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    Default fossilized emotions

    i was thinking about a feeling i had and then i realized i didn't even have it anymore. when i have feelings i think about them and then they become facts. "i feel sad." so then it becomes fossilized. like an emotion/thought conglomeration that just IS, hanging around. even after its outdated and no longer accurate. and i think that's why i can be so stubborn sometimes.

    being a socionoid, this realization got me to thinking about whether this could be attributable to Fi (long-lasting sentiment blahdeblah) or enneagram 6 (thoughts eating emotions or sumthin).

    but maybe this is just normal. ??? do u feel me?

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    That's just how feelings work, really.

    Back to stupidtronics, consider the F/T dichotomy as it pertains to the involved/abstracted dichotomy. What are emotions/sentiments but experiential understandings of things? You can explain the cause of said emotions in a detached manner, but those explanations will never come close to being accurate portrayals of the emotion itself. One's experience of something is an inexpressible entity since experience exists on a plane of understanding completely detached from cognitive reason. This being the case, were you to try and convey such a sentiment to other people, you'd have to detach yourself from the feeling to some degree in order to better access your mental wordbox and convey it more accurately, albeit in an imperfect and abstracted way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i was thinking about a feeling i had and then i realized i didn't even have it anymore. when i have feelings i think about them and then they become facts. "i feel sad." so then it becomes fossilized. like an emotion/thought conglomeration that just IS, hanging around. even after its outdated and no longer accurate. and i think that's why i can be so stubborn sometimes.
    Are you saying your emotions are controlled in such a way as if deliberately engraving some symbol representing an emotion into a stone and that stone is a scripture that must be obeyed?

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    kind of the reverse of "we must act out passion before we can feel it" (J.P. Sartre)

    when we think through our passion we cease to feel it?

    it also reminds me of how i've once described Fe as something so fleeting that you can not pin-point it as if it's an object. i hadn't thought of it applying to Fi in that way though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    "i feel sad."
    What's wrong?
    "And above all, watch with glittering eyes the whole world around you because the greatest secrets are always hidden in the most unlikely places. Those who don't believe in magic will never find it." -Roald Dahl

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    I notice that with myself irrespective of any thought concerning T/F or e-type that its typical for me to possess certain moods for a certain amount of time, sometimes if its a particularly gratifying mood I'll try to have it persist but inevitably it starts to become shallow and "fossilized" like you've referred to and then I'll go through a sort of empty non-emotional state or mood where I'm not really unfeeling in a negative or sad way (more just kind of bland, empty, quiet) and eventually this will lead into some other type of mood.

    Sometimes say I'll go three days with a surge of optimism and I'll try to make it persist but eventually I get knocked into a different mood say a sort of skepticism and sadness or something.

    I also notice a lot of times how this connects with the mood of certain dreams I have, but usually the mood in dreams are more long term and under the surface than the conscious realization of certain more powerful moods which are more fleeting.

    Edit: This is also typical with music, I'll be really into some song or something and listen to it a shitload and eventually it will just become noise and I'll have to migrate to some other thing for a while before I can come back to it and get anything out of it. It's also this way with people and relations -- too much time around people changes the mood of the interaction. Things can get stale. With long term friends, I actually spend less time talking because we've already discussed so much stuff, its more like a quiet trust. With random strangers I also talk little but this is more out of defense than it is out of anything going stale. Anyways I think this is pretty interesting because look at both trends you can see how there is a natural push and pull to isolation and interaction with others over time. Early on this is driven by defense of one's interest (too much interaction can create conflict, too little staleness) and later by keeping things fresh (too much interaction creates staleness, too little creates staleness), in the middle there is a time in which interactions may surge, and eras of oscillation (eras of surges and eras of space). Many people somehow just assume relations are all or nothing.... you either spend all the time around the person and like them or you avoid them and hate them. It's too static, people need to get more dynamic in their understandings imo.
    Last edited by male; 03-07-2013 at 08:38 AM.

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    In my own case, when I note an emotion that is outdated, I hung onto it because consciously or unconsciously I knew there was a use for it. That use may or may not be pro-social, and if it isn't, it's a good thing I caught it.

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    Yeah these things leave a scar in us. They are just really hard to shake even when logically/physically you are moving on with your life. Like I have a job now and I'm more independent and stuff, but I still have these dreams where I'm the loser at the high school lunch table again, running away from everything I'm afraid of and feeling like everybody is laughing at me and degrading me. It really does suck. people tell me that I am just like everybody else, but our feelings make us feel unique and so i think what they are telling me is BS even though i try to find the common humanity in situations and to realize we all are in pain. the shadows carves our own identities and creates form and definition.

    And well positive feelings aren't any better. Like if I'm around a guy I like, it makes my spirit/soul soar even when he does things 'in real life' that I don't approve of. It's because our romantic partners give us what we want emotionally so strongly that it's so easy to overlook reality even when we know we shouldn't. And like the rational side of me wouldn't accept it but I still have that swimming in love feel when I think of him and that is also frustrating. And I know when I talk about it with my family & friends they really don't wanna listen or care and they will just tell me to move on from him and that also annoys me. "I know that their goal is to keep me from falling"/"they try to push me away but they don't know the truth." lmao leona lewis. I don't know how to move on because i never loved anybody like that. they will just tell me to focus on my work or something. I want to strangle people sometimes honestly, they just don't want to understand and love me and so I don't wanna do the same to them so there.

    so yeah I understand your stubbornness and I relate to it so much that I can't really help you with it. =/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Okay Idea View Post
    In my own case, when I note an emotion that is outdated, I hung onto it because consciously or unconsciously I knew there was a use for it. That use may or may not be pro-social, and if it isn't, it's a good thing I caught it.
    I might benefit from assigning an expiration date to my emotions. Sometimes I hang onto thoughts longer than I should. I like the idea of incorporating a little more logic into my emotional world.
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    I like to think about emotions, visually like water. Things float in(Tire, boats, storms, etc...) and things float out. Just let things pass through and if they sink, thats apart of you, and eventually its either suppressed by the water(emotional) pressure or it buoys from time to time. The things that just pass through are fleeting.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i was thinking about a feeling i had and then i realized i didn't even have it anymore. when i have feelings i think about them and then they become facts. "i feel sad." so then it becomes fossilized. like an emotion/thought conglomeration that just IS, hanging around. even after its outdated and no longer accurate. and i think that's why i can be so stubborn sometimes.

    being a socionoid, this realization got me to thinking about whether this could be attributable to Fi (long-lasting sentiment blahdeblah) or enneagram 6 (thoughts eating emotions or sumthin).

    but maybe this is just normal. ??? do u feel me?
    I don't relate to doing this at all, but I can understand what you mean. Instead I feel my emotions are a stream too remarkable and they can't mentally transform into a fossil or some sort of definition. And I feel like it would be a shame to have all the power taken away from pure emotion and compromise it as a definitive fact, experience, or even explanation. NO! I don't even do that. It could be an enneagram thing--inability to truly step out of and subordinate my own emotions to experiences. It just doesn't work mentally nor would it mean anything to me. And once I think of an emotion it's just real; it consumes me, possesses me and never becomes simply an afterthought.

    I don't think it's simply my mental way of interpreting the same phenomena we both experience. It seems like our experience differs, but I'm curious what you think.
    Last edited by 717495; 03-07-2013 at 05:28 PM.

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    I think we all have the same basic emotions - but we experience them in slightly different ways. They're useful, good, serve a purpose and all that - but can also cause stress and fuck you up. I don't think it matters if they "fossilize" or are floaty amorphous things, or hit you out of nowhere, they're part of how you personally experience life. Staring at them, examining them, turning them over and over for me just leads to a kind of amplification - every time you look at them they become more pronounced. If you don't know what you're feeling at all that can be useful to figure it out -- but for the most part I think focusing on them so much is a short step into a gross slimy pit of self-indulgent whining (not accusing anyone here of that btw.)

    We all have emotions, and what I feel is not more than what anyone else does, it's not more important, it's not more real - it's just mine. When people get locked into their own emotions and examining them there's a huge tendency to see their emotions as the only ones that matter, that they're the only person that matters, and what they're feeling - they can't see beyond them, can't consider anyone else, it's all "me me me." The rest of the world gets rewritten to justify expressing those feelings whenever, wherever and to whoever one pleases without considering the kind of burden you may be creating. (not advocating repression and holding everything in either btw - just the need for discretion and not overfocusing)

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    I don't relate to doing this at all, but I can understand what you mean. Instead I feel my emotions are a stream too remarkable and they can't mentally transform into a fossil or some sort of definition. And I feel like it would be a shame to have all the power taken away from pure emotion and compromise it as a definitive fact, experience, or even explanation. NO! I don't even do that. It could be an enneagram thing--inability to truly step out of and subordinate my own emotions to experiences. It just doesn't work mentally nor would it mean anything to me. And once I think of an emotion it's just real; it consumes me, possesses me and never becomes simply an afterthought.

    I don't think it's simply my mental way of interpreting the same phenomena we both experience. It seems like our experience differs, but I'm curious what you think.
    are you saying you don't cheapen your emotions by labeling them or thinking about them? in that case, i think our experience is very different, but i want to make sure i get what you're saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    When people get locked into their own emotions and examining them there's a huge tendency to see their emotions as the only ones that matter, that they're the only person that matters, and what they're feeling - they can't see beyond them, can't consider anyone else, it's all "me me me." The rest of the world gets rewritten to justify expressing those feelings whenever, wherever and to whoever one pleases without considering the kind of burden you may be creating. (not advocating repression and holding everything in either btw - just the need for discretion and not overfocusing)


    (I came to a similar realisation recently.)
    Reason is a whore.

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    I don't think I do this.

    When I have a feeling I have it and when it passes it passes...


    Extreme or long-term emotions may be subject to more introspection (esp. If I'm not sure why it's an extreme feeling or if it's not rational that I feel a certain way).

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    maybe i was just overthinking sulking/holding a grudge/etc.
    but it happens with positive feelings too (usually affection)

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    The science part of me wants to contemplate the concept of emotional evolution and carbon dating, say neurosystems in the brain and there respective appearance in the evolution of life on earth.

    Here is gomek,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwm1lelqFZo

    He's a huge ass crocodile and only has the brain of the reptiles (sometimes called the reptilian brain). Anyways this is because at a certain point in the evolution on the planet earth avians and mammals appeared from reptiles and with this new neurosystem developments occurred in there brains compared to the reptiles. While reptiles still advanced as a branch on the evolutionary chain, very little major changes occurred in their neurosystems. Anyways I think gomek looks pretty happy, and even though he'd probably destroy you, he's also incredibly dumb and pleased by basic things like being feed and having a safe territory. And this is why I find these ancient parts of the brain interesting -- they are part of our neuro-network. In fact extreme responses to fear when processed in the reptilian brain can cause animals to freeze (this is why some animals freeze when terrified)... I've always wondered what this feels like in human form. It probably feels like some huge repressive ancient force and can reveal itself in dreams or other mythological symbols. The dragon for example seems extremely reptilian. That's always were all the nutter conspiracy folks get their ideas about shapeshifting reptiles.



    There is also george

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOzQYLz_wlo

    But really this is all just rambling and shit... I don't know what else to say about fossilized emotions. Oh yea its good and all to think about other people's emotions, but meh I have trouble entirely rejecting one or another... its like quantum entanglement, we live in a world connected by interactions between entities... so your emotional state subtely influences others and vice versa. It's a mutual symmetry and stuff... at least that's how I see it, which sucks because that probably means I've fossilized the shit out of my emotions by studying them. At least that's better than condemning myself for eternity for taking the opportunity to experience life and seizing on it. If you are always censoring yourself to see if your emotional response is proper, then are you not studying them, and doesn't this basically fossilize it and cause it to be fake -- isn't the goal to simply be aware of other influences around you emotionally?

    I think the reptilian awareness is very basic and underlying... it is respect for power and fear and basic survival needs (food, sex, and so forth). It is the jungle mentality and can be harmonious, oppressive, or predatorial.

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    he died with a felafel
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    maybe the outside label/form is not a good match for the content? or the quality of the content has changed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    i was thinking about a feeling i had and then i realized i didn't even have it anymore. when i have feelings i think about them and then they become facts. "i feel sad." so then it becomes fossilized. like an emotion/thought conglomeration that just IS, hanging around. even after its outdated and no longer accurate. and i think that's why i can be so stubborn sometimes.

    being a socionoid, this realization got me to thinking about whether this could be attributable to Fi (long-lasting sentiment blahdeblah) or enneagram 6 (thoughts eating emotions or sumthin).

    but maybe this is just normal. ??? do u feel me?
    It's perfectly normal and I sometimes think, wonder and even agree with myself that Fi must be the only ones that have any sense of NORMAL feeling processes.

    Um, what Fi does is it attaches sentimental value to objects; it's easy to view an object as whatever it's qualities are without having sentiment attached to it, so that way you can break that object if you feel like it; um, I find that this, in my case, is hard to do without extensive consideration of empathy to the extreme, think about this person and their feelings, that relationship and how that feeling will relate to that person (over analyzing................). STOP.

    Talk to loved ones about what the EFF happened (Te - the function involved in reaching conclusions about objective reality trough watching actions) and whether that other person's skewed perception of reality is somehow being empathetically adopted into my brain, so much so that I begin to think that they are my own feelings, responses and MY own psychological state (perception of reality); most of the time, it's not. Most of the time, what I've attached a sentimental value to, through resonance with another person's feelings is not really my own, in fact sometimes, these sentimental values shouldn't even be for that person. But, but, that I actually experience such wonderful, vivid emotions speak a lot about me and they make it who I am.

    Actually, what happens in the case of having feelings and seeing them as Fact is that you express the inner feelings that want to hide out inside, "I feel sad" is as good as empathy, recognizing not only your own feelings but being able to recognize that of other's through you whether that's objective or not. I catch myself asking people, "are you sad?" because within me such a face, or response was created out of an event that made me sad; this isn't objective, it's subjective (from my own memory bank of things and the way I feel/respond to things when I was sad), not from "oh geez that may be so, but he doesn't seem sad" (as presented by Fe.

    Emotional thought is created by a circular emotional process attaching feeling function to subconscious objective thinking. I feel sad, goes into a state of "I feel sad, I feel sad, I feel sad" because there's thought behind it "why would he DO this?" you see the Te in that question? It's the inability to see events in action through either one's own sense perception or intuitive perception. It's repression of Te by Fi that fires back in obsessive feeling manner and thinking manner. The only way to detach from such a method is by the presence or hearing what Te will say about the matter to, as DJ once said, bring what you already knew, that was in your subconscious (as in you kinda knew the answer but didn't know what it was), release these feelings that made you sad.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 03-12-2013 at 08:27 AM.

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