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Thread: Introversion vs Extroversion

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    Default Introversion vs. Extroversion

    How to determine whether someone is an extroverted Introvert or an introverted Extravert? Introverts can be open, talkative, warm, then apparently they're Extroverts. For example I have found Extroverted ISFJs and ISTJs. Can someone shed some light on this?

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    Work off this question; How often do they need to be left alone?
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Idk if this helps, but the bolded is Socionics criteria and the striked-out is the variable you noted: "introverts can be open, talkative, warm." I think there's an obvious difference, as visa versa a lot of extroverts of every type are socially introverted and to various degrees. The distinction is where one's focus and energy is orienting, despite if they're talking a lot or seem not to be paying attention to anyone at all.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/introverted
    Marked by interest in or preoccupation with oneself or one's own thoughts as opposed to others or the environment; shy or reserved.
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...d_introversion
    5. More often focused on their thoughts and feelings.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extroverted
    Marked by interest in and behavior directed toward others or the environment as opposed to or to the exclusion of self; gregarious or outgoing.
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...d_introversion
    5. More often focused on their surroundings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Idk if this helps, but the bolded is Socionics criteria and the striked-out is the variable you noted: "introverts can be open, talkative, warm." I think there's an obvious difference, as visa versa a lot of extroverts of every type are socially introverted and to various degrees. The distinction is where one's focus and energy is orienting, despite if they're talking a lot or seem not to be paying attention to anyone at all.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/introverted
    Marked by interest in or preoccupation with oneself or one's own thoughts as opposed to others or the environment; shy or reserved.
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...d_introversion
    5. More often focused on their thoughts and feelings.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extroverted
    Marked by interest in and behavior directed toward others or the environment as opposed to or to the exclusion of self; gregarious or outgoing.
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...d_introversion
    5. More often focused on their surroundings.
    I think about this a lot, because I fit the Gulenko EIE description very closely, and yet I seem to require lots of solitude. I read someone's remark in another thread about the need for external validation as being a clue. The introversion/extraversion question is my biggest obstacle in deciding on my type.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by polikujm View Post
    Idk if this helps, but the bolded is Socionics criteria and the striked-out is the variable you noted: "introverts can be open, talkative, warm." I think there's an obvious difference, as visa versa a lot of extroverts of every type are socially introverted and to various degrees. The distinction is where one's focus and energy is orienting, despite if they're talking a lot or seem not to be paying attention to anyone at all.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/introverted
    Marked by interest in or preoccupation with oneself or one's own thoughts as opposed to others or the environment; shy or reserved.
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...d_introversion
    5. More often focused on their thoughts and feelings.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extroverted
    Marked by interest in and behavior directed toward others or the environment as opposed to or to the exclusion of self; gregarious or outgoing.
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...d_introversion
    5. More often focused on their surroundings.
    To me it depends on the situation. I often need time alone definately, everyday I need to alone for some hours. But I'm very focused on the environment around me, this could be related to my depression though - the need for being left alone - but I really don't know. I find the E vs I dychotomy the hardest to define in someone using Socionics.

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    "Extraverted types
    Psychic energy more often flows outwards.
    Energy level increases when interacting with a large group of people.
    Energy level decreases when they are alone.
    Energy level is generally higher.
    More often focused on their surroundings.
    Tend to be more active and initiating.
    Often make new friends easily.
    Often better at presenting themselves.
    Often prefer to work in a team.
    Introverted types
    Psychic energy more often flows inwards.
    Energy level increases when they are alone.
    Energy level decreases when interacting with a large group of people.
    Energy level is generally lower.
    More often focused on their thoughts and feelings.
    Tend to be more passive, less initiating.
    Often do not have many friends.
    Often better at concentrating.
    Often prefer to work alone."

    If this is fact, then there are some definite pointers. Then I'm either ESFJ or ESTJ.

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    I find the typelist and photo gallery to be excellent practice for getting the hang of this. Compare the way introverts are naturally faded and withheld internally, vs the extroverts' occupying and observant presence in reality.
    Last edited by 717495; 03-06-2013 at 06:32 PM.

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    THERE IS NO STANDALONE I/E DICHOTOMY IN SOCIONICS EVERYONE KNOWS THAT LEAVE THIS FORUM AND DONT LOOK BACK IN ANGER DO THIS

    do it.
    unholy water sanguine addiction

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    Quote Originally Posted by the16types View Post
    THERE IS NO STANDALONE I/E DICHOTOMY IN SOCIONICS EVERYONE KNOWS THAT LEAVE THIS FORUM AND DONT LOOK BACK IN ANGER DO THIS

    do it.
    ^Awesomeness! Do you mean that the dichotomies are better viewed as a sliding scale than either/or? Sorry if that is a dumb question. Because I have wondered about that, for example I seem myself fairly balanced between strategic/tactical. Obstinate/compliant is more clear to me. Definitely obstinate.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Air View Post
    "Extraverted types
    Psychic energy more often flows outwards.
    Energy level increases when interacting with a large group of people.
    Energy level decreases when they are alone.
    Energy level is generally higher.
    More often focused on their surroundings.
    Tend to be more active and initiating.
    Often make new friends easily.
    Often better at presenting themselves.
    Often prefer to work in a team.
    Introverted types
    Psychic energy more often flows inwards.
    Energy level increases when they are alone.
    Energy level decreases when interacting with a large group of people.
    Energy level is generally lower.
    More often focused on their thoughts and feelings.
    Tend to be more passive, less initiating.
    Often do not have many friends.
    Often better at concentrating.
    Often prefer to work alone."

    If this is fact, then there are some definite pointers. Then I'm either ESFJ or ESTJ.
    If you are deciding between LSE and SLI, which I see in your signature, I think that SLIs are more reflective before speaking or acting. They can speak emphatically, like an LSE, but I think SLIs are not as much interested in directing other people's activity, or manipulating the environment, unless it concerns them personally. The SLIs that I know have more of a blank look in their eye, until you engage them in something that they are interested in. LSEs seem to have more of an active look in their eyes most of the time. It is harder for me to discern ESE and LSE, but I think ESE does come across as more naturally sociable. With LSEs, it is more of a façade of sociability. Like underneath, they are all business. Which I guess is the merry/serious dichotomy. Do you find yourself trying to influence the (Fe) mood of the room you are in? That would be more of an ESE approach. Also, look at the type of person that would be a good working partner for you. Would you benefit most from the logical assistance of an LII or the ethical assistance of an EII. (Don't mean to oversimplify the implications of duality, just trying to hit the points that stand out to me.) Which of those two types would benefit most from your help?
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    If you are deciding between LSE and SLI, which I see in your signature, I think that SLIs are more reflective before speaking or acting. They can speak emphatically, like an LSE, but I think SLIs are not as much interested in directing other people's activity, or manipulating the environment, unless it concerns them personally. The SLIs that I know have more of a blank look in their eye, until you engage them in something that they are interested in. LSEs seem to have more of an active look in their eyes most of the time. It is harder for me to discern ESE and LSE, but I think ESE does come across as more naturally sociable. With LSEs, it is more of a façade of sociability. Like underneath, they are all business. Which I guess is the merry/serious dichotomy. Do you find yourself trying to influence the (Fe) mood of the room you are in? That would be more of an ESE approach. Also, look at the type of person that would be a good working partner for you. Would you benefit most from the logical assistance of an LII or the ethical assistance of an EII. (Don't mean to oversimplify the implications of duality, just trying to hit the points that stand out to me.) Which of those two types would benefit most from your help?
    Thanks for the help. I guess if I answer all these questions sincerely then there is a conflict. I benefit from Ti, but in turn I am not very sociable, I'm actually very formal most of the time. I seem to be Introverted if the blank look is a sign of SLI. Some people previously typed me as LSI because of this look, but I'm much more Te than Ti-oriented. Then you see the dillema. I actually get pissed-off, extremely irritated by circumstances and people (ex. extreme heat, people not respecting me or each other) but I don't see LSIs being so hot-tempered. I see LSIs I know are mostly cold, but when they do get to show they're pissed-off, they get extremely pissed-off very fast. I get angry slower, usually by a series of happenings, while LSIs get angry suddenly then suddenly turn back to cold. It is as if they have more dominance of Se, while with me Se bursts and stays for some time, I can be forceful for some days, then I get extremely tired after that and go back to normal (which I think is Si) peace of mind.

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    Do you understand the joke(SLI)? When you dont understand the joke, do you laugh anyway(ESE)? Otherwise, LSE.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    I think about this a lot, because I fit the Gulenko EIE description very closely, and yet I seem to require lots of solitude. I read someone's remark in another thread about the need for external validation as being a clue. The introversion/extraversion question is my biggest obstacle in deciding on my type.
    Me too.

    I better identify with IEI, but everyone keeps telling me I'm EIE.

    *Shrug*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Do you understand the joke(SLI)? When you dont understand the joke, do you laugh anyway(ESE)? Otherwise, LSE.
    This seems over-simplified, but I think, from all of it, Im really LSE after all. Extroverted, no strong real Fe.

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    I think DJA is going to shed some light on this after he asks the same question, besides, you answered your own question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I think DJA is going to shed some light on this after he asks the same question, besides, you answered your own question.
    Does this mean you think I'm LSE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Air View Post
    This seems over-simplified, but I think, from all of it, Im really LSE after all. Extroverted, no strong real Fe.
    They have some nice folks over in the Delta forum.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmj View Post
    Me too.

    I better identify with IEI, but everyone keeps telling me I'm EIE.

    *Shrug*
    One of the things that has caused me to favor EIE for myself is that I tend to be more proactive about carrying out my ideas than do many IEIs that I know. (Not saying I am more effective, just more proactive.) Which I guess could be Se hidden agenda, a sense of urgency that must be acted on. I can be very impatient and drive myself pretty hard. I think IEIs are better at biding their time, and choosing their battles wisely.
    You seek a great fortune, you three who are now in chains. You will find a fortune, though it will not be the one you seek.
    But first you must travel a long and difficult road, a road fraught with peril.
    You shall see things, wonderful to tell. You shall see a... cow... on the roof of a cotton house. And, oh, so many startlements.
    I cannot tell you how long this road shall be, but fear not the ob-stacles in your path, for fate has vouchsafed your reward.
    Though the road may wind, yea, your hearts grow weary, still shall ye follow them, even unto your salvation
    .


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pukq_XJmM-k

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iris View Post
    One of the things that has caused me to favor EIE for myself is that I tend to be more proactive about carrying out my ideas than do many IEIs that I know. (Not saying I am more effective, just more proactive.) Which I guess could be Se hidden agenda, a sense of urgency that must be acted on. I can be very impatient and drive myself pretty hard. I think IEIs are better at biding their time, and choosing their battles wisely.
    I see it differently. For me it is not hard to tell an IEI from an EIE. EIEs are mostly very proactive - in this I agree with you - but they also have much more Fe, much more of an upbeat mood. Besides, the EJ temperament is clear in them. Most EIEs I know are very proactive and very upbeat, they tend to be severely depressed if they're not well and then that's the only possibility I see them being confused with IEIs. IEIs are more melancholic, darker, less active. ENFJs are kind of similar to ESFJs in a sense, except that they're Betas and their Se-HA is very clear. Most EIEs I know have as their major objective in life being rich. They also like to display signs of their wealth such as buying very expensive stuff and then throwing it in the face of people who have less money. They tend to be, though, as a general, happier than INFPs. I find INFPs very confused, very much dark and they kind of enjoy this darkness they seem to live in. They're more self-destructive than EIEs when not well. They're also far more interested in that french pseudo-intellectual stuff like movies from Godard, Woody Allen and psychoanalysis. They tend to be less open-minded about things they do not agree with, will usually stick to their ideas until they decide it's given them a tough time (base Ni). It's interesting that I see all types with leading Ni enjoying this melancholic, out-of-this-world time they spend tripping alone, majorly on very pessimistic ideas and a kind of masochism - they actually enjoy suffering. Ni leading types have a very good thing though, they can be overcome by a sudden burst of confidence and optimism which generally lasts for some days or even months. I have an IEI aunt and an ILI parent so these observations come mainly from dealing with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Air View Post
    Does this mean you think I'm LSE?
    I think you're Blair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    I think you're Blair.
    Then what is your typing of him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Air View Post
    Then what is your typing of him?
    Do I look like a run a typing spreadsheet? No.

    Seriously, you went this far, settled on SLI and inquire how other people type you, great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absurd View Post
    Do I look like a run a typing spreadsheet? No.

    Seriously, you went this far, settled on SLI and inquire how other people type you, great.
    I didn't settle on SLI. I consider it the most likely. I also consider LSE and LSI.

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    Basically, type them based on function placement and quadra values then gauge how sociable they are. Just gauge socionics and extroversion or introversion separately.
    Easy Day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Air View Post
    I didn't settle on SLI. I consider it the most likely. I also consider LSE and LSI.
    Okay, let me know when you stopped considering and are able to make a decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWC3 View Post
    Basically, type them based on function placement and quadra values then gauge how sociable they are. Just gauge socionics and extroversion or introversion separately.
    Do you mean what is written in Wiki abt Intro and Extro is useless?

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    I'm introverted.

    But once you get me talking, good luck getting me to shut up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I'm introverted.

    But once you get me talking, good luck getting me to shut up.
    I don't think this is uncommon with Introverts. It seems the real thing is to START the conversation. Once it's established an Introvert can be more talkative than Extrovert. If I'm really ISTP I'm very much more talkative than my ENTJ friend when we really start talking about something - usually he starts talking then I complement and comment endlessly.
    It may be useful to read the T-wars link that was posted in the thread Why am I Extroverted. I really miss Aiss, she was the person who first taught me how to type and taught me quadra values. I wonder why she's absent now.

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