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Thread: Okay, I'm willing to consider LSE

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    Default Okay, I'm willing to consider LSE

    My goodness, what has the world come to?

    Obviously if I am LSE, it means that a lot of the people I know are typed incorrectly and that my understanding of Deltas, especially LSE's, is flawed. Both are most certainly possible.

    Why after everything am I even willing to consider this typing for myself? A few reasons:

    1.) At this point I'm open to pretty much any type possibility, especially ExTx types as the only dichotomy that I'm reasonably confident about is logic, and extroversion seems more likely than not. To be quite clear: I am not saying that I think I am LSE. I'm simply open to the possibility that I am for pretty much the first time.

    2.) Someone who, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't know me at all messaged me on Facebook asking what type I am. I told him that I don't know, and he started asking me questions. He seems to have fair knowledge of Socionics, and neither he nor I was invested in any particular typing outcome... And after a couple of days and a lot of talking, he seems pretty confident that I'm LSE. (For anyone who's interested, he's the owner of the Socionics Facebook group called "World Socionics Society".)

    3.) You all knew this one was coming, lol: It would appear my boyfriend is EII. I'm definitely not saying that he and I are duals, but rather that we're in the very least not conflictors... which means I'm most likely not SLE, my most recently favored typing. This also challenges my previously held concepts about what EII's even are, which brings into question my understanding of the rest of Delta.

    4.) This is one of the few typings that explains my strongly conscientious streak. I can explain further if anyone cares to hear about it.

    The bottom line is that I'm not sure it's possible to type me because my "the real me" has been so obscured over the years by ups and downs with psychiatric medications (Adderall primarily) and issues (namely ADD and depressive tendencies). It also doesn't help that I've been drinking too much too often for the past 15 years. It hasn't been long enough since I quit taking all of the medications to reveal what lies beneath, plus I don't know how pregnancy changes me, if at all. I also don't know if I should be considering what I'm like when I'm at my happiest and most productive (so far that would be when I'm "properly medicated") as who I really am. Just as an example, if someone is severely depressed or anxious or schizophrenic but transforms into a reasonably happy and healthy productive member of society when they're properly medicated, which person is "the real" them? I'm not completely sure that I actually have true ADD or depression, but I have at least partially believed that I have issues with those things for a very long time. It remains to be seen how this will all shake out once my body has re-stabilized after being off meds for an extended period of time and recovered from the hormonal fluctuations of pregnancy. I hope that I never go back on meds, but if that's what it takes to be my energetic, productive self again, that's what I'm going to do.

    My preconceived notions and existing understanding of Socionics also create a barrier to typing me due to the ever present threat of confirmation bias. Also, it seems like I have a lot of conflicting characteristics. And I've changed so much over the years that for most questions, I say "I go through phases" as my answer at this point.

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    LOL Joy <3

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    Interesting.

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    I don't identify with a lot of stuff in the descriptions I've read recently. That doesn't necessarily rule it out though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I don't identify with a lot of stuff in the descriptions I've read recently. That doesn't necessarily rule it out though.
    You are a workaholic. So, maybe it's not that far off; you just need to develop a distaste for people in general, which I'm presuming you're working on already and you need to have little to no empathy for the emotions of other individuals; this place can teach you the latter, maybe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    LOL Joy <3
    What are you laughing about? She's the inverse of you exactly. You are unmovable about your stupid ideas and she has to chase her stupid ideas around with a frying pan.

    I hope you're not boozing it up while you're pregnant, Joy.
    "[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan

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    Maritsa, the person you're describing sounds miserable no matter his/her type.

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    OBVIOUSLY I'm not getting drunk while I'm pregnant. Who would? The interesting thing though is that I don't miss it at all.

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    A dusty and dreadful charade. Scapegrace's Avatar
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    I was kidding about the drunken pregnancy thing. I think you're a decent person. Unfortunately a lot of women do. I would imagine that you don't miss it because during pregnancy your body puts off all these fun hormones and chemicals that probably act somewhat as a substitution.
    "[Scapegrace,] I don't know how anyone can stand such a sinister and mean individual as you." - Maritsa Darmandzhyan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Maritsa, the person you're describing sounds miserable no matter his/her type.
    They are my love; that's why they call them misanthropes.

    Noun
    A person who dislikes humankind and avoids human society.

    AKA LSE for the most part.

    What's worse than that?

    This:


    Adjective
    Bad-tempered and sulky; gloomy.


    A SULLEN MISANTHROPE

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    I suppose some women have to be doing it otherwise fetal alcohol syndrome wouldn't even exist. Interestingly it's showing up now in kids whose mothers didn't drink, and sometimes heavy drinkers' babies don't have it. They're looking into the possibility that it's more related to nutritional deficiencies (which often correlate to alcoholism) as the cause rather than the alcohol itself.

    I can't believe how many women still smoke when they're pregnant. And do drugs. I don't understand if they're simply in denial or just don't care or what?

    I'm not sure how much of those "feel good" hormones I'm getting. On whole I just feel very content and lazy/tired. (Well, and uncomfortable/in pain.) When I was in my first trimester, whenever I didn't feel like puking I'd have this tired, out of it feeling. It reminded me of the feeling I'd get when I used to smoke weed, the feeling after the primary high. I wonder if it's still there and I'm simply used to it now.

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    Maritsa, your grumpy people hating image of LSE's doesn't seem to match this:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/126-Stirlitz-Female-Portrait-ESTj-by-Beskova
    With all her serious and critical relation to the life, SHTIRLITS woman is not completely dull. She excellently manages her emotions, especially at first meetings, she is often smiling and affable. She always willingly supports company, laughs in response to your jokes, and this makes contact with her very pleasant.
    Granted, it doesn't say she's not faking it, but the description doesn't suggest that she is, either. In fact, aren't LSE's known to be very sincere people? That's one of the traits I actually do identify with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Maritsa, your grumpy people hating image of LSE's doesn't seem to match this:



    Granted, it doesn't say she's not faking it, but the description doesn't suggest that she is, either. In fact, aren't LSE's known to be very sincere people? That's one of the traits I actually do identify with it.
    They are judgmental humans. LSE aren't the only sincere people.

    Why do you think they need a Humanist? To help keep people around. They piss people off and away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post

    Noun
    A person who dislikes humankind and avoids human society.

    AKA LSE for the most part.

    What's worse than that?

    This:


    Adjective
    Bad-tempered and sulky; gloomy.


    A SULLEN MISANTHROPE
    First one sounds like Ashton, second like LSI...

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    Isn't that more because they're curt and have little tolerance for people doing things incorrectly? And they are impatient with people who interrupt their work and have short tempers? (I'm curt and generally insist on my subordinates doing their jobs correctly, and yes this pissed people off sometimes, and some people at work may describe me as impatient. I have learned to control my temper though.) None of that means that they don't like people.

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    The moment I read the header and saw you posted this I thought "she must have an EII boyfriend".

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    That's fair. I'm not convinced that we're duals though.

    It's actually our two year anniversary today.
    Last edited by Joy; 03-23-2013 at 11:53 PM.

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    Whatever type you came up with ages ago before you started really delving into Socionics is probably your actual type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narcotic View Post
    Whatever type you came up with ages ago before you started really delving into Socionics is probably your actual type.
    ILE. I'm not opposed to the idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    ILE. I'm not opposed to the idea.
    What's stopping you from picking that and settling on it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Narcotic View Post
    What's stopping you from picking that and settling on it?
    The same things (as described in my original post) that are keeping me from picking anything and settling on it. Also, I'm not sure how I'd explain the strongly conscientious streak if I'm ILE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    The same things (as described in my original post) that are keeping me from picking anything and settling on it. Also, I'm not sure how I'd explain the strongly conscientious streak if I'm ILE.
    Just do a bit of reading on valuing vs valuing and then combine that with your certainty of being a logic type. You should be able to narrow it down and decide pretty quickly.

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    Thank you for commenting. I appreciate your willingness to contribute to this discussion and attempt at being helpful. (: I've been too involved in Socionics for way too long for something like simply glancing over descriptions of functions to help with this though. There's nothing quick or easy about it in my case. My typing is a convoluted mess for the reasons I described in my original post.

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    I am advocating the simple approach.

    That said, you're starting to strike me as the kind of person who could never fully decide on a type because of all the little variables and minutiae in descriptions and disparities between translated articles and so on.

    What I'd say you've done is not strongly decided on any type, so the smallest thing could make you change your mind, sort of like a really thin sheet being sent flapping into the air with the smallest breeze.

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    It's not that.

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    You seem to be concentrating on socionics as a categorization of "personality" in the sense that that word is typically understood by the culture, and I think that's part of what's blocking your understanding here. Socionics posits that personality has its roots in the way you prefer to process information, and there are clues to that in aspects of yourself that have nothing to do with "personality" as such. The rational vs. irrational dichotomy is one of the easier ones to learn to recognize that way, as it has to with the preference for structured vs. unstructured forms of information, and it's clear just from reading your post above that you naturally keep your information quite structured. Given that, and your certainty of being T and E (which both fit with what I've observed), you're either or . I have less grasp of the difference between those two than I'd like, but one thing I've noticed should be of use here: Ns essentially always have a silly streak, which it sounds like you don't, so sounds right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tejing View Post
    You seem to be concentrating on socionics as a categorization of "personality" in the sense that that word is typically understood by the culture, and I think that's part of what's blocking your understanding here. Socionics posits that personality has its roots in the way you prefer to process information, and there are clues to that in aspects of yourself that have nothing to do with "personality" as such. The rational vs. irrational dichotomy is one of the easier ones to learn to recognize that way, as it has to with the preference for structured vs. unstructured forms of information, and it's clear just from reading your post above that you naturally keep your information quite structured. Given that, and your certainty of being T and E (which both fit with what I've observed), you're either or . I have less grasp of the difference between those two than I'd like, but one thing I've noticed should be of use here: Ns essentially always have a silly streak, which it sounds like you don't, so sounds right.
    LOL...you're having Se polr issues...look at how long she's been on the forum

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    Yeah, first the guy who's been here two months and now one who's got 35 posts. (: Honestly though, I'm happy to have their input because they don't know my history here at all. For example, tejing makes a good point about how I prefer my information structured. However, I do not need to have it presented to me in a structured way. I naturally structure it in a manner that works for me. One of my previous bosses noted that I have a very structured approach, that even the way I asked questions revealed how systematically I think. I had attributed this to Ti.

    It's not as simple as all of that though because I can also be really laid back in my personal life. My responses to I feel like the older I get, the more laid back I become. I've been learning to just let things be as they are and to go with the flow and not get my panties in a bunch over things that don't really matter. My parenting style is particularly laid back. However, in parenting my son I'm consciously always trying to balance out the damage his dad (who I had long believed to be LSE) does by being WAY too strict, controlling, authoritarian, sheltering, and narrow minded. With the daughter that my boyfriend and I are going to have in early summer, I'm sure I'll be more strict because kids do need a certain amount of that.

    As far as goofiness, I'm quite goofy and silly sometimes, but I guess it depends on my mood and what's going on. I even joke around a lot at work when everything is running smoothly. I like picking on my boyfriend by poking at him, pinching him, etc. because he makes funny faces and sounds and pretends to be quite upset by the whole thing. I also gently shake my almost-third-trimester baby bump and chase/go after him saying "blub blub blub blub blub we're gonna getcha!" until he's like "nuuuuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!" and I'm cackling maniacally. It's probably one of those things you'd have to be there to understand... but anyways...

    I sorta think my interests are too geeky for me to be an LSE. Anime/manga, science fiction, strategy games, Magic: The Gathering, D&D board games (and possibly actual D&D soon), Renn Faire, etc. But that could just be more of me misunderstanding what an LSE is.
    Last edited by Joy; 03-24-2013 at 04:22 AM.

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    I would initially gather that you are an introvert.

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    Interesting. It's possible. Sometimes I wonder about that, but usually I consider extroversion more likely for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Interesting. It's possible. Sometimes I wonder about that, but usually I consider extroversion more likely for me.
    Ehh, well, it's just a guess, and a bad one at that. One reason I think so is because you seem absorbed upon trying to identify yourself and your own actions and needs. Your focus is on yourself in an introspective way.

    I would guess you as a possible 4, as well. There is a "real you" which isn't what you are acting as at this time. Do you have an "idealized self", because I don't. There's a difference between having goals you would like to achieve that are possible and within your rreach, and having goals that ....... in some way, may be impossibilities or extraordinary and unpossessible.

    Either way, I would say you are an attention-whore. lol.......

    I would guess you also as a Feeler. Your thoughts seem........ unnecessary and shallow at times. Narcissistic. (Maybe that's ISTP lol).
    Last edited by jet city woman; 03-24-2013 at 07:35 AM.

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    Ohhhhhhhhhhhh. It all makes so much sense now. I must be IEI. Why didn't I think of that sooner?

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    Just settle on woman's dual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    LOL...you're having Se polr issues...look at how long she's been on the forum
    Yea, I should have presented that with less of an authoritative tone... but I can't help it, I feel authoritative about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    For example, tejing makes a good point about how I prefer my information structured. However, I do not need to have it presented to me in a structured way. I naturally structure it in a manner that works for me.
    This is what I meant. I was referring to the way your mind works internally, and the format in which you prefer to store information inside your psyche.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    As far as goofiness, I'm quite goofy and silly sometimes, but I guess it depends on my mood and what's going on. I even joke around a lot at work when everything is running smoothly. I like picking on my boyfriend by poking at him, pinching him, etc. because he makes funny faces and sounds and pretends to be quite upset by the whole thing. I also gently shake my almost-third-trimester baby bump and chase/go after him saying "blub blub blub blub blub we're gonna getcha!" until he's like "nuuuuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!" and I'm cackling maniacally. It's probably one of those things you'd have to be there to understand... but anyways...
    I happen to know a number of both s and s closely, and this sounds like . In my experience s tend to make silly "free association"-style connections between ideas, make puns, and so on, while s tend to get into "silly moods" where they act unpredictably and amusingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I sorta think my interests are too geeky for me to be an LSE. Anime/manga, science fiction, strategy games, Magic: The Gathering, D&D board games (and possibly actual D&D soon), Renn Faire, etc. But that could just be more of me misunderstanding what an LSE is.
    Don't forget that your interests would be affected by your super-id as well as your ego block functions.
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    I think it's a pretty big stretch to say that sensory types don't have a silly sense of humor. SEI's, for example, can be pretty silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I think it's a pretty big stretch to say that sensory types don't have a silly sense of humor. SEI's, for example, can be pretty silly.
    Actually technically what I said was that intuitive types do have a silly streak, not that sensory types don't, but what I was really getting at was that that silliness seems to be correlated to the intuitive IM elements. As for SEIs, isn't that the role function coming into play? I guess what I'm saying is that it's not as though you can fully understand a type just in terms of their leading and creative functions; everyone has a relationship with every IM element to some degree, but in different ways.
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    Let's see if people agree with my reasons for LSE...

    Proactive, bold, assertive, protector of meek boyfriend etc... sketchy but would mildly suggest Extraversion with Sensation.

    Practical, good with solving problems, productive... suggests Logical... Le more likely than Li.
    Has far greater trouble with relationship problems than work problems... believes she has a poor understanding of people but is proficient in tasks requiring problem-solving and applying information... Yup, Logical.

    Wants to become a hospice nurse... Why? Why on earth would someone Extroverted and Logical (and believing herself to be Intuitive) want to do that a living? View on the merits of medicine center around encouraging relaxation, physical equilibrium, practical care etc. - Si ego, makes LIE especially and ILE very unlikely.

    Conscientious and perfectionistic... rational type is more likely.

    Such a perfectionist she'll spend ages on a particular task until it's done right... Ii Vulnerable lights up!

    Her defence against Ii Vulnerable... she likes geeky activities such as magic the gathering and other things with imagination and magic.... just as likely to be Ie Mobilising, in fact probably moreso. Plenty of ESEs and LSEs partake in geek culture as a display of 2-dimensional Ie.

    Issues... Messy house, lacking energy to clean regularly, seems very emotionally open in discussion. Intuitive, Introversion, Merry? One minute she says she cleans very well and the next she calls it sporadic and something she hasn't the energy to do. She could just be comfortable with sharing these aspects as she's had a long time to accept and get used to them. Also physical issues external to type can cause problems that get in the way of Ego block manifestation.. good example is an SLE friend with myalgic encephalomyelitis. Personality is full of the assertive (if blunt) energy characteristic of SLEs but is forced to limit his activities due to crippling fatigue after a few hours of being awake, sleeps most of the day. Such imposed behaviours are at great odds to his nature.

    Also, if LSE Si would be Creative allowing Si activities to be less consistent.

  38. #38
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    @Jack Oliver Aaron just a side note, using the I/S and L/E letters when describing IM elements can be confusing because one can't see the difference between an "I" and an "l". Plus, most other written work (that I've seen anyway) uses the N/S and T/F letters (or the symbols) when referring to IM elements, perhaps for this reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhh. It all makes so much sense now. I must be IEI. Why didn't I think of that sooner?
    Must be because you are LSE.

  40. #40
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    is it even worth it to keep thinking about it at this point? what is the benefit? if you were to find your "real type" tomorrow, what would change in your life? seriously. is it just curiosity?

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