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Thread: ENTP vs INTP

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    Default ENTP vs INTP

    I don't know if anyone has discussed this before, but I think alot of confusion over whether someone is an ENTP or an INTP has to do with the reason why they have been isolated from society in some way.

    Including myself, most ENTPs are expedient people who arn't afraid to challenge social norms and the status quo; they have alot of charm and sociability when they arn't annoying the heck out of people, which could be alot or all the time. I think as a result of this, ENTPs sometimes form an inferiority complex where they believe that people do not like them and that they are not accepted. This will cause someone who would be otherwise and extravert to develope tendencies to compensate for this fact; maybe even an ENTP would even stop trying to associate with society causing them to appear quiet or introverted regardless of the fact that they would rather associate with people as an extravert. Often for this reason they become aloof and detached and be sporatic with people they like, being hot or cold at various times. This is part of the reason I think that many ENTPs test as INTP when actually ENTP fits them better, as indicated by the fact that the description of an ENTP fits me 100% where as an INTP maybe 25% even though I tested origionally as an introvert.

    On the other hand, an INTP may have no real reason to be introverted besides the fact that they just are naturally introverts. Maybe society reinforces their introversion, maybe it doesn't. It could just be who they are inside and don't really feel much for society and that suits them just fine.

    As for me, I would rather associate with society, but I don't follow societal norms and I am judged because of that, so I stay secluded sometimes to avoid conflict. I hate it, and would rather be with people. But, that is the way it is with people.

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    Sounds like you are under the negative influence of your Superego. Don't try to type yourself just yet wait and become more familiar with the types and then see what you think. Try to do a functional analysis of yourself once you pick it up. Just some cautious advice.

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    I'd want to know if other ENTPs have felt the same way, there seems to be this odd luminous similarity between the way we feel and behave ... it is just weird ...

    Disco Joe I hope sees this and comments.

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    I'm not so sure Discojoe is ENTP.

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    In either case, we have have things very eerily in common ... if we are the same type, then I bet he would understand this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    I'm not so sure Discojoe is ENTP.
    Ohhhh ho ho ... don't be so sure of that ...
    oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?p=7026#7026

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    Ohhhh ho ho ... don't be so sure of that ...
    Or don't be so not sure of that... :wink:
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Yeah, that's a better way to put it ... :wink:

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    You might want to check this out.

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    I don't compare myself to other men, I let the women do that ...

    Plus, I don't see how that doesn't make him an ENTp ...

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    Did you read all 4 pages? He is definitely ExTP but has displayed some Se characteristics on here... So nothing conclusive (he may just have a strong role) but still it's a possibility.

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    Default Russian Comments

    What you could still do is to read this machine translated article from some Russian Forum. The statements seem rather categorical, but there is something to it...

    Don Quixote and Balzac (Slow to upload.)
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Pedro, I read all 4 pages ... me and disco joe have so much in common when it comes to habits it is rediculous.

    However, his gauze could have S qualities. N eyes normally have this distant gaze look like you are looking into a dark pit when you look into them. S eyes are bright and beaming and open.

    Hmmm, time to do some physical comparisons I think.

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    I have wondered if DiscoJoe is ENTp as well, but it could just be a matter of experience. on average we expect a certain "type" of person to visit these pages. we have our own stereotypes of what an ENTp, or INTj, etc... is, but there are variations. I've known a few ENTp's with stronger sensing. It could have alot to do with his height.

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    I thnk we should do some V.I. comparisons here ..

    I am on the left, disco joe is on the right ...



    These two are both ESTPs ...




    I think we are both ESTps ... I could not find any decent matches for either one of us in my index besides some striking resemblences to ESTp, even in the russian archive pics.

    If disco joe is an ESTp, it looks like I'm going down with him as an ESTp ...

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    On the other hand, ENTp and ESTp are look-a-like relations ... it is possible we are ENTps that look like ESTps ... that could explain why we both fit ENTp better.

    I hate those page breaks sometimes ...

    here it is again ...

    I thnk we should do some V.I. comparisons here ..

    I am on the left, disco joe is on the right ...



    These two are both ESTPs ...




    I think we are both ESTps ... I could not find any decent matches for either one of us in my index besides some striking resemblences to ESTp, even in the russian archive pics.

    If disco joe is an ESTp, it looks like I'm going down with him as an ESTp ...

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    Guys, I was posing for the camera in those pictures, and the ESTP profile does not fit me well at all. I believe my sensing function is well developed, which causes some ESTP pushiness. Otherwise I am ENTP. I have had both my parents and my closest friend compare me to the types and celebrity page on socionics.com, and they all agree that I share the distinguishing characteristics of the ENTPs there, namely, eyes, nose, shape of jaw. Some of the ENTPs there have very strong gazes.

    Maybe my gaze was strong in that picture, and maybe I can be bossy, but when this happens it is a result of pressure and stress. A sort of last resort. But those two things going against the evidence of me being ENTP fail miserably.

    Also, rncnew, I do not believe I look very much like that ESTP whom you posted a picture of. I believe you may be jumping the gun, using your intuition to make too huge a leap. Step back and analyze all of the evidence. From all that I know I am definetely not ESTP, and am almost certainly ENTP.

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    Back to the main point: I agree that our unorthodox way of thinking, and general annoyingness is something that causes us to become secluded and test as introvert. This is a problem in my life that I am actively trying to overcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Did you read all 4 pages? He is definitely ExTP but has displayed some Se characteristics on here... So nothing conclusive (he may just have a strong role) but still it's a possibility.
    Can you point out the part of my posts that had "Se" in them? I want to know what I said that made you think ESTP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Also, rncnew, I do not believe I look very much like that ESTP whom you posted a picture of. I believe you may be jumping the gun, using your intuition to make too huge a leap. Step back and analyze all of the evidence. From all that I know I am definetely not ESTP, and am almost certainly ENTP.
    I disagree, I think we both look like the pictures I posted of ESTps, but that does not mean that either one of us are ESTps. Maybe not exactly, but the eyes, noses, and jaws are basically the same set.

    ENTps and ESTps are look-a-like relations, meaning that People who are ENTPs can look like ESTps and vice versa. Just because we look like ESTps does not mean that we act like ESTps.

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    I'm sorry, what is it that you disagree with? All I said was that basing your opinion of our types on that one VI was hasty, and that you should compare and analyze the evidence. You disagree with this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Back to the main point: I agree that our unorthodox way of thinking, and general annoyingness is something that causes us to become secluded and test as introvert. This is a problem in my life that I am actively trying to overcome.
    I knew it! ... for some reason I knew you would understand what it is that I was saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-the-Lion
    Did you read all 4 pages? He is definitely ExTP but has displayed some Se characteristics on here... So nothing conclusive (he may just have a strong role) but still it's a possibility.
    Can you point out the part of my posts that had "Se" in them? I want to know what I said that made you think ESTP.
    If I remember correctly he said that he could tell by looking at your eyes.

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    My eyes? HAHA. I was posing, trying to look sexy or something. My girlfriend took that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    I'm sorry, what is it that you disagree with? All I said was that basing your opinion of our types on that one VI was hasty, and that you should compare and analyze the evidence. You disagree with this?
    Maybe I misunderstood ... I agree with analyzing all of the evidence including V.I., but to say that we look ESTP does not mean that we actually are ESTp. I was backing up the point that we are really ENTp ...

    Now, what I was saying was that between the ENTp V.I. pics and the ESTp V.I. pics, the only people that expressed physical traits similar to ours was in the ESTp section. However, ESTp and ENTp have look-a-like relations, so we very well could be actually ENTps in behaviour despite the V.I.

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    First off, for the record, if you reread your post you said that you think we are ESTP, which is where I became confused.

    Second, I think I do in fact look ENTP. Go to the types and celebrities page, and you will see similar jaw, eyes, and noses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    First off, for the record, if you reread your post you said that you think we are ESTP, which is where I became confused.
    I also said that if I am ESTp, then I'm going down with you. That was one heck of a coincidence if you think about it.

    That was also before I went and read that ENTps and ESTps are look-a-like relations. I probably would not have posted that if I read it beforehand.

    Second, I think I do in fact look ENTP. Go to the types and celebrities page, and you will see similar jaw, eyes, and noses.
    Yes, I don't doubt that, but that is because ESTps and ENTps have look-a-like relations. However, there are only a few isolated subtialities to tell them apart. Most of the time they look very much alike.

    That is why people are saying that you could be ESTp ... personally I don't think any one of us are taking that we seem to think and act so much alike.

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    I really doubt you are and ESTp. I think VI is something to be a little more cautious of.

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    In my opinion you both act like ENTp's, and disco joe, you do look like an ENTp, but you also look like your extraverted sensing is very confident.

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    Actually, I was reading the ESTp characteristics and there are some things there that I have done, but it doesn't fit me as well as the explanation of ENTP characteristics. So, I am thinking that I might tend in that direction.

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    Default Re: ENTP vs INTP

    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    I don't know if anyone has discussed this before, but I think alot of confusion over whether someone is an ENTP or an INTP has to do with the reason why they have been isolated from society in some way.

    Including myself, most ENTPs are expedient people who arn't afraid to challenge social norms and the status quo; they have alot of charm and sociability when they arn't annoying the heck out of people, which could be alot or all the time. I think as a result of this, ENTPs sometimes form an inferiority complex where they believe that people do not like them and that they are not accepted. This will cause someone who would be otherwise and extravert to develope tendencies to compensate for this fact; maybe even an ENTP would even stop trying to associate with society causing them to appear quiet or introverted regardless of the fact that they would rather associate with people as an extravert. Often for this reason they become aloof and detached and be sporatic with people they like, being hot or cold at various times. This is part of the reason I think that many ENTPs test as INTP when actually ENTP fits them better, as indicated by the fact that the description of an ENTP fits me 100% where as an INTP maybe 25% even though I tested origionally as an introvert.

    On the other hand, an INTP may have no real reason to be introverted besides the fact that they just are naturally introverts. Maybe society reinforces their introversion, maybe it doesn't. It could just be who they are inside and don't really feel much for society and that suits them just fine.

    As for me, I would rather associate with society, but I don't follow societal norms and I am judged because of that, so I stay secluded sometimes to avoid conflict. I hate it, and would rather be with people. But, that is the way it is with people.
    I am an INTP and I identify with almost everything you said.

    Withdrawing from others as a way of dealing with your problems is a charcteristic of intraversion. Extraversion deals with problems by making their problem everyone's problem, because the information it perceives or judges is perceived as directly part of the objective world. Of course everyone does both. But if one repeatedly withdraw from others when under pressure that generally indicates introversion.

    INTPs do question social norms alot. They live in their own universe, kind of like INTJs. Now ENTPs (and ENTJs) also question convention alot(this is an NT thing, question and defying the system all the time), but their questioning of convention is based on what they perceive as an objective reality everyone else sees, whereas INTs see things from their own personal vision, which makes them constantly question if they will be understood by others or not.

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    You missed my point, some extraverts choose introversion over becoming social outcast ... If you knew that you were someone that was totally harmless and ment no harm to anyione, but people are constantly trying to get rid of you [send you to prison, shun you with cold treatment] over maybe a few oddities that people find strange or annoying then an extravert would tend to be more picky about who they expose their true selves too. They form false faces, become cocky and arrogant ... do things so that people would not take them totally serious as well as withdrawing at specific intervals; because if they didn't society would eventually make them become isolated anyways.

    Now with an introvert I was saying that it has probably become habitual or comfortable to be like they are or can't help it and they may not actually need to isolate themselves from people. They may not become cocky or arrogant, just shy and reserved.

    Maybe I am going out on a limb, but what I have just said could be something dealing with both xNTp personalities. But, just like you clarified, it is either everyones problem or an individual problem. It depends where a persons locus of control lies and how externally and internally it has been focused.

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    Ok your right, I guess. Im not at all saying an extrovert cant suffer from social exclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Can you point out the part of my posts that had "Se" in them? I want to know what I said that made you think ESTP.
    Sure. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.

    Some quotes:



    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    I hate scheming cowards and enjoy talking with likeminded outspoken people who stick up for themselves and like a good challenge.
    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    I hate having to repeat myself. I am 6'4" and frequently use my height to indimidate certain people in a subtle way.


    Also CS's point about intelligence being confused with intuitiveness is a good one.

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    The ESTP does not sound anything like me. I am definitely an absentminded intuitive type person, not the composed warrior that is the ESTP.
    I think that may just be a stereotype that doesn't apply. I know several "absent-minded" Se types.

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    Note my response below (it was a natural reaction).

    The above quote may not apply it just kind of strikes me that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    While this is a bit more subjective I have heard many similar comments from ESxPs but also ENxPs. The ENxPs however often do not mention it while the ESxPs always seem to.

    It's not the content but the image focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    This seems to be a recurring thing with you. You seem to get angry a lot and have outbursts of wrath heh. Correct me if I am wrong.

    A lot of stuff you said in this thread. In reference to the first post it's the focus not content again.

    The stuff you think about tends to involve aggression too.

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    A lot of your humor seems to be "physical."

    Your problems with ISFJs could just be bad supervision relations.

    But like you said you could just have an overdeveloped Se role function. Since you seem to resist the idea so much I will accept your diagnosis as you know yourself better than I do but I do like to play devil's advocate

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    My theory is that I have problems with frustration. These problems manifest in my role function because isn't that what society wants in the general workplace? Se. I think outside pressure causes me to become frustrated because it targets one of my weaker functions and causes me to lash out with it. Maybe when I move through college and truly seize my freedom will I find the opportunity to utilize my stronger functions and make a living at the same time.

    It may be worth noting that I am a very reflective and observant person, but in a more Ti way, in that I notice correlations and underlying patterns instead of hard details. I also practice meditation and am an avid fencer, which is a sport that requires awareness of surroundings, precise tactical thinking and kneejerk reactions. I think these things may contribute to a well developed Se function.

    The ESTP profile just does not fit me. My mind is so full of ideas and possibilities. For me, the idea comes first, and the drive to act second.

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    Cool I was just giving you what you asked for heh. Those things just struck me.

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    I have a new question: What about those examples cries out "Se!" to you?

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    Default Speculating....

    @ Discojoe
    Do you know for for sure if your girlfriend is ISFP? I mean the intertype relations were supposed to be the hard bone of socionics, and I guess we all kind of like to think that way at least - so that this stuff could have some potential practical benefits as well...

    I was just thinking that maybe you could ask her to (re)take the Socionics Type Assistant test, or just reconsider her type. All things considered it seems likely to me that you are ENTP with a well developed role function, but ESTP is not impossible either...

    One thing that got me thinking was that ESTPs have -Se strong willed pressure from top to bottom as their first/program function, and thus the struggle to reach the top etc. ENTPs again, according to this controversial model by Yuri Selyutin, have +Se as role function, strong willed pressure from bottom to top, and thus could, according to my interpretation of the theory, challenge established authority with more confidence than ESTPs. Just my thoughts.
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    You are projecting yourself onto your environment in those quotes in a way that is "physical" not based upon abstract interconnections that get pulled in randomly (sensory force not possibility force), but you do this in other quotes. Also it seems like you ENJOY being abstract. I never enjoy logical interrelation of various concepts I just do it. It is in my nature so to speak. I do enjoy doing those things that I am not naturally good at but have developed in myself with some degree of confidence. Do the ENTPs out there ENJOY Ne? Does anyone enjoy it? I just like it when others make use of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe
    My theory is that I have problems with frustration. These problems manifest in my role function because isn't that what society wants in the general workplace? Se. I think outside pressure causes me to become frustrated because it targets one of my weaker functions and causes me to lash out with it. Maybe when I move through college and truly seize my freedom will I find the opportunity to utilize my stronger functions and make a living at the same time.

    It may be worth noting that I am a very reflective and observant person, but in a more Ti way, in that I notice correlations and underlying patterns instead of hard details. I also practice meditation and am an avid fencer, which is a sport that requires awareness of surroundings, precise tactical thinking and kneejerk reactions. I think these things may contribute to a well developed Se function.

    The ESTP profile just does not fit me. My mind is so full of ideas and possibilities. For me, the idea comes first, and the drive to act second.

    I want everybody to know for the record that I do about the same thing as Discojoe does and I am an ENTp. In many cases I have the same thing going on in my role function as well, I get frustrated very easily, especially at work where some of my co-workers have complained and made jokes that I am too bossy. That is why in one of my earlier posts I mentioned that I could get used to using my third function.

    The reason why I do not express Se in my posts is probably because I have to sit down and think (Ti) about what I am going to type so I won’t sound stupid (Fi).

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