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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Default Ideals

    What ideals do you hold dear? What quotes exemplify those ideals? What words, phrases, or colloquialisms, inspire you?

    For me it's hardship, endurance, knowledge, and opportunity.

    They sicken of the calm who know the storm.

    Knowledge will give you power, but character respect.

    Come what may, all bad fortune is to be conquered by endurance.

    Fortune favors the brave.

    I dream things that never were and ask "Why not?"
    Easy Day

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    sincerity, fidelity, responsibility, the giving of fucks about people and things that should matter.
    i don't always follow my own ideals as well as i want to.

    "the axe forgets what the tree remembers"

    "a smooth sea never made a skillful sailor"

    "the heart has reasons that reason does not understand"

    "that's the thing about people who mean everything they say: they think everyone else does too."

    "you never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have"

    "start before you're ready"

    "everybody is normal before you get to know them"

    "and in time this too shall pass"

    "don't let your happiness depend on something you may lose"

    "the cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea"

    (i collect these silly quotes lol)

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    I don't feel like thinking, but here's a thingy I read today that I mostly liked: http://www.marcandangel.com/2013/03/...-day/#more-581

    I don't like how sappy/sentimental they come across. . . or something - too mature or um, heck if I know, there's just something that is slightly unreal perhaps, er forget it. Overall the site has some good stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    What ideals do you hold dear? What quotes exemplify those ideals? What words, phrases, or colloquialisms, inspire you?

    For me it's hardship, endurance, knowledge, and opportunity.

    They sicken of the calm who know the storm.

    Knowledge will give you power, but character respect.

    Come what may, all bad fortune is to be conquered by endurance.

    Fortune favors the brave.

    I dream things that never were and ask "Why not?"
    Huh, I'm confused. Why are those ideals, rather than beliefs?

    For example, you quoted
    "Fortune favors the brave."
    So you believe it and think it's an ideal to be brave for fortune? But why is getting fortune by being brave, ideal?

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    Integrity.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    The Soul Happy-er JWC3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    Huh, I'm confused. Why are those ideals, rather than beliefs?

    For example, you quoted
    "Fortune favors the brave."
    So you believe it and think it's an ideal to be brave for fortune? But why is getting fortune by being brave, ideal?
    That's fine. What do you believe then?
    Easy Day

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I don't feel like thinking, but here's a thingy I read today that I mostly liked: http://www.marcandangel.com/2013/03/...-day/#more-581

    I don't like how sappy/sentimental they come across. . . or something - too mature or um, heck if I know, there's just something that is slightly unreal perhaps, er forget it. Overall the site has some good stuff.
    Yea that is pretty interesting-- I especially like how they've framed them as goals to pursue. One thing that always bothers me (personally) about self-help and the like is how they frame things as all about the state of mind and completely ignore any concept of action or implementation. It's sort of dishonest, like "read this and you'll have all the answers!". Framing these as goals makes it a little more down to earth I think. Secondarily I think that all these things could be criticized, but I won't get into that. But for example saying something like "Personal Greatness" is a good idea, but there are several surrounding issues-- how does one define a vision for greatness in their life, and how does one enjoy the present journey to that without becoming overly fixated to some distant lofty goal and therefore upset when there path is disrupted. That's kind of the problem with a lot of stuff like this, its like... yea personal greatness is a good thing to pursue but that's not really the issue its more about all the details. Like why would someone stop pursuing personal greatness? Are they re-envisioning what's important in their life or maybe that's just an excuse because they stop believing in themselves and fear failure. How can they practicality pursue that vision piece by piece and keep the morale high in doing so? etc etc

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    I don't really have any hard and fast "ideals" that I've bothered to define and I don't really feel like digging up quotes from various people, however some stuff I'm currently focusing on --

    The Present
    Trying to be more in the present, trying to heighten my awareness of the present and how it connects to end goals as part of a journey, criticizing my past choices that lead me into monotonous/boring/dissatisfying events in my life (do I really have to do this to get were I am going, or have I lost my vision, if its part of the vision then why am I not enjoying this). Trying to make the most of out the present moment so that in theory if that day is the day I die, I can feel somewhat satisfied on how I lived that die. This of course I've realized is not how I live my life, on most days I'm overwhelmed with boredom and feel like an indentured servant consumer/employee and would find dying very depressing, although I'm working on this as a pathway to my liberation from this mentality.

    Choosing Battles and Exercising Strategy
    Trying to exercise intelligent ways of dealing with conflicts or annoyances, instead of being baited into brash actions and destructive emotional states as a result of anger as a result of some assholes actions, to instead be proactive (versus reactive) about dealing with conflicts, exercising intelligent strategy (keep potential actions secret until the right point), reading up on the philosophy of strategy and war, acknowledging anger as it applies to a larger context or picture-- so instead of reacting immediately negatively to something upsetting to instead process that anger into a longer term campaign of action which can effectively deal with the problem in whatever way is appropriate.

    Being Assertive
    Trying to learn how to assert myself as an alternative to passive-aggression, victimization, or entitled attitudes that could result from failures on my part to be assertive and take action when its required. For example instead of getting talked into something negative or passively accepting a bad deal and then later retaliating aggressively or blaming it on the other party-- instead to assert or request an alternative. This isn't so hard, but I'm mainly talking about really difficult things, like when your request or assertion may bring about conflict with a stranger due to the nature of the dispute or is socially controversial. I've discovered a lot of times I can be passive or phony and I dislike it, I realize other people are as well, but I want to learn how to better assert my real feelings and ideas in situations even if they could bring about conflict or controversy.

    Enduring and Powering through Adversity
    Learning how to push through a shitty situation in order to achieve important goals without getting pinned down on something irrelevant or unimportant. This is really typical and ties in with the other 3. For example if I chase every conflict (although I may feel my anger is legitimate) this from a purely utilitarian standpoint is a bad choice, it makes me strategically reactive versus proactive. A wise strategist instead deals with war by proactively attacking what is weak, versus being drawn into what is strong, and will sometimes even retreat when it is not always what feels best. Sometimes you find yourself in a shitty situation which you really feel you shouldn't have to deal with, but you push through solely to get to the next thing and then re-evaluate the negative experience and develop some sort of proactive strategy with addressing the problem.

    Learning to be Content Alone
    This is not so much out of a desire to be alone or an unhealthy narcissistic love of myself, but rather as a way to prevent myself from falling into attitudes of entitlement, possessiveness, and victimization that result from being alone. Feeling like you are entitled to the attention of another person. Once again I've notice most people (not to judge) do horribly at this... but I've realized that I don't want any relationship that counts to be defined by a sort of condescending sympathy, which I think will happen if I carry around a fear of being alone. To desire some sort of relation isn't bad, but to feel entitled to it or try to force it may be bad and could lead to someone else taking advantage of that victim attitude or it could define things as a condescending relationship. Many people with strong social ties also have never had to endure feeling alone, those that do usually develop these problems. People try to be nice, but its not real and condescending -- people take advantage of them, and yea it sucks, but its something I think I should develop.

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    The first one that comes to mind is Endurance/Perseverance.
    Accommodation.
    Unity.
    Simplicity.
    Personal growth.


    But Perseverance is probably the biggest one for me.

    "My past is not a memory. Its a force at my back. It pushes and steers. I may not always like where it leads me... but like any story, the past needs resolution. What's past, is prologue."
    "We acquire the strength we have overcome."
    “What matters most is how well you walk through the fire.”

    And even though I value perseverance, I find I am almost always sort of wondering about the experience of being fully demolished and being granted the freedom to start over.
    I want to see how much I can handle before I break. I like to test my limits.
    Perhaps this is not healthy of me in the eyes of some, or even many. But to me, I just want to experience true peace for a moment.
    The idea is so beautiful to me.
    Maybe I should meditate.

    But I never do "break", despite wanting to understand the feeling of true exhaustion. I don't know if a person can break truly. There is always the past, which created you, isn't there?
    We are all sort of like beads on a network of strings, almost like a ginormous dream-catcher. If we tug on any string in any way, everything else will move with it. I tug on that string sometimes. And pull on it.
    It isn't a masochistic sort of thing at all, I don't think.


    I am just amazed at how much people can take. How resilient they are capable of being.
    And I wonder if people can break.
    I want to be like a phoenix.
    I want that moment of complete exhaustion...when I can't carry the weight anymore. I want that blink of true resolution and peace. Because I feel like I will never break. It sort of frustrates me, and I don't know why.

    Maybe what I really want is orgasm. Haha. That's sort of what it sounds like, reading over what I've written.

    And this "breaking" I speak of isn't a negative breaking. It isn't a shattering of all things. It's just a moment of reprieve -- a chance to pick up the pieces and build up stronger.
    Maybe "break" is the wrong term. I don't know what term to use though.

    I just want to collapse into myself and come back blazing, in a more solid, simple, and concrete form. I feel so wishy-washy.
    This is all just coming out of my brain and spilling out here, so I apologize if it's nonsensical.
    Last edited by fen; 03-07-2013 at 06:51 PM.
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    no fen, that made a lot of sense <3

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    but yeah, preserverance. and not breaking. maybe if you just keep digging your way through the tunnel you'll just go on forever and what you need to become a pheonix is find a door in the wall that leads outside. just a thought.

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    Killer of DJA's Fun fen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    maybe if you just keep digging your way through the tunnel you'll just go on forever and what you need to become a pheonix is find a door in the wall that leads outside. just a thought.
    I love this thought.

    I guess my conflict is in that I want to understand both the purest darkness and lightness of human experience.
    Or something.
    I feel the compulsion to experience both sides of the coin.

    What am I sayinggggg?
    And I would hide my face in you and you would hide your face in me, and nobody would ever see us any more.


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    There we go! Spoilers to avoid the tl:dr exploding eyeballs. I'm glad I did this post though. I haven't really given this stuff much thought for a while and I've felt adrift. These are important to me, even if I've forgotten it and even when I've run from them.

     
    “Only once in your life, I truly believe, you find someone who can completely turn your world around. You tell them things that you’ve never shared with another soul and they absorb everything you say and actually want to hear more. You share hopes for the future, dreams that will never come true, goals that were never achieved and the many disappointments life has thrown at you. When something wonderful happens, you can’t wait to tell them about it, knowing they will share in your excitement. They are not embarrassed to cry with you when you are hurting or laugh with you when you make a fool of yourself. Never do they hurt your feelings or make you feel like you are not good enough, but rather they build you up and show you the things about yourself that make you special and even beautiful. There is never any pressure, jealousy or competition but only a quiet calmness when they are around. You can be yourself and not worry about what they will think of you because they love you for who you are. The things that seem insignificant to most people such as a note, song or walk become invaluable treasures kept safe in your heart to cherish forever. Memories of your childhood come back and are so clear and vivid it’s like being young again. Colours seem brighter and more brilliant. Laughter seems part of daily life where before it was infrequent or didn’t exist at all. A phone call or two during the day helps to get you through a long day’s work and always brings a smile to your face. In their presence, there’s no need for continuous conversation, but you find you’re quite content in just having them nearby. Things that never interested you before become fascinating because you know they are important to this person who is so special to you. You think of this person on every occasion and in everything you do. Simple things bring them to mind like a pale blue sky, gentle wind or even a storm cloud on the horizon. You open your heart knowing that there’s a chance it may be broken one day and in opening your heart, you experience a love and joy that you never dreamed possible. You find that being vulnerable is the only way to allow your heart to feel true pleasure that’s so real it scares you. You find strength in knowing you have a true friend and possibly a soul mate who will remain loyal to the end. Life seems completely different, exciting and worthwhile. Your only hope and security is in knowing that they are a part of your life.”
    ― Bob Marley

    “I am nothing special, of this I am sure. I am a common man with common thoughts and I've led a common life. There are no monuments dedicated to me and my name will soon be forgotten, but I've loved another with all my heart and soul, and to me, this has always been enough..”
    ― Nicholas Sparks, The Notebook


     
    “A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”
    ― Albert Einstein

    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.”
    ― Bill Hicks


     
    “If your daily life seems poor, do not blame it; blame yourself, tell yourself that you are not poet enough to call forth its riches; for to the creator there is no poverty and no poor indifferent place.”
    ― Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

    “Live quietly in the moment and see the beauty of all before you. The future will take care of itself......”
    ― Paramahansa Yogananda, Autobiography of a Yogi


     
    “Courage: the most important of all the virtues because without courage, you can't practice any other virtue consistently.”
    ― Maya Angelou

    “A man with outward courage dares to die; a man with inner courage dares to live.”
    ― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching


     
    "Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he isn't. A sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
    - Horace Walpole

    "It is a curious fact that people are never so trivial as when they take themselves seriously."
    - Oscar Wilde


     

    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Ideals are ideals only as far one accepts them and for some people they are fixed as if they were lunatics.

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    Robot Assassin Pa3s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    "and in time this too shall pass"
    „Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
    – Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa3s
    "From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity." – Edvard Munch

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    The ability to make a point
    Last edited by rat1; 03-08-2013 at 02:50 AM.

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    Evil Fen. You almost sound like a masochistic enneagram 4 with all this breakage nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by fen View Post
    Maybe what I really want is orgasm. Haha. That's sort of what it sounds like, reading over what I've written.
    There you have it. I almost didn't think of that, but I'm sure that's what it is.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  20. #20
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    god this topic is kind of corny, god.... *puts head down in shame*. I feel dirty having typed something here, I probably should

    erase it


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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  22. #22
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    Nm its not so bad, but I'd probably want to trade around some ideals... some people just have better ideals lists and plus mune spoilered his -- which is probably what I should have done.

    Although arnold doesn't have any movies where he is named the "spoiler".

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    That's fine. What do you believe then?
    I typically don't.

    "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

    That's enough for me.


    Sorry, that's not what people want to read, but it's true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    Sorry, that's not what people want to read, but it's true.
    No, that's just your perspective.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    lol

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    Life experience. or experiencing anything really.
    Independence.
    Self-awareness.
    Awareness of others in your sphere-- how you're affecting them, how they're affecting you-- and just awareness of the world outside of themselves.

    I love the quotes @lungs posted and the one mune posted by Einstein.

    1) "Any idiot can get angry. That's easy. But to get angry with the right person, in the right amount, at the right time, for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power. That is not easy." -Aristotle

    2) "The things that keep me alive keep me alone" -fink.

    3) "And what do you believe in?,' the parish priest asked sternly. She answered, 'I believe in birth, copulation, and death. Although copulation embodies the other two, and death is only a form of borning. At any rate I was born years ago. Someday I shall die. Today, I think I'll copulate.' And indeed she did." - Tom Robbins

    4) "Just because you're naked doesn't mean you're sexy. Just because you're cynical doesn't mean you're cool."
    — Tom Robbins

    5) "Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable.” -Sydney Smith

    6) "This is how it works:
    You're young until you're not
    You love until you don't
    You try until you can't
    You laugh until you cry
    You cry until you laugh
    And everyone must breathe
    Until their dying breath

    You peer inside yourself
    You take the things you like
    And try to love the things you took
    And then you take that love you made
    And stick it into someone else's heart
    Pumping someone else's blood
    And walking arm in arm
    You hope it don't get harmed
    But even if it does
    You'll just do it all again" - regina spektor

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    oooo blackburry a couple of yours gave me pangs of shame, which means they're good. ha

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    haha, which ones?

    Yeah I like to read those as reminders..and they just... fit my mindset.

    these were my fav of yours:
    "everybody is normal before you get to know them"

    "don't let your happiness depend on something you may lose"

    "the cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea"

    and fen, i know exactly what you mean. I dislike living in the middle, being mediocre. Sometimes it's fine, there's a time for it. but in general, I'd rather be feeling something. doing something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    haha, which ones?
    the stuff about awareness and the aristotle quote about anger.

    the "sweat, tears, or the sea" one is gold, so much truth in such a little package, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    No, that's just your perspective.
    And when did I say it wasn't?

    And thanks for affirming it.

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    @Thread

    circle-jerking

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    Anyway, you guys are annoying, interpreting slights and insults whenever you can.

    @Park

    "Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."

    It's the idea that anything "we" see isn't universally true "or always true". It doesn't however mean I think there is no truth to our perspectives. No need to be a little bitch. I answered JWC and you guys are asshats. Go away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    Anyway, you guys are annoying, interpreting slights and insults whenever you can.

    @Park

    "Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."

    It's the idea that anything "we" see isn't universally true "or always true". It doesn't however mean I think there is no truth to our perspectives. No need to be a little bitch. I answered JWC and you guys are asshats. Go away.
    This is the most ironic thing i've read in a long time.
    "Anyway, you guys are annoying, interpreting slights and insults whenever you can." - After no one interpreted a slight.

    "No need to be a little bitch. I answered JWC and you guys are asshats. Go away." - After no one slighted you.

    Is that double irony, or triple irony?
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

  34. #34
    boom boom boom blackburry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackk View Post
    @Thread

    circle-jerking
    you're the only one ruining this thread, why not just stop posting in it and gtfo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    This is the most ironic thing i've read in a long time.
    "Anyway, you guys are annoying, interpreting slights and insults whenever you can." - After no one interpreted a slight.

    "No need to be a little bitch. I answered JWC and you guys are asshats. Go away." - After no one slighted you.

    Is that double irony, or triple irony?
    Park made fun of my post, as if I was insulting people by what I said. You're unreal. There's no irony other than you being an asshat in denying that, but thinking you actually know better.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    you're the only one ruining this thread, why not just stop posting in it and gtfo?
    Yeah, as long as your contribution to the thread is valued and everyone "likes" it, that makes it okay to shit on those you don't like. Well I'm glad you're okay with Park shitting all over me; it makes your opinion worthless as shit.

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    God, why do you guys think no one talks about socionics anymore? And why do you think threads always devolve into shit?

    I'm not even the one who started this, but if the best you guys can do is deny that, you deserve shit from me - and that's typically how this goes on here.

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    WAR

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    @Ryene Astraelis

    Good to see you're still an asshole. It's nice of you to like a post and take a side over personal business that has nothing to do with you - REAL CLASSY. And if that's class, then I don't know what is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shang Tsung View Post
    Yea that is pretty interesting-- I especially like how they've framed them as goals to pursue. One thing that always bothers me (personally) about self-help and the like is how they frame things as all about the state of mind and completely ignore any concept of action or implementation. It's sort of dishonest, like "read this and you'll have all the answers!". Framing these as goals makes it a little more down to earth I think. Secondarily I think that all these things could be criticized, but I won't get into that. But for example saying something like "Personal Greatness" is a good idea, but there are several surrounding issues-- how does one define a vision for greatness in their life, and how does one enjoy the present journey to that without becoming overly fixated to some distant lofty goal and therefore upset when there path is disrupted. That's kind of the problem with a lot of stuff like this, its like... yea personal greatness is a good thing to pursue but that's not really the issue its more about all the details. Like why would someone stop pursuing personal greatness? Are they re-envisioning what's important in their life or maybe that's just an excuse because they stop believing in themselves and fear failure. How can they practicality pursue that vision piece by piece and keep the morale high in doing so? etc etc
    Yeah - they SOUND good, but in practice, every day kind of things - I don't know. I like the page, but at the same time I don't, it's a little too . . . something for my taste. Moralistic? Ungrounded? You're right though, even framed as goals there is a kind of dishonesty, a kind of self-deception in thinking about these 'high-minded ideals' and what not when you're only thinking, and doing none of them.

    I think Park's answer was really the best - to live with integrity. That's the most important thing. To have integrity you have to be honest with yourself, really see yourself and be okay with your flaws and errors, and you have to know who you are, and then you can live in congruence with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I think Park's answer was really the best - to live with integrity. That's the most important thing. To have integrity you have to be honest with yourself, really see yourself and be okay with your flaws and errors, and you have to know who you are, and then you can live in congruence with that.
    Wow, real classy as well. No Park's answer isn't somehow better than everyone else's just because you think so. Everyone's answer is fine; they are just different.

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