ESTjs instruct INFjs on what to do

[Beautiful sky]

Dostoyevsky is always grateful to a partner, who is capable of advising and suggesting how he should act in each concrete situation. Generalized, vague phrases about how one should or shouldn't live are not sufficient for him (this trait is characteristic of his conflictor, Zhukov (SLE)): such approach to resolving life's problems only irritates Dostoyevsky.

Another matter, when for each specific occasion, he receives tried and tested, repeatedly proven to work, stated with maximum directness and clarity, methodically presented recommendations, which he can with full confidence implement as instructions for taking concrete actions in life. It is exactly in this form and manner that he receives information from his dual, Shtirlitz, and it is precisely this type information that is of vital importance for Dostoyevsky's well-being and development.

LSE watch people and they watch their behavior intently, carefully,

So, the story goes, we were having a family get together to say goodbye to my 80+ year old aunt, who returned to Lebanon and one of my cousins, who is Xenophobic and is extremely "himself" focused showed up with his family, drank a bit much and started getting offensive and rude; my LSE cousin comes up to me and says "get up and dance" in a very directive "that's what you do now" way. I think nothing of her call to behave and do as such because she's like this and I LOVE it, so I get up and dance, but there's something fishy in her eyes and I just look at her. I look at her and wonder what is going on. I made a facial gesture "what's up?" look. She tells me quietly, "he didn't even say goodbye to his aunt; he needs to be the center of attention so he's disapproving of us dancing and is getting rude." I hadn't noticed all this go on. She was pretty much saying "you act and do this here." Got it? got it...


Do you have examples of this with LSE?

[Narc]

So wait, you actually like being told what to do?

[Beautiful sky]

So wait, you actually like being told what to do?

Directed...

"Maritsa, you do this!"

[Narc]

Great.

Maritsa, go iron my clothes and cook me some lunch.

[Beautiful sky]

Great.

Maritsa, go iron my clothes and cook me some lunch.

LOL
ROFL

Only in a relationship; do you want to be in a relationship with me? And, um...there's the thing about mutual concessions. I have a list of things I'm sure you'll enjoy doing.

[Narc]

You're in a relationship with your LSE cousin?

[Beautiful sky]

You're in a relationship with your LSE cousin?

She's my family relationship.

[Narc]

I think there are laws against that in some states.

[Beautiful sky]

Here's a story about cake...

So we're having a party and one of my cousins comments on how some people hold grudges for a long time and the rest just starting naming names of who is like what and my SEE cousin says "what's great about Maritsa is that you can yell, scream at her and make her upset one day and the next she'll come in and greet you as if nothing happened." My dual cousin hears the last part of that and says, in her loud and present voice "who?" Cousin says "Maritsa!" My dual cousin is across the room from me; she stops, looks at me, smiles, she's standing by the table that has all kinds of yummy treats. She grabs a plate, two forks, slides a cake on there cuts it in half and brings it and sits next to me. She pushes the half of the cake that doesn't have green frosting towards me, hands me a fork and smiles. Smiles this encouraging, heart melting, mild, understated smile and I say "I know you don't like frosting, I will eat that half." (Because I'm more selfless and I could care less about aesthetics of cake and how it pleases my senses...it's the company that I love more). She mutters under her breath (I know this mutter it speaks of "I'm fine with my choice, I've made it on purpose and I'm ok with it.") I get the mutter and I see her scrape the frosting off her piece and she and I eat the cake together.

I've yet to connect with a dual this deeply, where we don't speak and don't have to. We'll see what happens.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

I HAVE BROTHER
HIS NAME IS BILO

[Absurd]

[serialfriend]

That description of EII is something I relate to deeply. I used to have an SLE ex and every time I had an issue and told him about it his advice to me is very… “life coach”y. Stuff like: You can do this! You’re smart and beautiful and sexy and I have full confidence that things will work out and that you will be fine. I believe in you.

Of course it was very sweet and I felt supported, but after a while of the same thing it gets tiring. It’s also too vague. That’s his advice for every issue I have and I would think there’s a better solution to my issues than a general Se push.

What I’ve realized in myself is that when I’m in the throes of my feelings (stressed, anxious) or just in every day life, to be honest, my mind doesn’t immediately go to what to do next (call it weak Se or Te). I feel almost stuck. My dual prods me and says “go do this and this and this” and it’s like I’m jolted out of my potential energy. I realize yeah, you’re right I could do that! It sounds so obvious but I don’t realize it in the moment.

This was most obvious when I worked on something with my dual. He has the same directive approach and he mentioned that other people don’t appreciate it. Think he’s too bossy. I think it almost has to do with economy of words. I don’t even notice it though. I don’t take any offense to it.

So, for example, we were working on a server together and he’d direct me to make the logo, the channel names, add aesthetics and warm descriptions. Lots of “here’s what I want you to do” and “can you do this?” And I’d do them rather quickly and he’d always be surprised that I take it so well. That I’m not offended. To me, it just makes sense. We’re trying to do something and I want to get it done too! I appreciate the direction. Often I feel like I’m capable, I just need to be told what to do. Like a wind-up toy car that needs someone to pull me back and set me on my course and then I’ll be zooming.

Interestingly though, I feel like I also have the same tone. “I think we should do this” or “this would look better like that” and when it would normally offend the groups I’ve been with or they’d see me as dry, my dual sees this as normal.

Like duality is described, we feel more free to be ourselves around each other. No need to adapt.

[necrosebud]

This is true

I mean generalized vague phrases can be present in all the other Te types including LIE (no wonder given the creative intuition)

but when you’re looking for something like that nothing else ever suffices

[EIE H]

That description of EII is something I relate to deeply. I used to have an SLE ex and every time I had an issue and told him about it his advice to me is very… “life coach”y. Stuff like: You can do this! You’re smart and beautiful and sexy and I have full confidence that things will work out and that you will be fine. I believe in you.

Of course it was very sweet and I felt supported, but after a while of the same thing it gets tiring. It’s also too vague. That’s his advice for every issue I have and I would think there’s a better solution to my issues than a general Se push.

What I’ve realized in myself is that when I’m in the throes of my feelings (stressed, anxious) or just in every day life, to be honest, my mind doesn’t immediately go to what to do next (call it weak Se or Te). I feel almost stuck. My dual prods me and says “go do this and this and this” and it’s like I’m jolted out of my potential energy. I realize yeah, you’re right I could do that! It sounds so obvious but I don’t realize it in the moment.

This was most obvious when I worked on something with my dual. He has the same directive approach and he mentioned that other people don’t appreciate it. Think he’s too bossy. I think it almost has to do with economy of words. I don’t even notice it though. I don’t take any offense to it.

So, for example, we were working on a server together and he’d direct me to make the logo, the channel names, add aesthetics and warm descriptions. Lots of “here’s what I want you to do” and “can you do this?” And I’d do them rather quickly and he’d always be surprised that I take it so well. That I’m not offended. To me, it just makes sense. We’re trying to do something and I want to get it done too! I appreciate the direction. Often I feel like I’m capable, I just need to be told what to do. Like a wind-up toy car that needs someone to pull me back and set me on my course and then I’ll be zooming.

Interestingly though, I feel like I also have the same tone. “I think we should do this” or “this would look better like that” and when it would normally offend the groups I’ve been with or they’d see me as dry, my dual sees this as normal.

Like duality is described, we feel more free to be ourselves around each other. No need to adapt.

Lol this explains so much. I am pretty sure my stepmom is LSE and her form of helping in the way of instructing me what to do often elicits a “You’re overstepping… fuck off” reaction from me.

But it’s cool to see how others might actually prefer it.

On my end, I would prefer someone to poke holes in my logic and then I come up with a solution based on the improved framework, created from the feedback.