother you too much. Superego can and should be used but it is not for creative work or improvising on the fly.

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    My thoughts - take with grain of salt, and may not apply to you. Ne polr isn't about any lack of resourcefulness - Se creative can actually lead to a great deal of resourcefulness and one article I read said Se-creatives can create money out of thin air etc. as an exaggeration on this attribute. I think instead it has more to do with getting locked-in to a decision and developing tunnel-vision. As in, I will see an option - the option seems like it will solve all the problems, so I decide to take it and every other option disappears.

    As an example (sorry has to remain vague,) recently I was faced with a decision to make, and wasn't sure which way to approach it. A good friend told me to absolutely not take a certain option, and gave me other suggestions. I agreed, and was determined to follow this advice UNTIL an opportunity arose that I didn't think I should miss, and taking that opportunity led to a series of events where I felt like I had no choice BUT the option I had agreed not to take. It wasn't actually my only choice, but it seemed the easiest and most practical way out of the situation in the moment, and I locked into it. To me it was the only choice. And I took it. The desire to make a decision and finish something can override everything else at times.

    BTW, in your example - how were you able to create a plan without knowing the problem could be solved? Plan = steps to take to reach goal, yes? If you had no achievable goal - what did that consist of? Was your plan just to try a bunch of stuff and see if any of it got you any closer? In the future, to avoid this, as soon as you see that something is dependent on factors outside of your control, list those factors and bring them to the attention of whoever has assigned you the task. Perhaps those things are not outside of their control - or perhaps they are, but you need to bring them up and show exactly what obstacles are stopping you. Get other heads in on the matter if possible for a second look as well, to see if you might just be missing something. But if you don't see a way to a solution, beating your head against everything in a vain attempt to chance upon a solution doesn't usually work very well.

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    Last edited by Zenoa; 05-10-2013 at 02:17 AM.

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    Don't stress over it and take it with a gain of salt. Focus only what you have control of, and don't blow up under any circumstances.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

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    I would say Ne PoLR would involve directly speaking to your boss about this rather than leaving things undecided and with ambiguity.

    Then thinking Sh*t maybe shouldn't have done that.

    Or just leaving it till it's too late to do it.

    Maybe get some advice from someone you work with who has Ni that you can reasonably confide in, see what their advice is.

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    It just seems you were too invested in the work. Unless you are working entirely for yourself, it's always best to be a bit detached and don't give 100%, lest being exploited.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    wow, you know how to type? HOW? Where? Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozz View Post
    The SLE has, effectively, set you up to fail by giving you an impossible task. If a similar situation occurs, it might help to get a new prospective by talking to coworkers about it rather than increasing your effort. Work shouldn't be about over-exertion at all.
    Oh come on!

    this isn't the case at all, it's just how SLE work; they give people independence where LSI are a lot more likely to micromanage; stop being so suspicious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    wow, you know how to type? HOW? Where? Why?
    It doesn't take a particularly intelligent person to study and to make sense of observations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    this isn't the case at all, it's just how SLE work; they give people independence where LSI are a lot more likely to micromanage.
    I agree. FTR though, micromanaging isn't my thing because I somehow enjoy it. It's simply because I'm quick to notice (and to be concerned) that certain things need to be in place before particular goals can be accomplished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    It doesn't take a particularly intelligent person to study and to make sense of observations.


    I agree. FTR though, micromanaging isn't my thing because I somehow enjoy it. It's simply because I'm quick to notice (and to be concerned) that certain things need to be in place before particular goals can be accomplished.
    My boss is LSI and the manager is SLE, in that dynamics it's much worse because the LSI just is intense; be lucky you have SLE managing you because you're given the freedom to be as detailed as you like and structure things however you like; all SLE wants is that the work is done and that you tell them it is. They may track your activities sometimes, like recording your conversations, but as long as you're honest, that's all they care about; unbridled honesty. Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    My boss is LSI and the manager is SLE, in that dynamics it's much worse because the LSI just is intense; be lucky you have SLE managing you because you're given the freedom to be as detailed as you like and structure things however you like; all SLE wants is that the work is done and that you tell them it is. They may track your activities sometimes, like recording your conversations, but as long as you're honest, that's all they care about; unbridled honesty. Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."
    Thanks, this is good advice and I know for a fact that it works - provided you ensure that you do not make the same mistake ever, in their various permutations.
    Last edited by Zenoa; 04-03-2013 at 05:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Oh come on!

    this isn't the case at all, it's just how SLE work; they give people independence where LSI are a lot more likely to micromanage; stop being so suspicious.
    Hi Maritsa. I have no idea whatever it was the intention of the SLE to set the OP to fail and I did not want to make that assertion at all. It's just not a good practice to give someone an impossible task. It could be very damaging to someone with an internal locus of control.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1rlFtCDrw This guy nailed some good points

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantimo View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ1rlFtCDrw This guy nailed some good points
    Interesting video

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Interesting video
    Are you familiar with ISTps? What are the chances of my experience above, the result of Ne suggestive rather than Ne PoLR?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    Are you familiar with ISTps? What are the chances of my experience above, being a result of Ne suggestive rather than Ne PoLR?
    pretty high

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    pretty high
    Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    Why?
    may I ask what you meant by your experience above? you mean in the original post? I don't think you're ISTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    Yes, the original post. It's an example of weak Ne, but is it a valued function or a non-valued function? I can see how having some Ne (additional options) could help in keeping me optimistic and focused on making the best out of the situation.
    Nevertheless, I geared up for the challenge; laid out a relatively detailed plan and proceeded to attack the problem in every conceivable manner; leaving no stone unturned – no matter how remote the possibility of the bait being taken.

    ^ that is not associated with SiTe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Nevertheless, I geared up for the challenge; laid out a relatively detailed plan and proceeded to attack the problem in every conceivable manner; leaving no stone unturned – no matter how remote the possibility of the bait being taken.

    ^ that is not associated with SiTe.
    It's strange though, because ESFjs tend to irritate the hell out of me? There's one in my office who jabbers away and takes 2 mins to make a 10 second point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    It's strange though, because ESFjs tend to irritate the hell out of me? There's one in my office who jabbers away and takes 2 mins to make a 10 second point.
    My sister is ESFj and she's married to an ISTj; he's very very irritated of her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Ever considered other types? like tactical types instead of strategic?
    ISTjs are tactical. I am more tactical in action than strategic. I know X method works, I want to apply X method in as many situations as possible.

    I've yet to experience any conflict with IEEs though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    ISTjs are tactical. I am more tactical in action than strategic. I know X method works, I want to apply X method in as many situations as possible.

    I've yet to experience any conflict with IEEs though.
    I know, I just noticed; I haven't had enough sleep today

    Believe me semi dual relations are annoying.

    My sister is carefree, nonchalant, very goofy, laid back, loose, and teases with the intention of yanking emotions around; LSI are far more serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    I have major issues with the Ne PoLR, probably worsened by being E6.
    I'm so fucking sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    My boss is LSI and the manager is SLE, in that dynamics it's much worse because the LSI just is intense; be lucky you have SLE managing you because you're given the freedom to be as detailed as you like and structure things however you like; all SLE wants is that the work is done and that you tell them it is. They may track your activities sometimes, like recording your conversations, but as long as you're honest, that's all they care about; unbridled honesty.
    How does this play out in the long run? What must the LSI do in order to stay under the SLE's radar? Assuming that the boss is SLE and the subordinate LSI.

    Tell him/her what's up; you make a mistake say in a laughing tone "oh, I made a mistake because I didn't know, sorry; won't happen again now that I know."
    I've been thinking about this, and apologizing in a laughing tone won't work- it's hard enough to get a laugh out of me on a typical day. Apologizing to the SLE has to be done very carefully too - no chinks in the armor (minor, one-off ones are still acceptable) or else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phthalate
    I'm so fucking sorry.
    As I am for your pitiable Fi PoLR. I hope it didn't ruin too many of your relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    How does this play out in the long run? What must the LSI do in order to stay under the SLE's radar? Assuming that the boss is SLE and the subordinate LSI.


    I've been thinking about this, and apologizing in a laughing tone won't work- it's hard enough to get a laugh out of me on a typical day. Apologizing to the SLE has to be done very carefully too - no chinks in the armor (minor, one-off ones are still acceptable) or else.


    As I am for your pitiable Fi PoLR. I hope it didn't ruin too many of your relationships.
    No one escapes the SLE's radar, they are equaly testy and suspicious of everyone; that is associated with the Se valuing function; look it up in Jung's book; something to do with paranoia; LSE are also paranoid for different reasons, probably that they are not liked and going to be accepted. To stay under the radar is to do the job and be honest about the mistakes you made. If you're not the type to laugh it off, just say it in a fast tone, something that does not draw further emphasis on the issue; and SLE want to help; they like subservience and to feel like they are in control. Give them that by going to them and asking if things that you are doing is ok and say "Ok I just wanted to check with you and make sure that's fine."

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    Who's winning?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    You make fine observations.


    Again, this has to be done very carefully - my SLE boss blows up if you were to ask him a question that isn't well thought through which may imply your incompetence in an area where you should have known better.

    Sometimes, I wonder if he intentionally gives impossible tasks in order to watch them fall into a mess so that he can be the hero saving the world.
    wow you're really dealing with something strange here; most Se, base being experience seekers, just want to be the one in charge, liked, put on a pedestal, revert to light hearted, nonchalant sense of humor. I suppose it's possible to get a really stick in the butt SLE who isn't about the surface of things as he likes them, who is so domineering that they feel they must be in other's face, but it usually has not been my experience; maybe it's the work that they are doing; does this person own the company or do they have a supervisor as well?


    The world's hard line and cruel, tyrannic, bosses tend to be the Te bases ENTj and ESTj

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    wow you're really dealing with something strange here; most Se, base being experience seekers, just want to be the one in charge, liked, put on a pedestal, revert to light hearted, nonchalant sense of humor. I suppose it's possible to get a really stick in the butt SLE who isn't about the surface of things as he likes them, who is so domineering that they feel they must be in other's face, but it usually has not been my experience; maybe it's the work that they are doing; does this person own the company or do they have a supervisor as well?


    The world's hard line and cruel, tyrannic, bosses tend to be the Te bases ENTj and ESTj
    I actually agree with this, but then it's always possible someone can be SLE and behave in some sort of other way or w/e.

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    .
    Last edited by Zenoa; 06-05-2013 at 03:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    Who's winning?
    The boss will always win

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post

    How so?
    Lack of empathy for others creates a type that only focuses on the goal/the objective and instead represses the human element to such a degree that they don't see the nature of a human, can't sense the weakness, frailty, the vulnerability, the softness of individual human essence. They don't care how you feel, what you feel, in fact, when you feel, they don't see it, when you cry, they don't see that, they just see the immediate objective which is the job at hand; you can stop an SLE and cry and they will feel bad for you, you can cry in front of an LSE and they'll just tell you to leave.

    An LSE who gives up the control of the dictatorship like, un-empathetic like element will listen to me and will not cross certain lines of interaction between themselves and others; I'm there to say, "enough" you're hurting someone, you need to please stop. An immature LSE is one who will ride their horse over people, or the person, whoever they don't care about. Even me. I've had my share of the nastiest, meanest LSE God ever made; I have hope though that one day someone will be mature enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post


    As I am for your pitiable Fi PoLR. I hope it didn't ruin too many of your relationships.
    My one and only mom still loves me :3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenoa View Post
    Interestingly, an LSE-Si once revealed to me that he doesn't know how love feels like (and asked me to describe it to him. ack!) -
    Speaking of that; my LSE friend, who has cheated on his wife several times, said one day "I feel like you can love more than one person." I asked if he ever fell in love with all these girls he's cheated with and he said "probably not." But he still says "I still love my wife." I asked if he was with her out of love or something else, he stopped for a minute and reflected, then he said, it was because of familiarity, he was with her because she was already apart of this circle he created and it was better to have something old and comfortable and familiar than something new.

    So much for knowing what LOVE really is, huh? Right. They don't know, honestly; they just want a dog that will never respond; that's their idea of love. People come in OBJECTS OF AFFECTION to an LSE. Sadly, there are so many objects out there and Affections are not static for them they are transient or changing.

    Surprise!!! I don't come in DOG. I come in human.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    They don't know, honestly; they just want a dog that will never respond; that's their idea of love.
    That's unkind, rude, and libelous
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    That's unkind, rude, and libelous
    Not when they've told that to me in my face it isn't.

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    yes it is because you're taking one immature or not-yet-grown or unblessed with experience person's view and applying it to all ESTJs. that's unfair and untrue. and even the one who said he isn't as connected to knowing about what a relationship feels like doesn't necessarily NOT WANT one!
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Surprise!!! I don't come in DOG. I come in human.


    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    yes it is because you're taking one immature or not-yet-grown or unblessed with experience person's view and applying it to all ESTJs. that's unfair and untrue. and even the one who said he isn't as connected to knowing about what a relationship feels like doesn't necessarily NOT WANT one!
    Actually, there is truth to Maritsa's observations. While I am aware of the need to show more sensitivity to the LSE sociokind, her observation on this matter is consistent with my own (I am NOT generalising btw).

    p.s. She was merely expressing her disappointment regarding her past experiences with LSEs, not so much insulting the entire race. Relax...

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